Bring back the Free Skill upgrades

[Capwill]

Dear SWTOR,

I really think it would make the game a lot more enjoyable if you were to bring back the free skill upgrades that you were running when you had the 12X XP going on, because the cost of a lot of getting the skill upgrades are WAY too high in my opinion. It makes it so people have to end of choosing to wait to get a skill upgrade that could really help them in their quests till they get a lot of credits because of the crazy high cost of the upgraded skill. I really found not having to worry about paying for my skill upgrades during that 12X XP event you had helped me a lot in terms of being able to afford new gear for both my companion and I, but now I am having to go back to juggling paying for the insanely high cost of the skill upgrades and the cost of the WAY over priced gear that is in the GTN. That is another thing I think that you should really take a good look at how WAY over priced a lot of people are people items in the GTN, because it makes it so that most people like me can't afford to buy them unless you are crazy enough to go to one of those websites and buy credits which I wouldn't do because I would worry about my account being hacked. But I go back to what I was first talking about I really think it made the game A LOT more enjoyable when I didn't have to worry about paying for skill upgrades or at least cut the cost by at least 80%, because right now they are WAY too high. I really hope you read this and take it into serious consideration, I would be most grateful and again it would make the game in my opinion A LOT more enjoyable to play.

[Feargal]

I never understood paying for skill upgrades. As a credit sink they are ineffective because they are insignificant to the millionaires and billionaires. They act as a disincentive to play for casual and starting players. This is a regressive tax on players with the least ability to pay. i can hear players already saying that it is way to farm credits in the game, and to an extent they are correct, but that is an endgame solution to an early-game problem.

[Capwill]

I agree having to pay for Skill upgrades makes the game not really enjoyable to play because you are thinking that you don't want to level up too quick because you then have to worry about how you are going to pay for the new skill upgrades and that just takes the fun away from actually playing the game. I think all skill upgrades from level 1 to 60 should be free and that would make it so you would look foward again to leveling the game and not worrying about having to raise the credits to pay for any new skill upgrades.

[DOHboy]

I have leveled over a dozen chars, not once has paying for skills made the game not a joy to play. PRE 1.2 you maybe had to save up to afford a lvl 3 speeder and speeder 3 piloting. Maybe your first 50 would require some planing when you basically got an upgrade on every skill you had, but a few dailies at that point covered any cost.

 

Credits are free and extremely easy to earn, the reason for the free skill purchases was to account for the loss of income from additional quests since you may level 2 or 3 levels with a single quest turn in and not have enough credits. Since they have removed that, you will always have enough credits to purchase new skills unless you are spending them, at which point that is YOUR option.

[DoctorBeckett]

/signed

[Feargal]

I have leveled over a dozen chars, not once has paying for skills made the game not a joy to play. PRE 1.2 you maybe had to save up to afford a lvl 3 speeder and speeder 3 piloting. Maybe your first 50 would require some planing when you basically got an upgrade on every skill you had, but a few dailies at that point covered any cost.

 

Credits are free and extremely easy to earn, the reason for the free skill purchases was to account for the loss of income from additional quests since you may level 2 or 3 levels with a single quest turn in and not have enough credits. Since they have removed that, you will always have enough credits to purchase new skills unless you are spending them, at which point that is YOUR option.

 

OK. Taking everything you say as true, what is the -rationale- behind paying for skill upgrades? Even if it -can- be done easily, which I dispute, that doesn't mean it -should- be done. It's a credit sink that disproportionately affects those least able to pay it.

[Phyltr]

OK. Taking everything you say as true, what is the -rationale- behind paying for skill upgrades? Even if it -can- be done easily, which I dispute, that doesn't mean it -should- be done. It's a credit sink that disproportionately affects those least able to pay it.

 

It is a money sink and that's the intent. This video explains it better than I ever could (I promise its not a troll video):

 

[farleyzero]

Its amazing that someone can agree with having skills cost money cause they are intended as a credit sink but whine about stims not being re-usable and not understanding why they are intended as a credit sink them selves lmao

[Phyltr]

Its amazing that someone can agree with having skills cost money cause they are intended as a credit sink but whine about stims not being re-usable and not understanding why they are intended as a credit sink them selves lmao

 

Dude, stop cherry picking. I explained why that isn't actually the issue and why it won't help new players and why its going to cause more people to be Biochem as opposed to less. I don't know why I keep responding to this troll.

 

Also, I didn't say I was for or against it, you're putting words in my mouth simply to pick a fight.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Phyltr

[azudelphi]

Dude, stop cherry picking. I explained why that isn't actually the issue and why it won't help new players and why its going to cause more people to be Biochem as opposed to less. I don't know why I keep responding to this troll.

 

Also, I didn't say I was for or against it, you're putting words in my mouth simply to pick a fight.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but the pivotal reason you commented on the Biochem aspect wasn't the credit sink aspect, but rather creating a disproportionate incentive for end game operation runners to use Biochem characters. If so, to compare this to that is unreasonable.

Edited December 4, 2014 by azudelphi

[Phyltr]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the pivotal reason you commented on the Biochem aspect wasn't the credit sink aspect, but rather creating a disproportionate incentive for end game operation runners to use Biochem characters. If so, to compare this to that is unreasonable.

 

That is correct, I only ever mentioned the credit sink as a possible motivation behind what BW wanted to accomplish with the change. To any rational person reading my post they'll see I focused almost entirely on the fact that they probably will cause more people to pick Biochem not less.

[chosonman]

Surprise another "Bioware please give me an easy button" thread. Let's just go over them all now shall we?

 

- Legacy Datacrons - Too lazy to repeat getting a datacron on another character (BTW they are easy to get all of them in just a few hours)

- Legacy Maps - Too lazy to explore areas again with new character (What's so hard about exploring?)

- Legacy 12xp - Too lazy to actually play the game (This is an MMO not Call of Duty leveling is part of the game and no you don't have the right to lvl 16 character to lvl 60 using 12x xp when there other player who actually played their way to 60 the hard way. It is not fair to them. This is a MMO and a game, you play against other people. Get used to it. Go play Xbox if you don't like having to play with other people)

- Legacy skills for free - To lazy to earn credit to earn perks like skills (You earn credits by playing the game (most of the time) Why should you be allowed to bypass this system just because you're too lazy to grind out some coin?)

 

Just stop the nonsense right now and play the game. If you're too lazy to go play a single player game on your xbox and put in your cheat codes.

Edited December 4, 2014 by chosonman

[Capwill]

Sorry guys I didn't mean to cause any arguments over the issue, I was just hoping that enough people would agree that the skill upgrades costs should go away because in my opinion it takes away a good deal of the fun of the game. I really enjoyed the time during the 12X xp event not because of just the extra XP with class quests,but because of not having to worry about paying for skill upgrades. Again I am sorry if caused any arugments over this. I just really hope that Bioware would see this and take hopefully take it under serious consideration. Edited December 4, 2014 by Capwill

[Capwill]

Surprise another "Bioware please give me an easy button" thread. Let's just go over them all now shall we?

 

- Legacy Datacrons - Too lazy to repeat getting a datacron on another character (BTW they are easy to get all of them in just a few hours)

- Legacy Maps - Too lazy to explore areas again with new character (What's so hard about exploring?)

- Legacy 12xp - Too lazy to actually play the game (This is an MMO not Call of Duty leveling is part of the game and no you don't have the right to lvl 16 character to lvl 60 using 12x xp when there other player who actually played their way to 60 the hard way. It is not fair to them. This is a MMO and a game, you play against other people. Get used to it. Go play Xbox if you don't like having to play with other people)

- Legacy skills for free - To lazy to earn credit to earn perks like skills (You earn credits by playing the game (most of the time) Why should you be allowed to bypass this system just because you're too lazy to grind out some coin?)

 

Just stop the nonsense right now and play the game. If you're too lazy to go play a single player game on your xbox and put in your cheat codes.

Really dude, I have been playing this game since it came out and I am not being lazy at all, in fact I rather level at normal speed to help make the game last longer and get to really understand how to play each of my type of characters to their full potential. All I was saying was that I think that Bioware should make it so that people don't have to pay for the skill upgrades when you are leveling up the character, because then you can use those credits to help pay for new gear for both your comp and yourself. So NO I am not trying to be lazy, I don't know where you are getting the idea that I am trying to be lazy with leveling my characters when I have been leveling all my characters to regular way since the start, in fact I don't even use the experience boots that you can get to get my experience with quests or exploring. So you need to get your facts straight before you start calling people lazy.

[DOHboy]

Sorry guys I didn't mean to cause any arguments over the issue, I was just hoping that enough people would agree that the skill upgrades costs should go away because in my opinion it takes away a good deal of the fun of the game. I really enjoyed the time during the 12X xp event not because of just the extra XP with class quests,but because of not having to worry about paying for skill upgrades. Again I am sorry if caused any arugments over this. I just really hope that Bioware would see this and take hopefully take it under serious consideration.

 

you are missing the point. They put them in for a reason...otherwise why have reward credits at all? They added the "free' to account for the diminished credits from rewards and other missions and items that would normally be acquired from those missions (drops) and the gear you now would have to purchase since you are not gaining gear from other times. Add to the pace at which you out level the gear and you can't even craft yourself gear fast enough. So to offset that pace, they reduced one cost to offset the other. When that resets, so do the costs and game remains balanced

 

And suddenly we have a "we want free stuff back" and your thread is basically "who wants more free stuff?" well yeah nobody is going to be against free stuff unless you understand why it was put in originally, and why it was free for a short time.

[Feargal]

Surprise another "Bioware please give me an easy button" thread. Let's just go over them all now shall we?

 

- Legacy Datacrons - Too lazy to repeat getting a datacron on another character (BTW they are easy to get all of them in just a few hours)

- Legacy Maps - Too lazy to explore areas again with new character (What's so hard about exploring?)

- Legacy 12xp - Too lazy to actually play the game (This is an MMO not Call of Duty leveling is part of the game and no you don't have the right to lvl 16 character to lvl 60 using 12x xp when there other player who actually played their way to 60 the hard way. It is not fair to them. This is a MMO and a game, you play against other people. Get used to it. Go play Xbox if you don't like having to play with other people)

- Legacy skills for free - To lazy to earn credit to earn perks like skills (You earn credits by playing the game (most of the time) Why should you be allowed to bypass this system just because you're too lazy to grind out some coin?)

 

Just stop the nonsense right now and play the game. If you're too lazy to go play a single player game on your xbox and put in your cheat codes.

 

"Unfair to other players who did it the hard way" is always trotted out when suggestions are made that would change or shorten the way things are done.

 

Just because it has been done in the past, there is no reason to continue it if it makes no sense. I maintain that the only thing that paying for skills does is take credits from those least able to afford it. The credits sunk in training are miniscule compared to those spent each day on the GTN by the wealthy old-timers or folks who spend real dollars on CC's to get items to sell. I have no problem with credit sinks, but paying for skills is ineffective in that regard; it takes comparatively few credits out of circulation, and disproportionately burdens the poorest people on the server. That's a disincentive.

 

An example of a progressive credit sink is the commission charged to sell on the GTN. This tax scales with the amount received, so it does not unfairly burden anyone.

 

Paying for skills has never been a good idea, and going forward there is no good reason to keep the old system.

[Capwill]

you are missing the point. They put them in for a reason...otherwise why have reward credits at all? They added the "free' to account for the diminished credits from rewards and other missions and items that would normally be acquired from those missions (drops) and the gear you now would have to purchase since you are not gaining gear from other times. Add to the pace at which you out level the gear and you can't even craft yourself gear fast enough. So to offset that pace, they reduced one cost to offset the other. When that resets, so do the costs and game remains balanced

 

And suddenly we have a "we want free stuff back" and your thread is basically "who wants more free stuff?" well yeah nobody is going to be against free stuff unless you understand why it was put in originally, and why it was free for a short time.

Ok Dohboy

You say that I am missing the point, but in fact it is you who is missing the point about this thread, all I am saying is that having to pay for skill upgrades takes away the fun of the game, because people are too busy worrying about having to raise the credits to pay for their next skill upgrades. It is a small part of the game but it can mean having to choose between getting new gear or paying for your new skill upgrade. The cost of the skill upgrades are in my opinion WAY too high and in fact they are not really necessary in the game,I am just look how they were able to take them out during the 12X XP event and it didn't hurt the game at all in fact it made the game even more fun. I am not one of those people who thinks that Bioware should hand me everything for free, all I am asking them to do is to take away the expense of paying for skill upgrades, because they did it during that extra XP event and the game ran just fine without it. So you should ask around and I bet you people would agree that the game was a lot more enjoyable when you didn't have to pay for skill upgrades.

[CrutchCricket]

The costs are ridiculous. I had a surplus of ~250k from an alt I leveled with 12xp and then deleted and most of that was blown on training after the first level. Oh and after retraining things I had already trained.

 

Brilliant.

 

Having token costs like speeder/planet travel costs you don't even notice is one thing. Having to file for Space Chapter 11 just to not suck is something else. And by the way, were some skills actually rolled back? I haven't really paid attention to the skill levels these abilities say they were at but the number of them is mighty suspicious.

[Andrellma]

No.

 

/5char

[Takfel]

What about the trainers? How would you feel if someone took your income as a convenience to others? You want families to starve for your pleasure??? YOU ANIMAL!!!

 

Honestly, I see no problem with paying for skills. I find games that reflect life in certain areas are more enjoyable. This also teaches youngsters certain aspects of real life before they leave home.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Takfel
incomplete

[DOHboy]

Ok Dohboy

You say that I am missing the point, but in fact it is you who is missing the point about this thread, all I am saying is that having to pay for skill upgrades takes away the fun of the game, because people are too busy worrying about having to raise the credits to pay for their next skill upgrades. It is a small part of the game but it can mean having to choose between getting new gear or paying for your new skill upgrade. The cost of the skill upgrades are in my opinion WAY too high and in fact they are not really necessary in the game,I am just look how they were able to take them out during the 12X XP event and it didn't hurt the game at all in fact it made the game even more fun. I am not one of those people who thinks that Bioware should hand me everything for free, all I am asking them to do is to take away the expense of paying for skill upgrades, because they did it during that extra XP event and the game ran just fine without it. So you should ask around and I bet you people would agree that the game was a lot more enjoyable when you didn't have to pay for skill upgrades.

 

so let me get this straight, the first time you went to a trainer on your very first toon saw it cost 500 credits for your first skill you immediately uninstalled and cancelled your sub due to how unenjoyable it made the game? It was an issue ONCE and only ONCE and that has since been made irrelevant by other means. Back in 1.0 when speeder 3 cost 50k credits and it would cost you at least 2-3x that for a speeder maybe you had a point. But many of us got over that, and that has since been 'nerfed' and made obsolete by CM, legacy, and free stuff (specifically speeders).

 

If you have to save for skills, you are doing it wrong. I'm sorry, L2P

[Capwill]

Really Dohboy

I know how to play the game since I have been playing it since it first came out, but I guess all you care about is starting an arguement , when someone wants to change something in a game you play. The cost of the skill upgrades are WAY too high for the small increase you might get in one of your attacks or spells. I just think that the game would be a lot more enjoyable if you could use the credits that you are wasting on skill upgrades could be use to purchase better gear for both your comp and yourself. I know how to save up my credits to pay for both gear and skill upgrades since I have been doing that in this game and WoW, so don't tell me I don't know how to play the game, when in fact I do. You just think that I am trying to complain because I want everything given to me and that is WRONG, I am willing to work to get the credits that I why I have my Comps out doing gathering skills such as slicing and treasure hunting to help me get my credits up higher and possibly get some really good gear, but I just don't see the need to make the players have to pay for skill upgrades. Since during that 12X Xp event they were free and they didn't take away the enjoyment of the game in fact it made the game better. Just because you like having to pay around 300k credits when you get up to level 58 for your skill upgrades does not mean everyone wants to do that. I think that those credits would be better used to other stuff like maybe Leveling up another character or getting better gear. So I don't see what you have against getting rid of something like the cost of skill upgrades when it would help everyone who plays the game.

[Phyltr]

Well this is happening it seems.

[DoctorBeckett]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7848903#post7848903

 

Nuff said.

~Hawke~

[Zadtro]

Between lvl 55-60 you will spend half a million on credits which was roughly the same as 50-55. I agree there needs to be a credit sink but... that is a little too much. I know MMO's take farming so I have my daily farm to get credits to pay for things but sometimes it would be nice not to loose so much money on lvling. I am not saying free but agree with it being cheaper (being free would be awesome though) =]