Nightkin Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 So unexciting from looking ahead at what is going to happen to my Arsenal Merc and Disciplines that i've decided to change class. As in i've taken advantage of the 12x exp and levelled a Powertech that will become my main come 3.0. My Arsenal Merc? Love it dearly, but with the terrible thought process that went into the Disciplines it is blatantly obvious that the devs that deal with it haven't ever tried running with an Arsenal Merc in a PvP scenario, and equally don't understand the inherent issues that we as players have in PvP. For those in the thread saying it's just QQ etc, go try an Arsenal Merc in ranked, see how long you last if you sacrifice one of your defensive buffs. I actually think they did some very pvp focused changes, such as Thrill of the hunt, Priming Shot, Power shot instant, Stabilized Armor and so on. The problem is, even though all of that was great, its still not enough. I dare say its not even enough to put us into what would have been acceptable for 55 pvp. Maybe, but im not sure. Will it be enough for 60 pvp with all immunitys etc that melee get? Not by a longshot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerreusSteelTip Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 People should just wait till 3.0 hits. The longer i think about it the more i belive merc might be fine for group ranked. Solo Queue is just a different beast. Currently the "only" way to kill in group ranked is to CC the healer/tank or split tank/target apart. Keep in mind CC will be cleanseable with 3.0, so having classes that can actually cleanse their healer/tank or even both can be a huge advantage. Stabilized armor will give you 30% dmg reduction when stunned, which is huge. You wont die if you are stunned (+ guard or heals) and if you are not you can just kite with hyrdaulic override. Priming Shot and Thrill of the Hunt + 2 instant heals will support this playstyle. Cooldown of interrupts will be increased so much more free casting for mercs on top of Energy Shield giving immunity. BW said dmg numbers at 60 will be the same we have right now at 55, main difference will be everyone getting 10k extra hp, which makes getting "globaled" less of an issue. IF you can get group ranked going. For whatever reason, it was easier to get 8v8 ranked going. Maybe it's lack of tanks (decent ones) or the fact that most are too ego driven to work together as a team. Personally I think it's because no one wants to take their lashes so to speak. Losing a bunch in order to get better as a team. Who knows. But for the moment, the MAJORITY have to deal with solo ranked. And in solo ranked, merc/mando is only marginally better than sniper. And both are bottom of the barrel. Some will simply say, 'Roll sorc" and to them I say. "Shouldn't have to" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texoc Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) IF you can get group ranked going. For whatever reason, it was easier to get 8v8 ranked going. Maybe it's lack of tanks (decent ones) or the fact that most are too ego driven to work together as a team. Personally I think it's because no one wants to take their lashes so to speak. Losing a bunch in order to get better as a team. Who knows. But for the moment, the MAJORITY have to deal with solo ranked. And in solo ranked, merc/mando is only marginally better than sniper. And both are bottom of the barrel. Some will simply say, 'Roll sorc" and to them I say. "Shouldn't have to" There wont be single developer that will achieve Balance in a random/solo arena. Ist not gonna happen. In a 4v4 arena you will want to have a tank! And with a tank suddenly Sniper and Mercs are viable and will be even more with 3.0. Currently the most interesting ranked comp on our Server is Double Sniper, wiping the floor with Fotm setups. This game isnt focused arround 1v1 or 4v4. The majority is still playing casual BGs, and even in ranked 8v8 my guild used to play with unusual setups, deception Sins before the got buffed, duo/tripple lethality ops, duo sage, we always played with a mando healer and never had a scoundrel heal in rbgs. Point is, give mercs a rolfcopter cooldown and the tears from casuals will never end. Edited November 21, 2014 by texoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightkin Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Point is, give mercs a rolfcopter cooldown and the tears from casuals will never end. Kinda like Enraged Defence, or Madness Spec in general. Or 10-20 sec cc immunity as Jug, or 12 sec stun/mez immunity as assassin. Did i mention that Jugs and Assassins are gonna demolish everything soon? (Even more then they already are) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osxoba Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Kinda like Enraged Defence, or Madness Spec in general. Or 10-20 sec cc immunity as Jug, or 12 sec stun/mez immunity as assassin. Did i mention that Jugs and Assassins are gonna demolish everything soon? (Even more then they already are) As if they needed more defense. I honestly think the people in charge have severe brain damage. They gave more survivability to two of the most survivable classes. They couldn't even let mercs activate Kolto Overload while stunned, which would be such a big help. Considering they're the first ones stunned and targeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osxoba Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 If you knew what kind of nerfs and reasoning currently going on with Merc/commando healer on the pts forums thanks to a well recognized and respected (?) forum member that doesn't even play merc healer and Bioware that base their data on this guys "calculations" with perfect rotations you are probably going to unsub once 3.0 hits. It looks like merc healing might be worse than pre 2.0 when this guy and Bioware are done with the nerfs and they are certainly not looking at pvp viability. I'm quite certain I'm going to let my sub lapse and wait a year or two once merc healing become viable for a short amount of time again or roll a sorc healer like everyone else with pts access. It was certainly a mistake by me to preorder the expansion without knowing how unprofessional Bioware is. I would love to know who this forum member is so I can publicly refute his/her "calculations". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 As if they needed more defense. I honestly think the people in charge have severe brain damage. They gave more survivability to two of the most survivable classes. They couldn't even let mercs activate Kolto Overload while stunned, which would be such a big help. Considering they're the first ones stunned and targeted. Have to agree there. Although, I suppose you could try running with a complete merc / pt team and see who they decide to focus first Having the addition of Thrill of the Hunt is great.... what do you give up for it though? That's right, a defensive ability. Utterly useless with all the roots, if the ability came with automatic root / stun immunity then it would actually be something useful to take. Otherwise it's just useless fluff for someone who does PvP on their merc, you know you're getting rooted or stunned or globaled so taking anything less than you already have is pure stupidity. May look nice (yay! new ability!), in reality though, you're still going to be the focus and you're still going to be rooted so why waste a utility point on a useless utility in a PvP scenario? Even with the nerf to power surge it's still the better option for dealing damage in that tiny little window of chance you get to actually do damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightkin Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Have to agree there. Although, I suppose you could try running with a complete merc / pt team and see who they decide to focus first Having the addition of Thrill of the Hunt is great.... what do you give up for it though? That's right, a defensive ability. Utterly useless with all the roots, if the ability came with automatic root / stun immunity then it would actually be something useful to take. Otherwise it's just useless fluff for someone who does PvP on their merc, you know you're getting rooted or stunned or globaled so taking anything less than you already have is pure stupidity. May look nice (yay! new ability!), in reality though, you're still going to be the focus and you're still going to be rooted so why waste a utility point on a useless utility in a PvP scenario? Even with the nerf to power surge it's still the better option for dealing damage in that tiny little window of chance you get to actually do damage. Im afraid you are right, for ranked i will try healer merc but i cant take thrill of the hunt. Need more defence. For regs though i might go for it, just for laughs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaFaceroll Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I would love to know who this forum member is so I can publicly refute his/her "calculations". If you combined a computer input device with a black pajama wearing assassin I expect you'd come up with the person in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osxoba Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 If you combined a computer input device with a black pajama wearing assassin I expect you'd come up with the person in question. Nice hint. Although Kind of sad really, because I think this person has contributed much to the assassin forums. Although, their assumptions for calculations are obviously flawed. There are too many things that are not well quantified when it comes to PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 If you combined a computer input device with a black pajama wearing assassin I expect you'd come up with the person in question. I have to say when it comes to both PVE and PVP I do not like the unnamed person you just mentioned, while said person may be very smart when it comes to things like tanks and getting them viable for PVE tanking , I have to say other than that I don't like the person. Theory crafting is only good in theory just like dummy parses are only good for beatin on a dummy, in the real game there is movement in PVP and PVE an other person on the other end(PVP). In PVP I have to say the amount of dps you does not account for viability, take marauders and ops for example, some of the top melee damage dealers but in [solo]ranked they are considered unviable and achieve no where near as much as other classes/specs which do less damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osxoba Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I have to say when it comes to both PVE and PVP I do not like the unnamed person you just mentioned, while said person may be very smart when it comes to things like tanks and getting them viable for PVE tanking , I have to say other than that I don't like the person. Theory crafting is only good in theory just like dummy parses are only good for beatin on a dummy, in the real game there is movement in PVP and PVE an other person on the other end(PVP). In PVP I have to say the amount of dps you does not account for viability, take marauders and ops for example, some of the top melee damage dealers but in [solo]ranked they are considered unviable and achieve no where near as much as other classes/specs which do less damage I wholeheartedly agree, there are too many variables involved in PVP besides just healing numbers and damage numbers. You cannot run simulations of PVP environments, it just doesn't work that way. If MouseSamurai is basing their "conclusions" off faulty assumptions and missing variables, then devs and other players should be ignoring their "results". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I wholeheartedly agree, there are too many variables involved in PVP besides just healing numbers and damage numbers. You cannot run simulations of PVP environments, it just doesn't work that way. If MouseSamurai is basing their "conclusions" off faulty assumptions and missing variables, then devs and other players should be ignoring their "results". Why the electronic piano assassin's opinion is taken into so much more consideration than the actual players of the class. I mean I have this quote from him that I love Have you played Scrapper lately? It's more OP than ever. The only things it had at launch which it lacks now is higher up front burst and a knockdown. The DPS put out by the spec is substantially higher than it was at launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osxoba Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Why the electronic piano assassin's opinion is taken into so much more consideration than the actual players of the class. I mean I have this quote from him that I love This is a clear case of delusion. I dunno, as a merc, I have noticed that Scrappers have a pretty large amount of upfront burst and damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 This is a clear case of delusion. I dunno, as a merc, I have noticed that Scrappers have a pretty large amount of upfront burst and damage. That'll be your super heavy armour protecting you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodulus Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Nice hint. Although Kind of sad really, because I think this person has contributed much to the assassin forums. Although, their assumptions for calculations are obviously flawed. There are too many things that are not well quantified when it comes to PVP. One can see the current in the pipeline merc heal nerfs on another popular swtor community where a certain miner posts stuff. However the SamuraiAssassin still wants to go a bit further and swing the nerf bat a bit harder on the merc heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osxoba Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 One can see the current in the pipeline merc heal nerfs on another popular swtor community where a certain miner posts stuff. However the SamuraiAssassin still wants to go a bit further and swing the nerf bat a bit harder on the merc heals. Some people just have to maintain their FOTM at the top, and will try to nerf anyone that needs a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Some people just have to maintain their FOTM at the top, and will try to nerf anyone that needs a buff. This is the corrosive effect that PvP "balance" has on MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texoc Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 One can see the current in the pipeline merc heal nerfs on another popular swtor community where a certain miner posts stuff. However the SamuraiAssassin still wants to go a bit further and swing the nerf bat a bit harder on the merc heals. I really fail to see how this "nerf" will bring them down to a more "proper" level in pve, however for pvp this is a huge nerf like holy freakin moly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 One can see the current in the pipeline merc heal nerfs on another popular swtor community where a certain miner posts stuff. However the SamuraiAssassin still wants to go a bit further and swing the nerf bat a bit harder on the merc heals. That's actually pretty infuriating if BioWare are taking the opinion of one single player as gospel, and can't see why that player is trying to get the mercs nerfed (as if they need more nerfs... poor sods). Look at it this way, out of all the healers, Merc heals is the only one I can solo dps to death, forget it with all the others. Seriously *** are BioWare playing at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szczypaczek Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 looking at the other ACs changes, it looks like dps mercs are getting nerfed. our survivability is a joke, the only thing that keeps us alive right now are the self heals, which will be nerfed? Mercs dont get anything new in 3.0 except for mobile channel , which would be good if it could break roots. As Watcher stated, these changes could be ok for 55 lvl pvp, but all these already op classes are getting even better skills. For example, why heal on jet boost is a tier 3 ability, while the same for sorc only tier 1? What is the freaking reasoning behind this? Why Merc will be like only one ranged dps class suffering from pushback in 3.0 Buff right? Why smt so bad like supercharged reserves is not just a freaking passive, why we have to spend heroic point for this crap? Srsly? Everythig with the new utility abilities for mercs feels so wrong, not to mention Jugss get 50% movement speed boost while Endure is active. Why every other AC is getting something good except the mercs? You do wanna us to reroll dont u devs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarsGradivus Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 nerfed it even more... think goin to reroll... bioware thnx for fckin it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightkin Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 nerfed it even more... think goin to reroll... bioware thnx for fckin it up! What do you mean, nerfed what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texoc Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 What do you mean, nerfed what? heals got nerfed quite a bit (kolto shell) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightkin Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 heals got nerfed quite a bit (kolto shell) From how it is on live or from the PTS? Cause i always felt the live version was a bit low :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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