Would Marauders be to powerful if Cloak of Pain also made you immune to roots?

[Trevor_the_Bruce]

I keep thinking that maybe Cloak of Pain should grant something like this to make it so that we can get into the action a lot quicker. I've been leveling up a Marauder right now and sorcs/sages immobilizing me for 5 seconds after force wave is almost equaling a death sentence. But maybe if the class got immunity to roots during Cloak of Pain they'd be to powerful? since I'm new to the class, I'm not sure if they have been given something like this before and it was deemed to OP, but I think it'd be a good idea to help against all the other classes that seem to have easily accessible immunities to movement impairing effects, whereas Marauders have very few, and the ones that they do have are on long cooldowns.

[Vodrin]

I keep thinking that maybe Cloak of Pain should grant something like this to make it so that we can get into the action a lot quicker. I've been leveling up a Marauder right now and sorcs/sages immobilizing me for 5 seconds after force wave is almost equaling a death sentence. But maybe if the class got immunity to roots during Cloak of Pain they'd be to powerful? since I'm new to the class, I'm not sure if they have been given something like this before and it was deemed to OP, but I think it'd be a good idea to help against all the other classes that seem to have easily accessible immunities to movement impairing effects, whereas Marauders have very few, and the ones that they do have are on long cooldowns.

 

Well the thing that most who play this class would agree on is that it needs another tool or two for dealing with roots and snares. There are multiple ways of doing this though. From what I have seen the class does quite well at staying on target if you use all your centering/fury stacks for predation/trans. Problem is that berserk/zen is required to match the damage output of most other DPS classes. So we either need another tool for dealing with roots and snares that is independent of fury/centering, or we need a way to build it fast enough to use berserk and predation together more frequently. A massively reduced cooldown on inspiration would be another possible way to accomplish this.

[Ridickilis]

Well the thing that most who play this class would agree on is that it needs another tool or two for dealing with roots and snares. There are multiple ways of doing this though. From what I have seen the class does quite well at staying on target if you use all your centering/fury stacks for predation/trans. Problem is that berserk/zen is required to match the damage output of most other DPS classes. So we either need another tool for dealing with roots and snares that is independent of fury/centering, or we need a way to build it fast enough to use berserk and predation together more frequently. A massively reduced cooldown on inspiration would be another possible way to accomplish this.

 

To be honest I'd okay with that (trading dps for root breaking/immunity) if prediction was actually an immunity.

 

But no to cloak of pain suggestion in the OP (or yes is my answer to the thread title). It has a max uptime of 30 seconds (and a min of 10 seconds with a skillful utility). That would be potentially three times longer immunity than any other class.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

To be honest I'd okay with that (trading dps for root breaking/immunity) if prediction was actually an immunity.

 

But no to cloak of pain suggestion in the OP (or yes is my answer to the thread title). It has a max uptime of 30 seconds (and a min of 10 seconds with a skillful utility). That would be potentially three times longer immunity than any other class.

 

What class might that be? Powertechs have that AND 75% move speed on a 25s CD with Hydro Overrides, and that isnt considered OP. So, this wouldnt be a OP idea at all... Considering PT's and Mara's are both Melee DPS. Hell, if it was too OP throw it into a Utility...

[Evanouss]

PT's aren't only melee dps they are mid and long range, it's ridiculous and then they also have root slow immunity..while maras, full time melee only have 0 immunity. Seriously, it's just absurd. Not to mention PT/VG atm have the best burst in the game with 7 missle burst from hell. It's getting to be comical for sents/maras now... Edited January 2, 2015 by Evanouss

[calamatiesend]

I think it might be worth looking into, we do need something that will help us stay on target that does not take away from our dps(pred vs berzerk). I honestly still think we should get a form of unstoppable on leaps similar to vengeance jugs. No DR but some form of root/kb/cc immunities after a leap for 4 seconds would be helpful.

[Ridickilis]

What class might that be? Powertechs have that AND 75% move speed on a 25s CD with Hydro Overrides, and that isnt considered OP.

 

Okay they get 20 seconds of immunity every 50secs. What you're asking for is 30 seconds of immunity every 60 seconds with a 20% DR built in AND it does damage AND builds rage if talented.

 

I'm not suggesting it isn't ridiculous that this class doesn't have a root/snare immunity.

 

I'm saying you're looking at the wrong skill to use for this buff. I think it would be overpowered to put on a DCD that also gives damage reduction and can last up to 30 seconds.

 

If they put it on CoP I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the CD to 2:00 or took away the "refreshes on damage" bit and perhaps even 10% of the DR. No thank you.

 

I think Prediction is the best one that makes the most sense.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Ridickilis

[waterboytkd]

I think the better move is to take Transcendence/Predation off the Centering/Fury mechanic and give it an appropriate cooldown (1 minute if it stays a raid buff, lower if it becomes a personal buff). Then bump Fleetfooted/Unbound to a lower tier, probably, or combine it with Expunging Camoflauge. That would give Sents/Maras access to 2 root/slow breakers as well as a good speed boost.

 

In the past, that was what Combat/Carnage had when they ignored Zen/Berserk, and staying on target was very doable.

 

EDIT: Oh, and change Leg Slash/Crippling Slash into Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw, and change Displacement so that it reads "Increases the range of Obfuscate by 6m, and when you hit a target with Crippling Throw/Deadly Throw, the target is immobilized for 3 seconds." That would be enough stay-on-target for Sents/Maras to compete.

Edited January 2, 2015 by waterboytkd

[HanSollo]

Your all wrong here is what they are gonna do

 

Remove Perdition/Transcendence

 

They will add Grounded by the Force/Anchored Rage

 

Range: 4m

 

Channel Time: 5 seconds

 

Description: Target is rooted for the duration, and at the end of the channel you lose 75% of your hp

 

Problem solved.

[Moosestick]

Sad that so many are thinking that giving up back to back speed is a good thing.

 

For those that think immunity tied to cloak of pain is overpowered, look at some of the other melee classes abilities.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Moosestick

[Atlanis]

Well I would rather say:

 

Talent for all Sents:

Dignified Warrior:

Sentinels have endured years of hardships due to their weak connection to the force. Intensive Training lead to a supperior battleoverview. Sentinels are immune to all movementimpairing effects. (Not Stuns, Slees, Knockdowns)

 

Who thinks with is overpowered, well we got no selfheal, no DMG, Reflecteverything, unstoppablerunning 360Degree Shot stuff like ALL OTHER CLASSES;-)

[Vodrin]

Well I would rather say:

 

Talent for all Sents:

Dignified Warrior:

Sentinels have endured years of hardships due to their weak connection to the force. Intensive Training lead to a supperior battleoverview. Sentinels are immune to all movementimpairing effects. (Not Stuns, Slees, Knockdowns)

 

Who thinks with is overpowered, well we got no selfheal, no DMG, Reflecteverything, unstoppablerunning 360Degree Shot stuff like ALL OTHER CLASSES;-)

 

Nice ridiculous overbuff. As was previously stated, taking predation/trans off of fury stats would not be a flat buff as you would lose the ability to use it back to back, and would probably have it available less often overall. Would probably be a better buff overall if it were more possible to get a full 30 stacks more often.

 

Also, the only way than predation/trans could grant root/snare immunity is if it granted it only to the sentinel/marauder and not his team. I'd even give out the buff to defense in return for the immunity. I also think that sents should get a full purge. Probably best if it were tied to undying/GBTF as the dev's would probably feel that force cammo has too short a cooldown to get a purge attached to it, but undying would need to be reworked to make this as beneficial as it should be. In any case, there are lots of reasonable ways to buff the class without going over the top as the poster I quoted suggested.

[Atlanis]

You have been trolled, oh I can be reasonable I just wanted to go over the top since somebody in a post before went over the top in the nerf direction:cool:

 

You know, I don´t give a **** about what Bioware thinks anymore. If 3.1. doesn´t bring me back to speed I am switching to that Guardian over there. I want a Melee with a Lightsaber. They should stop beeing "careful" about Sents only because the most skilled players used to play this class and wreak havoc on the poor Devs when they went on a live server

 

Just buff us, WE DESERVE IT.

 

Don´t be reasonable on Classforums, Sages got ridicule buffs for beeing not reasonable:rolleyes:

[calamatiesend]

Still think we could get some form of unstoppable..... Maybe it would be too OP but make it 5 seconds of cc immunity after leaps(No DR like jugs get) and that would go a long way.

 

This or add something in for each spec, bleeds have a chance to grant blood lust(names are examples) makes sent/mara immune to all movement impairments for 4 seconds can only trigger once every 15 seconds

 

Ataru hits have a chance to proc, *insert name* makes mara/sent immune to all movement impairments for 4 seconds, can only trigger once every 15 sec

 

Fury, at full stacks of Koan dmg buff mara/sent gets movement immunity for 4 seconds can only trigger once every 15 sec

 

Something like this would work well too. Still need to fix DCDs so we are not painfully squishy under focus and we will be on our way to being balanced.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Okay they get 20 seconds of immunity every 25secs. What you're asking for is 30 seconds of immunity every ~45 seconds with a 20% DR built in AND it does damage AND builds rage if talented.

 

I'm not suggesting it isn't ridiculous that this class doesn't have a root/snare immunity.

 

I'm saying you're looking at the wrong skill to use for this buff. I think it would be overpowered to put on a DCD that also gives damage reduction and can last up to 30 seconds.

 

If they put it on CoP I wouldn't be surprised if they increased the CD to 2:00 or took away the "refreshes on damage" bit and perhaps even 10% of the DR. No thank you.

 

I think Prediction is the best one that makes the most sense.

 

Fixed the time numbers for the CD's on CoP and HO. HO is not on a 50s CD... it's on a 25s CD for any smart PT who takes the 5s CD reduction. and CoP can be reduced by using a few of our attacks (I always take that talent)

[Ridickilis]

Fixed the time numbers for the CD's on CoP and HO. HO is not on a 50s CD... it's on a 25s CD for any smart PT who takes the 5s CD reduction. and CoP can be reduced by using a few of our attacks (I always take that talent)

 

No actually we're both wrong, though I was closer than you in your edit of my quote (20 seconds every 25 seconds)

 

Those "20 seconds of immunity every 50 seconds" was accounting for all the utilities and 2 uses of it. I thought it was 10 seconds of up-time per use with the utilities but it's actually 12 (8+4 utility) So no, it's 24 seconds every 50 seconds fully talented (12 seconds every 25s).

Edited January 3, 2015 by Ridickilis

[cjwestlake]

Well the thing that most who play this class would agree on is that it needs another tool or two for dealing with roots and snares. There are multiple ways of doing this though. From what I have seen the class does quite well at staying on target if you use all your centering/fury stacks for predation/trans. Problem is that berserk/zen is required to match the damage output of most other DPS classes. So we either need another tool for dealing with roots and snares that is independent of fury/centering, or we need a way to build it fast enough to use berserk and predation together more frequently. A massively reduced cooldown on inspiration would be another possible way to accomplish this.

 

I agree, however, gbtf should also be given a buff and there are rotations that mitigate the loss of damage from zen. Predation also helps to stay on target and increase damage you would normally not acquire. In fury you have predation, 2 leaps, force stasis and fore exhaustion to stay on target. Basicly we could use a couple more tools to level the playing field. I'm enjoying the new trans/fury build immensely!!

Edited January 3, 2015 by cjwestlake