Just spent around 50k at the trainer for skills that I already earned.

[KarathAnno]

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

• If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.
  
• We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.
  
• In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.
  

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

 

I was actually okay with the retraining cost until I read this. But the fact that it is so arbitrary bothers me a lot.

 

It is a very obvious, and frankly ridiculous, example of how at times the player experience seems to be a low priority in this game. And while this is not something I will cancel my sub over it reduces my confidence in the development team and the direction of the game.

[TUXs]

I understand the need to retrain. I do NOT understand why I am being charged for it. These were not voluntary changes, and players should not have to pay credits to train their characters back to the same level they were before this change.

 

This "Discipline System Tax" is a bad, bad idea.

 

I gotta agree. I hope Bioware does the right thing and finds a way to compensate players.

 

This wasn't like me respec'ing my skills to do something else...this was 100% forced on me, like hundreds of other changes in the past that have been made for various skills...yet not one of those required me to pay for them, where this one does...and a LOT too.

[DamienRay]

I want to know what game and what dailies these people who claim "it's raining credits" are running. I'm trying to do dailies with half of my tray empty (because I can't afford to train yet) and there ain't no rain here. It's a drought.

[LordArtemis]

Honestly I'm really surprised someone supporting the game like you, also cancelled.

 

 

Seems to me you nailed it:

 

Yea, I just do not want to misjudge the changes because of my foul mood, and I am afraid I will do that. That is why I thought it best to at least step away from the game for a few weeks, maybe a month, to give them time to fix a few bugs and perhaps rethink this decision.

 

I still benefited from 12XP so I don't mind that I paid for early access....that was well worth it. I will still be able to post in the forums for a while. I just think a break is best right now for me.

 

I also find it noteworthy that most folks in the thread are being reasonable, and even some well known champions of the game (not that that is a bad thing) seem to agree this is egregious.

Edited December 4, 2014 by LordArtemis

[tdmaha]

I gotta agree. I hope Bioware does the right thing and finds a way to compensate players.

 

This wasn't like me respec'ing my skills to do something else...this was 100% forced on me, like hundreds of other changes in the past that have been made for various skills...yet not one of those required me to pay for them, where this one does...and a LOT too.

 

I don't understand why people keep posting misleading information. Not all the abilities you are paying for you had before most are upgrades from what you had before. Every Mmo that has an expansion and has new abilities(upgrades) you pay for them.

[tdmaha]

Yea, I just do not want to misjudge the changes because of my foul mood, and I am afraid I will do that. That is why I thought it best to at least step away from the game for a few weeks, maybe a month, to give them time to fix a few bugs and perhaps rethink this decision.

 

I still benefited from 12XP so I don't mind that I paid for early access....that was well worth it. I will still be able to post in the forums for a while. I just think a break is best right now for me.

 

Lol you are quitting over paying for skills? Oh this is priceless!!

[LordArtemis]

Lol you are quitting over paying for skills? Oh this is priceless!!

 

Tdmaha, I don't know if you noticed, but we are trying to have a conversation here. Your attempts to forum PVP here are being ignored for the most part....perhaps you should take your attempts to engage in toxic behavior elsewhere.

 

You seem to be one of the lone wolves in this thread. Most folks seem to agree this is an issue.

 

What I choose to play and not play is none of your concern. Worry about yourself.

Edited December 4, 2014 by LordArtemis

[BenduKundalini]

I don't think you guys understand how many players you're alienating. Or maybe you do, and you think the number of new players will make up for us legacies you'll be losing. I don't know enough about your business to tell you how to run it. I only know I don't like being treated like this, and I will put my money where my mouth is.

 

What doesn't make sense about this is, if they're charging for "new" abilities that are very much like old abilities, then why are we not also being credited for the old abilities we lost?

 

Ideally (and what we all expected was) it should be a zero-sum respec. None of us asked for the skill system to be changed, so why should the customers have to pay (even fake in-game money) for something they forced on us?

 

This!!!

 

I wouldn't mind a DELAY over delivery date. But don't you guys expect us to swallow lies when marketing is pressing the devs to launch a PRODUCT WHICH ISN'T READY.

 

I paid 100k on my knight for a respec I didn't ask for. I have 16 toons.

 

Not a trifle.

[Draylek]

Hey folks,

 

Ok so I have an update on the training/re-training of abilities with the launch of 3.0. With all of the changes that hit with 3.0 to Disciplines, it is intended that there are abilities that need to be trained/re-trained. Here are some of the criteria that could cause this to happen:

• If an existing ability changed, in name or functionality. This could especially affect Disciplines which used to share an overlapping name and set of abilities, such as Lethality Sniper/Operative.
  
• We adjusted at what level you would acquire certain ranks of skills. If you are a character pre-55 you may be training skills at ranks that were previously unavailable.
  
• In some cases we moved abilities from the Base Class to the Advanced Class or vice-versa. This technically means you could have to retrain an ability you already had, since it changed where/how you got it.
  

I had not realized the scope of abilities that would need to be trained or I would have been more proactive in alerting everyone to this prior to 3.0. With this in mind, the need to train/re-train abilities in 3.0 is intended and therefore we are not planning on making any changes at this time. I apologize sincerely for the inconvenience this has caused.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-eric

 

Go **** yourselves.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

-a happy EA customer

[LordArtemis]

I don't think that EM was being disingenuous at all. I think he is simply relaying information as best he can. I am sure if he was properly made aware of this he would have told us.

 

One of the devs failed to tell him about this, and he did not notice the extent of how many abilities would have costs. I think that is the truth of it.

 

Remember folks, EM is not a dev....he is a spokesman for the devs, or more accurately a bridge between us and the devs. He communicates our concerns and reports dev responses or lack thereof.

[Alaskangeek]

Feedback: Very poor decision by BioWare on the prices of re-charging folks for training. Poor decision to leave this in place.

Sad, because I know this will cause some folks to leave.

I want the game to grow, not drive people away.

[tdmaha]

I don't believe you. I expect that most do not believe you. Your reputation here is not exactly stellar Tdmaha.

 

What I see is your need to try and bait others so YOU can report them. But that hasn't worked for you in the past.

 

Some folks never learn.

 

It's alright Tdmaha. I remain confident that your stay here will not likely last. You will, at some point violate the forum rules, be reported, and once again be forced to take a vacation. It is only a matter of time considering your complete lack of self control and lack of respect for the rules that we all follow.

 

If you believe me or not doesn't matter but it's the truth. You never were one who liked facts you didn't agree with as is the case here. Self control lol. Are you kidding? You are quitting a video game because you are angry over having to spend credits on skills! Self control lol too funny. Trust me LordArtemis I am in total control of my actions and at no point have a taken your condescending approach seriously.

 

Posting quitting post is against the rules...I take it when you refer to all follow the rules you are not referring to yourself?

[Code_Airwolf]

LOL @ Draylek !!! Seriously, we need upvote buttons!!!!

 

 

I don't think that EM was being disingenuous at all. I think he is simply relaying information as best he can. I am sure if he was properly made aware of this he would have told us.

 

One of the devs failed to tell him about this, and he did not notice the extent of how many abilities would have costs. I think that is the truth of it.

 

Remember folks, EM is not a dev....he is a spokesman for the devs, or more accurately a bridge between us and the devs. He communicates our concerns and reports dev responses or lack thereof.

 

 

Another good post, I too have enjoyed your posts throughout.

 

I don't think what he said most people have a problem with so much, it was a good explanation about what's going on with the abilities and why needing to train so much, etc etc However, it was what he DIDN'T say.....he completely avoided the COST aspect of it, which is......pretty much what this entire thread is about. A new build force respec and making everyone pay for their skills (again). Lump sum to boot.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Code_Airwolf

[LordArtemis]

LOL @ Draylek !!! Seriously, we need upvote buttons!!!!

 

Another good post, I too have enjoyed your posts throughout.

 

I don't think what he said most people have a problem with so much, it was a good explanation about what's going on with the abilities and why needing to train so much, etc etc However, it was what he DIDN'T say.....he completely avoided the COST aspect of it, which is......pretty much what this entire thread is about. A new build force respec and making everyone pay for their skills (again). Lump sum to boot.

 

Thanks, I appreciate that. I think EM can be the focus of rage often when it is not deserved. He is, after all, just the messenger.

[MSchuyler]

I don't believe you. I expect that most do not believe you. Your reputation here is not exactly stellar Tdmaha.

 

What I see is your need to try and bait others so YOU can report them. But that hasn't worked for you in the past.

 

Some folks never learn.

 

It's alright Tdmaha. I remain confident that your stay here will not likely last. You will, at some point violate the forum rules, be reported, and once again be forced to take a vacation. It is only a matter of time considering your complete lack of self control and lack of respect for the rules that we all follow.

 

I'm not familiar with Tdmaha's posting history, bans, etc. In the case he has presented here, that people are crying over something that ought not be a big deal, I wholeheartedly agree with him. Train the "new" abilities. Bang, you're done. Next? Aren't there other things to worry about? this is a tempest in a teapot. You're worried about 50K? How about paying 50K per skill to be able to craft or gather above 450? Now THAT'S highway robbery!

 

In this case your conversation seems to have devolved into a simple ad hominem attack against the person and his history, completely off-topic for what we are trying to discuss. Perhaps he is doing it, too. In any case, nothing is being accomplished, and from the looks of it, Tdmaha's reputation is not the only one that is suffering. I would have expected better of you Lord Artemis. If you want to stay on topic, lead by example. This isn't it.

[Code_Airwolf]

 

Also, your post is devoid of your current key word...."crying". Your slipping a bit.

 

LOL. I must admit reading through all the nonsense made me feel like I was playing through early level Sith Inquisitor again.....with the repetitious use of the same (attempted) insult word......."slave". I'm going to have to play through again and just imagine him saying "crying" instead in all of the cut scenes. Will be good for a laugh, I'm laughing already at the thought of it.

[Code_Airwolf]

I want to know what game and what dailies these people who claim "it's raining credits" are running. I'm trying to do dailies with half of my tray empty (because I can't afford to train yet) and there ain't no rain here. It's a drought.

 

^ I would like someone to answer this question, it could be beneficial to quite a few stuck right now with power stripped characters needing to obtain the credits to train. As well as a lot of preferred & ftp players who are reading this but can't post.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Code_Airwolf

[tdmaha]

It is not the truth. That much is obvious. And it is you, Tdmaha, that does not like facts.

 

I will compare my self control in the post history to yours any day of the week. I think we both know who demonstrates proper forum behavior and who does not.

 

You say you are in total control. Your lack of respect for forum rules demonstrates otherwise. If you feel my post indicating I am taking a break somehow breaks forum rules, by all means, feel free to report it.

 

I think you will find you are in error.

 

Also, your post is devoid of your current key word...."crying". Your slipping a bit.

 

Really? It's not fact? You are so special you know how I spend my money? Really? I know you think of yourself as some super duper forum poster but again the facts are I've been gone because I wasn't subbed because I was getting ready for WoD.

 

As for reporting im not a coward and have the report button on a macro anytime I disagree with somebody. I've been reported by one person in my time here (well they all had to do with one person maybe his white knights did the reporting) I bet you can guess who that is.

 

Again I know you think you are some super duper poster and want to pound your chest about how awesome you are in these forums but these forums have no barring on me outside of when I'm on them they are 100% for entertainment . I don't need to "compare" my post with condescending quitters like yourself. You hide behind your macro you act like you are above others in the end you are just trying to compensate for something.

[Jadescythe]

^ I would like someone to answer this question, it could be beneficial to quite a few stuck right now with power stripped characters needing obtain credits to train. As well as a lot of preferred players who are reading this but can't post.

 

Unless your characters are experiencing something far different than mine, I only had to purchase 4 or so abilities, a few of which are simply passives that got built into the class instead of having a skill point for them. I easily could have done Black Hole or Oricon just as I would have pre 3.0. Some of the abilities disappeared from my hot bar, but were still in my abilities window to put back on without purchasing them. Others I got back when I selected my discipline and got the 3 abilities tied to it.

[tdmaha]

I'm not familiar with Tdmaha's posting history, bans, etc. In the case he has presented here, that people are crying over something that ought not be a big deal, I wholeheartedly agree with him. Train the "new" abilities. Bang, you're done. Next? Aren't there other things to worry about? this is a tempest in a teapot. You're worried about 50K? How about paying 50K per skill to be able to craft or gather above 450? Now THAT'S highway robbery!

 

In this case your conversation seems to have devolved into a simple ad hominem attack against the person and his history, completely off-topic for what we are trying to discuss. Perhaps he is doing it, too. In any case, nothing is being accomplished, and from the looks of it, Tdmaha's reputation is not the only one that is suffering. I would have expected better of you Lord Artemis. If you want to stay on topic, lead by example. This isn't it.

 

I agree I can come off a little direct sometimes but like I've said I have been reported a few times and banned once. Every infraction I have has to do with ONE person. Luckily that one person is apparently leaving soon so I won't have to worry.

[Heezdedjim]

Feedback: Very poor decision by BioWare on the prices of re-charging folks for training. Poor decision to leave this in place. Sad, because I know this will cause some folks to leave. I want the game to grow, not drive people away.

That's the baffling thing about this. To allow such a trivial issue, that they could easily fix, to sour peoples' view of the launch for an otherwise awesome expansion . . . it's just weird. There is no "upside" in failing to correct or compensate for this, whether or not it was intended. There is only downside from spoiling the success of all their hard work.

[ivanhedgehog]

I don't understand why people keep posting misleading information. Not all the abilities you are paying for you had before most are upgrades from what you had before. Every Mmo that has an expansion and has new abilities(upgrades) you pay for them.

 

sages are very grateful that they just got lift. they never had a hold before yesterday.

[LordArtemis]

Hyperbole.

 

Shenanigans.

[Khevar]

Every infraction I have has to do with ONE person.

Ah, yes, because Customer Service is always very forthcoming about who is reporting who.

 

[LordArtemis]

I'm not familiar with Tdmaha's posting history, bans, etc. In the case he has presented here, that people are crying over something that ought not be a big deal, I wholeheartedly agree with him. Train the "new" abilities. Bang, you're done. Next? Aren't there other things to worry about? this is a tempest in a teapot. You're worried about 50K? How about paying 50K per skill to be able to craft or gather above 450? Now THAT'S highway robbery!

 

In this case your conversation seems to have devolved into a simple ad hominem attack against the person and his history, completely off-topic for what we are trying to discuss. Perhaps he is doing it, too. In any case, nothing is being accomplished, and from the looks of it, Tdmaha's reputation is not the only one that is suffering. I would have expected better of you Lord Artemis. If you want to stay on topic, lead by example. This isn't it.

 

Fair enough.

 

As to the issue at hand, certainly some folks feel it is not a big deal. I would not argue against that contention, I would only say for some folks it seems to be something that is inappropriate, myself included.

Edited December 4, 2014 by LordArtemis