Camelpockets Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Howdy folks! Next summit meeting: December 7th @ 6:00pm PST (Note: This is not intended to spark any forum wars between any types of people. This will merely talk about what the members of the summit have discussed, and future topics that we plan on discussing.) As most people on the forums probably already know, we held our PvE summit last night and discussed mostly logistics of these types of meetings. But besides this, we've found one main issue that mostly everyone was in agreement. I'll start with the logistics: We've decided to make this a recurring event. Every first and third Sunday of every month, at 6pm server, we will hold one of these meetings. Now this was originally created to be a PvE summit. However, some people had questioned about the current status of PvP. While we don't have a set plan for PvP yet, there was discussion of incorperating PvP into these meetings. Now this is for the community to decide, but I do have an opinion on the matter. We can either A) Instead of just a recurring PvE summit, we could include PvP (and possibly RP) and combine it into one large meeting, or B) Hold separate meetings for each of these divisions. I'd personally say B because we had at least over 20 people in the teamspeak channel last night, and trying to include another 20-30 people for RP and PvP would be utter chaos. However, I don't want to completely separate these divisions, so one thing that could happen is bring together the moderators of each of the meetings and briefly discuss what each meeting addressed and see where the paths crossed. This will likely be discussed at the next meeting. The community's main issue is simply the lack of raiders. Now that's just a brief explanation. We've acknowledged the fact that there are people on fleet who do want to raid, but either don't know where to look, or possibly don't even know if they like to raid yet. There are incompetent raid leaders always pugging Story Modes on fleet, running with raid groups that sometimes can't actually finish the whole raid. Some people don't care, but there are some who leave the raid with the illusion that "Oh my these are horrifyingly difficult!" but still try to raid. THESE are the people who we need to look out for. So far, we've came up with a couple ideas, some of which are already in progress: Scheduled (or not) Guild SM Pug runs - Some guilds are already doing this, but the process is as follows: The guild takes X amount of people (however many they feel comfortable bringing), and fill the rest with Pugs. They raid with them, and evaluate each ones' skill and attitude. Skill may not be immediately present with ALL pugs, however, if they have the right attitude, and see possible potential, they guild could take them in and start showing them the ropes. Server Calender (actually more-so a spreadsheet for now) (Link to Spreadsheet) - This is will become a list featuring all raiding guilds (May expand to PvP as well to show Ranked queue times and so forth) with their main raid groups, their scheduled pug runs, active members and their website. This is similar to the BC Guild index, already held my Madelene, but this will include immediate access to these little things that the Index doesn't currently hold. A new help channel - Both Imp and Pub sides now have a help channel. Type in /cjoin pubbasics or /cjoin impbasics to ask any type of question that might not be answered correctly on the fleet. (for those who have not seen it yet. Thanks to Gag and Jake for setting these up, and the other people who I didn't mention. Not that I don't like you, but I didn't know about half the people in the room last night, so it's hard to tell who did what ) Now I probably didn't get ALL of what we talked about last night, however these are some big things that we discussed and actually did or started doing last night to try to help this awesome community. Here is where you can come in to help. Below will be a list of topics that we believe are worth discussing and possibly finding solutions for in the future. All topics will be taken into consideration and will be evaluated by the members of the summit. Though one important reminder: This is NOT a place to bash other players. The purpose of this thread is to HELP OUR COMMUNITY. Criticism will only be accepted if it is constructive. Any bashing against others will result in intensive shunning. (If you are a summit member, you may be denied access to these summit meetings.) Just keep it friendly, and keep it constructive. This will be a small step towards some big changes in the community. We will make the most out of 3.0. I guarantee it. Regards, Camel TOPICS Proper roles of players in PvP Need PvE topics Edited November 17, 2014 by Camelpockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbrad Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Thank you fro DWBI for hosting this and keeping it moderated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankCCMBH Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Aeternum Acsension was happy to be there and will continue to be present at these meetings as long as necessary. Thanks to Sponsered By Giradda for being such a great host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirablade Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I'd like to add that I was a very horrible player. I didn't understand the classes and certainly didn't see the point in pvp and ops. When I finally figured out I was missing out on a couple key points of playing the game, there were people in my guild who would not take the time to teach me so essentially I was not included in their groups. A couple of great guilds (Aeternum Ascension and Second Mass) were happy to train me and run me through the ops, showing me the mechanics and rotations needed to be an asset, rather than a liability to the group. Because of their patience and excellent training, I now have several different guilds who welcome me and seek me out. I cannot say enough how I think this will help out so many people like me who want to participate but haven't had a strong mentor to guide them. My thanks to all of you for participating in this summit and your willingness to train people so that our server has a strong, high quality pool of pvp and ops players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIncentBlaze Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Hey all guess i need to start paying attention to the server forum with 3.0 coming . I'll try to be on for the next summit but I am down to get going on the harder content again. RL makes it a little hard for me with kids but hit me up in game message or whisper Basal my main also have alts you can seek me out on but played all 8 imp classes took my favs and made pub mirrors. As far as the meetings go i would recommend making them separate can even be the same day just different times. To me it seams like the server has gotten a little behind on OPS and ranked. I blame the x12 xp but that is Bioware lots of under-geared 55s. But we can help people out, make the help channels known, give people right advice. you hate seeing an assassin with strength or aim gear... Dulfy.net Guides for the OPS have been helpful to me. Gave me an idea of what to expect in the raid and if you are new looking into ops I suggest checking them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mevarek Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 12x XP isn't the issue for ranked. I see plenty of guilds who have more than enough people to do group ranked on each weekend night. I think the issue is more that they just don't want to get their asses kicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbrad Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Group ranked is more about having the right players to tank and heal and that is why there are so few people doing group ranked. Unless you are an operative healer or have a decent tank (and it takes a different mindset to play a PVP tank well) you are not going to be competitive, which Mev as you say is the fault of not enough people grouping up and learning. I personally would do group ranked more, but my preferred play style and the fact that sorcs are too squishy in a 4v4 environment unless we go hybrid and are typically the 1st target to go down does not work. The only reason I am competitive in Solo ranked is due to lack of co-ordination on the other side. I sometimes yearn for the old days when WZs were a lot more competitive and people were teaching pugs how to play the WZ. The trolling that goes on nowadays and the level of maturity is basically putting off people from getting into WZs or even turning people away from the game. I am sure I am seeing this with rose-tinted glasses but at some point when the game is no longer fun to play people leave. I personally have seen a lot of very good players from both PVE and PVP backgrounds leave this game due to the community and not necessarily due to anything BW has done. But this is for another conversation. I think when we bring up PVP at the summit we could talk about ranked for hours, lets just hope our ego's don't get in the way. To me the general purpose of these kinds of summits is to show people that there are people willing to help you, whether it be in the PVE, PVP or RP side of the game and that although the vocal minority does exist and that trolls will still troll the majority of the people I know from the community have the servers best interest in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The "community" has made it's own bed as far as raiders go. I especially love how the community "judges" people. You complain about a lack of raiders and then you turn about lord over people who you perceive to not be that skilled. Like it takes skill to watch YouTube and then repeat what you see, any ape can mimic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mevarek Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Group ranked is more about having the right players to tank and heal and that is why there are so few people doing group ranked. Unless you are an operative healer or have a decent tank (and it takes a different mindset to play a PVP tank well) you are not going to be competitive, which Mev as you say is the fault of not enough people grouping up and learning. I personally would do group ranked more, but my preferred play style and the fact that sorcs are too squishy in a 4v4 environment unless we go hybrid and are typically the 1st target to go down does not work. The only reason I am competitive in Solo ranked is due to lack of co-ordination on the other side. I sometimes yearn for the old days when WZs were a lot more competitive and people were teaching pugs how to play the WZ. The trolling that goes on nowadays and the level of maturity is basically putting off people from getting into WZs or even turning people away from the game. I am sure I am seeing this with rose-tinted glasses but at some point when the game is no longer fun to play people leave. I personally have seen a lot of very good players from both PVE and PVP backgrounds leave this game due to the community and not necessarily due to anything BW has done. But this is for another conversation. I think when we bring up PVP at the summit we could talk about ranked for hours, lets just hope our ego's don't get in the way. To me the general purpose of these kinds of summits is to show people that there are people willing to help you, whether it be in the PVE, PVP or RP side of the game and that although the vocal minority does exist and that trolls will still troll the majority of the people I know from the community have the servers best interest in mind. I'm willing to voice my opinion on ranked sometime. I still think that guilds should queue within their guilds for group ranked or schedule ranked nights with other guilds who are still getting the feel for ranked. Group ranked is like NM content. Unlike NM, however, you can't prepare yourself by doing regs or solo ranked, you just have to queue up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloi_BG Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Thanks to Camels for his work, to Caveh for his hosting and to everyone who was there yesterday. I was wondering if we should include a quick (2-3 lines) guild description in the spreadsheet, or if that was not the point of it. Other thing, since many people don't read the forums, I will advertise the post from time to time when I am on fleet (rep side, I am starting to play imp side but not that much yet) and I encourage everyone who supports this "movement" to do so, because I think I can be a great thing for this server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camelpockets Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 Thanks to Camels for his work, to Caveh for his hosting and to everyone who was there yesterday. I was wondering if we should include a quick (2-3 lines) guild description in the spreadsheet, or if that was not the point of it. Other thing, since many people don't read the forums, I will advertise the post from time to time when I am on fleet (rep side, I am starting to play imp side but not that much yet) and I encourage everyone who supports this "movement" to do so, because I think I can be a great thing for this server. I could just copy and paste the ones in the BC guild index. Or include a link to the spreadsheet in that thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunpaulstewart Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I think this is a great idea. Unfortunately I did not find out about this until today 11/3/14 however I or a member of my guild Forceborn plan on attending the next meeting. I would like to say I think we need to focus more on PvE because I am one of those guys out there that wants to raid... but end up not doing it because people drop out or make it hard. If that makes any sense. I have several in my guild that are the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirablade Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I have to disagree with some of the nay-sayers, For me personally, I know EXACTLY what to do in pvp. I understand my role and I understand the basics, as in fight on the turrets, call out inc, etc. What I have experienced in pvp is that people will leave our turret and then I, typically on my healer, is left guarding which as you all know is a really bad decision. The one good thing I can say about WoW pvp is that people protected their healers better. That is not the case in SWTOR. I'd like to understand why the team wouldn't protect the people who can keep them alive. It seems like people run amok with no plan and no concept of what needs to happen. My most successful runs are typically with my guild because we use TeamSpeak and have a plan. It seems to me those plans are really simplistic and should be utilized universally, What I find though are people like Okiko and Jodokast who complain yet contribute minimally to the success of the team. I'd like to postulate a theory perhaps that the ones who complain the most yet contribute the least (and typically bail in the middle of the match regardless of who's winning) are the problem. It would be great if we could learn our roles in PVP, learn the objectives and then work as a team to win. I am not a strong PVP player but because I understand the aforementioned items it does make me a good player. My perception overall (and I don't mean to sound sexist - this is just observation from 3 years into this game) is that we have a lot of young male players with lots of testosterone who feel they have a lot to prove but do not actually exert the will to do so. There is a lot of braggadocio and "member measuring" - which as a female I do find puzzling but that is a different topic altogether. If we as a group could put our pride, our self-esteem issues, etc. and come together as a united front to work together we could seriously make this a kick *** server. I know many of you are amazing players and I would love to have your skills, but to the rest of us who struggle, it would be in everyone's best interest if we put our pride to the side and concentrate on the greater good. Overall, this is a great game and I want to see it continue long after WoW is lying in ashes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecheesebandit Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I'm a bit confused and/or curious as to why an already developed calendar used for scheduling raids just for our server (leftovers) is being so egregiously overlooked. What is the purpose of the spreadsheet you're starting? I imagine its so we know the availability of subs for our own raid groups, or so we know when HM pugs happen? Friends lists kind of nullify the need for the first one, and if all HM pugs get scheduled in the same place then that really streamlines and simplifies the second. Just fill me in with the thinking here. I mentioned leftovers during the summit and sonette offered to set people up with it and there was just like radio silence before we jumped to arguing about what a real progression guild is or something equally inane. I hope next time it is much more moderated and more topics are discussed BEFORE the summit so we don't have random ideas like starting new channels imp and pub side for things which should be done in-guild or using the plethora of guides out there (improving player skill and refining rotation). Time will tell if anything becomes of it, but do you seriously expect a new player to subscribe to a new channel put on by BCers before they find out about dulfy and guides on the class forums? If someone is truly seeking excellence in gameplay they really don't need a mentor other than a push in the right direction from guided plus their own dedication to parsing and seeing what works. I also had to spam fleet a LOT to get /raids on imp side rolling and still pugs don't know about the channel. I realize I've gotten a bit negative here but I felt the same sentiment from a lot of people. If I was just giving up on the summit I would simply remove myself from involvement but I'd rather give constructive criticism than abandon ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haivon Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I'm a bit confused and/or curious as to why an already developed calendar used for scheduling raids just for our server (leftovers) is being so egregiously overlooked. What is the purpose of the spreadsheet you're starting? I imagine its so we know the availability of subs for our own raid groups, or so we know when HM pugs happen? Friends lists kind of nullify the need for the first one, and if all HM pugs get scheduled in the same place then that really streamlines and simplifies the second. Just fill me in with the thinking here. I mentioned leftovers during the summit and sonette offered to set people up with it and there was just like radio silence before we jumped to arguing about what a real progression guild is or something equally inane. I hope next time it is much more moderated and more topics are discussed BEFORE the summit so we don't have random ideas like starting new channels imp and pub side for things which should be done in-guild or using the plethora of guides out there (improving player skill and refining rotation). Time will tell if anything becomes of it, but do you seriously expect a new player to subscribe to a new channel put on by BCers before they find out about dulfy and guides on the class forums? If someone is truly seeking excellence in gameplay they really don't need a mentor other than a push in the right direction from guided plus their own dedication to parsing and seeing what works. I also had to spam fleet a LOT to get /raids on imp side rolling and still pugs don't know about the channel. I realize I've gotten a bit negative here but I felt the same sentiment from a lot of people. If I was just giving up on the summit I would simply remove myself from involvement but I'd rather give constructive criticism than abandon ship. Your negativity sounds like Zuhara. You seem to be evolving into a Zuhara, now that he's banned who will take is place? ... Nothing to fear, Vakka is here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keirablade Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 So, granted people can do their homework but then there is an argument you can watch unfold on fleet. People will say certain sites like Dulfy are the SWTOR Bible and others will say Dulfy is a hack. Also, people don't always know there are forums that provide great information or for people like me, really don't have the time to spend HOURS searching the web for an answer to one question. That is why people like me go to those who are knowledgeable and are proven to be quite proficient in pvp, ops, gear, etc. From my perspective, the people I run with are more reliable than most sites and forums. I think for the people who do suggest do your own homework and stop bothering me, they want the fancy house but don't want to work for it. In other words, they want a server full of experts but don't want to do anything to contribute to the betterment of gameplay on the server. Complaining and negativity result in others having a bad opinion about that person and an unwillingness to have them join their groups, regardless of how well they play. I for one am more than happy to help others, even if my own stores of knowledge is limited. We were all noobs once; it's time to pay it forward... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camelpockets Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 I'm a bit confused and/or curious as to why an already developed calendar used for scheduling raids just for our server (leftovers) is being so egregiously overlooked. What is the purpose of the spreadsheet you're starting? I imagine its so we know the availability of subs for our own raid groups, or so we know when HM pugs happen? Friends lists kind of nullify the need for the first one, and if all HM pugs get scheduled in the same place then that really streamlines and simplifies the second. Just fill me in with the thinking here. I mentioned leftovers during the summit and sonette offered to set people up with it and there was just like radio silence before we jumped to arguing about what a real progression guild is or something equally inane. I hope next time it is much more moderated and more topics are discussed BEFORE the summit so we don't have random ideas like starting new channels imp and pub side for things which should be done in-guild or using the plethora of guides out there (improving player skill and refining rotation). Time will tell if anything becomes of it, but do you seriously expect a new player to subscribe to a new channel put on by BCers before they find out about dulfy and guides on the class forums? If someone is truly seeking excellence in gameplay they really don't need a mentor other than a push in the right direction from guided plus their own dedication to parsing and seeing what works. I also had to spam fleet a LOT to get /raids on imp side rolling and still pugs don't know about the channel. I realize I've gotten a bit negative here but I felt the same sentiment from a lot of people. If I was just giving up on the summit I would simply remove myself from involvement but I'd rather give constructive criticism than abandon ship. I believe the purpose of this new spreadsheet (if people actually contribute to it) is somewhat similar to the Leftovers page, but a little more organized. It simply lets the community know who does what, and possibly find ways for members of the BC community to become involved, much like your website. But who's to say that this stuff will actually work? I don't have a damn clue. Perhaps nothing will change, or perhaps the opposite; it will let the community know that there are places to go if they need help, or if they would like to start raiding at a higher difficulty. If we want this to work, we need to tell the community what's out here. They aren't just going to stumble upon it randomly. (Most of the time anyways.) We need to tell them about leftovers, we need to tell them about the new spreadsheet/calender, and we need to tell tell them about the help channels so they can better themselves. Of course we're not going to get a ton of people. Hell, I'd be damned it more than 20% of the casual endgame community finds out about the stuff. But we need to find that 20%, and tell them that BC is still alive and kicking. That is the only way that any of this will work. (Yes I'm aware this is coming from a guy who hasn't been playing for a while. I just got fed up with the lack of content. I'm still coming back for 3.0, ready to kill some stuff.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowmanSD Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 sorcs are too squishy in a 4v4 environment unless we go hybrid and are typically the 1st target to go down does not work. I lol'd.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehbuse Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) The "community" has made it's own bed as far as raiders go. I especially love how the community "judges" people. You complain about a lack of raiders and then you turn about lord over people who you perceive to not be that skilled. This ^ Like I said before, the attitude of people who raid (and proclaim themselves raiders or "hardcore") needs to change. This summit is heading in the right direction, but untill people can be more open minded towards new raiders or newer faces then it's all moot. Edited November 4, 2014 by Ehbuse Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duelsaberman Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 sorcs are too squishy in a 4v4 environment unless we go hybrid and are typically the 1st target to go down does not work. This is another reason people do not queue for group ranked. They don't queue because they have these false understandings of how group ranked goes. Sorcs are the most popular dps class to bring on your ranked team atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Fred Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I lol'd.... well to be fair when playing 11/10/9 spec you don't get alot of built in defensives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mevarek Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 sorcs are toohard m8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) U wot m8? Sorc double slash OP. Get globaled. Edited November 5, 2014 by PoliteAssasin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxAstarte Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 As a returning player, currently unguilded, I am very interested to see how this develops. It sounds like a lot of rebuilding needs to be done, and I want those who are doing the hard work in that vein to know it's appreciated, even by those of us not directly effected. (As yet) I wish you patience, give and take, and as many asbestos undies as it takes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mevarek Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 U wot m8? Sorc double slash OP. Get globaled. The double thrashing sorc burst comp has globalled many an operative healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts