Refund training costs [yes] / [no]

[Code_Airwolf]

So we have 49% for a refund and 33% against. ie the first group has 50% more people than the second one which could be the ones that doesn't care

 

Now what would be interesting to know is if it's because people are simply greedy or find it unfair.

 

That being said, would a refund or compensation be issued I seriously doubt people vehement against it would turn the offer down.

 

Way to skew your own numbers. It's been noted several times splitting the NOs from the Don't Cares are splitting the same voter pool. So actually you're looking at 49% Yes!!! vs. 50% No or Not Necessary So it's more 50/50

 

That concludes the accuracy portion of this conversation, now back to your regularly programmed Greed / Need convo, already in progress.

[Frybert]

Way to skew your own numbers. It's been noted several times splitting the NOs from the Don't Cares are splitting the same voter pool. So actually you're looking at 49% Yes!!! vs. 50% No or Not Necessary So it's more 50/50

 

That concludes the accuracy portion of this conversation, now back to your regularly programmed Greed / Need convo, already in progress.

 

The numbers are actually worse for OP and the people wanting refunds or whatever. See, what people are failing to see is the number is (currently) 142. Regardless of what percentage of the poll, that number is perhaps the most significant. That poll has been up right around 2 days now. In that time, out of a player base of thousands, only 142 people felt the training cost issue was bad enough to come to the forums, find this thread, and vote in the poll. You just sent BW a message, though I don't think it was the one you thought you were sending.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Frybert
Poll number changed

[Galbatorrix]

If they do anything, they could just grant everyone that had early access like 1000 Cartel Coins as a way of making up for credits lost.

[Deewe]

Way to skew your own numbers. It's been noted several times splitting the NOs from the Don't Cares are splitting the same voter pool. So actually you're looking at 49% Yes!!! vs. 50% No or Not Necessary So it's more 50/50

I voted I don't care but do feel a refund or a gesture from BioWare is needed so your stance is wrong. Although I don't mind if they do nothing but I do think it's bad for customer retention.

 

 

The numbers are actually worse for OP and the people wanting refunds or whatever. See, what people are failing to see is the number is (currently) 141. Regardless of what percentage of the poll, that number is perhaps the most significant. That poll has been up right around 2 days now. In that time, out of a player base of thousands, only 141 people felt the training cost issue was bad enough to come to the forums, find this thread, and vote in the poll. You just sent BW a message, though I don't think it was the one you thought you were sending.

What you tend to forget is usually 4 to 6% of the players come to the forums, so you have to at least multiply the numbers by 25 to get a more precise number.

 

Then regarding how stall are the forums you can't expect much traffic especially on a poll, as most people think it will change nothing whatever they vote or not.

 

Also 300 votes is a good number to get an accurate trend. More is always better but with a population of a couple of millions players it's a nice population.

 

Finally whatever you like the numbers of not so far there are more people for a refund than against it. The last option is pretty clear and has been made on purpose because not everything is white and black.

[Code_Airwolf]

I voted I don't care but do feel a refund or a gesture from BioWare is needed so your stance is wrong. Although I don't mind if they do nothing but I do think it's bad for customer retention. [/Quote]

 

So you didn't even vote properly in your own poll. If you felt a refund is needed you should've voted yes. If you don't mind if they do nothing, then that means it's not vital iyo, so that would be No. You're proving the point why the "I Don't Care" option skews your entire poll.

 

 

Finally whatever you like the numbers of not so far there are more people for a refund than against it. The last option is pretty clear and has been made on purpose because not everything is white and black.

 

The last option is pretty clear that it's vague and the same as No. It's flawed. And at the time of this post it's 48% Yes and 52% No+Don't Care, so keep on keepin' on with your inaccurate analysis.

 

I'm done further propagating the thread, more energy needs to be focussed on the actual game-breaking issues going on right now. Good luck on your endeavor.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Code_Airwolf

[tdmaha]

Need / Greed

 

This issue is Greed.

 

The End.

 

You forgot...Pass

[Rafaman]

I voted I don't care but do feel a refund or a gesture from BioWare is needed so your stance is wrong. Although I don't mind if they do nothing but I do think it's bad for customer retention.

 

 

 

What you tend to forget is usually 4 to 6% of the players come to the forums, so you have to at least multiply the numbers by 25 to get a more precise number.

 

Then regarding how stall are the forums you can't expect much traffic especially on a poll, as most people think it will change nothing whatever they vote or not.

 

Also 300 votes is a good number to get an accurate trend. More is always better but with a population of a couple of millions players it's a nice population.

 

Finally whatever you like the numbers of not so far there are more people for a refund than against it. The last option is pretty clear and has been made on purpose because not everything is white and black.

 

Oops... your bias is showing.

 

So first. If you think it is a good idea that BW do something then you really do care. So... no, your vote was FOR compensation.

 

Next by adding the idc response you do in fact impact the against votes. If you really wanted to avoid bias you would simply have had 2 options. Those that do not care would simply not vote because... they don't care. Lol. Pretty simple.

 

Last, it has been a while since I've run stats like this, but significant sample isn't the issue. The polling method, and your questions skew the results. So this opinion poll is hardly relevant. It might be interesting to you and others but it should hardly be a vehicle to base any decision.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Rafaman

[DarthTHC]

The numbers are actually worse for OP and the people wanting refunds or whatever. See, what people are failing to see is the number is (currently) 142. Regardless of what percentage of the poll, that number is perhaps the most significant. That poll has been up right around 2 days now. In that time, out of a player base of thousands, only 142 people felt the training cost issue was bad enough to come to the forums, find this thread, and vote in the poll. You just sent BW a message, though I don't think it was the one you thought you were sending.

 

The 142 is actually some combination of people who legit felt there was a really, really big problem, plus the people who imagined that smashing the Yes button could get them some number of easy credits.

[tdmaha]

It cost me over 3 MILLION to augment my gear last night! BW I demand a REFUND...

 

Wait on second thought as I read that again I realized how pathetic that sounds....

[LordArtemis]

Oops... your bias is showing.

 

So first. If you think it is a good idea that BW do something then you really do care. So... no, your vote was FOR compensation.

 

Sorry Rafaman, but I feel this is likely hyperbole. Most folks would welcome compensation I would expect, even if they don't need or want it.

 

Any contentions to the contrary are likely disingenuous.

 

You can support the idea of offering refunds and still find satisfaction in what was offered. Just because someone doesn't rage against something does not mean they lend it their support.

 

That is just propaganda speak to attempt to get folks to take a strong negative stance. It is an attempt at manipulation, nothing more.

Edited December 11, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Andryah]

Sorry Rafaman, but I feel this is likely hyperbole. Most folks would welcome compensation I would expect, even if they don't need or want it.

 

Most kids would welcome a pony too. But that does not mean they deserve one or will get one.

 

The poll and the thread are a waste of energy... except for the disaffected to have soapbox to climb up on and complain. Eric made it clear that they felt the free training for life was both fair and sufficient and that they would not be refunding any credits.

 

No means no.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Andryah

[Jeroxxme]

Most kids would welcome a pony too. But that does not mean they deserve one or will get one.

 

Even those who deserve one don't always get one. Because parental units have more pressing priorities to tend to with their scarce resources.

 

And speaking of ponies... I think after one week of beating it this horse looks pretty dead. It looks like devs just let everyone vent their hot air of entitlement and (hopefully) are working on fixing some serious bugs.

[Quraswren]

It cost me over 3 MILLION to augment my gear last night! BW I demand a REFUND...

 

Wait on second thought as I read that again I realized how pathetic that sounds....

 

IF they told you today augments costs were staying the same and were intended, giving you the impression to go ahead and spend the credits cause it's not changing but then 2 days later announced it was going to be free for everyone. Well.......

 

I think you would have earned a refund.

 

Similar to this. Gamers told it was intended for us to buy skill again and for a higher price and it was working as intended. So gamers spent credits based on what BW said.

 

Then 2 days later BW says the exact opposite, makes all skill free. I know plenty of gamers that would have loved to spent that million to 3 million credits on something else. (I use that as it was about a million credits to buy skills for each toon maybe a little less as I'm ball parking it.)

 

It's a bit odd to do business that way.The businesses I know don't do that without a refund

 

Whats really pathetic is thinking that how BW handled it was OK.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Quraswren

[DarthTHC]

IF they told you today augments costs were staying the same and were intended given you the impression to go ahead and spend the credits but then 2 days later announced it was going to be free for everyone.

 

I think you would have earned a refund.

 

Similar to this. Gamers told it was intended for us to buy skill again and for a higher price and it was working as intended. So gamers spent credits based on what BW said.

 

Then 2 days later BW says the exact opposite, makes all skill free.

 

It's a bit odd to do business that way.The businesses I know don't do that without a refund

 

Whats really pathetic is thinking BW move here was OK.

 

You're forgetting part of the story. Between BioWare saying, "It's intended" and following up with "We're changing it", there was a whole lot of the players saying, "We really REALLY HATE THAT!"

 

Based on that player feedback, BioWare changed its mind - very swiftly! - and in the end made the decision that made the game better for players.

 

Let's don't punish them or be angry with them for listening to us players and giving us players a very nice quality of life improvement.

Edited December 11, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Quraswren]

You're forgetting part of the story. Between BioWare saying, "It's intended" and following up with "We're changing it", there was a whole lot of the players saying, "We really REALLY HATE THAT!"

 

Based on that player feedback, BioWare changed its mind - very swiftly! - and in the end made the decision that made the game better for players.

 

Let's don't punish them or be angry with them for listening to us players and giving us players a very nice quality of life improvement.

 

As if this was the first time anyone as ever brought up skill costs. Suddenly its game changing and BW makes a snap decision? I don't believe that for a second.

 

What I do believe is gamers were pissed at buying skills again. Not the same as just buying new skills.

 

Telling gamers one thing then doing another 2 days later is a bit odd no matter their intention.

 

That why I think it would have been the right thing to do and give pre-order gamers a refund.

 

Is it game breaking? Nope but I think it would have been the right thing for them to do.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Quraswren

[Khevar]

IF they told you today augments costs were staying the same and were intended, giving you the impression to go ahead and spend the credits cause it's not changing but then 2 days later announced it was going to be free for everyone. Well.......

If BW announced that augments costs were going to be free from here on out, I would be happy about all the money I would save in the future, rather than get angry about money I spent in the past.

I think you would have earned a refund.

You and I have very different ideas of what "earned" means.

[Quraswren]

If BW announced that augments costs were going to be free from here on out, I would be happy about all the money I would save in the future, rather than get angry about money I spent in the past.

 

I get that as well but if you don't really have many alts, what is spent and gone matters more then what may happen in the future.

 

You and I have very different ideas of what "earned" means.

 

Clearly

[DarthTHC]

As if this was the first time anyone as ever brought up skill costs. Suddenly its game changing and BW makes a snap decision? I don't believe that for a second.

 

What I do believe is gamers were pissed at buying skills again. Not the same as just buying new skills.

 

Telling gamers one thing then doing another 2 days later is a bit odd no matter their intention.

 

That why I think it would have been the right thing to do and give pre-order gamers a refund.

 

Is it game breaking? Nope but I think it would have been the right thing for them to do.

 

No, it's not, really. This is the truth of any change. It is one way one minute, then an announcement gets made, then it's another way. Any change at all.

 

The game was buy the box, pay $15/month. Then an announcement was made. Then it changed.

 

Stop being hung up on the timing. It's a change for the better. Enjoy it instead of being irked by it.

[JudasGray]

So - if they had waited 2 weeks instead of two days to remove the training costs - would you have been ok with that?

 

See no matter what people are gonna complain - by doing it 2 days later, it minimized the amount of people impacted. If they had done it right away, well then everyone that was buying skills before 3.0 would have had a fit - can't make everyone happy, and the more you try, the more you get pissed on.

[Brewski]

As if this was the first time anyone as ever brought up skill costs. Suddenly its game changing and BW makes a snap decision? I don't believe that for a second.

 

Did you even bother to read the initial post?

 

snip

 

We have been talking about this topic internally for quite some time and when you add player feedback to the mix one thing becomes clear… We should make training costs a thing of the past.

 

Since launch, you have spent millions of credits training skills across your characters. As of our maintenance next week all ability training costs will be completely removed from the game, forever!

 

snip

 

It was clearly an internal dialog that was ongoing for a while, not a spur of the moment decision. This incident was just the one to tip the balance in favor of removing the costs. They did not do it to hose you over. They did it because they felt it was the right decision and the right time to make the change.

 

To turn around and punch the gift horse in the mouth about it just silly.

[Quraswren]

So - if they had waited 2 weeks instead of two days to remove the training costs - would you have been ok with that?

 

Similar to real life and refund, it wold have been easier to swallow because that is what we know and how things normally work. There is usually a grace period.

 

I've used this expample in teh past. When Apple lowered iphone 5 costs by $100 only a month or so after most paid the increased amount, Apple gave then the difference.

 

I know if I buy something at Best Buy they will price match it for at least 14 days. Even longer if I'm a loyal customer.

If I missed the cut off date or even missed seeing a lower price - too bad.

 

That is what most are familiar with.

 

Telling you one thing then doing the opposite 2 days later is odd for any business no matter their good intention. Some spend a fair amount of time getting credits. Spending them and then seeing what they just bought made free is grating and a normal reaction. Just because it's a game doesn't mean it should be different.

 

See no matter what people are gonna complain - by doing it 2 days later, it minimized the amount of people impacted. If they had done it right away, well then everyone that was buying skills before 3.0 would have had a fit - can't make everyone happy, and the more you try, the more you get pissed on.

 

I do agree you can't make everyone happy but you sure as hell can catch more fish in the net than BW tried to catch with this move.

 

Like I said, it's not game breaking, I doubt anyone quits over it but the way BW handled it, I don't see it as the right thing to do.

 

SNIP...

It was clearly an internal dialog that was ongoing for a while,

 

All the more reason it should have already been implemented before pre-order launch. It's not like it was the first time gamers hated buying skills.

 

I don't recall EVER, seeing a jedi master charge a student for training.

 

SNIP....

 

Stop being hung up on the timing. It's a change for the better. Enjoy it instead of being irked by it.[/color][/font]

 

Sorry but timing is much to important especially in business and entertainment to be viewed as as anything less.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Quraswren

[Galothor]

Let's don't punish them or be angry with them for listening to us players and giving us players a very nice quality of life improvement.

 

They had 3 years to listen to us. And now all of a sudden 1 week after an addon when a lot of people already spent millions they decide to change it. That is a reason to be angry. Why not implement it with 3.0. It's not like people never ask for it before. Especially after it had been free with the 12x exp event. They had the PTS up and running and people there probably brought up those high costs for abilities (new and old).

 

So they are basically saying: "**** you. It's your own fault when you are dumb enough to pre-order and give us your money in advance!"

Edited December 11, 2014 by Galothor

[DreadtechSavant]

this is just generally how I feel about this discussion.

 

NO. and to be blunt after the utter c r a p that's been happening with threads like this one if I was them I would say

s*** you lot of ungrateful B********* , you can just carry on paying for them and rescind the offer.

 

This is not aimed at any individual poster but really don't care if some take offense in any case.

 

someone summed it up well, anything is true one minute and not the next. So you have no reason to complain that you paid in-game fictional credits buying skills that are now free. They could bring out a new cartel pack on a Monday and the game could end the very next day with no prier warning, (star wars Galaxy's ended just as quick) This is and always will be the subject of on-line games and true in real life as well. you could buy a T.V on Monday only to find that the next Monday the T.V is on offer at half the prize. Really suck it up its life and life is not always going to go the way you want it too.

Edited December 11, 2014 by DreadtechSavant

[DarthTHC]

They had 3 years to listen to us. And now all of a sudden 1 week after an addon when a lot of people already spent millions they decide to change it. That is a reason to be angry. Why not implement it with 3.0. It's not like people never ask for it before. Especially after it had been free with the 12x exp event. They had the PTS up and running and people there probably brought up those high costs for abilities (new and old).

 

So they are basically saying: "**** you. It's your own fault when you are dumb enough to pre-order and give us your money in advance!"

 

So you're saying if they don't make a change the minute we ask for it, it's OK to be angry with and punish them when they do make the change?

 

Are you my ex-wife?

[DreadtechSavant]

So you're saying if they don't make a change the minute we ask for it, it's OK to be angry with and punish them when they do make the change?

 

Are you my ex-wife?

 

That made me laugh,