FlyinSpaghetti Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It totally is. I would think the proper way to tune it for 16 man would be to have two pairs of load lifters spawn and aggro to the third and fourth highest threat non-tank targets. That being said, this is what we have now so this is what we have to work through. I'll admit the lag doesn't help but I enjoy the challenge. Beating the boss against all (seemingly impossible) odds is what we work for isn't it? Isn't that what we as progression raiders want? And as for SM, We downed SM 16man first week in the old 55 gear. there's no reason why anyone else can't, especially as time progresses and people get 60 gear. There has been a great deal of people streaming this tier of content and I have no doubt BW is watching. But, until they come out and say 3 load lifter damage was not intended and they plan to change it, go on the premise that it's intentional. 16 man has suffered tuning issues for a long time and we've always been able to down it. Let's not start using this as an excuse now. Good job to those who have killed it and good luck to those who are going for kills this week. So it's intentional that each loader in the 16 man story mode raid destined for group finder hits just as hard as one in 8 man hard mode and includes an extra loader on top? Since when is a mechanic in 8 man HM supposed to be easier than the equivalent in 16 man SM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Isn't that what we as progression raiders want? Story mode is story mode is story mode, especially in group finder context. That means it should be doable in reasonable amount of time (less than 3 hours) by group of complete strangers without voice chat and only "decent" level of skill. Progression raiders like you can bask in their excellence and making progress in HMs and being proud about 1-shooting this boss first week in 55 gear. That's all good but not when talking SM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki_ Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Perfect setup is to once again just stack gunslingers as much as you can and roll into them as they reach you so you take 0 dmg. When they go onto healer just throw diversion on the targeted healer 1-2 of them will miss commando healers can even take 3 just fine with re-active shield up. You could even have a vanguard dps firing its aoe taunt threat dump at them with sonic re-bounders spec which should reflect one of the 3 carts. Sentinels can guarded by the force it .. etc there are a million way to deal with it. The only time it is risky is when you get 40k barrel toss and 3 x 20k carts at the same time. There is however a bug with fixer droids at HM Torque attaching to healers, It has a work around and some people have figured out the issue and how to get around it and are keeping it quiet. No doubt bio-ware wont even notice this for like the next 3-4 weeks so many guilds will be stuck at him waiting for a patch to fix it. Edited December 16, 2014 by Loki_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 It's a bug on Torque, nothing else, that makes it attatch to healers and we know what triggers it (and we have reported it ingame). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namesaretough Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 The bug is the front left console evades periodically. If that's happening when the droid is targeting it, it'll leave it and go to a healer. The workaround is to either wait to see it evade and then repair, try to repair it without watching for the evade and hope you get lucky, or /stuck when he destroys that console early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) The bug is the front left console evades periodically. If that's happening when the droid is targeting it, it'll leave it and go to a healer. The workaround is to either wait to see it evade and then repair, try to repair it without watching for the evade and hope you get lucky, or /stuck when he destroys that console early. That are three solution, another workaround that my group (Seven Friends and Lancard) used yesterday is that we just keep the boss on right side when he is about to destroy a console, then move boss to left side to AoE turrets+boss while droid is repairing right side, then when it's done you move boss right side and do the same. By controlling which console he repairs you are then totally safe and avoid ever having to deal with the evade+droid goes on healer problem. Edited December 16, 2014 by RikuvonDrake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki_ Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) nvm "rikulordofdyinginreds" beat me to it ... Edited December 16, 2014 by Loki_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methoxa Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 First of all Bulo is not that hard not in 8man Hm and not in 16man Hm and espeecially not in Sm. In 16m you have got 3 lifters that can chase you, that does not occur everytime. When it does you have to take 1 or 2 get healed and run into the last one. You might have to kite a little to buy your healers more time. Then ofc you can use def cd's or other mechanics in order to prevent dmg. You could also use a medpac. Some ppl here mouned that they get hit by the boss attacks as far as i understood it right. The boss has 1 special attacks which shoots alternatively the one highest in threat and the second highest. THIS SHOULD BE YOUR TANKS. If a dps is second highest threat your tanks are doing something seriously wrong. Tanks should also position themselves so they wont cleave the other tank/the rest of the raid. Raid should always be spread to avoid the aoe attacks + lifters to kill instantly the raid. Kill the pirates with the barrage circles and/or let the offtank take a barrel and let him kite them into the purple circle. Bossdps on tanks is a little lower than Nefra Hm, raiddmg is a little higher. If you think that boss is too hard, dont even bother going further into the ravagers, all the other bosses are far harder. I mean MasterBlaster @HM = goodnight. Raiding is the only long term aspect the game has left, dont destroy it by wanting them to make it easier. Basically Hm should be cleared when NiM comes out, otherwise many ppl wouldnt have something to do except for twinking or gearing twinks/alts/companion with 198gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namesaretough Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 That are three solution, another workaround that my group (Seven Friends and Lancard) used yesterday is that we just keep the boss on right side when he is about to destroy a console, then move boss to left side to AoE turrets+boss while droid is repairing right side, then when it's done you move boss right side and do the same. By controlling which console he repairs you are then totally safe and avoid ever having to deal with the evade+droid goes on healer problem. Does that require you have two consoles on opposite sides of the room broken? It doesn't avoid the evade problem though, that would just give you a way to force a repair on the un bugged console if I'm understanding correctly. I never noticed the droid avoided the console near the boss if two were broken, that's sort of nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Does that require you have two consoles on opposite sides of the room broken? It doesn't avoid the evade problem though, that would just give you a way to force a repair on the un bugged console if I'm understanding correctly. I never noticed the droid avoided the console near the boss if two were broken, that's sort of nice. Nono, the Wookie Rage is a mechanic which targets the CLOSEST console, basically if you want to avoid destryong the consoles on the left, you just keep the boss on the right before the mechanic happen (around every 45s). So what we do is that we basically keep the boss on the right side, close to the consoles, every time that the Wookie Rage is about to happen. That means that the boss always jumps to one of the right consoles, destroys it, spawn droid, move boss left, droid repairs, move boss back right, and repeat. Edited December 16, 2014 by RikuvonDrake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joran-Koon Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 So it's intentional that each loader in the 16 man story mode raid destined for group finder hits just as hard as one in 8 man hard mode and includes an extra loader on top? Since when is a mechanic in 8 man HM supposed to be easier than the equivalent in 16 man SM? Since 3.0 lol. Have you not noticed everything in the game is harder? FPs are harder, ops are harder and both require more coordination. Story mode is story mode is story mode, especially in group finder context. That means it should be doable in reasonable amount of time (less than 3 hours) by group of complete strangers without voice chat and only "decent" level of skill. Progression raiders like you can bask in their excellence and making progress in HMs and being proud about 1-shooting this boss first week in 55 gear. That's all good but not when talking SM It's the same thing when Draxus came out, pugs couldn't get that down if their life depended on it, memorizing 9 phases in week 2-3 wasn't going to happen and it was only until after a while that the population got it together. These ops are mechanic heavy and once people learn how to properly deal with issues that arise, we won't be complaining anymore. The people who've progressed past this point are the ones who figured it out and executed it faster than the rest. I'm not saying every player has to be a God but if you know your class and have a good sense of the game and other's classes, these mechanics are completely doable. My suggestion is to learn how to deal with them before rioting they be nerfed to the ground. Raiding is a long term objective to this game and should be satisfying to complete anything (both in SM and HM). We don't need to take that away just so we can faceroll on the keyboard, beat the boss and then quit cause "this game's too easy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafkin Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I don't think the bug is that they do too much damage, I think the bug is that all three target one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I don't think the bug is that they do too much damage, I think the bug is that all three target one person. agreed. This fight is a PUG killer. SM should not be designed like this. If BW's intent is to get gamers into seeing the story, they failed. Edited December 17, 2014 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) If you think that boss is too hard, dont even bother going further into the ravagers, all the other bosses are far harder. I mean MasterBlaster @HM = goodnight. Which part of story mode discussion you missed? on SM, all other bosses are in line with difficulty of comparable TFB/S&V/DF/DP bosses were at 55. It's the same thing when Draxus came out No. 16 Draxus sm was bugged for few weeks which is why everyone was doing it (without major issues) on 8man, not because "people couldn't figure it out". Council was the one that took months for larger population to memorize 7 million mechanics and make PUG groups relatively 'safe' to attempt the Council. And it perfectly represents the max level of difficulty SM bosses should have which Bulo exceedes. Raiding is a long term objective to this game and should be satisfying to complete anything (both in SM and HM). We don't need to take that away just so we can faceroll on the keyboard, beat the boss and then quit cause "this game's too easy".Not it's not a long-term objective on SM with group finder. That is not the design. It's suppoused to be completeable in 1 evening. Edited December 17, 2014 by Pietrastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joran-Koon Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Not it's not a long-term objective on SM with group finder. That is not the design. It's suppoused to be completeable in 1 evening. Didn't know you were a dev and knew what their intention was... Council had one shot mechanics, so does Bulo. is it because the pug killer is the second boss and not the last therefore stopping you from loot on 4/5 that makes you upset? Honestly though, It's gonna get hit with the nerf bat soon. After the stream last night plus the constant complaints about the game being to hard, i give it a month at the most before the second bosses of both ops are turned into carebear versions of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 (edited) is it because the pug killer is the second boss and not the last therefore stopping you from loot on 4/5 that makes you upset?Of course, what answer did u expect? I can't raid with my guild every time and sometimes have to rely on a mechanic of group finder designed by Bioware so obviously I would like to walk out of it with some stuff instead of 4 comms, huge repair bill and hours wasted. In the end it doesn't matter how much elite NiM raiders proclaim that everyone should L2P and thus nothing would be unbeatable in 1 try in PUG group. If a content is too hard and too risky for average PUGs, people will drop it. Happened with EC, will happen with current opses if the 2nd bosses continue to be pug-killers. i give it a month at the most before the second bosses of both ops are turned into carebear versions of themselves.And thus you will have safer experience when queuing for SMs to grind comms for fresh crappy new alt that elite NiM guild leader wouldn't take into HM ops. Non-carebear version will continue to exist in HM/NiM modes and everyone will be happy Edited December 19, 2014 by Pietrastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 Didn't know you were a dev and knew what their intention was... Council had one shot mechanics, so does Bulo. is it because the pug killer is the second boss and not the last therefore stopping you from loot on 4/5 that makes you upset? Honestly though, It's gonna get hit with the nerf bat soon. After the stream last night plus the constant complaints about the game being to hard, i give it a month at the most before the second bosses of both ops are turned into carebear versions of themselves. I raid nightmare modes. That said, what the hell is the point of having story modes that are so hard 95% of pugs will never move past the 2nd boss? And how does it make it carebear to nerf those? They're called story mode for a reason. I'm all for hard and nightmare modes being as difficult as possible (need more Lost Island type flashpoints please), but this is such an elitist argument I can't possibly support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methoxa Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 what the hell is the point of having story modes that are so hard 95% of pugs will never move past the 2nd boss? They might learn how to play and improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadecounty Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 They might learn how to play and improve. If that were the case, everyone would eventually finish nightmare mode for all ops, because they'd all learn how to play and improve. Unfortunately, that is not the case. You have to have realistic expectations. And again, there is a middle ground between 'lol faceroll' and 'almost no pug group will ever finish this fight'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocanon Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 If that were the case, everyone would eventually finish nightmare mode for all ops, because they'd all learn how to play and improve. Unfortunately, that is not the case. You have to have realistic expectations. And again, there is a middle ground between 'lol faceroll' and 'almost no pug group will ever finish this fight'. Its certainly not an easy mark to hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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