Deserters

[Ridickilis]

We all start playing PVP with PVE gear. PVP gear is earned. I started with PVE gear, you started out with PVE gear we all did. Have them watch a node and call out when it gets attacked. They wil start to learn, Don't treat them like scum or not worth your time.

 

Unless they're stealth classes in pve gear they should never, ever solo guard a node. It doesn't matter if they call as soon as humanly possible, they have no chance of lasting long enough to stop caps until the fastest responder gets there. If an AP opens on them with explosive probe, for instance, they'll be dead just after it goes off.

 

There seems to be some confusion here too. No one is saying you must have full pvp gear to enter a WZ, though it would be nice if one enjoys pvp that they did some pre-60, but I suppose that's asking too much. When someone say's "pve gear" they're talking about gear rated higher than 162 (don't know if 172 blues are okay or not). It's the pve raid gear that nerfs the player's expertise. Of course you'll start level 60 WZ's in pve gear if you've never done pvp before level 60, were saying put away your raid gear and wear a set of 148's/156's/162's.

[MarionHill]

Yesterday I had 7 Arena pops in a row. The highest level on my team throughout all of them was a 43. The lowest level on the enemy team was a 55. Worst part is I didn't run into anyone twice. So that was 28 different level 55s and up being put up against 28 43s and under.

 

Name me one good reason why I should of stayed in any of those matches. Not a single one of those matches that were fair. The teams I were on did not stand a chance in any of them so you can bet that when I saw how one sided the matches were I left, I pay to have fun in this game, I don't pay so I can sit there and die in 5 secs because Bioware's PVP matchmaking is bad.

[Tibult]

When you do a FP you check their gear to make sure its good, you even ask to see titles.........pvpers get stuck with any trash that enters........start doing your FPs with ANY random.

 

That is hilarious. checking titles for flashpoints? Never has happened to me. I could wear 182 blues in most FPs and do just fine. There are no real gear checks in any of them.

[Tibult]

Unless they're stealth classes in pve gear they should never, ever solo guard a node. It doesn't matter if they call as soon as humanly possible, they have no chance of lasting long enough to stop caps until the fastest responder gets there. If an AP opens on them with explosive probe, for instance, they'll be dead just after it goes off.

 

There seems to be some confusion here too. No one is saying you must have full pvp gear to enter a WZ, though it would be nice if one enjoys pvp that they did some pre-60, but I suppose that's asking too much. When someone say's "pve gear" they're talking about gear rated higher than 162 (don't know if 172 blues are okay or not). It's the pve raid gear that nerfs the player's expertise. Of course you'll start level 60 WZ's in pve gear if you've never done pvp before level 60, were saying put away your raid gear and wear a set of 148's/156's/162's.

 

Pre 3.0? I was in 186s and had 1k expertise. I slowly worked through and got the comms for gear. It is a grind. But, you have to start somewhere.

[Gorto]

As it stands now people can join a game, don't like the way things look and quit and instantly reque. They can do this however many times they want. Which is ridiculous. Some times the team is not even that bad, even end up turning around and winning.

 

Some people seem that they only want to play when the game is stack entirely in there favor.

 

15 min lockout is not that bad and would make people a hell of a lot more selective in the times they want to drop from the game.

[Ridickilis]

Pre 3.0? I was in 186s and had 1k expertise. I slowly worked through and got the comms for gear. It is a grind. But, you have to start somewhere.

 

Yes, and that was exactly the problem, I mean there is a sticky at the top of this forum detailing which pve rated items were okay and what wasn't. You literally had half the dps and half the defense as someone with 2k expertise. What you should have done was buy the 148's off the gtn and loaded out a second set of gear that you only wear in pvp. Not only would you have helped your team better but, more importantly, you would have had a better time not getting blown in in seconds. Those 13k hidden strikes would have hit you for 7-8k on pvp or correctly bolstered pve gear. Those 9k lacerates would have been 5k, etc. and so on.

 

Would you think it selfish of me to queue up for pve group finder in sub-rated gear for HM/NiM (25K health, 2k mainstat etc) hoping, no expecting, the other 7-15 to carry me through? What kind of words would I see in group chat before I got vote kicked? It's the same exact thing here. Those level 53 blue items/mods/implants/etc were selling for 10k each, more than a reasonable a price for your starter pvp gear. There is no excuse to "wing it" in pvp with raid gear until you get a full set of pvp gear.

 

That's the root of the anger. It's not that someone wants to try out pvp for the first time or that they don't have any pvp gear yet. It's when told please don't wear your raid gear and they still show up to the next WZ with the same raid gear. You may as well be telling the rest of the group to go **** themselves.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Ridickilis

[fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg]

Think about the other 7 people in the warzone. That's the point of the proposed lockout, to prevent people from griefing the SEVEN other people for ONE persons benefit.

 

I'm not saying you should be forced to play the warzone you don't enjoy. You can still leave, but just take a 15 minute lockout because you are letting your team down.

 

Really, sometimes I quit because the team is letting me down. I know that sounds a little selfish but do you really think I will want to waste my time in a WZ where everyone on your team is incompetent and won't even read the damn chat when I'm typing in kind suggestions that would help the team win, meanwhile while they are running amuck leaving objectives unguarded?

[Defecter]

Why? Because your queueing up for random bgs. Sometimes getting a map that you don't care for is part of the experience. And if you can't sit through a 15 minute match with other players. You deserve to get that penalty.

That argument would make sense if we had the choice to queue for random BGs or specific BGs (or a specific type). But we don't. Instead I am forced into forms of PvP I don't like (arenas).

 

If you guys are getting stomped the match will last a whole lot shorter. And for those that dodge arenas its a 2 round Warzone that lasts at most 5 minutes.

Yes, it might 'just' be 5 minutes. But it's five minutes of, to me, boring gameplay. I won't even be able to give it my all because I just don't like it. If anything, my team should be glad I leave, because I'm more liable to get them killed simply because I don't care about solo q arenas one single bit.

 

You guys act as if you get some kind of entitlement to dodge a warzone because you pay for the game. Well boy do I have news for you. Other people pay for this game as well. And you're not entitled to degrade the playing experience of others because you pay for the game.

Oh the hilarity and irony of this argument. You're calling people entitled by making the argument that you're entitled to a fun game. Really?

 

'Entitlement'; The catch phrase of the year that every idiot uses, but rarely understands.

 

And to combat the afk worries that people have. If you guys are really that spiteful to sit around and not play a wz that you avoid the desearter system by periodically moving around. Make this a reportable and bannable offense. Because when you queue for a warzone its an expectation that you're gonna play for whatever 15 mins that it is.

So, ban people for not participating in content they do not wish to do while actually being forced into it? You're truly hilarious.

 

Again, a simple fix would be give the players a choice for which (type) of battleground they want to play. That's when you can start handing out debuffs. Handing out debuffs while not giving the player a choice in the matter is beyond retarded.

 

If you had the choice to either queue for random (for faster queue pop times for example) or specific BGs and you choose random and then leave, it's a whole different ballgame. But as long as you don't have a choice between two VERY distinct types of gameplay, it's just retarded to enforce such measures.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

So basically, you gear check people to determine if they can carry you. If not, you leave. Got it.

 

Actually no.

 

Initially I inspect their gear, sure, some people don't have a full set at max lvl, for whatever reason, then I inspect their achievements, when I see countless sub manhunters and people with <1000 games, my interest wanes massively as these people are generally clueless, I will not waste my time . I have no interest in teaching people anymore,

Edited January 3, 2015 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Plicitous]

I used to think this way as well.. a ban of some sort. However, this allows people to leave when they dont want to stay and we get backfilled. If they get a ban.. they will remain afk and wont leave.

Its better for them to be able to leave. How many times have you seen someone leave the moment the other team gets 2 nodes.. and you get backfilled and win.

 

It happens all the time because the core of most terrible matches is bad matchups and someone leaving is a great way to mix it up. Anyone who plays a lot of PVP has seen a game instantly turn when a healer comes or goes or the balance shifts when a bad dps is replaced by a good one. Or a tank arrives who can keep a lone healer alive. Even simple things like someone joins who can actually call early. That stuff all matters.

 

Plus, I'd rather someone leave than spend 5 minutes complaining. Less talk, more capping and killing.

 

As experienced PvPers we tend to make the mistake that everyone is as experienced as us. Often times the best way to turn a bad warzone is to lead by example. Can't hold a node because no one is calling? Start defending and call early. Show people how it's done and they'll catch on. When you first start it's hard to take a beating just to get the call out. You want to defend yourself. It takes a lot of warzones before you realize it's better to die and get people moving than to live a little while longer and lose the node anyway when a 2nd stealth appears and destroys you.

 

Sometimes you just have to break the tunnel vision that sets in and start telling people what to do too. So and so, come with me. You two stay here please. Abandon west and help mid, etc.

 

That said, I still leave in certain circumstances. As a DPS I can't stand it if I can't kill anyone. Too much healing blows. Those matches where you do a million in damage with 3 kills are depressing.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Plicitous

[Defecter]

As experienced PvPers we tend to make the mistake that everyone is as experienced as us. Often times the best way to turn a bad warzone is to lead by example.

You, my good sir, deserve a medal for saying this.

[HanSollo]

Deserters are the filth of the galaxy and something needs to be done.

 

When they choose to leave the WZ a pop up should appear saying:

 

"If you choose to continue leaving this Warzone know that this will register as a loss and result in a 30 minute ban from entering another Warzone again. Furthermore leaving this Warzone will result in a loss of Valor the equivalent of a gain of valor for a win.".

 

Today I had to join three losses in progress out of four played warzones. Not only is it annoying but I have to take responsibility for filthy deserters failures.

 

That's weird when I join a losing WZ my team usually wins cause I am a boss and i have a strong back

[Rilok_Singz]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FopVW9QD.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Fgallery%2FopVW9QD&h=475&w=625&tbnid=9nC-Bu9zDROrFM%3A&zoom=1&docid=CYdn7YP5lpl6CM&ei=pE6oVPG****UoASklIKwBQ&tbm=isch&ved=0CBoQMygSMBI4ZA&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=270&page=3&start=87&ndsp=53

[Glower]

LOL, this thread again! Just let them GO! So i can join and save your warzone. Well, maybe...

 

You can not force them to play if they don't want to stay, in the best case they will camp nodes!

[Saikochoro]

Lol at the people that say the person who is leaving is griefing the other teammates. Almost always it is the other way around. How about a novare coast I just did where 4 sorcerers on my team sat in between objectives. They didn't even sit on our node. They didn't attack anyone who didn't come to them. They just sat there. The entire match. End of match not one of them had over 40k damage. Not one of them had over 15k healing. And all of them had close to zero objectives. Those four people were griefing me. This kind of crap happens all the time. How about when I'm guarding a node and see someone incoming. I say "1 inc snow" immediately when I see them. Then I see two more coming. "3 inc snow help now pls". Another one comes. "4 snow help". Meanwhile I am sleep darting them over and over. Attacking them and going back into stealth. Holding them off for close to a minute. Plenty of time for people to come help. "4 snow". Meanwhile grass got capped by enemy because the entire team is derping in mid try to take the 3rd node. I finally succumb because I cant 1v4 and I die and they cap. Then the idiots in mid have the audacity to yell in cap "WHY NO CALL FOR SNOW! W T F! If you cant guard snow don't guard re tard". Yeah those people are griefing me and I'm not sticking with that team. To say im griefing them is hilarious. If people werent so bad people wouldn't leave. I have no problem with being outplayed. I do have a problem with teams as described above and I will not stay with them.

 

TL;DR: As soon as people stop being bads. I'm not talking about new players. I'm talking about bads. There is a major difference. As soon as a vote kick system actually works. As soon as we can choose what maps we want to queue for. Then the complaint about people leaving might have a small bit of legitimacy. Even then I would never ever agree to a debuff. Only in ranked.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Saikochoro

[Anyakaschala]

Deserters are the filth of the galaxy and something needs to be done.

 

When they choose to leave the WZ a pop up should appear saying:

 

"If you choose to continue leaving this Warzone know that this will register as a loss and result in a 30 minute ban from entering another Warzone again. Furthermore leaving this Warzone will result in a loss of Valor the equivalent of a gain of valor for a win.".

 

Today I had to join three losses in progress out of four played warzones. Not only is it annoying but I have to take responsibility for filthy deserters failures.

 

here's the problem with a deserter debuff. Forcing someone to stay. All they will do is afk til it's over. Granted, it's not exactly what you're going with, but it's a big part of the reason. You force them to stay, they'll just camp a node or go hide in a corner, all the while spamming how bad people are and how bad they suck and that they should never enter a warzone ever again, even though they fail to see the irony of them not doing a damn thing.

 

The way I see entering wz's after they've started is the same as entering it, with the obvious caveats. what's the score? Hell, it is possible to enter a winning wz, because as suggested, someone's house was on fire and they needed to leave. If it's close or still a chance, I'll try to cap a node and turn the tide if we're losing. If try and fail a couple of times and the wz' is a lost cause, it's just time to pack it in and camp a node. Either way, entering a wz is quick comms towards your daily or weekly.

 

Add that if you are forced to continue a wz, it kills someone's time. A novarre coast that takes 15mins for a team to cap 2 nodes? I've been in one, and frankly, there are times that I just don't have the time for that. If you force people to stay, then how do you get out of that bad pug queue. Do you stay the entire time, and then go afk for 15mins afterwards? Thats just bad business.

 

Also, if you don't like being queued and entering a losing pug match, then maybe....get your own group and as thus you won't get back into one of those bad pugs.

[Anyakaschala]

They only intentionally leave when you suck. Don't fret you can do something about it, get better!

 

nah, most rage quitters leave once the 1st node is capped and that's before you even have a chance to learn the flow.

 

ie civ war, 7 go mid, 1 goes to cap snow. snow gets ganked by 4 stealthies before they cap, and someone shouts about someone not making a call even though it was 4v1 and no chance really to call or stop it, but someone quickly rages quits, even though 3 secs later, you have mid and grass. Just the rage quitter doesn't see it.

 

Or they rage quit because as soon as they run mid, 4 juggs leap on him and take him down in .5 secs and he rages about not getting healed. Other team can simply be an overpowered team for a reg. Not necessarly because you suck, but in the grand scheme, the other team (not a pug) is just better.

[Culbrelai]

Not being able to choose what PvP you want to play is silly.

 

Some people absolutely hate Huttball.

 

Others absolutely despise Arenas.

 

Your stuck with them if you roll them in the queue.

 

Some people hate Assault on Tython.

 

Others hate Legacy of the Rakata.

 

You are -not- stuck with either. You can choose.

 

Lately I've just been thinking that PvP in an MMO is a ridiculous concept in itself, considering it is basically a rock (tank) paper (healer) scissors (DPS) match. It is extremely unlikely you will win a 1v4 in PvP in an MMO. Any other genre, FPS, strategy, etc., you may have a chance.