LordArtemis Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) Not sure how Cartel Packs are becoming a "problem" for the industry. 1) You in no way shape or form have to buy them to advance in the game. 2) Nothing you buy in the game will advance you further in game then a current subscriber. 3) Everyrhing in then can be sold and bought on the GTN with in-game currency. I don't see how cartel packs could be classified as a "problem". The problem, as perceived by the public, is freemium games or features. Cartel packs "could" be seen as a freemium type device. Paying real money on top of the money you pay for a game or sub to get what you want, not just what you need, is still considered a cash grab in some circles, and lately it's been getting a bit of bad press. But to be clear, I personally feel that cartel packs do not qualify as gambling in the literal or legal sense, and nor do I think they are a detriment to this game, SPECIFICALLY because they can be bought and sold on the GTN. If there was no GTN option one could perhaps make the argument that it could be detrimental. Edited November 7, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 No one has judged anyone. I take it you don't spend much time on these forums. Anytime there is a new cartel pack with a mount or new item you have post where a person says "I opened 150 packs and didn't get the mount". The next post would be something like "you have a problem why would you spend so much money on cartel packs". This is a very common discussion that goes on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 He said "in" the industry, not "for" the industry. One is about us, the other is about the industry. Yeah you like to spin words I see. At least you didn't go into some long winded rant with a shot against religion thrown in the middle this time (which is against the TOS btw). But anyways Cartel Packs are not a problem "in" or "for" the industry. All my points stand for both of your "in" and "for". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Actually they are, just like all microtransactions. The bad press is well known, it's not a secret. http://www.pcgamer.com/microtransactions-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/ http://lawofthegame.com/category/gambling-law/video-game-gambling/ http://www.gamepointsnow.com/blog/the-good-the-bad-and-the-crazy-micro-transactions/ https://www.baekdal.com/opinion/how-inapp-purchases-has-destroyed-the-industry/ http://www.develop-online.net/opinions/gambling-with-gameplay/0117938 http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/09/12/how-microtransactions-are-bad-for-gaming.aspx And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Actually they are, just like all microtransactions. The bad press is well known, it's not a secret. http://www.pcgamer.com/microtransactions-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/ http://lawofthegame.com/category/gambling-law/video-game-gambling/ http://www.gamepointsnow.com/blog/the-good-the-bad-and-the-crazy-micro-transactions/ https://www.baekdal.com/opinion/how-inapp-purchases-has-destroyed-the-industry/ http://www.develop-online.net/opinions/gambling-with-gameplay/0117938 http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/09/12/how-microtransactions-are-bad-for-gaming.aspx And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Sure some may not like them and in many cases when talking about Swtor they forget to mention everything can also be bought in the GTN with ingame currency. You can also find just as many articles claiming the issue with the industry is the "gamers". The f2p came to be because these "gamers" demand things for free. Well it's basic business these games can't survive by giving everything away. Without micro transaction/markets games like LOTRO, Age of Conan, Rift, TSW, and even Swtor would not be around. How can you say that is a problem? All these games give subscribers free currency for subbing. The ones who complain and attempt to say these are bad just want everything handed to them. These same people are the reasons these things exist. Btw journalism went out the window a long time ago. Holding what a few "journalist" think is far from the definition of the right answer especially when most of it is just copy/paste from one article to the other. Edited November 8, 2014 by tdmaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneirophrenia Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Yeah you like to spin words I see. At least you didn't go into some long winded rant with a shot against religion thrown in the middle this time (which is against the TOS btw). But anyways Cartel Packs are not a problem "in" or "for" the industry. All my points stand for both of your "in" and "for". Right......... a rant Apparently the proper usage of verbs and adverbs, simple logic, and citing legal definitions qualifies as "ranting" in your world now. Priceless. Do you deny that the term "gambling" is really just a neutral verb? Your repeated attempts to sever any connection between CM packs with elements of "gambling" would seem to suggest that you view the latter in a rather negative light. Why is that I wonder? Edit: I'll leave you with this. However you view the word "gambling" is your business and you are entitled to attach all kinds of negative connotations in the world to it. However that doesn't make it the correct interpretation nor should everyone accept it as such. You also do not have the authority and knowledge base to define that word within a rather narrow margin considering even federal and state statutes don't go that far. If a game (or mini-game) contains elements of gambling then it is perfectly reasonable to interpret it as such hence, calling a spade a spade. Edited November 8, 2014 by Oneirophrenia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) I am not arguing to the validity of the contentions made in articles that criticize MTs or "gambling" packs, only pointing out they exist, and this is viewed as a problem in the industry....it could be said the way they are viewed by gamers is not exactly postive. And that is a problem the industry probably should deal with. Pointing out the items end up for sale on the GTN, or similar situations would probably help boost the image a bit. Again, to be clear, I do not personally view the packs as low hanging fruit. Edited November 8, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Right......... a rant Apparently the proper usage of verbs and adverbs, simple logic, and citing legal definitions qualifies as "ranting" in your world now. Priceless. Do you deny that the term "gambling" is really just a neutral verb? You repeated attempts to sever any connection between CM packs with any elements of "gambling" would seem to suggest that you view the latter in a rather negative light. Why is that I wonder? No I don't think gambling is a bad term. I've done my fair share myself. I don't see cartel packs as "gambling" just like I don't see baseball cards or the crane game a 5 year old plays at Chucky Cheese "gambling". Btw "ranting" would be your reply to my post. You replied to me with some rant about verbs and adverbs pretending you are some English wiz while throwing in your attempted religious slam which was priceless. It's sad people like you can't leave their intolerance out of a video game forum. You never address my post. So the next time you reply to me try to address my post not some verb adverb anti-religious rant. Thanks... Edited November 8, 2014 by tdmaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneirophrenia Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) No I don't think gambling is a bad term. I've done my fair share myself. I don't see cartel packs as "gambling" just like I don't see baseball cards or the crane game a 5 year old plays at Chucky Cheese "gambling". You don't *see* those games as gambling but is it so unreasonable for others to see it as such? All implied meanings aside, would you agree with the phrase, "risking money in a game of chance with the hope of winning something of value" is an apt and broad description of the term gambling? Btw "ranting" would be your reply to my post. You replied to me with some rant about verbs and adverbs pretending you are some English wiz while throwing in your attempted religious slam which was priceless. It's sad people like you can't leave their intolerance out of a video game forum. You never address my post. So the next time you reply to me try to address my post not some verb adverb anti-religious rant. Thanks... Oh but I did address your post, in my very first sentence as a matter of fact. To rephrase, all of those games you mentioned contained elements of gambling so it can be interpreted as such. I just didn't realize that I have to spell it all out as Y E S for you but duly noted for future reference. As for your allegation of anti-religion slams, just how is pointing out the connection between "gambling" and certain belief systems qualify as a slam? Is it really that inconceivable for me to have stated what I stated as a method to pre-empt anyone who could have potentially came in with an argument such as "but gambling is wrong" or other forms of lecture. Consider my position of "gambling as a standalone verb and as a general practice shouldn't have a negative ring to it" and read what I wrote in my previous post again. Perhaps you are reading far too much into it? Edited November 8, 2014 by Oneirophrenia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 So then a kid opening a box of Cracker Jacks/Cereal hoping for a certain toy has a gambling problem as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneirophrenia Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) So then a kid opening a box of Cracker Jacks/Cereal hoping for a certain toy has a gambling problem as well? Since the kid most likely didn't buy the cereal, no, he/she is not risking any money trying to win something of value. Now if the kid is stealing money from the parents to buy a bunch of cereal boxes trying to get that toy then yes, it can certainly be interpreted as having a gambling problem, among many other potential issues. Ironically, your sarcastic scenario is the perfect example of what I'm talking about when it comes to people needlessly associating gambling with negativity. Since when does someone being engaged in activities that can resemble "gambling" automatically translate to having a "gambling problem"? Edited November 8, 2014 by Oneirophrenia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 So then a kid opening a box of Cracker Jacks/Cereal hoping for a certain toy has a gambling problem as well? I don't think anyone has a problem when they do something one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomla Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Of course people could. But Bioware is a business that is there to generate profit, I don't fault them at all for doing this how they do it. As the consumer, we have all the power to end this for good...we just don't have the will. Pretty much this. People complain about the cartel packs and gamble boxes. They complain about day one dlc or dlc in general. They complain about microtransactions. Problem is the companies are only doing what people will pay for. Some of us may not agree and don't spend money on them but the masses do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxykitten Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 What this weeks episode of South Park. It plays in perfectly with this thought process. sadly...its true i can vouch it between me and my husband so far we both together have spend close to $7,500 usd in packs well hypercrates that is what i can indeed say. is if your very interested in credits. just sell the crate....do not gamble anymore. i have opended over 30 gatekeeper hypercrates never once got satele boots... i however did manage like few of her chest and god awful alot of the gloves/legs.... went thru new set other day. 7 Crates. 1 Dath Chest. 1 Krayt skull 0 Jaral Loads of common **** worth 1-5k.. really its just gambling & a bad one at that when i mean bad i mean litterly bad i could of sold the crates & made roughly 30mil doing so vs the 7mil gain from the packs LOL now krayt/chest have droped so far its just really dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 sadly...its true i can vouch it between me and my husband so far we both together have spend close to $7,500 usd in packs well hypercrates that is Went through the OTP stuff just to write this: Dayum. i mean litterly bad i could of sold the crates & made roughly 30mil doing so vs the 7mil gain from the packs LOL now krayt/chest have droped so far its just really dumb. It appears you do know how the trick, so why didn't u do it, if I may ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 sadly...its true i can vouch it between me and my husband so far we both together have spend close to $7,500 usd in packs well hypercrates that is Yea, consider that is about 23 years of subscription fees (for two people) and there should be no wonder why companies are shifting to the FTP+store format. Definitely where the money is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Well, considering the fact that people sometimes have problems with just PLAYING MMO's, then sure, they could have a problem with cartel packs. Addiction is addiction. Doesn't mean we should ban it or stop it. (unless it's something that contains chemicals that actually addict you to them). I mean, people become addicted to all kinds of stuff. I've seen grown men go mental because they didn't get to read their newspaper in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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