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I'm not too sure I understand why everyone says Marauders suck in PvP

LtBombshell

By LtBombshell
in Sentinel / Marauder

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LtBombshell

LtBombshell

Posted
Posted (edited)

Note: I have not yet played a marauder in PvP post 3.0

 

I mean, we have Predation, Cloak of Pain, Force Camouflage, Saber Ward, Undying Rage, in addition to Obfuscate, Force Choke AND Intimidating Roar. This is without even mentioning PvP medpacs and stims.

 

Compare this to a Commando, who has Reactive Shield and Adrenaline rush, a knockback, a stun, and a snare. 8 defensive cooldowns/defensive utilities versus 5.

 

So my question being, if Marauders have 8 DCDs/utilities without even counting PvP medpacs and stims, how do they suddenly suck so much compared to pre 3.0? Is there some huge nerf their DCDs got that I'm not aware of?

Edited by LtBombshell
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Atlanis

Atlanis

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He is an altoholic. Know need to listen to people who don´t understand the root of the problem.

 

He hasn´t noticed that many majour Sent players switched classes. Why would KBN or Emperor Norton, who have stayed with the class for a very long time providing great guys for new players, switch from their Sent/Mara? Why would a lot of people switch from their Sents if the Class was fine?

 

I did some matches after 3.0 only 100 or so, I haven´t touched PvP with my Sent since and I won´t until Bioware brings us up to speed again. Be it a nerf for all other ACs or a SIGNIFICANT Buff to our survivability WITHOUT nerfing something. I don´t know what your problem is, but I know what the Combat teams problem is. They just look at relative percentages, but with 3.0 even those should speak in favour of significantly buffing Sents. Now even weathered Veterans are not able to compete. I was happy reaching 2nd place in the random PuG 8mann Match before 3.0 concerning the DPS. Now it is just not possible, even with a pockethealer zero deaths and zerging like hell. A Sent can´t reach them by far.

 

Stop arguing Sents/Maras are fine. Bioware lies to us since 1.0. or rather since the guy who developped the AC left. Could you Combatteam people swallow your pride and bring us up to speed again?

 

Yeah we are fine in PvE, just fine, just good enough to be taken in. Well if you are a weathered veteran who knows how to play all 3 Specs and which to use on which boss and how to get into a 10% range of the other DPS. From our "Noobs" none have stayed with the Sent. Yeah my guild is out of the picture with 5 Sents taking part in Raids on a regular basis, but two are in the carefree fun group and the other 3 are to be called weathered Veterans. We struggle keeping up this snotting 12 year olds how spam a 3 Key rotation on some random AC. Srry, either reward us for coping with the most complicated DPS Class in game our you will loose a lot customers. We can only DPS, we can´t switch to Tank or Heal or have the favour of Ranged DPS when getting nerfed into the grave.

 

Talk to us, you talked to the other classes on the PTS not to Sents. Tell us what I am doing wrong, how about giving us a guid what we should do different? Explanation and so forth.

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rosikquit

rosikquit

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In short, dps is sustained, but not as high as dps of other classes, which in addition also have a better survivability. Currently it can be a decent DPS in PVE, but because of poor mobility, vulnerability to any kind of stun and snare, the sentinel/marauder class is almost completely useless in PVP, even with a good healer fixed on his shoulders.
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LordDarthRaiden

LordDarthRaiden

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Note: I have not yet played a marauder in PvP post 3.0

 

I mean, we have Predation, Cloak of Pain, Force Camouflage, Saber Ward, Undying Rage, in addition to Obfuscate, Force Choke AND Intimidating Roar. This is without even mentioning PvP medpacs and stims.

 

Compare this to a Commando, who has Reactive Shield and Adrenaline rush, a knockback, a stun, and a snare. 8 defensive cooldowns/defensive utilities versus 5.

 

So my question being, if Marauders have 8 DCDs/utilities without even counting PvP medpacs and stims, how do they suddenly suck so much compared to pre 3.0? Is there some huge nerf their DCDs got that I'm not aware of?

 

Looks like you play only against noobs, have you play just one game against DOT?

You are not able to get in fight range, sure in nbg you will not be main target and most ppl play for fun but in RBG you have no chance now in 3.0. You talking about some great skills from Maro, dude all other have become same like Maro just better, you are just a noob who dont play RBG or play only against noobs. Sorry but i have never read so stupid thread like yours.

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HanSollo

HanSollo

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Posted
Note: I have not yet played a marauder in PvP post 3.0

 

I mean, we have Predation, Cloak of Pain, Force Camouflage, Saber Ward, Undying Rage, in addition to Obfuscate, Force Choke AND Intimidating Roar. This is without even mentioning PvP medpacs and stims.

 

Compare this to a Commando, who has Reactive Shield and Adrenaline rush, a knockback, a stun, and a snare. 8 defensive cooldowns/defensive utilities versus 5.

 

So my question being, if Marauders have 8 DCDs/utilities without even counting PvP medpacs and stims, how do they suddenly suck so much compared to pre 3.0? Is there some huge nerf their DCDs got that I'm not aware of?

 

The short version is Sents did the most damage and had the least survivability pre 3.0. In 3.0 they increased survivability for every one (which we received the least amount due to having the lowest survivability) and they nerfed the damage for classes that were "parsing higher then they wanted" which we suffered the most from cause we had the most damage, this also affected our survivability since part of it was predicated on the fact that we could quickly remove some damage we would receive otherwise.

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Ramtar

Ramtar

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Posted (edited)

some of my reasons:

 

* all the other MDPS ACs can wear heavy armor (Guardian/Juggernaut/Vanguard/PowerTech) or increase armor rating to heavy (Assassin/Shadow). While Marauder/Sentinel can not increase medium armor rating on a permanent basis to match heavy armor rating. Why should Mercenary/Commando wear heavy armor as RDPS and Sentinel/Marauder be stuck in medium armor as MDPS?

 

* DCDs are too long for PvP

 

* OH damage is crap and it should be equal to MH damage for all discplines due to the nature of a lightsaber

 

* combinations beyond Master Strike are null and void due to GCD

 

* lack of a single target hard stun and knockback

Edited by Ramtar
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BDragonSith

BDragonSith

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I started trying out PvP the other and now I see where some of you are coming from, but I wouldn't say that its completely destroyed. I don't have any kind of PvP anything on my Carnage Marauder and I still managed to get some kills in. Did a team death match too. 3 Marauders and healer versus a team of ranged damage dealers. We won by a landslide. So either some people are just awful at PvP, I'm better than I thought, or the class isn't too bad.

 

(LOL do I dare say something like L2P? nah. that's mean.)

 

EDIT: One major flaw, though, is that Marauders have no range whatsoever. You are quite reliant on your team in that aspect, and yes, stuns suck.

Edited by BDragonSith
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HanSollo

HanSollo

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some of my reasons:

 

* all the other MDPS ACs can wear heavy armor (Guardian/Juggernaut/Vanguard/PowerTech) or increase armor rating to heavy (Assassin/Shadow). While Marauder/Sentinel can not increase medium armor rating on a permanent basis to match heavy armor rating. Why should Mercenary/Commando wear heavy armor as RDPS and Sentinel/Marauder be stuck in medium armor as MDPS?

 

* DCDs are too long for PvP

 

* OH damage is crap and it should be equal to MH damage for all discplines due to the nature of a lightsaber

 

* combinations beyond Master Strike are null and void due to GCD

 

* lack of a single target hard stun and knockback

 

So I have a question once you leap to the target at what point are you going to use a knock back that will likely do little to no damage not kill the target and leave you in a worse position. Also, we do have a hard stun its called Force Stasis.

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ishbindeinvater

ishbindeinvater

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So I have a question once you leap to the target at what point are you going to use a knock back that will likely do little to no damage not kill the target and leave you in a worse position. Also, we do have a hard stun its called Force Stasis.

 

A KB is not what we need, we have enough DCDs, it's just that our "elite" DCD is the worst in the game and our "great" lv 51 skill got nerfed and isn't worth anything (compare that to barrier, rolls, cannons, teleport, saber reflect, electro net).

 

What we need is a worthwhile UR and probably an utility which makes us immune to movement impairing skills while they last (would be already a great improvement when predation makes you immune not just cleanse it)

 

Nothing else IMO.

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Ramtar

Ramtar

Posted
Posted (edited)
So I have a question once you leap to the target at what point are you going to use a knock back that will likely do little to no damage not kill the target and leave you in a worse position. Also, we do have a hard stun its called Force Stasis.

 

Force Stasis is a channel stun, not an instant hard stun.

 

Guess you don't think ahead do you? You want to strip a tank from guarding a healer, knock the tank back. You want to move the healer toward your teammates? Stun the tank and knock back the healer towards your teammates for an easy kill.

Edited by Ramtar
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SlimGenre

SlimGenre

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Posted

as someone who has a sentinel collecting dust, I can say from an outsiders perspective the thing you are most missing is movement. There is so much root/stun available to all classes now it's just too easy to get away from a sentinel, dot em up and then just go on to the next target. It's not that the class has been nerfed, it's that other classes, especially ranged have been utility buffed to deal with them easily. The one AC that relies ENTIRELY on being within melee range has the hardest time getting into melee range (even jug/gaurd has an easier time closing the gap with their throw to leap combo). This is the imbalance more than anything else imho.

 

On the other hand, if for nothing else than the speed buff (predation??) I love seeing sent/mara's in my 4v4's and 8v8's... however, it's unfair for the rest of us to expect you to continue to play the class just so I can have a speed buff regularly... I miss those root and 17k crit smashes that were pre 3.0, it's just too easy to avoid them now. Pre 3.0 if you saw a pack of 3 jug/mara's coming at you, you had no choice but to bail, or pop your CD's because they could pump out so much damage while you're rooted, you're globaled. Now it's just a mild inconvenience, too easy to get away from it.

 

Everyone is complaining about how underpowered their class are, imho sent/mara is the most gimped in pvp these days. Will leave mine on the shelf for a while longer.

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Ramtar

Ramtar

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Force Stasis got turned into an instant hard stun in 3.0

 

better recheck it. I'm seeing a 1.49 second channel requirement when I mouse over the ability: which isn't an instant hard stun. For Combat it might an instant stun but for Watchman/Concentration it's still channel.

Edited by Ramtar
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Vodrin

Vodrin

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I wouldn't say they suck, its just that a lot of other specs/classes are stronger and easier to do well with that makes sents/maras harder to do well with.

 

This ^^^^^^^^

 

Mara/sent is not bad until you end up matched with a good player on a hatred sin, or a DPS jug, or a madness sorc. There are other examples as well, but the sin particularly is so good right now that you will not feel effective compared to these other classes.

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DarkNecroCrusher

DarkNecroCrusher

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better recheck it. I'm seeing a 1.49 second channel requirement when I mouse over the ability: which isn't an instant hard stun. For Combat it might an instant stun but for Watchman/Concentration it's still channel.

 

Just try it before talking and beeing the only one saying it's not a hard stun.

 

There is what you read, and what it is when you use it.

 

Yes, there is a 1.5 seconds channel but the stun starts at the use of the skill.

 

The stun lasts for 4 seconds in total.

 

Use of the skill (stun applied) 1.5 seconds channel (still stun and you can move during the channelling) 2.5 seconds of stun left.

 

This is a hard stun.

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Ramtar

Ramtar

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Just try it before talking and beeing the only one saying it's not a hard stun.

 

There is what you read, and what it is when you use it.

 

Yes, there is a 1.5 seconds channel but the stun starts at the use of the skill.

 

The stun lasts for 4 seconds in total.

 

Use of the skill (stun applied) 1.5 seconds channel (still stun and you can move during the channelling) 2.5 seconds of stun left.

 

This is a hard stun.

 

Btw the word is being, not beeing. It should be straight up instant period!

Edited by Ramtar
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Ailaria

Ailaria

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Posted (edited)

You can cancel the channel without losing the stun and you can move while channeling, so it's effectively an instant. As I've understood it from what Musco said, the only reason it's still a channel is so the animation would play properly; basically, the channel is purely cosmetic.

 

Anyone who says it's not an instant has just completely misunderstood how it works.

Edited by Ailaria
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