Lets talk about Disciplines

[Khevar]

And some stuff you really don't need. For example, in the old system, I'd never have taken Blazing Barrels or Burst Mode.

Not wanting Blazing Barrels I can understand. I've never been a fan of Hail of Bolts -- last time I can recall using it was on a trash pull in TfB right before the big froggy thing.

 

But what's not to like about Burst Mode?

Edited December 9, 2014 by Khevar

[azudelphi]

I don't know the numbers as well as most of you...I don't parse or even care about min/maxing.

 

I won't and am not saying I'm correct or right or whatever.

 

I'm just expressing my feelings on this subject (the new discipline system)

 

I am disappointed. My character feels significantly different and no longer plays the way I used to play. (I guess people would call it a hybrid sorcerer) I could spit out lightning non-stop, heal like crazy and had every utility I wanted. The character was perfect for me. I do realize that he was not min maxed, that he didn't heal the best or dps the best however I had more enjoyment than with any character in any game.

 

Now that character is impossible to have and that makes me sad. Now I simply must play the character a certain way and that is not the way I enjoy playing it. I do not even have the option to become the other class my base class can become I simply have a character that has been changed enough to make it different enough that it's no longer mine and no longer enjoyable.

 

Long story short, your hybrid was doomed the moment 3.0 came out. Whether it was Disciplines or if it was something we haven't seen, you were never going to keep your hybrid sorc. Because your hybrid sorc was either part of the problem or a symptom of the problem.

 

Over-attachment to a spec is unhealthy.

[Aeciro]

Long story short, your hybrid was doomed the moment 3.0 came out. Whether it was Disciplines or if it was something we haven't seen, you were never going to keep your hybrid sorc. Because your hybrid sorc was either part of the problem or a symptom of the problem.

 

Over-attachment to a spec is unhealthy.

 

 

And I know that's true...especially attachment to such an underpowered spec but it's never enjoyable when you settle in and get comfortable with a character in a game and then it's changed radically enough to make it feel this different. Sucks.

[vankirkr]

I really don't like the new system, I had a more balanced sage with some healing abilities but also telekenetics, and now I really can only choose one of those to follow. Overall, I'm finding I'm dying a hell of a lot more than I did before, and its making the game less fun. Maybe I have to learn to play healer better, but I'm not liking game play so far. Also, I've seen a lot of the skills of my shadow removed and forced into a specific avenue. I'm really not liking these changes so far, it's making me lean towards cancelling my subscription.

[azudelphi]

And I know that's true...especially attachment to such an underpowered spec but it's never enjoyable when you settle in and get comfortable with a character in a game and then it's changed radically enough to make it feel this different. Sucks.

 

Different doesn't have to suck. It can be an opportunity.

[Tune]

Yet its a better system than the leading western mmo, WoW.

 

WoW lost alot points for me when that happend. It was good in the end, since it helped me decide to quit.

 

And now this is going same path...

[Tune]

Now I simply must play the character a certain way and that is not the way I enjoy playing it.

 

has been changed enough to make it different enough that it's no longer mine and no longer enjoyable.

 

This!

[Tune]

I really don't like the new system, I had a more balanced sage with some healing abilities but also telekenetics, and now I really can only choose one of those to follow. Overall, I'm finding I'm dying a hell of a lot more than I did before, and its making the game less fun. Maybe I have to learn to play healer better, but I'm not liking game play so far. Also, I've seen a lot of the skills of my shadow removed and forced into a specific avenue. I'm really not liking these changes so far, it's making me lean towards cancelling my subscription.

 

I'm with you bro. I used to play hybrid spec on my sage and sorc, now dunno when going to lvl them again.

[Dedd]

It might mean more people grouping, so the various path's help differently, each has something useful, so really you need to re-think how/who you group with.

 

Rather than x of this class, x of that (and certain builds) .. the rest of you aren't wanted.

 

Now the difference is 'utility' and most are useful for something. generally i go the +dmg route, others will go for +x % healing via cover/shield etc

 

So it makes builds more useful, while still different

[Turajin]

so really you need to re-think how/who you group with.

In enjoy doing most stuff solo. Sure, it's a MMORPG, but grouping should be an option, not mandantory.

 

Now the difference is 'utility' and most are useful for something.

Well, from my point of view most of them feel useless. Quoting myself from an earlier post in this thread:

 

"Stagger" (increases immobilisation by 1 second)... wow, 1 second? Yeah that rocks...

 

"Overwhelm" (immobilizes the opponent when I use ravage)... yeah, as if that ever mattered since the opponent rarely moves far enough away from me to ever make it relevant...

 

"Undying" (reduces the cooldown on "undying rage") - affects a skill I never ever used. And for the 1 in 1000 situations where I might use it, I don't give a damn about its cooldown, since I doubt I ever will use that ability twice in the same fight...

 

"Phantom", ( increases the duration of "Force Camouflage" by to seconds... wow, yes, with the 4 second duration that skill was another one that was completely useless, but with 6 seconds duration, that skill is now... well, still completely useless, from my point of view...

I fail to see where these utilities (all are taken from the Juggernaut-class) are "usefull" in any relevant way...

[Dedd]

In enjoy doing most stuff solo. Sure, it's a MMORPG, but grouping should be an option, not mandantory.

 

 

Well, from my point of view most of them feel useless. Quoting myself from an earlier post in this thread:

 

 

I fail to see where these utilities (all are taken from the Juggernaut-class) are "usefull" in any relevant way...

 

I've never done Jugg so those skills i have no idea of

 

They can't please everyone and i'm guessing they went for what is more attractive to grouping first.

 

I'll admit the some of the utilities i see i couldn't care less about, so for me if it isn't +dmg to some skill i know i'll use, it becomes whatever is closest to something i'd want.

 

As for Solo v Group

 

I mostly solo, so whatever i take is more aimed towards me, not others. Basically though it comes down to whatever BW thinks is best for them, not us.

[Tune]

1 - I'll admit the some of the utilities i see i couldn't care less about,

2 - Basically though it comes down to whatever BW thinks is best for them, not us.

 

 

1 - Yet they call them meaningful...

2 - Exactly, but we are the ones paying, so...

[azudelphi]

In enjoy doing most stuff solo. Sure, it's a MMORPG, but grouping should be an option, not mandantory.

 

 

Well, from my point of view most of them feel useless. Quoting myself from an earlier post in this thread:

 

 

I fail to see where these utilities (all are taken from the Juggernaut-class) are "usefull" in any relevant way...

 

30 second reduction in Focused Defense / Undying Rage isn't useful? A 10% self-heal through your stun-breaker isn't useful? Extra Rage Generation through Deadly Reprisal or Unyielding isn't useful? Adding Sunder to Smash isn't useful at all? Self-cleansing not useful?

 

The others you posted have utility in PVP. But there are plenty of PVE options.

 

And you know what, I bet your Jugg plays the exact same way it did before 3.0; possibly with some improved PVE abilities / perks built in to the Discipline. The only players who had a drastic change were people with what are true hybrids, everyone else walked away improved.

Edited December 9, 2014 by azudelphi

[azudelphi]

1 - Yet they call them meaningful...

2 - Exactly, but we are the ones paying, so...

 

I am going to guess he meant that they focus on what's best for people who group. Because what's best for Bioware is to give all players a good experience.

[Anzel]

I think it would be cool to be able to go back and rewatch any of the previous cut scenes. Maybe some sort of interface on your ship or in your stronghold. Would be super cool...

[Turajin]

A 10% self-heal through your stun-breaker isn't useful?

Barely use the stun breaker...

 

Extra Rage Generation through Deadly Reprisal or Unyielding isn't useful?

Also, I barely have problems with gerating rage...

 

Self-cleansing not useful?

Actually, in now more than one and a half years playing the game, on 30 toons, 3 of them leveled to 55... I never ever used the "self cleansing" ability you got before even once... so I doubt I'll touch this one more often.

 

Like I said, there are some things that are like "hmmm, looks somehow OK"... but in how far they are "better" or "more meaningful" than all the stuff we had before, I cannot see. It was advertized, and repeatetly stated by all those who appreciate the change made, that there are "more meaningful" choices, or some "OMG, that's what I ever wanted"-stuff, and so on. All that is really subjective. From my point of view there are no "meaningful" choices - at least not "more meaningful" than they where before. Some look even less meaningful. The only real difference I recognized is that we now have fewer choices (but since there is nothing really relevant to chose, that doesn't matter much). And while picking "lame" options in the old system wasn't much of a hassle (because you get another point next level), chosing those same "lame" options now, when we only have a handful of choices over the whole range of 60 levels, is even more depressing. I could live with those options we have if there where like 20 per tier and one pick per level. Maybe then there would end up some more useful looking things in the utility list.

 

And you know what, I bet your Jugg plays the exact same way it did before 3.0; possibly with some improved PVE abilities / perks built in to the Discipline.

Actually, for me it doesn't matter if the jugg plays the same, better or completely different than before. Since I cannot customize him any more (from my point of view, the customization options have been reduced), it's not "my jugg" anymore, but bowares "one-and-only-way-to-be-a-jugg".

[Max_Killjoy]

You don't like 5% armor penetration and an extra 3% alacrity (6% total and built faster)?

 

Edit: Seriously, the Commando came out of this patch feeling amazing... they probably have the absolute least grounds to stand on complaining about 3.0. We got extra burst damage, aoe damage, single target still amazing, extra mobility, survivability strong, and raid-wide utility.

 

As long as I ignore the imposition of Supercharge and everything that branches from it on the Ars and IO specs, the Merc came out well enough.

 

(And I very much AM ignoring the whole thing -- I haven't even trained Supercharged Gas.)

Edited December 10, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Tune]

On my guardian, only 2 utilitys i used to have in my old dps spec, and one is important for questing, and also ok for pvp, and the other is important for pvp, but still ok to have, why not. And both can actualy be nice for tanking too. Still, 21 options and 7 points to pick, and only 2 get my attention, and for diferent reasons. Seems short...

 

Rest, well, is really hard to chose, coz none is actualy meaningfull for my play style.

 

Now, my second char to play this exp, is my BH powertech (also got a vanguard), and first of all, the new dps ability is yet another "shoot and w8 3sec" ability, like if one wasnt enough. Feels ridiculous to have those 2 abilities in same spec.

At first, i tough it was a replacement, an improved version for that spec, but no, we actualy keep both,

Really guys??? Not only there is a second ability that takes 3sec to do dmg after you shoot, but also thats suposed to be the main dmg ability for that spec.

I can only imagine in pvp, how many times you will die in that 3sec window...

 

Second, the main ability that i expected to see as utility for pt and vang, was the charge, that i really miss when playing dps spec. The charge is too important for a class that focus on close range dps.

Since when is a "charge" ability only for tanking? What makes tanks need it, also make dps need. That i would call a great utility, would...

[Beakertanks]

Shadow Kinetic.

I tank PvE.

I use DPS gear to make my tank a hybrid in pvp.

I have MORE options in the new system.

Yes I mean that I now have more different things I can do with my spec.

I like the new system.

Can't make everyone happy.

[Tune]

Shadow Kinetic.

I tank PvE.

I use DPS gear to make my tank a hybrid in pvp.

I have MORE options in the new system.

Yes I mean that I now have more different things I can do with my spec.

I like the new system.

Can't make everyone happy.

 

 

Aint you lucky?

 

But this only confirms what many already stated here, utilities benefict very much the pvp players. While many of the PvE feel like bots, without many options.

[TheDuge]

Posting out of boredom at work...

The TL;DR version of my post is this: the skill points are far from useless and in many cases you DO have to make a choice between more useful ones. The fact that the thread starter is not even level 60 yet says it all. If the only thing you are doing in this game is leveling and maybe SM flashpoints then no wonder you find the skills useless. You are playing the easiest content of the game. Try pvp or at least the story mode level 60 operations (not even talking about HM or NiM mode ops) and suddenly you'll want more and more of those skills.

 

My main is a sage dps so I'm going to demonstrate how useful skills are in that tree. I'm pretty sure someone who mains another spec (and plays his spec of choice at an at least advanced level!) could do the same.

 

Psychic Suffusion - Force wave heals you and up to 7 affected allies for x.

If I was a sage healer this could be quite useful. A free aoe heal. If I'm in an operations fight which is healing intensive and my healers struggled a lot I may take this as a sage dps to help out whenever I can.

Jedi resistance - Increase damage reduction by 3%.

Bonus damage resistance is always nice, in many cases you take unavoidable raid damage as dps, but hey, you can mess up something, fail to move out of a circle because of lag, so it still may be useful. Every bit of damage reduction helps.

Tectonic mastery - Increases the damage done by forcequake by 25%

Here is something useful for you levelers. Force quake was buffed significantly in 3.0 and trash packs die quite fast even without taking this skill point. Don't tell me this isn't useful. And guess what, it even may be useful in operations, at boss fights which have lots of adds and in need of good aoe damage.

Pain bearer - Increases all healing received by 10%. Does not affect redistributed life.

This is a good bonus your healers and even you yourself receive, in case you need to heal yourself. This definitely helps out your team.

Humility - 25% damage reduction for 10 seconds on targets you used your stun on.

Very good PVP skill. Not useful in operations but in any type of pvp this is a must. It may even help in leveling if you have trouble fighting some stronger mob.

Pinning resolve - Reduced CD on stun, force lift affects up to 2 standard or weak targets within 8 meters.

The reduced CD on stun is quite good in pvp. Also remember if you took Humility then this also means even more damage reduction. And once again, if you are having trouble with a pull while leveling, this may help you out.

Upheavel - Project has and x% (on dulfy it says 5%, not sure what it is in game, can't check now) chance to project an additional chunk of debris at the target doing 50% of it's normal damage.

Well, if that percentage is really only 5% then it's quite useless, but it possibly is only a typo. Project is not used in any of the sage rotations normally, it's use is situational. For example if you don't have any instant cast abilities and the mob would die in 1,5 secs anyway it's better to cast project on it. It is still useful in pvp for kiting, and then it's a direct damage increase.

 

So we are done with ONLY the skillful skills yet and not one of them is completely useless. There are useful things here for you if you are leveling only and just smashing through mobs with forcequake or if you are pvping, or if you are doing operations. Also, you can't take all of them obviously, so you have to choose from them, depending on what you plan on doing. But even if you know what you'll be facing you still may want more than 3, how much you usually take.

 

Should I go on and explain why the masterful and heroic skills are useful? I don't think there is a point, but if you really want to, I'll do it.

[Kikitigar]

My opinion is they are great.

[LordArtemis]

Well, I have a few concerns. But they are by no means serious ones.

 

First, my treasured agent. it seems the ability to end cooldowns on some of our abilities is gone. Couldn't find an option in the utilities, so now my rotation has changed to mostly snipe, then use something available. That feels a bit clunky.

 

Of course I am still adjusting.

 

I also found the removal of the cover requirement odd for some abilities, and requiring cover for OS.

 

Again, that is just a "feels wierd" kind of thing. Not sure what is going on, but its a bit tough to get a good comfortable rotation going now. Again, this just could be adjustment issues.

 

At any rate, playing my sniper is a bit more clunky than it was before. Would prefer some adjustment to return it to a smooth rotation if possible. No need to increase DPS, defense, any of that...would just like to see some progression in the rotation across the abilities instead of simply spamming snipe.

[Turajin]

Nope... the fact that you have to play pvp or do end-game content to find utilities says it all - it says the system is an epic fail, catered around only one fraction of the players, leaving out the rest

 

I don't want to pvp, I hate pvp, I will never participate in it, and thus it doesn't matter if utility X or Y is good in pvp. If it is of no practical use in levelling pve, than it doesn't matter to me if it is there or not. It's no valid choice, and thus not "meaningful". So, I hope the devs rework this system (and I hope they do it fast), either by changing some of the utilities or by adding more - adding stuff that some non-pvp, non-endgame, non-NiM-FP playing player can find useful and "meaningful". And while they are adding stuff, rework the number of points we get, so that we not only have more to chose from, but also more choices.

[kongol]

Posting out of boredom at work...

The TL;DR version of my post is this: the skill points are far from useless and in many cases you DO have to make a choice between more useful ones. The fact that the thread starter is not even level 60 yet says it all. If the only thing you are doing in this game is leveling and maybe SM flashpoints then no wonder you find the skills useless. You are playing the easiest content of the game. Try pvp or at least the story mode level 60 operations (not even talking about HM or NiM mode ops) and suddenly you'll want more and more of those skills.

 

My main is a sage dps so I'm going to demonstrate how useful skills are in that tree. I'm pretty sure someone who mains another spec (and plays his spec of choice at an at least advanced level!) could do the same.

 

 

If I was a sage healer this could be quite useful. A free aoe heal. If I'm in an operations fight which is healing intensive and my healers struggled a lot I may take this as a sage dps to help out whenever I can.

 

Bonus damage resistance is always nice, in many cases you take unavoidable raid damage as dps, but hey, you can mess up something, fail to move out of a circle because of lag, so it still may be useful. Every bit of damage reduction helps.

 

Here is something useful for you levelers. Force quake was buffed significantly in 3.0 and trash packs die quite fast even without taking this skill point. Don't tell me this isn't useful. And guess what, it even may be useful in operations, at boss fights which have lots of adds and in need of good aoe damage.

 

This is a good bonus your healers and even you yourself receive, in case you need to heal yourself. This definitely helps out your team.

 

Very good PVP skill. Not useful in operations but in any type of pvp this is a must. It may even help in leveling if you have trouble fighting some stronger mob.

 

The reduced CD on stun is quite good in pvp. Also remember if you took Humility then this also means even more damage reduction. And once again, if you are having trouble with a pull while leveling, this may help you out.

 

Well, if that percentage is really only 5% then it's quite useless, but it possibly is only a typo. Project is not used in any of the sage rotations normally, it's use is situational. For example if you don't have any instant cast abilities and the mob would die in 1,5 secs anyway it's better to cast project on it. It is still useful in pvp for kiting, and then it's a direct damage increase.

 

So we are done with ONLY the skillful skills yet and not one of them is completely useless. There are useful things here for you if you are leveling only and just smashing through mobs with forcequake or if you are pvping, or if you are doing operations. Also, you can't take all of them obviously, so you have to choose from them, depending on what you plan on doing. But even if you know what you'll be facing you still may want more than 3, how much you usually take.

 

Should I go on and explain why the masterful and heroic skills are useful? I don't think there is a point, but if you really want to, I'll do it.

 

Doesnt work all that way for some of the classes... like a bonus to force quake yea great now look at sweeping slash LOL that 25% isnt so great...