Wasbeer Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 More and more heals keep getting granted to dps/tanks via passives or actives in which it's instant or ticks with damaging abilities. I know you think that they need more survivability but this is not the way to do it. You're gradually making healers less and less. 1: You're reducing the importance of healers, I would hate to see this turn into what WOW was doing a while back where tanks would out heal healers and dps could sometimes keep even or only a short distance below them. 2: Reducing the importance of tanks holding aggro in flashpoints because now DPS will feel they can facetank and heal themselves. 3:You've repeatedly reduced dps/survival/healing for most healing advanced classes and then supplemented it by granting healing to dps/tanks. How is this balanced or fair for those who play as healers in both PVE and PVP? It makes leveling harder, and it makes PVP just a way to tear yourself a new one. You're not potent in 1v1 as a healer, you're not going to have much survival, you can heal but no longer are you really capable of keeping yourself up for very long or others for that matter, and you'll be focus fired the whole time. Don't make the same mistake WOW made, keep healing to the healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorreeam Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeraphyne Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I have to agree with everything you've said, but unfortunately they're not gonna care or listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I have to agree with everything you've said, but unfortunately they're not gonna care or listen. Please explain to me, how healers are being neglected? Does not matter how many healing passives a tank or dps gets, they still need their healers to survive. So how is they not caring or listening? I really don't understand the issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasbeer Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Please explain to me, how healers are being neglected? Does not matter how many healing passives a tank or dps gets, they still need their healers to survive. So how is they not caring or listening? I really don't understand the issue here. Did you even read my post that started this thread? In particular see section 3 for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turajin Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 More and more heals keep getting granted to dps/tanks via passives or actives in which it's instant or ticks with damaging abilities. I know you think that they need more survivability ... And increased survivability is the reason why they do it, especially survivability when soloing. And before someone comes again with that "it's a MMORPG, not a solo-player-game"-stuff... yeah, it might be a MMORPG, but a large number of players are soloing. And since these are paying customers, it's fully legit to cater to thier needs, too, instead of just saying "find a group or leave", making them chose the latter and thus reducing the income produced by this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Did you even read my post that started this thread? In particular see section 3 for this. No, all of that section was you crying that healers can't 1v1 and that they can't be effective because they are focused. Well does it ever occur to you that player skill does play a role in this too? Really, healers are by far the life blood of an operation or warzone but to say that giving healing passives to tanks or healers does somehow diminish the role of healers? Then I say you are wrong because for survivability tanks and some dps need it and it actually helps healers. So your section 3 does in no way address what I said. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 And increased survivability is the reason why they do it, especially survivability when soloing. And before someone comes again with that "it's a MMORPG, not a solo-player-game"-stuff... yeah, it might be a MMORPG, but a large number of players are soloing. And since these are paying customers, it's fully legit to cater to thier needs, too, instead of just saying "find a group or leave", making them chose the latter and thus reducing the income produced by this game. How is having a 1 to 55 leveling experience with fully voiced stories and quests not catering to their needs? You guys forget a little thing called balance when calling for buffs and nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzan Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I would have to disagree with the OP and it's not because I think you are wrong. First of all, I think you are arguing the wrong point. There is nothing wrong with giving each class abilites to restore their HP. It happens in every MMO sometimes to the extent that you can survive on your own without the heals of a healer. Furthermore, advancing in the game should not see you relying on a particular role to carry you through. What I would say healers need are more (or better? ) buffs. Most MMOs give healers the ability to boost other players' attributes significantly. As far as I know, healers can't boost your attributes, you have to buy stims/ adrenals for that. Furthermore, as far as MMOs go, sometimes it's hard to get help. Some might not have this experience because they play with their high school/college buddies or their friend from down the street. Some even have been playing MMOs together for a decade. But not everyone have that and some people just plain ole like to do stuff by themselves. besides, sometimes when you do ask for help, especially republic side, they tell you to levle up more or call you x12 nab or some other wise-crap comment, and you're like, you know what, f@%! it! So the survivabilty of each class (solo-wise) is parmaount to the continuity of thre game, as the community is diverse and each player have their own play-style. Right now I am hating end-game because everything relies on group. No point queuing for a storymode flashpoint because nobody is going with random players, and if you don't know what you are doing you get cussed out or kicked. Not sure how you are supposed to know something if you have never done it before. Finally, they have to cater to the diverse community and try to reach a equilibrious point where at least most people are happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turajin Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 How is having a 1 to 55 leveling experience with fully voiced stories and quests not catering to their needs? When I am unable to get through the leveling experience, because I get killed every know and then due to lak of healing abilities, it is not catering to my needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 OP Seems to want healers to be able to keep themselves healed AND kill other players in PVP. (See the 1v1 comment) I do not think you understand game balance. Also, play an Ops/Scoundrel Healer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theUndead Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 When I am unable to get through the leveling experience, because I get killed every know and then due to lak of healing abilities, it is not catering to my needs. That's a computer issue, not the game failing to cater to you. Besides, many others feel quite content with what they have. But, what do mean by healing abilities? Are you a healer class? Or are you wanting healing abilities on other classes? If so, there's a thing called balance and not everything can use everything. Perhaps look at your gear, learn your interrupts etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusramsey Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I do not play pvp of any kind, so I can't comment on that, but in my experience healer classes are by far the easiest to solo stuff with. Exception maybe for stealthers than can skip entire sections. Whether it's just your class missions or heroics or even flashpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasbeer Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 OP Seems to want healers to be able to keep themselves healed AND kill other players in PVP. (See the 1v1 comment) I do not think you understand game balance. Also, play an Ops/Scoundrel Healer... You're missing the point, the multiple decreases in effectiveness across the board have weakened the classes significantly in PVE as a side effect of PVP complaints. Additionally it has reduced most healing classes in a pvp situation where if they are alone they are often incapable of even a decent survival time. What I'm saying is that the class needs something to show for itself in a one on one situation other than an inevitable and quick death. Either boost its survivability some (not talking scoundrel/operative) or give it some ability to fight back to at least take some pressure off itself. Right now in PVE it's slow paced and weak, in PVP it's struggle to keep yourself up as anyone but a healer can pretty much smash up on your face without concern or much time spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasbeer Posted November 16, 2014 Author Share Posted November 16, 2014 Right now I am hating end-game because everything relies on group. No point queuing for a storymode flashpoint because nobody is going with random players, and if you don't know what you are doing you get cussed out or kicked. Not sure how you are supposed to know something if you have never done it before. The problem with groupfinder queue as a solo is this, guilds want to run with guildies. Sometimes a guildmate has to leave and they want to replace the spot but to get commendations or conquest that player needs to use gorupfinder. So what happens is they turn on the replacement feature, then the guildmate queues up. They'll then kick people who get in until they find that guildmate. So in truth the problem lies in the requirement that people use groupfinder. If we did not have this silly requirement then people soloing the groupfinder might actually get into groups and learn the content and get gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezzan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The problem with groupfinder queue as a solo is this, guilds want to run with guildies. Sometimes a guildmate has to leave and they want to replace the spot but to get commendations or conquest that player needs to use gorupfinder. So what happens is they turn on the replacement feature, then the guildmate queues up. They'll then kick people who get in until they find that guildmate. So in truth the problem lies in the requirement that people use groupfinder. If we did not have this silly requirement then people soloing the groupfinder might actually get into groups and learn the content and get gear. There is nothing wrong with going with a guild etc because that's what they are for. And there is a difference with kicking someone who joined the ops while you are already part-way through and kicking someone who is doing "badly" (as it were). Everyone joins a guild whether they playing "solo" or otherwise but sometimes you just have like 5 people on or they are lower than you. And as I mentioned before, Most of the people who do these storymode stuff actually know each other IRL or from previosu MMOs. End-game is exclusively group base. One of the biggest flwas with thsi game that I noticed is that the good stuff comes after level cap. It's very discouraging to go through 3 planets of quests knowing that you can never level up. Anyways, As far as healers go, the only ting i would say is that they should have the ability to boost other players' attributes. Everything goes alot easier if you have a healer in your group so I don't think healers' usefulness is affected by passive heals of other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turajin Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 That's a computer issue, not the game failing to cater to you. In how far is that a computer issue? Do I get different abilities when I use a different computer? Do AMD users have different skill settings that Intel users? Or is it based on the grafik card? In how far can it be a "computer issue"? What are you talking about? Do you even know what you are talking about? Besides, many others feel quite content with what they have. Well, I am quite content with what I have, too. Never ever implied something different. Maybe you should read my post again, and the opening post to get the right understanding what we are talking about. But I can explain it to you: it's the OP who isn't feeling quite content with the abilities other classes have. That's why he insists of stripping other classes of their abilities. And why I feel quite content with the abilities a given class has, I would feel less content if some abilities where stripped away from them because some douche-bag insist of only healers being able to have healing abilities and every non-healer class should not be able to heal even a single point of damage under any circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 i think it's a l2p issue in part, i see people soloing as healer all the time, both endgame and levelling. actually the first role i was able to solo group content with, was healer: oricon heroic, black hole heroic and kinpin bounties. same as for levelling, you can survive more than a self healing dps. and self heals on dps/tanks, rarely save you, maybe an endgame watchman/anni or an adrenaline rush.. same as for PVP: without strong cooldowns or with healers spamming on you, you are not really supposed to survive focus fire. about 1v1, maybe you won't kill a single dps going for you, but you should be able to resist for a long long time, and also healing someone else..i've been through endless number of 2v2 healing, and you can easily outheal one dps and keep alive the other player aswell..and did you ever tried to pvp on a tank in a no-healers wz? if you have issues pvping on a healer, find a pocket tank friend.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 3:You've repeatedly reduced dps/survival/healing for most healing advanced classes and then supplemented it by granting healing to dps/tanks. How is this balanced or fair for those who play as healers in both PVE and PVP? It makes leveling harder, and it makes PVP just a way to tear yourself a new one. You're not potent in 1v1 as a healer, you're not going to have much survival, you can heal but no longer are you really capable of keeping yourself up for very long or others for that matter, and you'll be focus fired the whole time. Don't make the same mistake WOW made, keep healing to the healers. um...what? Leveling? I've had 0 problems leveling as a healer both when the game launched and now. I just got my Commando healer to 55 and had no problems. Sure, the fights lasted longer but my companion never died. I don't get what you're saying, at all. Potent in PVP 1v1? I'm sorry but this is probably one of those times that "learn your class" applies. I can 1v1 very well against most players. Learn to LoS, use your stuns and slows appropriately, don't wait for the last second with 1k HP left to use your best defensive CDs and learn to run behind your DPS when the enemy players approach you. Obviously, there are times when I mess up or don't pay enough attention to my HP and I die, but so what? One thing people seem to not get is that healers exist for support. You are supposed to help your DPS stay alive long enough to kill the enemy DPS if they're decent, not be able to solo kill the enemy DPS. Otherwise there is no point in rolling a DPS. If you could kill anyone with your healer AND heal yourself, what's the point in choosing a DPS spec? With all that in mind, I honestly don't understand what you're doing going 1v1 with your healer. What do you expect to happen? Heal them to death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDucky Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Although, I do understand the points of OP, I think we're far from it. I have myself a very pretty L55 sage seer, and I can assure you, the survival time in PVP is quite impressive. I'll agree that my dps is borderline negligible, since I can not both heal myself or others, and damage enemies at the same time, and that's mighty fine in my opinion. An example of this was during a pvp match, were I stood up to 4 players, they did not manage to kill me, while I was standing around the huttball goal. Since 4 enemies were on me, my team had a fairly easy time getting the ball, jumping to me etc, so we won fairly quickly and easily. For now, I am fairly satisfied with my seer's survivability in PVP, while I stand little of no chance to have an impressive damage output, the fact I manage to either heal myself,others, or simply distract the enemies long enough without dying, is as far as I'm concerned one of my main role in pvp . I never played a smuggler healer, but from what I've seen, they're doing just fine in pvp, as are commandos. Just my opinion on the matter of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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