Slinger/Sniper - Survivability ISSUE!

[BaineOs]

Only thing I'd point out Crycc is some people (like myself) aren't leaving the class just because of the defensive issues. Obviously this is based on my opinion rather than anyone else's but the issues with engineering/saboteur go way beyond the lack of defensive capabilities we both know the class has. They really did mess up big time there.

 

Keep going though dude, hope this thread of yours produces some results, snipers could do with a bit of love.

[Darth__Reaver]

Nah, it's not crying at all. I'm doing a gentle approach here and I'm just trying to show BW possible solutions for the problems Slingers/Snipers have in PvP, and I mean PvP in general.

 

Like I said, at the moment, playing a Slinger/Sniper in PvP is not fun at all and it should concern BW that one of their classes is performing really bad in PvP and also that players quit the class and reroll.

The Slinger/Sniper class needs help and I'm trying to help BW in order for them to help the class and make us all happy Slingers/Snipers again.

 

I hope they pay attention to this thread and the issue the class has.

 

No I was joking I completely agree with you. Idk what happened to snipers cuz i don't play one but they seem way too easy to kill. Ones ive faced were already geared where I only have one piece of the new pvp set. I feel you pain man it's like queing solo as a dps merc all these seasons... But we pick our class/spec for a reason right? We just love to play them

[Tonev]

I gave up on Snipers in the PTS server when I pleaded with developers for those changes not to go live for PvP, I almost started to break the EULA and let the cat out the bag on the Sniper forums Look at my past thread on "Starting to worry.".

 

The majority of the Sniper changes were put in based on PvE not PvP, I knew this and again, debated with other PvPers, possible PvErs who said the changes were good and headed in the right direction for the Sniper class.

 

After testing the changes in duels and in WZ 8 vs 8 and 4 vs 4 for about 2 weeks, I logged off and made my Sorc and Sage.

 

Don't blame the devs for this change, blame this on the people who tested this and said this was fine ( I was not one of these people during the 3.0 class changes).

[BaineOs]

Perhaps those pve'rs should be named, shamed before being lined up and shot because they obviously didn't have a clue what they were talking about.

 

The changes to engineering are beyond belief and for what? Just so they can get a higher parse as they were so used to stupidly using roll in place?

 

Frag grenade aoe removal plus putting the cooldown up to 6 secs

Plasma probe having a major utility nerf in having it's duration halved that's in addition to the front loading nerf in 2.10

EMP discharge loosing all resets on defensive skills

Edit: Then of course there's the interrogation probe/plasma probe stun.

 

Those three (edit: four) changes individually are not insurmountable (although I'm straining a lot saying that with the change to EMP discharge). However having all those things put together completely changes the engineering spec. It used to be a lot of fun, a very unique playstyle. Now all the fun has been entirely removed and as a direct result is no longer a unique playstyle.

 

At the very least, the absolute bare minimum change engineering requires is a reset on covered escape and shield probe. After that should be the return of plasma probe to 18 secs duration. They can make other changes to make plasma probe more effective without nerfing it's utility into the ground. As I said that's the bare minimum and even then the spec would still have issues.

 

There was never a problem in dealing damage in pvp with engineering, there was never really a problem in surviving with the spec. Sure the spec was a bit clunky but it worked really well and literally only required a few tweaks not a complete revamp which has ended up making it ten times worse. Lethality might have been the better spec for Crycc in arena but a well played engineering sniper could also do a decent job (that's not dissing Crycc in the slightest hopefully he knows what I'm getting at).

 

Crycc, the one idea I've had is what about some sort of skill to reset the cooldown on shield probe, covered escape and entrench (maybe not entrench but worth considering, cooldown can be changed) for all three specs? I can't see us ever getting any healing type skill any time soon and the shield probe does have possibilities. Covered Escape provides benefits to all three specs in their own way and adds a lot of fun in the process.

 

Obviously I'm trying to think of a way to get the fun back into engineering that's my priority but the mechanics of emp discharge pre 3.0 has possibilities for the other specs as well.

Edited December 6, 2014 by BaineOs

[BeatTheBox]

A message from Sibek Korin

 

Greetings, "friends", I am Sibek Korin, one of the few all-galaxy gunslingers/snipers that isn't a crybaby. Now, I see that ya'll are complainin' about that there gunslinger and sniper class, what with ya'll thinkin' it's "squishy" and what-not. I gotta' say, ya'll are either illiterate or just plain bad at the class, cus' really this patch has been a wonderful buff, what with the 75% damage reduction to all yellow damage during dodge, and how all the defensive buffs come from the different trees just ta' name a few things. I'm guessin' you folks are the latter, ya' know, the ones who don't know how to play what is literally the easiest class in the game. You think you have it bad, but I'm guessin' you don't see how absurd our damage output is now, and how our defense has been buffed substantially when compared to pre-3.0. Oh, and buddy, ain't nothin' hurt more than reading those suggestions, not even Sonic the Hedgehog Fan-Fiction. I'm sure most of you don't know me, so I clearly can't know what i'm talking about, but maybe... just maybe... I'm actually right and Sniper/Gunslinger is far better off now than it was before. It's also quite irritating that you folks claim that since you don't enjoy the class anymore it should be changed, if people claim the class isn't fun to them it should not, and does not matter. That's about all that I care to write currently, although there's plenty more I wished to say, but i'm not sure those things would be allowed on the forums.

Toodles.

P.S: Oh, I have a suggestion to buff the class. (Imperial doo-hickey/Republic Whatcha-macallit): Everytime you take damage while in cover you instantly fly up into the air in your Xs/Phantom and auto kill everyone around you, then you let the wookie/rakghoul win.

[BaineOs]

Wonderful buff you say, three whole seconds you say. Of course I see the error of my ways and will immediately go level Es'carli up and wreck havoc upon my enemies!!

 

Yeah, sorry to burst that dudes bubble and all but he's clearly not getting it. Putting all the defensive talents from the old skill trees and putting them on the utility section does not make a substantial buff. It also doesn't preserve the playstyle of engineering.

[VdFExarKun]

Wonderful buff you say, three whole seconds you say. Of course I see the error of my ways and will immediately go level Es'carli up and wreck havoc upon my enemies!!

 

Yeah, sorry to burst that dudes bubble and all but he's clearly not getting it. Putting all the defensive talents from the old skill trees and putting them on the utility section does not make a substantial buff. It also doesn't preserve the playstyle of engineering.

 

Don't mind him, he is a confirmed troll.

 

I got one or two more ideas I'll share either today or tomorrow. One of them is something that is bothering me since a long time.

[Technohic]

There is part of me that thinks something isn't right as a lot of times, I melt in 4 seconds to one enemy and others I manage to hold out on a node as a sacrificial lamb to 3 or 4 people long enough for help to arrive. Sorcs and PTs hit me pretty hard, sins don't seem to hit as hard as they did but seem a lot more durable. Maybe its the specs. Maybe its the gear. Maybe Im bad.

[Adanezhel]

Hello everyone, i would like to share with u my opinion about 3.0 Patch survivability of the Slinger/Sniper. I have reached lvl 60 with my main character (sniper) and i have played several wz and rwz to try out new changes. I join in a wz and i find a lot of overpowered changes in other classes like "Enhanced Paralytics" (powertech), "through power" (jugger), "emersion" (new on sins) or "dark stability" (sins). However, my evasion no longer purge dots, shileld probe cd is longer, explosive probe ONLY for engineering (and also engineering is a totally ******** with EMP discharge changes) and armour reduction only available on marksmanship snipers. I know that explosive probe + ambush/cull (both auto-critical hit) would be a little overpowered with the laze target changes, but the nerf to evasion makes no sense. It seems such as bioware looks only at PVE, oh wait, what a surprise...

 

So we got nerfed our poor survivability while other classes got buffed, we still can deal a lot of dmg yes but we need ENDURANCE (and i dont mean the stat^^), maybe that heal while shield probe would be very nice Cryyc, or cover pulse out of cover, or roll bug fixed. Anyway i think that we need a new DCD to survive in rwz because as everybody knows, guns/sniper are always main focus, all people know how easy to kill they are. I would suggest 2.9 evasion and diversion back and a new DCD like reflection or cloack of pain. Moreover, i would also suggest something to deal with the huge immunity to movement impairing effects in all classes, since sorcs/sages, sins and juggs are practically impossible to kill in 1vs1 fight. (sages kitting all the time, jugg with 3 lifes, sins with coward phase walk and 2 free sec of force shroud while force cloack, etc...)

 

The only good thing in this patch for snipers is the laze target reborn, "siege bunker" for all disciplines and "series of snares". Also i want to suggest a little change to ballistic shield, something similar to first boss mechanic on SaV operation, the ballistic shield should follow the character whatever he moves while its duration.

 

I hope to see u soon on rwz cryyc, regards from Kazhart ^^

[Kalliadies]

I havent made it to lvl 60 pvp yet (still sitting on 59) but I have been doying well vs all in regs. Our defensive cool downs are great and we have plenty of them BUT whereas we can only slow down the damage we take, while face tanking it. All other classes have a way a either disengaging completely, Kiting OR self health recovery.

 

As a a sniper we cant disengage only displace. We can kite, we just dont have great freedom to do so, we dont have a substantial health return (oh **** button). this is why in 4v4s we get focused down first, because we are reliably going to be sitting in one spot to be beat on (with the exception of roll) and can only mitigate damage, not recover our own health.

 

the only way I can see to solve this probelm is by giving us a self heal of some sort OR a complete disengage.

 

Utility

 

Diversion - Ghost Tactics: sniper deploys defensive smoke to conceal his position, while the sniper remains within the smoke screen, he is invisible and takes 50% less damage from all attacks until he leaves the smoke screen. The sniper becomes visable for 1.5 seconds everytime he attacks. (this is just a suggestion But it would provied a complete disenage option with the limitation that people will still know where you will be at the end of the ability.

 

First strike - Using laze target Out of combat, initiates Stealth generator, Causing the sniper to remain hidden, the next attack will be precise and ignore armor. also When out of combat laze targets cool down is reduced to zero. (This isnt a disengage, but a sniper can chose when to become a target.

 

Vital regulators - 2% every 3 seconds (100% buff). When sniper uses Adrenaline probe, he heals for 3% of his max health every . 5 seconds. lasts for 5 seconds.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Kalliadies

[kvandertulip]

We really need the purge from Dodge back. We need Hotwired Defense in Tier 1. We need a 30% dot DR utility for all specs. Hightail It while rooted would be nice too.

 

And PLEASE PLEASE do not wait 6 patches to buff survivability. This was suppose to be the patch that fixed survivability.

 

That being said I really think we are better off overall in 3.0, problems with Saboteur aside. Damage seems in a really good spot, and I really like the changes to Diversion. It takes the sting out of melee burst pretty well and gives us the area denial back that we lost with the Flyby nerf.

 

Edit: No one cares about PVE survivability for dps. That should not be the reason for holding snipers and slingers back in PVP.

Edited December 6, 2014 by kvandertulip

[Baalzamon]

I agree with the 30% dot dam reduction would be really nice.

[VdFExarKun]

We are open to hearing the community’s ideas here. Specifically, what would the community like to see done that increases the Gunslinger’s/Sniper’s survivability in PvP without increasing their survivability in PvE?

 

Ok, you are asking for Ideas. I think I got another one which could have been done a long time ago to help the Slinger/Sniper class.

 

Everybody knows Ballistic Dampers right? You get 3 charges that absorb 30% damage each right? 3 Charges that get eaten by DoTs right away right? In order for you to regain Ballistic Dampers you have to get out of cover and back into it again right? Can do so every 6 seconds right? Which Slinger/Sniper lives that long to get Ballistic Dampers again right?

You know, Ballistic Dampers are bothering me for a long time now and I don't know about you, but I think a little revamp of the ability is due. A change that doesn't require from us to get out of our cover and back in to get something that helps us to survive.

The Cover is essential to the Slinger/Sniper class and yet for one of our defensive abilities we have to move out of cover to regain that defense? And doing that with all the pressure on this class in PvP?

This is kinda weird don't you think?

 

So, I thought about how to change this and came up with this idea...

 

Revamped Skillful Utility

Ballistic Dampers (GS) / Ballistic Dampers (S) :

Passive

Entering Cover grants 5 charges of Ballistic Dampers. Each charge absorbs 25% of the damage dealt by an incoming attack. This effect cannot occur more than once each second. Ballistic Dampers only absorb damage while being in Cover and 1 charge of Ballistic Dampers is replenished every 8 seconds (does not require to be in Cover to be replenished).

 

This change would improve Ballistic Dampers, giving Slinger/Sniper 2 more charges in case our currently 3 charges are eaten very fast by DoTs (maybe even tiny damage DoTs) and because of that reducing the amount of absorbed damage by 5% from 30% to 25%. Furthermore remove the requirement to regain Ballistic Dampers by exiting cover and going back into it, instead have Ballistic Dampers replenish themselves 1 charge every 8 seconds while you are in Cover and out of Cover and keep them on the buff bar visible and ofc Ballistic Dampers would only have an effect when you are in Cover. It's kinda like Entrench.

Edited December 7, 2014 by VdFExarKun

[KingKalbo]

]Ok, you are asking for Ideas. I think I got another one which could have been done a long time ago to help the Slinger/Sniper class.

 

Everybody knows Ballistic Dampers right? You get 3 charges that absorb 30% damage each right? 3 Charges that get eaten by DoTs right away right? In order for you to regain Ballistic Dampers you have to get out of cover and back into it again right? Can do so every 6 seconds right? Which Slinger/Sniper lives that long to get Ballistic Dampers again right?

You know, Ballistic Dampers are bothering me for a long time now and I don't know about you, but I think a little revamp of the ability is due. A change that doesn't require from us to get out of our cover and back in to get something that helps us to survive.

The Cover is essential to the Slinger/Sniper class and yet for one of our defensive abilities we have to move out of cover to regain that defense? And doing that with all the pressure on this class in PvP?

This is kinda weird don't you think?

 

So, I thought about how to change this and came up with this idea...

 

Revamped Skillful Utility

Ballistic Dampers (GS) / Ballistic Dampers (S) :

Passive

Entering Cover grants 5 charges of Ballistic Dampers. Each charge absorbs 25% of the damage dealt by an incoming attack. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1 second. Ballistic Dampers can only be gained while in Cover and are replenished every 10 (or maybe 15?) seconds.

 

This change would improve Ballistic Dampers, giving Slinger/Sniper 2 more charges in case our currently 3 charges are eaten by DoTs and because of that reducing the amount of absorbed damage by 5% from 30% to 25%. Furthermore remove the requirement to regain Ballistic Dampers by exiting cover and going back into it, instead have Ballistic Dampers replenish themselves while being in cover every 10 (or maybe 15?) seconds and ofc you would lose all of your charges when you go or are knocked out of cover[/color].

 

You do realize that BW is making a move to make us a non-cover dependant AC right? Many of us jumped on the bandwagon after realizing( And I think you were of the same mind too) That the cover mechanic was crap in arena play. We complained BW replied. They took most of our buttons off cover. That said they just didn't change the abilities available to buff that playstyle. IMHO..quite the oversight.

 

Cover is useless in 3.0; it's a dead mechanic given you have no tools whatsoever after most all the other AC's have been given immunities and massive ways to close the gap on you damnit near instantly and stay on you.(Shaddup Maras I know yur situation already). Legshot..Useless . Flashbang..Useless. Roll...Only in yur dreams. Think about what what you are asking for here..more of the same? More of what made us useless in ranked unless we were brain-dead enough to just keep queueing massively to eke out a rating. I don't have that kinda time I work for a living. You can't really even compete in 60's regs. Slingers/Snipes were a dying breed because of cover and now they are completely dead.

 

....Except..BW took that 1st step to moving us foreward to fit in their META. Run and gun..Get with the program..not that they will listen but maybe you should suggest comprehensive defensives that don't revolve around a "Sitting Duck" playstyle; that hasn't been relevant for the last 2 years. Unless you just enjoy being a target of way too easy opportunity and free kill to all.

[VdFExarKun]

I changed the OP and updated the first idea(s).

 

How about we change Shield Probe a little bit and give the Slingers/Snipers something to heal themselves?

 

Currently the amount of absorbed damage by Shield Probe is only 30%, pre 3.0 you could increase it up to 40% with set bonus.

I played Lethality for a very long time and played A LOT of PvP, the 30% of Shield Probe were in the Lethality tree before 3.0 and ofc I had the set bonus, so I was running around with 40%. It helped in PvP but then again it was not enough and that is why I suggest to increase the amount of absorbed damage by Shield Probe by 50%.

Sounds a lot right? Well the thing is, I was also thinking of another utility, a new one, which would benefit from this buff of Shield Probe in order to be useful.

That would be a selfhealing utility. An utility that replaces the utility Vital Regulators, the one that heals you by 1% of your max HP every 3 seconds, which you only take in PvP to get your relics to proc and not to be healed.

Sorry to say that but this Vital Regulators utility is crap.

I'd rather see something new, something that gives us health back by a larger amount, something that is also tied to one of our other abilities and an utility and I came up with the utility called Regenerating Shields, which you can find below.

 

How about these two ideas...

 

Improved Skillful Utiliy

Hotwired Defenses (GS) / Augmented Shields (S) : (moved to Skillful Utilities)

Passive

Increases the amount of damage absorbed by Shield Probe by 50%.

 

AND

 

New Masterful Utiliy

Regenerating Screen (GS) / Regenerating Shields (S) : (replacing Vital Regulators and moved to Masterful Utilities)

Passive

Everytime you get hit by a direct attack (everything except DoTs) while Shield Probe is active, you will be healed for 50% of the absorbed damage. This effect cannot occur more than once each second.

 

I think these two ideas would improve survivability of Slingers/Snipers in PvP a lot and it wouldn't affect PvE since Slingers/Snipers are probably going to take offensive utilities to increase their DPS.

Also for PvE Slingers/Snipers to benefit from the selfheal, they would also need to take the improved Augmented Shields utility in order for them to get larger heals and I can't really see PvE Slingers/Snipers that do OPs in any Mode to take 2 utilities that solely increase your survivability and especially a selfheal that only heals you when you take direct damage. Unless you want to tank as a Slinger/Sniper in PvE.

Imo there are better utilities to take for PvE.

[VdFExarKun]

You do realize that BW is making a move to make us a non-cover dependant AC right? Many of us jumped on the bandwagon after realizing( And I think you were of the same mind too) That the cover mechanic was crap in arena play. We complained BW replied. They took most of our buttons off cover. That said they just didn't change the abilities available to buff that playstyle. IMHO..quite the oversight.

 

Cover is useless in 3.0; it's a dead mechanic given you have no tools whatsoever after most all the other AC's have been given immunities and massive ways to close the gap on you damnit near instantly and stay on you.(Shaddup Maras I know yur situation already). Legshot..Useless . Flashbang..Useless. Roll...Only in yur dreams. Think about what what you are asking for here..more of the same? More of what made us useless in ranked unless we were brain-dead enough to just keep queueing massively to eke out a rating. I don't have that kinda time I work for a living. You can't really even compete in 60's regs. Slingers/Snipes were a dying breed because of cover and now they are completely dead.

 

....Except..BW took that 1st step to moving us foreward to fit in their META. Run and gun..Get with the program..not that they will listen but maybe you should suggest comprehensive defensives that don't revolve around a "Sitting Duck" playstyle; that hasn't been relevant for the last 2 years. Unless you just enjoy being a target of way too easy opportunity and free kill to all.

 

If they really want to get rid of the Cover mechanic then wouldn't it had make sense to give the Slingers/Snipers an utility like Force Mobility or so?

And also maybe change all the other stuff for what you require cover? Like Ballistic Dampers, Vital Regulators, Snap Shot, Cover Screen, Seek Cover, Stroke of Genius indirectly, Siege Bunker, Deployed Shields and also making Orbital Strike and Suppressive Fire only usable while in Cover.

 

That doesn't look like they want to change Slinger/Sniper to be a class that is not reliable on Cover.

 

Furthermore making some of our damage abilities usable while not being in Cover was probably done to give Slingers/Snipers more mobility and also maybe to compensate for Diversion or so.

Edited December 6, 2014 by VdFExarKun

[BaineOs]

KingKalbo, the thing with snipers is for the large part it is very very easy to sit in cover and just shell out damage. By our very nature it doesn't make it easy (lol stay with me there ) to learn how to use the defensive skills. People see us as a pure damage class so what do you need with defences? Granted a lot of people don't see it like that but if that's the case why is it a lot of snipers I see in warzones are just awful at surviving but not bad at attacking?

 

That's what has always made the class interesting and something to tell the good players from the ok to the damn right awful. Cover is exactly as you have said but it's something I wouldn't ever want changed. Yes it brings problems and make it difficult to balance properly what with all the skills other classes have.

 

The long and short of it is people have been complaining about cc since time began but that's exactly what the sniper has relied upon in order to survive. The two simply aren't compatible so with every feature that gives classes cc counters it hurts snipers ten fold. That doesn't mean to say we should loose our identity (not saying that that's what you've said but just putting it out there).

Edited December 6, 2014 by BaineOs

[KingKalbo]

If they really want to get rid of the Cover mechanic then wouldn't it had make sense to give the Slingers/Snipers an utility like Force Mobility or so?

And also maybe change all the other stuff for what you require cover? Like Ballistic Dampers, Vital Regulators, Snap Shot, Cover Screen, Seek Cover, Stroke of Genius indirectly, Siege Bunker, Deployed Shields and also making Orbital Strike and Suppressive Fire only usable while in Cover

 

As I said in previous: IMHO they Changed us and left out the defensives to make it work. Right now the mechanics work something like; go into cover to proc such and such defensive/ attack that activates upon leaving entering cover. This cannot work both ways is what I'm seeing; meaning we can do one or the other; be a cover hugger or strafing lil bad-***. with the tools to keep us on our feet. You want cover to work with the buffs sorcs, jugs, OP PT's and sins got?; gonna need tank level defences. Sitting down amidst that poop-storm and coming up with the same non-working defences isn't the way to go is my opinion. Your a visible, stuck in place, target. You will get focused hard and blown out for being that and any buffs to stay that way will only get nerf cries from those same AC's.

 

Better to join the masses and get on the move and stay that way with comprehensive defences to fit that style. I feel the removal of the cover requirement for many of our attacks was BW's 1st step toward that. Yearn for the days of launch when you were a tank/ melee killer while reclining and keeping most peeps away with cc's..but it is not gonna work ( you can't even scratch a jug anymore)...my opinion anyway.

 

It is a step. it's up to us to make what we will of it

[Kalliadies]

....Except..BW took that 1st step to moving us foreward to fit in their META. Run and gun..Get with the program..not that they will listen but maybe you should suggest comprehensive defensives that don't revolve around a "Sitting Duck" playstyle; that hasn't been relevant for the last 2 years. Unless you just enjoy being a target of way too easy opportunity and free kill to all.

 

I do agree with you that the sitting duck playstyle is what is holding us back, But at the same time I would rather keep that as the defining playstyle. We already have mercenaries for mobility.

 

That being said, Sitting duck playstyle has to be managed in a way that provides powerful characteristics if it is to be desireable. Mobile classes are superior because they can kite and los while hitting hard. So in order for a stationary class to be viable they would need the ability to manage focus fire and deal With LOS. The New Diversion is a great step into managing the focus fire we recieve while being imobile

 

With that in mind, for a stationary class to work, it has to be able to deal with these inferiorities.

 

Such mechanics could be:

 

Vantage point: While in cover Max range is increased to 40 (trade off, mobility for a high max range)

Infared Optics and Rail Rounds: Snipe, series of shots, cull, take down penetrate all surfaces (NO LOS, shooting through objects as long as they are in range)

 

These 2 abilities serve the purpose of making offensive chase, kiting and los moot to a stationary sniper

 

As for the defensive side, there has to be a powerful deterent to focusing the sniper as they are a sitting duck. This is the difficult part because it has to be powerful against many focusing foes, but not too powerful for a single foe

 

Reflective Shielding - Each charge of Ballistic dampners Consumed Explodes outwards dealing #damage in a small area around the sniper. increases Damage reduction by 8% per enemy hit. the idea here being to deter stacking on the sniper. only problem here is this only deters melee range classes

 

These are just some thoughts of mine

Edited December 6, 2014 by Kalliadies

[KingKalbo]

KingKalbo, the thing with snipers is for the large part it is very very easy to sit in cover and just shell out damage. By our very nature it doesn't make it easy (lol stay with me there ) to learn how to use the defensive skills. People see us as a pure damage class so what do you need with defences? Granted a lot of people don't see it like that but if that's the case why is it a lot of snipers I see in warzones are just awful at surviving but not bad at attacking?

 

That's what has always made the class interesting and something to tell the good players from the ok to the damn right awful. Cover is exactly as you have said but it's something I wouldn't ever want changed. Yes it brings problems and make it difficult to balance properly what with all the skills other classes have.

 

The long and short of it is people have been complaining about cc since time began but that's exactly what the sniper has relied upon in order to survive. The two simply aren't compatible so with every feature that gives classes cc counters it hurts snipers ten fold. That doesn't mean to say we should loose our identity (not saying that that's what you've said but just putting it out there).

 

We have 2 differences of opinion and I respect that. You want to keep cover and force BW to make it work with 3.0... OK I see your point.

 

Me..I want change and change for the better as I see it. What you see as Iconic(cover) I see as a crippling effect. We can't have both cause it's too much to balance around without making snipes/slings OP (Not like they haven't "overbalanced" 4 AC's to meet the demands of the most popular toons). I have a history of trying my damnedest to make sling work as a run&gun playstyle. 3.0 s a step in the right direction as I see it..but only a step. Seems to me the best way to go is to continue this new path and see where it leads us..anything else is just stale.

[kvandertulip]

Cover probably isn't going anywhere. The last thing I would want is this class to become Mando-lite. Edited December 6, 2014 by kvandertulip

[Technohic]

Anyone that wants to get rid of cover should have rolled another class a long time ago.

[Thubb]

I havent made it to lvl 60 pvp yet (still sitting on 59) but I have been doying well vs all in regs. Our defensive cool downs are great and we have plenty of them BUT whereas we can only slow down the damage we take, while face tanking it. All other classes have a way a either disengaging completely, Kiting OR self health recovery.

 

As a a sniper we cant disengage only displace. We can kite, we just dont have great freedom to do so, we dont have a substantial health return (oh **** button). this is why in 4v4s we get focused down first, because we are reliably going to be sitting in one spot to be beat on (with the exception of roll) and can only mitigate damage, not recover our own health.

 

the only way I can see to solve this probelm is by giving us a self heal of some sort OR a complete disengage.

 

Utility

 

Diversion - Ghost Tactics: sniper deploys defensive smoke to conceal his position, while the sniper remains within the smoke screen, he is invisible and takes 50% less damage from all attacks until he leaves the smoke screen. The sniper becomes visable for 1.5 seconds everytime he attacks. (this is just a suggestion But it would provied a complete disenage option with the limitation that people will still know where you will be at the end of the ability.

 

First strike - Using laze target Out of combat, initiates Stealth generator, Causing the sniper to remain hidden, the next attack will be precise and ignore armor. also When out of combat laze targets cool down is reduced to zero. (This isnt a disengage, but a sniper can chose when to become a target.

 

Vital regulators - 2% every 3 seconds (100% buff). When sniper uses Adrenaline probe, he heals for 3% of his max health every . 5 seconds. lasts for 5 seconds.

 

I would really love that diversion.

As it is , the currrent diversion could need some further tweaking. I mean if you use diversion into legshot on a sniper/gs you have basically nullified his defenses 100%( exluding shield probe of course), how many other classes have all their defenses taken away by a single ability?

Edited December 6, 2014 by Thubb

[AlrikFassbauer]

Me..I want change and change for the better as I see it. What you see as Iconic(cover) I see as a crippling effect.

 

Cover is what the class makes unique.

 

This is as if I demanded invisibility should be gone fromShadows - but it makes their class unique as well (yet very hard to counter if you don't see someone who comes out of invisibility, strikes hard, and then disappears again).

 

In my personal opinion, invisibility is so much worse to counter than cover.

[Technohic]

I would really love that diversion.

As it is , the currrent diversion could need some further tweaking. I mean if you use diversion into legshot on a sniper/gs you have basically nullified his defenses 100%( exluding shield probe of course), how many other classes have all their defenses taken away by a single ability?

 

Yeah, diversion being on me making all shooting at me lost the accuracy would be better than it is now, then remove the cover removal thing.