Serious pvp problems at 60 if you're not a healer

[Elsador]

I've never felt this squishy. I've never felt this ineffectual. I'll elaborate:

 

For concealment, the burst is gimped. Don't tell me about volatile substance- it's a replacement for explosive. Yes, it hits a little bit harder than explosive did, BUT sometimes it doesn't go when you want/need it to because of the weird interaction with the poisons that is necessary. The real problem is the missing backstab. Yes, I know backstab-from-stealth hits like Hidden Strike used to... but it puts BS on cooldown. Used to be able to follow up a hidden strike/shiv/laceratelacerate series with a stun and a backstab into explo (as an example). That missing backstab is very noticeable.

One other thing for concealment... the hot is only marginally useful. The spec is about burst, but to survive you have to use two globals setting that hot up. Escaping away is often ineffectual because the hot heals too slowly to be a quick way to get back into the fight (i want my big heal back). Concealment NEEDS a way to cast those probes from stealth (self only).

 

Lethality... survives better, but can't kill anything. The dots hit for crap, and cull (or whatever it is now) lacks punch when hitting targets with 45k health. Sure, I can heal for 360 a match by rolling my way to free hots, and I'll even have some damage numbers that look like I contributed because of all of the splash, but the dots are harmless.

 

Meanwhile smash is back, mercs are shooting everyone while running with Overrides up for half an hour, and half the melee classes seem to have a "heal to full" thing going on so even if you do get them low suddenly the fight is reset (oh but I've got those hots /wrist).

 

Probably going to have to park this toon, which saddens me. Level my sin? Join the juggernaut brigade?

[vennian]

They finally did it. They nerfed operatives. Into oblivion.

 

I agree with your assessment on concealment 100% percent. I will try lethality, but if that doesn't "work" for me, then my operative goes on the shelf.

Edited December 5, 2014 by vennian

[texoc]

I've never felt this squishy. I've never felt this ineffectual. I'll elaborate:

 

For concealment, the burst is gimped. Don't tell me about volatile substance- it's a replacement for explosive. Yes, it hits a little bit harder than explosive did, BUT sometimes it doesn't go when you want/need it to because of the weird interaction with the poisons that is necessary. The real problem is the missing backstab. Yes, I know backstab-from-stealth hits like Hidden Strike used to... but it puts BS on cooldown. Used to be able to follow up a hidden strike/shiv/laceratelacerate series with a stun and a backstab into explo (as an example). That missing backstab is very noticeable.

One other thing for concealment... the hot is only marginally useful. The spec is about burst, but to survive you have to use two globals setting that hot up. Escaping away is often ineffectual because the hot heals too slowly to be a quick way to get back into the fight (i want my big heal back). Concealment NEEDS a way to cast those probes from stealth (self only).

 

Lethality... survives better, but can't kill anything. The dots hit for crap, and cull (or whatever it is now) lacks punch when hitting targets with 45k health. Sure, I can heal for 360 a match by rolling my way to free hots, and I'll even have some damage numbers that look like I contributed because of all of the splash, but the dots are harmless.

 

Meanwhile smash is back, mercs are shooting everyone while running with Overrides up for half an hour, and half the melee classes seem to have a "heal to full" thing going on so even if you do get them low suddenly the fight is reset (oh but I've got those hots /wrist).

 

Probably going to have to park this toon, which saddens me. Level my sin? Join the juggernaut brigade?

 

I have no clue what you are talking about.

 

DPS Operative currently is in the best spot it has ever been in since 1.1. Their survivability might be even better than juggers.

 

Hell, they are even the most broken class right now in solo ranked. I am easily getting 1300+ dps while healing 1000+ hps.

 

They only thing that might rape you is electro net and getting focussed by 2-3 Players at the same time.

Concealment has 100% evade on exfiltrate, you can dodge every single burst Combo in this game and you can negate stuns while your probes crit heal you for 2.8k+.

[FoE_Khorne]

I've never felt this squishy. I've never felt this ineffectual. I'll elaborate:

 

For concealment, the burst is gimped. Don't tell me about volatile substance- it's a replacement for explosive. Yes, it hits a little bit harder than explosive did, BUT sometimes it doesn't go when you want/need it to because of the weird interaction with the poisons that is necessary. The real problem is the missing backstab. Yes, I know backstab-from-stealth hits like Hidden Strike used to... but it puts BS on cooldown. Used to be able to follow up a hidden strike/shiv/laceratelacerate series with a stun and a backstab into explo (as an example). That missing backstab is very noticeable.

One other thing for concealment... the hot is only marginally useful. The spec is about burst, but to survive you have to use two globals setting that hot up. Escaping away is often ineffectual because the hot heals too slowly to be a quick way to get back into the fight (i want my big heal back). Concealment NEEDS a way to cast those probes from stealth (self only).

 

Lethality... survives better, but can't kill anything. The dots hit for crap, and cull (or whatever it is now) lacks punch when hitting targets with 45k health. Sure, I can heal for 360 a match by rolling my way to free hots, and I'll even have some damage numbers that look like I contributed because of all of the splash, but the dots are harmless.

 

Meanwhile smash is back, mercs are shooting everyone while running with Overrides up for half an hour, and half the melee classes seem to have a "heal to full" thing going on so even if you do get them low suddenly the fight is reset (oh but I've got those hots /wrist).

 

Probably going to have to park this toon, which saddens me. Level my sin? Join the juggernaut brigade?

 

This is an l2p issue. Out of the first 15 lvl 60 warzones i played, I died a grand total of 6 times... with no healer on my team most of the time.

 

Heres something that proves it #confirmed leet dps

 

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=28lgty1&s=8#.VIGj0jHF86U spooky m8

 

 

Being able to do 1200+ dps and 1k hps while evading all atttacks 3 out of every 10 seconds is great for regs... Waiting to see if it will play out in ranked 4s. I did pretty well in yolo queues last night though

Edited December 6, 2014 by FoE_Khorne

[ishbindeinvater]

I guess it's L2P and I don't mean that in a bad way.

 

1:1 it's a killer while, when this utility is taken, you get 50 percent damage first 10 secs no one can really harm you. And you can do that 2 times. The opening sequence hits really hard and the sustained is better than other classes sustained. And you can do it 2 times. You don't even need a stun for that. Just take those 1/2 damage hits. With just rolling you evade most attacks 3/10 secs, and you still have flash bang to heal to full and other skills.

I think that this spec is even kind of OP 1:1

 

In group it's ok. You have a lot of control and healing and can escape almost every situation with rolling around a corner and heal, or vanish, or flash bang, or escape.....

 

Play marauder and come back complaining :-)

[-Holmes]

I guess it's L2P and I don't mean that in a bad way.

 

1:1 it's a killer while, when this utility is taken, you get 50 percent damage first 10 secs no one can really harm you. And you can do that 2 times. The opening sequence hits really hard and the sustained is better than other classes sustained. And you can do it 2 times. You don't even need a stun for that. Just take those 1/2 damage hits. With just rolling you evade most attacks 3/10 secs, and you still have flash bang to heal to full and other skills.

I think that this spec is even kind of OP 1:1

 

In group it's ok. You have a lot of control and healing and can escape almost every situation with rolling around a corner and heal, or vanish, or flash bang, or escape.....

 

Play marauder and come back complaining :-)

 

Flashbang heal2full? Pretty sure we're talking about NOT being a healer, meaning you'd only get SRMP and that heal that requires TA and has a CD(which I always forget the name of).

 

Still, with SRMP, operadrels have a lot more survivability, at least compared to what they used to have. Sure, I miss revitalisers, but if I wanted everything I should have rolled PT/Sin/Jugg.

[fire-breath]

Personally i never liked it that some classes are able to burst someone down to 30%HP without a chance of the enemy to respond. Seems just kinda silly to me.

[ishbindeinvater]

Flashbang heal2full? Pretty sure we're talking about NOT being a healer, meaning you'd only get SRMP and that heal that requires TA and has a CD(which I always forget the name of).

 

Still, with SRMP, operadrels have a lot more survivability, at least compared to what they used to have. Sure, I miss revitalisers, but if I wanted everything I should have rolled PT/Sin/Jugg.

 

Kolto infusion and the probes are quite heal to full. Let's say you can heal a lot and are back in with hots ticking on you.

 

There are utilities like the heal on shield probe and heal on stim boost too (didn't take the stim boost utility though).

 

In 1:1 I beat the jugg and PT and a madness sin (purges) when I open on them, what's almost ever the case in 1:1. And you forgot the sorc on your list. I tried out almost every class except sniper and merc in 3.0 and they all play well. In group PVp PTs are beasts, sorc too.

 

Just my marauder.... He hits hard but he dies soooo fast

[-Holmes]

Kolto infusion and the probes are quite heal to full. Let's say you can heal a lot and are back in with hots ticking on you.

 

There are utilities like the heal on shield probe and heal on stim boost too (didn't take the stim boost utility though).

 

In 1:1 I beat the jugg and PT and a madness sin (purges) when I open on them, what's almost ever the case in 1:1. And you forgot the sorc on your list. I tried out almost every class except sniper and merc in 3.0 and they all play well. In group PVp PTs are beasts, sorc too.

 

Just my marauder.... He hits hard but he dies soooo fast

 

You wouldn't h2f within the 8 seconds of a flashbang, but yeah, with SRMP the fight can really stretch, particularly against classes like sins who don't have a reliable self heal.

[Adovir]

Gunna hit 60 and used my com stacks to boost my PVP gear( got like 5k regs and max ranked) but what I've seen now we're in a pretty decent place. The jungles of rishi and yavin are littered with dead players from those I've ganked, no they're not just PVE geared scrubs but I've killed many PVP geared ppl and 1 or 2 PVP lvl 60's(employing dirty tricks of course).

[Haystak]

Ruffian feels to weak ability wise to be useful in any situation, other than spreading dots, and harrassing an enemy. Im not claiming thorough knowledge, but I am having a hard time using it in warzones. I need to learn 2 play it better. Its just a completely different class outright.

 

Scrapper has some burst when things go right, but it also has some wonky mechanics, which can really hamper the success of the class. I never expected Blood Boiler to hit for 12-13k and its awesome when it does, but then their are times when I expect it to go off, and nothing happens, for like 7 seconds. Combat control is still hard to manage for me. The requirement of shank shot to be within 4 meters is something to get used to, and other classes still seem to have abilities that completely trump my own in terms of combat control. 1v1 my parity is still shadows/sins, they are very potent right now.

 

Is nice to use sedatives and surprise comeback though. seeing a sin use recklessness, and crit for 1.3k is funny as hell.

 

Sawbones wasnt really nerfed into the ground utility wise for pvp. For pve, you start to feel the pain, as your really less potent in raids than a trooper or a sage. Healers will still be seen rolling around in warzones, and if the enemy wants to leave you alone, you can still pump out a crap ton of heals, as not having to move, and being able to use kolto waves can really start to add up.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Haystak

[KyoMamoru]

Due to the changes to Frag Grenade, it's considered a single target prior to the AOE being ticked off. This means it'll be reflected.

[Adovir]

Ruffian feels to weak ability wise to be useful in any situation, other than spreading dots, and harrassing an enemy. Im not claiming thorough knowledge, but I am having a hard time using it in warzones. I need to learn 2 play it better. Its just a completely different class outright.

 

Scrapper has some burst when things go right, but it also has some wonky mechanics, which can really hamper the success of the class. I never expected Blood Boiler to hit for 12-13k and its awesome when it does, but then their are times when I expect it to go off, and nothing happens, for like 7 seconds. Combat control is still hard to manage for me. The requirement of shank shot to be within 4 meters is something to get used to, and other classes still seem to have abilities that completely trump my own in terms of combat control. 1v1 my parity is still shadows/sins, they are very potent right now.

 

Is nice to use sedatives and surprise comeback though. seeing a sin use recklessness, and crit for 1.3k is funny as hell.

 

Sawbones wasnt really nerfed into the ground utility wise for pvp. For pve, you start to feel the pain, as your really less potent in raids than a trooper or a sage. Healers will still be seen rolling around in warzones, and if the enemy wants to leave you alone, you can still pump out a crap ton of heals, as not having to move, and being able to use kolto waves can really start to add up.

 

Leth definatly has some problems right now, I play leth a lot and it definatly does feel any where near as strong as pre3.0. I think this is because they:

increased the CD on shield probe

Removed the cd reduction on shield probe

Removed 30s cd reduct on CC breaker

Removed the 30%shield probe boost

Removed weak DoTs forcing you to reapply DoTs as a higher priority

 

That's all I can think off my head

[unK_]

I played lethality before 3.0 and it was squishy, needed a lot of micromanaging to be somewhat viable etc., but at least if you picked your targets right, you could eliminate people with chain culling quite effectively. Now we are just as squishy, but we can't kill anything due to the bigger health pools.

 

Then I tried concealment and it was horrible. Granted, I don't play it so it may be that I just suck at it, but this time the problem was not the damage (actually, concealment's damage is quite awesome), it's getting to the enemy that is the problem. You go out of stealth, are immediately knocked back 20m (did then buff knockbacks?), then either rooted, slowed or netted repeatedly and you die. 100% dodge on roll is great in theory, but when you can't even move due to controlling effects, you go down almost instantly.

Edited December 8, 2014 by unK_

[QuiveringPotato]

I played lethality before 3.0 and it was squishy, needed a lot of micromanaging to be somewhat viable etc., but at least if you picked your targets right, you could eliminate people with chain culling quite effectively. Now we are just as squishy, but we can't kill anything due to the bigger health pools.

 

Then I tried concealment and it was horrible. Granted, I don't play it so it may be that I just suck at it, but this time the problem was not the damage (actually, concealment's damage is quite awesome), it's getting to the enemy that is the problem. You go out of stealth, are immediately knocked back 20m (did then buff knockbacks?), then either rooted, slowed or netted repeatedly and you die. 100% dodge on roll is great in theory, but when you can't even move due to controlling effects, you go down almost instantly.

 

This is why the rootbreak on countermeasures utility is a good thing.