Will raiding in MMOs one day be a thing of the past?

[mefit]

You can say ouch all you want. It is a great feeling when you down that boss.

It seems that people no longer want games for Challenge , competitive gameplay , or anything outside of hitting 1 button and getting all the best gear drops off a Mob you can kill blindfolded without finders or hands .

[Khevar]

It seems that people no longer want games for Challenge , competitive gameplay , or anything outside of hitting 1 button and getting all the best gear drops off a Mob you can kill blindfolded without finders or hands .

And here we have hyperbole in the opposite direction. I object to a raid that requires 40+ hours per week dedication, and this somehow means I no longer want games for challenge?

 

Tell me, oh master of challenges: How well did you do on NM TfB Dread Guard pre nerf?

 

I've got a nickel that says you never even tried it.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Khevar

[DomiSotto]

Exaggerate much? Can't say for other people but what I do not want is:

 

1. Waiting aimlessly with nothing happening

2. Running for dear life on the heels of other people who seem to take the comms per min ratio too seriously

3. fights were you have to either guess at mechanics while you are busy dying or have to memorize it before-hand

4. Guessing at other's people's intentions/feelings cause they won't talk to you

5. receiving plain crude comments or seeing others receive them

6. Maintaining 2 augmented sets of gear and swapping the gear continuously piece by blessed piece under pressure

Edited December 13, 2014 by DomiSotto

[enigmacypher]

let me just say I am getting LLLOOONNNGGG in the tooth for games and do them mostly due to health reasons limiting my RL so this is a good place to hide..

 

first MMO like game I ever played was a genie game (text based sim of a pen and paper game called rolemaster)..

I player UO when it came out but switched over to EQ when it came out as I hated being rolled in the UO game due to many NONE casual players who like me now lived online and chose to be evil and PK lower levels due to the fact the lower levels were easy to kill and as a rule worth more than MUCH tougher creatures and NPCs.

I was a casual I worked upwards of 90 to 100 hours a week when it was busy and was on the road so playing was impossible as a rule and only for about 1 day a week.. I loved this game not because it was a great game but because of the community and this was so great at the time because YOU were forced to group to level as a rule..

 

first Raid was a dragon raid in EQ .. lag was nuts with 56k and 28k as a usual for players speed to internet at the time but fun over all

 

I have since EQ changed after I think it was scars of velious expansion then it was WoW which was the first of the NEW games and set ups .. faster leveling than EQ and once I got to raid levels during wrath it was great with the right groups.. groups who accepted raids were HARD mode .. wipes occurred from time to time especially when learning new content but this changed as time went by and it got worse and worse (players were never supposed to die and had to face roll all content).

 

though I purchased all content since then for WOW I seldom play it or even sub and only keep it up for my RL friends incase they chose to start playing again and need a healer/tank which were my classes of choice.

 

this game and many others have been installed on my computer over the years and I liked them and hated them.. CoX great game community wise and great player base as a rule (I might have lucked out of course) and raiding was fun at max level with any group I joined as we were all there for FUN first , the challenge second and success last and PvP felt the same THERE..

 

as with all games with raids and PvP there are too many "elitists" out there now that are intensely rude to anyone who might be learning a raid or how to PvP making growth terrible in this direction..

 

I love and hate SWTOR and on one side it often feels too easy to level up and too fast and yet with not near enough for max levels without going into the for raid mode (even PvP got old during the start of this game for me)..

 

Raiding IS fun and challenging but the thing that kills it is the community around it.. IF a new player is having difficulty being rude and complaining incessantly does not improve their game play BUT will make it worse in many cases due to them getting nervous..

 

someone said that you needed a special mouse or whatever with all the buttons you need but all through EQ we had neither voice nor special control adds and I got used to this and learned to both type on the fly and how to organize commands on the number keys so as to utilize them from there .. and WoW was the same.. THIS game is no different you just need to learn how to type in a way (at a former truck driver I never learned to type though can make a basic attempt due to all the time I have spent in MMOs and usually don't look at the keyboard.. though a true typist would frown at the ways I do find the keys)..

 

Just my 2 cents worth..

 

also other than raids what you do with "max" levels (though black desert I think is not supposed to have levels as such or at least level caps and this would probably make it a "test" game of things to come maybe)...

 

play safe all and be well

[Kalfear]

Throughout most of this thread, my comments have been in favor of raiding being a good thing, and that I wish there were more of this in SW:TOR. I guess you could call me a "raid defender"

 

And then I read this. Ouch.

 

40 hours a week? PLUS many hours a week farming consumables? Really???

 

Absolutely, unconditionally, 100%, NO-FREAKING-THANKS. If that's what raiding is supposed to be, then I for one am glad it doesn't exist in this game.

 

I really enjoy group content in this game. I enjoy flashpoints, I enjoy operations, I even enjoy the NM ops in this game. The group of friends I have made get together online, we get into mumble, we joke, we play, we have a good time, and we're pretty successful in our endeavors.

 

THAT is what I would like to keep going. Not revert to whatever Candor thinks is the ideal raid situation. Ugg.

 

Khev thats pretty standard PROGRESSION RAIDING experience

You run dailies and weeklies all week so you can throw yourself against hard and then nightmare mode content (and the repair bills that come with it normally)

 

Progression raiding (aka hardcore raiding) is NOT a interactive social experience.

Its typically 1 or 2 people barking orders while the others yell out 1 word call outs to describe the situation they in ( agro, OOM (fantasy game term), ect)

 

As I said, Ive done it before for the experience and even tried different groups to see if the experience changed

mostly it stays the same with minimal difference

 

-joke laugh before (Everyone happy and excited and cheerful)

-get all serious and stressed during

-spend hours min/maxing after

-repeat the next day

*until ultimately a certain click of players decide the problem is with the other players of group and make a power play for control or quit to make their own UBER progression raid group with out those other players who were all the problem.*

 

Gotta admit thankfully Ive always been smart enough to see that last one building and to bail on group before the grand explosion comes (because it always does come with out fail)

 

Personally Ive always enjoyed the more friendly slow moving groups more

Maybe you dont get the uber drops but normally you come out smiling and having fun

 

Hardcore raiding and hardcore PVP are just so contradictive of what you would think a MMORPG should be about in design as they pit players against players rather then build communities and social activities.

 

*Please not: The one exception on the PVP is DAoC because DAoC was smart enough to unity each faction/realm in a common goal that effected all of them in their PVP/RVR. So normally you would find PVP/RVR building and solidifying the community/faction because of common goal. In games like SW:TOR where faction/realm is basically meaningless outside a generalized plot point, they pit all players against all players creating a far more hostile or cut throat playing environment. Raiding is much the same way, iits all about your group being better then everyone else (in their own mind of course). *

 

I'm not a fan of progression raiding truth be told. Wasn't for me and doubt, if it didn't offer the best gear out there as a reward, it would be widely used at all.

 

You give craters the power to make the best gear again (with out forcing them into ops for schematics and drops to RE) and I bet Ops runners population drops be 50%-75% almost over night.

 

PLEASE NOTE: I'm not saying every progression raider is a !$@!%$$. Like any group you can always find some good ones and I do know some good ones who are all in different guilds and such. Just in a generality you speak regarding the majority and honestly, I wouldn't give the time of day to a great many of them with how they behave and treat others inside those raids, that I've had the displeasure of meeting over last 20+ years in MMORPGs.

[enigmacypher]

Khev thats pretty standard PROGRESSION RAIDING experience

You run dailies and weeklies all week so you can throw yourself against hard and then nightmare mode content (and the repair bills that come with it normally)

 

Progression raiding (aka hardcore raiding) is NOT a interactive social experience.

Its typically 1 or 2 people barking orders while the others yell out 1 word call outs to describe the situation they in ( agro, OOM (fantasy game term), ect)

 

As I said, Ive done it before for the experience and even tried different groups to see if the experience changed

mostly it stays the same with minimal difference

 

-joke laugh before (Everyone happy and excited and cheerful)

-get all serious and stressed during

-spend hours min/maxing after

-repeat the next day

*until ultimately a certain click of players decide the problem is with the other players of group and make a power play for control or quit to make their own UBER progression raid group with out those other players who were all the problem.*

 

Gotta admit thankfully Ive always been smart enough to see that last one building and to bail on group before the grand explosion comes (because it always does come with out fail)

 

Personally Ive always enjoyed the more friendly slow moving groups more

Maybe you dont get the uber drops but normally you come out smiling and having fun

 

Hardcore raiding and hardcore PVP are just so contradictive of what you would think a MMORPG should be about in design as they pit players against players rather then build communities and social activities.

 

*Please not: The one exception on the PVP is DAoC because DAoC was smart enough to unity each faction/realm in a common goal that effected all of them in their PVP/RVR. So normally you would find PVP/RVR building and solidifying the community/faction because of common goal. In games like SW:TOR where faction/realm is basically meaningless outside a generalized plot point, they pit all players against all players creating a far more hostile or cut throat playing environment. Raiding is much the same way, iits all about your group being better then everyone else (in their own mind of course). *

 

I'm not a fan of progression raiding truth be told. Wasn't for me and doubt, if it didn't offer the best gear out there as a reward, it would be widely used at all.

 

You give craters the power to make the best gear again (with out forcing them into ops for schematics and drops to RE) and I bet Ops runners population drops be 50%-75% almost over night.

 

PLEASE NOTE: I'm not saying every progression raider is a !$@!%$$. Like any group you can always find some good ones and I do know some good ones who are all in different guilds and such. Just in a generality you speak regarding the majority and honestly, I wouldn't give the time of day to a great many of them with how they behave and treat others inside those raids, that I've had the displeasure of meeting over last 20+ years in MMORPGs.

 

though I agree with much of this I have to question (sometimes when not in the process of being wound up by the bad players) that the bad players might not be in majority but they are always the most vocal that literally destroy the game play and enjoy ability of raiding..

 

also there is at least always 1 bad seed it seems in every group .. without the over, tense rude, blame throwers I would be far more likely to go back to raiding again

[Candor]

Progression raiding is not supposed to be online dating. It's more like a competitive sports team. You have personality conflicts, you have friends for life, whatever, but when it comes time to pass the ball, you pass the ball. Nothing matters but getting the server-first. I's kind of freeing. I loved it and hated it. I'd probably do it again here if raiding was part of this game's culture. But it really isn't, at least from what I've seen in 8 months. And, being an elitist jerk, if I can't do it professionally, I don't do it at all.

 

But that's where it gets weird (and relevant). I've been playing this game hard for eight months. After a couple of months of not raiding, I realized that it didn't matter here. I've managed to put in 30+ hours a week doing nothing but dailies, prestige, conquest, HM FPs, etc. I had full 180s just from GF dailies. It's been fun and rewarding and an efficient use of time, unlike the few ops that I've landed in over the same period.

 

So yeah, raiding is already a thing of the past. Ops here -- at least SM and even HM -- are for if you're someone who wants to be socializing every minute, doesn't care about min-maxing your play schedule, and/or who is new to raiding and is still impressed by purples. I do think ops should stay in SWTOR, although not as a core story mechanic. I do think ops should have unique rewards, although in a game with this casual a raid scene, I don't think the rewards should be that extreme; perhaps cosmetic things that show you're a high-level raider, or social tools like more guild/chat features. If NiM raiding is legit, or if Bioware wants it to be legit, than blow it up: create lots of challenges and a leaderboard in game, create some very visible rewards, create a very long but doable progression path so people get invested in the process and in their main character (and "progression" means stuff like alignments, not just a short comm grind).

 

Dang it, now I'm missing raiding. Maybe it's time to switch servers. Or games.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Candor

[Khevar]

Khev thats pretty standard PROGRESSION RAIDING experience ...

(Forgive me for not quoting the whole post, it's kind of long.)

 

Yeah, I completely get what you're saying. I agree, I tend to like the more friendly approach.

 

I suppose there are players that miss the days when it really did take 40 people and unbelievable amounts of persistence, high tempers and absolute dedication just to imagine the possibility of pulling it off.

[TheSupaCoopa]

Anyone remember the Eyeless? The raid with Bolster and pre-50 characters?

 

With some tweaking, I think we might be able make a highly accessable raid.

 

-Duran'del

[x_Boots_x]

Yes and No, the current elitist model of raiding will die off very soon as will "hardcore PVP" those ideas in my opinion are for basement dwellers that rely on a video game to make up for a lack of real life, the vast majority of players would like to participate but do not want to feel as though they have a virtual job in the video game to keep up with doing so. Mechanics don't have to change, nor should they become easier but gear progression needs to be eliminated and instead find other rewards such as luxury, appearance items and in game perks.

 

As for pvp, there should be a true bolster so that all players are boosted to the identical stat line while in pvp mode, whether in open world or queued, that would encourage many, many more players to get involved and allows skilled players to still rise to the top.

Edited December 13, 2014 by x_Boots_x

[mefit]

Yes and No, the current elitist model of raiding will die off very soon as will "hardcore PVP" those ideas in my opinion are for basement dwellers that rely on a video game to make up for a lack of real life, the vast majority of players would like to participate but do not want to feel as though they have a virtual job in the video game to keep up with doing so. Mechanics don't have to change, nor should they become easier but gear progression needs to be eliminated and instead find other rewards such as luxury, appearance items and in game perks.

 

As for pvp, there should be a true bolster so that all players are boosted to the identical stat line while in pvp mode, whether in open world or queued, that would encourage many, many more players to get involved and allows skilled players to still rise to the top.

Every Thread seems to be full of "Nerf this " "Nerf that" " It is just too much " . Working for Progression and Wins is a thing of the past . We are in the "Give Me it all for Free" Generation .

[mefit]

I think MMO companies should make a Casual Server and Hardcore server .

If I play by myself so be it , but the less crying the better .

[mefit]

Yeah ... about that ...

 

It was nerfed on 6/25/2013. Quite a bit more than 7 months ago. Not sure what fight you're thinking about, but it ain't the right one.

Sorry I go back and forth MMOs and the last time I played up till last week was Archeage , I have beat every Nightmare pernerf or not .

Not going to lie , I play DPS so it really is not hard to take Direction from a Guild who has done it before and just pug right in .

SWTOR , I have never really cared to be guilded , right now I am in a Guild I could not tell you who the leader is or the name for that matter .

See, now I know you're just a fool.

 

I have never once asked for anything in this game to be nerfed. Ever. Not in game, not on these forums. In fact, I've actually spent considerable time and effort trying to convince people that encounters DIDN'T need to be nerfed, and strategies they could learn to beat them.

These forums are spammed with Nerf calling ,

I wonder what sort of weird funhouse mirror you look through when you read my posts and come with some idea about "people like me"

 

Perhaps this is your problem. You think I'm talking about 40 hours on a boss fight. My raid group has spent more than that on bosses in NM DP. That wasn't what I was referring to.

 

The person I quoted was talking about 40 hours per week on the raid, in addition to the time spent farming for materials and supplies for the raid group.

 

Operative word being PER WEEK.

 

Savvy?

 

Well being there is MMOs with Bosses that range 40hrs I did not think the conversation was beginning and ending with SWTOR nor did anyone say a detail of adding in everything you had to do for that fight .

 

Take FF11 , I spent 24hrs rotating breaks on a Boss fight .

Challenging may not always need to be a hour out boss fight or more , but it should not be a cake walk either . It should be hard enough to make you wanna pull your hair out .

 

But having a boss that takes more time than a hour , maybe hours and only a few Guilds are able to do it , is not a bad thing .

People should have something to strive to .

Edited December 13, 2014 by mefit

[mefit]

If we keep on going to a more casual route , than nothing will take time , nothing will have challenge , and nothing will be worth doing long term .

 

While I have not ever been into Perma Death or Gear Stealing of dead players , those games are making a come back .

While I will never play them , I believe that they have a purpose .

 

I am just saying having Nightmares that are losable are a good thing .

 

I have played many MMOs and I have a Rotation of them of I go to when I get bored .

FF14 I beat all modes in there from SM to Extreme .

 

Took me 12hrs with a Pug Group to beat Titan Extreme , which is a fairly easy fight with people who pay attention .

Winning things that take effort and time feel better than just aimlessly walking through something .

 

Raiding might be soon a thing of the past but it will be back when people realize it had a purpose .

 

And the people who scream the loudest on the forums are the ones always asking for Nerfs or easier paths , people who would be against them are usually playing the game .

[Khevar]

Sorry I go back and forth MMOs and the last time I played up till last week was Archeage , I have beat every Nightmare pernerf or not .

Only 7 guilds in the world managed to beat NM TfB DG pre-nerf (out of a large number competing). I'm pretty sure that you are either confused about what fight I'm talking about, or are straight up lying. But I'm not going to ask you to prove it, as I don't think this will get us anywhere.

But having a boss that takes more time than a hour , maybe hours and only a few Guilds are able to do it , is not a bad thing .

People should have something to strive to .

No doubt. I have no argument with you about this.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Khevar

[mefit]

Ready, fire, aim, eh mefit? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=782056

 

Khevar does not advocate nerfs, quite the opposite. Not only that, he has posted helpful posts with tips on how to get around the need for 12XP.

 

Just because someone disagrees with a point you make, your posting style or your general community behavior does not mean they are pro nerf mefit. You will likely find folks that oppose your viewpoint on principle, simply because your point you make is unreasonable, unrealistic or hyperbole.

 

Next time it might be best to check a pesron's post history before you decide to deride them for something they have not done.

 

Otherwise you will end up looking pretty silly.

 

Here we are again with caring what others think , you will find I do not care . Nor do I live on here enough to constantly check peoples Post history . You might live and breath to want everyone to like everything you write , take offense to everything people say in the opposite but I do not .

I do not get offended by your constant use or others of the word Hyperbole , must be a new fad , or his insult of calling me a fool .

That's life .

 

Maybe He and I just had a miscommunication , happens such in life with being drowned out with 100s of forums just like this one .

 

People always oppose the hard road , everyone wants a shortcut . Proven .

 

Glad you have a ally .

 

Again point out if I care how you guys think of me ........

Edited December 13, 2014 by mefit

[mefit]

No doubt. I have no argument with you about this.

All I am saying.

[LordArtemis]

Here we are again with caring what others think , you will find I do not care . Nor do I live on here enough to constantly check peoples Post history . You might live and breath to want everyone to like everything you write , take offense to everything people say in the opposite but I do not .

I do not get offended by your constant use or others of the word Hyperbole , must be a new fad , or his insult of calling me a fool .

That's life .

 

People always oppose the hard road , everyone wants a shortcut . Proven .

 

Glad you have a ally .

 

Again point out if I care how you guys think of me ........

 

It is not a personal insult. Describing your posting style is a description of posting style. I do not know you personally.

 

Stop acting like a wounded bird mefit. I'm not buying it, and I expect, if this thread and others are any indication most are not buying it either.

 

Your generally negative posting style stands in evidence. If you didn't truly care what folks thought of your posting style you would not constantly post to defend your opinion in the first place. Surely you must understand that a poor posting history is not going to help you convince folks your views are valid or correct, nor is it likely to convince Bioware.

 

Your posts usually do not represent the hard road IMO. Your posts, more often than not, seem to represent the unreasonable and unrealistic road, clearly.

 

I call shenanigans.

Edited December 14, 2014 by LordArtemis

[mefit]

It is not a personal insult. Describing your posting style is a description of posting style. I do not know you personally.

 

Stop acting like a wounded bird mefit. I'm not buying it, and I expect, if this thread and others are any indication most are not buying it either.

 

Your posting style stands in evidence. If you didn't truly care what folks thought of your posting style you would not constantly post to defend your opinion in the first place. Surely you must understand that a poor posting history is not going to help you convince folks your views are valid or correct, nor is it likely to convince Bioware.

 

Your posts do not represent the hard road IMO. Your posts represent the unreasonable and unrealistic road, clearly.

 

I call shenanigans.

^ I love the Movie Waiting ^

 

I am not a wounded Bird , Insult away bro , have at it !

 

Saying my opinion is just as good as the constant asking for Nerfs , paybacks , 12X EXP threads that just get spammed and spammed all over these forums .

 

So , if you think my post are garbage or trash , why reply ? Heck , there is a Ignore feature in the forums , silent me to your eyes . Have at it .

But if you think because I totally disagree with much of what you say makes my post bad , well that's your opinion .

That is life .

We live in a world where you have people who disagree till Wars break out , I live in a Country where two sides never agree on anything , surely I can handle being on the disagreeing end of what you guys have for opinions of what is good or not and survive the lash back of responses of Hyperbole and Blah Blah .

 

 

I like Revan and spent the first year of this game defending that character and his Author Drew , a majority was against me then too .

Karen Travis , I defended her as well when she and LucasArts killed off Mara Jade and people on these forums spend everyday calling her names and making her out to be the Anti Christ .

 

I will be fine with you being not on the same side

Edited December 13, 2014 by mefit

[LordArtemis]

^ I love the Movie Waiting ^

 

I am not a wounded Bird , Insult away bro , have at it !

 

Saying my opinion is just as good as the constant asking for Nerfs , paybacks , 12X EXP threads that just get spammed and spammed all over these forums .

 

So , if you think my post are garbage or trash , why reply ? Heck , there is a Ignore feature in the forums , silent me to your eyes . Have at it .

But if you think because I totally disagree with much of what you say makes my post bad , well that's your opinion .

That is life .

We live in a world where you have people who disagree till Wars break out , I live in a Country where two sides never agree on anything , surely I can handle being on the disagreeing end of what you guy have for opinions of what is good or not and survive the lash back of responses of Hyperbole and Blah Blah .

 

 

I like Revan and spent the first year of this game defending that character and his Author Drew , a majority was against me then too .

Karen Travis , I defended her as well when she and LucasArts killed off Mara Jade and people on these forums spend everyday calling her names and making her out to be the Anti Christ .

 

I will be fine with you being not on the same side

 

Again with the drama. I do not think they are garbage or trash mefit. Your opinion is as valid and pertinent as anyone elses. It is the posting STYLE that some folks seem to take issue with. Not to mention a few of your contentions some folks seem to find disingenuous.

 

Discourse is healthy. Your discourse is appreciated I would expect....at least I appreciate it. What is not appreciated, at least in my view, is the dramatic posting style, hyperbole and often unreasonable, unrealistic positions you take.

 

Your not doing yourself any favors here mefit. If you want folks to take your opinion seriously (which is evident by your constant posts) you should tone down the rhetoric a bit IMO.

 

You are of course free to continue iceskating uphill if you choose.

[mefit]

Again with the drama. I do not think they are garbage or trash mefit. Your opinion is as valid and pertinent as anyone elses. It is the posting STYLE that some folks seem to take issue with. Not to mention a few of your contentions some folks seem to find disingenuous.

 

Discourse is healthy. Your discourse is appreciated I would expect....at least I appreciate it. What is not appreciated, at least in my view, is the dramatic posting style, hyperbole and often unreasonable, unrealistic positions you take.

 

Your not doing yourself any favors here mefit. If you want folks to take your opinion seriously (which is evident by your constant posts) you should tone down the rhetoric a bit IMO.

 

You are of course free to continue iceskating uphill if you choose.

 

I like to reply upwards too if you did not notice .

Like I do not ice skate uphill , rather on flat ground that is not really fun but has a point .

 

I do not need any Favors here or anywhere . I am not on here to say the same thing as you or anyone , matter of fact I prefer if we disagreed , said all this before I know but anyways.

 

You say Dramatic post , I think more along the lines of saying just how it is , just like you need to keep on reminding me you want people to like your post and how I should too .

 

I am not running for President or Congress or Senate , so I do not need people to like what I post . The point that you are replying at a constant rate (Same as mine to your Response) shows me you are atleast paying attention .

Others are rolling their eyes , smashing their heads , or just the good old facepalm I am sure . But they are reading it .

 

Eventually they will hate me or take a minute to see past all the bs and see what I am saying . But still my opinion anyways , I would rather you did not like it . Has a more zing to it when it is not favorable among the people who say the same things literally every thread and post .

[LyraineAlei]

Hyperbole: Extreme exaggeration. They were using the word correctly. Your thoughts seem to go from "Well, they complain about 40hrs a week, so they must want an iWin button to press and there is their victory."

 

40 hrs per week is an insane amount of time, just raiding. 40/7≈5-6 hours a day just raiding.

 

I don't think anyone wants an instant iWin button. That would make the game beyond boring. Yes, there should be challenges, but those challenges should not require 40 hours a week. Maybe bring it down to ten. Or fifteen hours a week.

[mefit]

Hyperbole: Extreme exaggeration. They were using the word correctly. Your thoughts seem to go from "Well, they complain about 40hrs a week, so they must want an iWin button to press and there is their victory."

 

40 hrs per week is an insane amount of time, just raiding. 40/7≈5-6 hours a day just raiding.

 

I don't think anyone wants an instant iWin button. That would make the game beyond boring. Yes, there should be challenges, but those challenges should not require 40 hours a week. Maybe bring it down to ten. Or fifteen hours a week.

Here is a easy answer , it is call self control .

I play this game 2-5 hours a day now , and go back and forth between another MMO atm .

 

It does not take long to get decent gear in SWTOR , as a crafter it takes less .

The thing is if you are not happy with the time you are spending in Raids , then take a break . Simple as that .

 

You can spend as much time doing things as you like .

 

So spending 40+ hours a week is your fault or the fault of the player , not the game .

 

Having anything done to those events to cater to you or someone else , makes the event lose it's meaning .

 

I have played games that willingly do nerfing so you won't spend much time in there , to me just seems lame .

 

Oh look Hyperbole again , I should start using it so I can be a cool kid . Kinda reminds me of the "UMADBRO" "NOOB" and "KID" phases . What will you guys say next lol

[LyraineAlei]

Here is a easy answer , it is call self control .

I play this game 2-5 hours a day now , and go back and forth between another MMO atm .

 

It does not take long to get decent gear in SWTOR , as a crafter it takes less .

The thing is if you are not happy with the time you are spending in Raids , then take a break . Simple as that .

 

You can spend as much time doing things as you like .

 

So spending 40+ hours a week is your fault or the fault of the player , not the game .

 

Having anything done to those events to cater to you or someone else , makes the event lose it's meaning .

 

I have played games that willingly do nerfing so you won't spend much time in there , to me just seems lame .

 

Oh look Hyperbole again , I should start using it so I can be a cool kid . Kinda reminds me of the "UMADBRO" "NOOB" and "KID" phases . What will you guys say next lol

 

How cute. I never said I was a raider. I only said I would like to raid, but -le gasp!- I don't have the time to dedicate those crazy hours for raids on a regular basis, if I even raided. Of course, if you looked though my posts in this thread, or my post history, you would know that, considering I have said it at least twice since you entered this conversation.

 

I was just telling you the definition of HYPERBOLE. But now that you mention it, are you mad that we keep using it properly, friend?

 

Personally, I don't give a flying womp rat's rear end about the gear. I do however, care about the story, and maybe, just maybe, bringing raids out of the elitist-only club it seems to live in. My suggestions including a scaling system so that raiders didn't need to have 16-people for groups, but 4-man, 6-man, 8-man, 10-man for example.

 

That isn't needing. That is increasing pop speed. That is allowing more people to raid rather than fart around, waiting for a group.

[mefit]

How cute. I never said I was a raider. I only said I would like to raid, but -le gasp!- I don't have the time to dedicate those crazy hours for raids on a regular basis, if I even raided. Of course, if you looked though my posts in this thread, or my post history, you would know that, considering I have said it at least twice since you entered this conversation.

 

I was just telling you the definition of HYPERBOLE. But now that you mention it, are you mad that we keep using it properly, friend?

 

Personally, I don't give a flying womp rat's rear end about the gear. I do however, care about the story, and maybe, just maybe, bringing raids out of the elitist-only club it seems to live in. My suggestions including a scaling system so that raiders didn't need to have 16-people for groups, but 4-man, 6-man, 8-man, 10-man for example.

 

That isn't needing. That is increasing pop speed. That is allowing more people to raid rather than fart around, waiting for a group.

 

Sorry kinda ment General of 40hour raiding not really was singling you out . I forgot a lot of people need everything spelt out for them . being it has been mentioned accouple of times in this thread .My bad .

 

No if Hyperbole and fads are your thing please keep using it , I find it funny to be honest . Kinda like watching someone walking into a wall .

 

SMs are Elitest only now ? Are friends so hard to get these days ? I mean geez My guild has it posted days and times for SMs and HMs and NiMs . Are they rare Guilds like this anymore ?

 

Anyways , say Hyperbole to every reply to my post , if it so makes you feel grand and superior .