Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 For leveling and damage/threat/healing in PvE, do you: - select talents that don't give more damage/threat/healing but do something annoying to your enemy - select talents that increase your damage/threat/healing Yeah, I thought so. "Does this add a bunch of extra crap to keep track of?" gets a large say in matters, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 ??? I didn't call out on the spelling, I asked what that that term means. I got no idea (english is not my native tongue). Her. I'm a her, first, based on post history, as I have used female pronouns often. It was a type of Pipe Dream. Pipe dreams are a reference to ancient mythology where a piper used to lure children away while playing a tune that promised things that would never happen. And no, even BW loses a ton of money, I really doubt that they will undo it. Because it makes things easier on the devs to add more levels in the future. Now, you asked for numbers? I'm sorry, I'm not the great Lord Artemis who has links to offer at any given time. I have anecdotal evidence, based on GenChat in the game, which is impossible to really get a count on, and the sheer number of threads against Discipline that has people complaining about purebuilds being made into the only viable builds. Which is funny because BW has been needing abilities to get rid of hybrid builds, or moving key abilities for a role (ex. healer or tank) and moving them further up the trees. Brake=/=break. Brake is a tool used to stop a moving vehicle, such as cars, bicycles, motorcycles, trucks, trains, big machinery. Break is the act of something being damaged, possibly beyond repair. To prevent breaking things, this long delay between announcing Discipline and the actual release of them is to avoid breaking the game's coding, and the game's teetering current balance system. Now, back to the post I just quoted. The way you phrased "(whatever that means)" sounded like you were disregarding my entire point based on a typo, as in, calling out my spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Actually, I did list Hydraulic Override. Chaff Flare was an omission on my part. The point of the list wasn't to argue about the definition of "rotation", it was to demonstrate how silly it was for someone to claim that Arsenal is a 4-button snoozefest (and by implication, that shoehorning the Supercharge mechanic into Arsenal and was-Pyro specs will save it from being so supposedly boring). Arsenal is a 4 button snooze fest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Arsenal is a 4 button snooze fest. So is Darkness/Kinetic Combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Arsenal is a 4 button snooze fest. Already proven largely false, see above, list of abilities routinely or situationally used. It's only a "4-button snoozefest" if you restrict your criteria to tank and spank boss rotations. Of course, as we've seen throughout these threads and discussions, there's a very vocal minority more than willing to dismiss everything else in the game and treat that one aspect as the end-all-, be-all against which all things SWTOR must be judged. If Arsenal has this issue, then so do other "specs" -- just adding another conditional buildup boost won't change that. Edited November 16, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Already proven largely false, see above, list of abilities routinely or situationally used. It's only a "4-button snoozefest" if you restrict your criteria to tank and spank boss rotations. Of course, as we've seen throughout these threads and discussions, there's a very vocal minority more than willing to dismiss everything else in the game and treat that one aspect as the end-all-, be-all against which all things SWTOR must be judged. No, it really is a 4-button snoozefest on any pull you do because it does a lot of damage and things die super fast. Anything else is excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) No, it really is a 4-button snoozefest on any pull you do because it does a lot of damage and things die super fast. Anything else is excessive. OK. E: One example -- on Oricon, there's a group of mobs around an escape pod. One of the mobs is a silver with multiple stuns and a leap. Sure, I could just spam attacks and whether the stuns, blah blah blah whatever. What I prefer to do is use concussions missile on that one, kill the rest, then use Electro Net to keep from leaping, and burn him down before he can close to melee. Why would my character let someone get close and start stunning when there's a way to avoid it? E2: why would I spam your boss rotation at a group of mobs one at a time and let them fire at me, when I can use some AoEs with CC sideeffects to take them all out at once? Edited November 16, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 OK. I know it's hard for you to believe, but there are players who are actually good at this game. Not everyone needs to use every button on every pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) I know it's hard for you to believe, but there are players who are actually good at this game. Not everyone needs to use every button on every pull. Pay close attention, viewers... the "learn to play" argument has been dragged out of its cage and unleashed. Notice the broken fangs and mangy hide on the poor thing... it truly is the most pathetic and sad subspecies of the ad hominem attack. Anyone resorting to this poor creature must indeed be completely lacking in all other options and utterly desperate for the internet point it might scrounge up. Edited November 16, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Pay close attention, viewers... the "learn to play" argument has been dragged out of its cage and unleashed. Notice the broken fangs and mangy hide on the poor thing... it truly is the most pathetic and sad subspecies of the ad hominem attack. Pay close attention, viewers... the "upset because the truth hurts" player is shedding their salty tears of sorrow. We advise you break out your umbrellas, if you wish to stay unaffected. Seriously, Arsenal only needs 4 buttons to murder stuff. Please understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 No, it really is a 4-button snoozefest on any pull you do because it does a lot of damage and things die super fast. Anything else is excessive. Not really. It is a 4-buttons snoozefest in front of your dummy, where max DPS output is calculated. In 'real' gameplay, there are quite a lot of abilities used.. Especially in PvP. That's where you and Max and most people fail to understand the other. When we are talking about how many buttons a rotation needs, we aren't talking about the many situationnal abilities every specs and ACs have. We are talking about the abilities one will use to maximize his output on a single target dummy. Nothing more. And yes Max, this can be correlated to 'real' gameplay since every AC's have relatively the same number of situationnal buttons (take or give three). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Not really. It is a 4-buttons snoozefest in front of your dummy, where max DPS output is calculated. In 'real' gameplay, there are quite a lot of abilities used.. Especially in PvP. That's where you and Max and most people fail to understand the other. When we are talking about how many buttons a rotation needs, we aren't talking about the many situationnal abilities every specs and ACs have. We are talking about the abilities one will use to maximize his output on a single target dummy. Nothing more. And yes Max, this can be correlated to 'real' gameplay since every AC's have relatively the same number of situationnal buttons (take or give three). In real gameplay when I'm doing my dailies, I only need those 4 buttons, they die that easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 In real gameplay when I'm doing my dailies, I only need those 4 buttons, they die that easily. Eh. I thought it was obvious I was talking about challenging content.. Like solo'ing a HM fp, under manning an SM ops, doing HM/NiM ops or doing competitive PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Pay close attention, viewers... the "upset because the truth hurts" player is shedding their salty tears of sorrow. We advise you break out your umbrellas, if you wish to stay unaffected. Thank you for continuing to demonstrate the accuracy of prior observations about the inanely self-absorbed elitism of a certain sort of player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Thank you for continuing to demonstrate the accuracy of prior observations about the inanely self-absorbed elitism of a certain sort of player. Nothing elitism about it. It's 4 buttons, anyone can do it. And not only can anyone do it, they can do it with great success. That's the point. Edited November 16, 2014 by Reno_Tarshil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) In real gameplay when I'm doing my dailies, I only need those 4 buttons, they die that easily. Sure, if you enjoy sitting through stuns and interrupts, getting shoved around by mobs with knock-back powers, and so on, you can just spam away and use raw power to just slam head-first into content over and over again until it breaks before your "skill". Edited November 16, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Sure, if you enjoy sitting through stuns and interrupts, getting shoved around by mobs with knock-back powers, and so on, you can just spam away and use raw power to just slam head-first into content over and over again until it breaks before your "skill". For tracer missile spec, that's exactly how it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Nothing elitism about it. It's 4 buttons, anyone can do it. And not only can anyone do it, they can do it with great success. That's the point. I kinda have to agree. To complete most dailies, my non-raiding-not-doing-hms-bodyguard Merc just uses rapid fire, the dart from level one, and in situations of more that one mob at a time, explosive dart or Death from Above. But in other situations, I would say the situation buttons are higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) For tracer missile spec, that's exactly how it works. To each his own I guess, but that doesn't make the Arsenal spec inherently a 4-button snoozefest -- that's just how you choose to play it. Others prefer to actually take advantage of the full Arsenal and put a little thought into how they take out the enemy. Comes down to the same old fact -- all the changes that Bioware could possibly make won't change how the actual players approach the game. If you choose to make the game a boring, repetitive 4-button slog, nothing that Bioware can do is going to change that for you -- Supercharge is just might make it a 5-button slog. If the game is already an exercise in thought and creativity for other players, adding another extraneous buildup power isn't going to make the game any more "engaging" or "challenging" for them, it's just going to add to the grind factor. Edited November 16, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) To each his own I guess, but that doesn't make the Arsenal spec inherently a 4-button snoozefest -- that's just how you choose to play it. Others prefer to actually take advantage of the full Arsenal and put a little thought into how they take out the enemy. Comes down to the same old fact -- all the changes that Bioware could possibly make won't change how the actual players approach the game. If you choose to make the game a boring, repetitive 4-button slog, nothing that Bioware can do is going to change that for you -- Supercharge is just might make it a 5-button slog. If the game is already an exercise in thought and creativity for other players, adding another extraneous buildup power isn't going to make the game any more "engaging" or "challenging" for them, it's just going to add to the grind factor. You still don't get it. No one is telling you not to use those "extra" buttons. You only need to use the 4 buttons because Arsenal is that easy to use. Stuff dies quickly to those 4 buttons. Edited November 16, 2014 by Reno_Tarshil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 You still don't get it. No one is telling you not to use those "extra" buttons. You only need to use the 4 buttons because Arsenal is that easy to use. Please.. Bring your arsenal merc in PvP against anyone decent. Please. You'll die in horrible flames if you ONLY use those four buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallorik Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Ive never been one to encourage the dumbing down of mmo mechanics but im all for returning to the simple cookie cutter classes of the old school mmos. IMO they don't add enough fun to the game to counter the problems they create in balancing and designing encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) You still don't get it. No one is telling you not to use those "extra" buttons. You only need to use the 4 buttons because Arsenal is that easy to use. Stuff dies quickly to those 4 buttons. No, no, we all get it. Because you can kick the door open, anyone who bothers to turn the knob and push it open on the hinges needs to "learn to play", even though it's smoother and just as fast, because they're not "using all the raw power they can". Edited November 16, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Please.. Bring your arsenal merc in PvP against anyone decent. Please. You'll die in horrible flames if you ONLY use those four buttons. Forever in motion, the future is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 No, no, we all get it. Because you can kick the door open, anyone who bothers to turn the knob and push it open on the hinges needs to "learn to play", even though it's easier and just as fast, because they're not "using all the raw power they can". Why are you so angry? I'm just trying to help you get better at playing an Arsenal Merc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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