Alec_Fortescue Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Many people seem to complain about dps remaining within similar level in 3.0. What's wrong with that? Sooner or later they'd have to do it. I am sort of an idiot, which is widely known, so please - can you give me some idiot-friendly reasoning behind your unhappiness with dps not increasing much? Edited November 3, 2014 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTap Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Some people (including me) don't necessarily enjoy buying an expansion, getting a level increase/new tiers of gear, only to see the same numbers we were seeing months ago. Yes it's an arbitrary number, but I would rather they get increased with new levels and gear, not decreased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Many people seem to complain about dps remaining within similar level in 3.0. What's wrong with that? Sooner or later they'd have to do it. I believe, the general fear is that unless the content is rebalanced to the lower numbers, there will be an increase in difficulty at level 55. I am fairly convinced that this is something that internal metrics are going to sort out, to keep the relative difficulty at level 55 the same. The end result is that DF and DP NiM may actually see a relative difficulty increase at level 55. I suspect this angers people who were hoping to see the relative difficulty of those operations go down so they would have an easier time farming it or beating it. A fair concern, but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Yes it's an arbitrary number, but I would rather they get increased with new levels and gear, not decreased. So, you are more concerned about arbitrary numbers than actually useful numbers like TTK or level-to-level damage ratios... ...Well, okay. However, that just tells me that your concerns shouldn't be weighed very heavily, as even you admit that they aren't based on any substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Some people (including me) don't necessarily enjoy buying an expansion, getting a level increase/new tiers of gear, only to see the same numbers we were seeing months ago. Yes it's an arbitrary number, but I would rather they get increased with new levels and gear, not decreased. So, basically you want what WoW used to be, am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Many people seem to complain about dps remaining within similar level in 3.0. What's wrong with that? Sooner or later they'd have to do it. Wait, are you saying a man's DPS is not proportional to his (unmentionable) size? 'Cause my wife has been telling me that if I can improve my parses, "it" will get bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTap Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 So, you are more concerned about arbitrary numbers than actually useful numbers like TTK or level-to-level damage ratios... ...Well, okay. However, that just tells me that your concerns shouldn't be weighed very heavily, as even you admit that they aren't based on any substance. I'm not more concerned with that at all. They could easily balance ttk around any dps number, it doesn't have to be lower. So, basically you want what WoW used to be, am I right? WoW isn't even relevant here, as we are about 100 years away from hitting those numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) So basically they're doing this so players cant solo Tactical Flashpoints or do 8 man Ops with like 4 players... Pretty lame. Edited November 3, 2014 by chosonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Some people (including me) don't necessarily enjoy buying an expansion, getting a level increase/new tiers of gear, only to see the same numbers we were seeing months ago. Yes it's an arbitrary number, but I would rather they get increased with new levels and gear, not decreased. Whereas some of us are worried about the relative numbers. I don't pay much attention to the little numbers that pop up, I pay attention to how long it takes and how exacting the execution has to be to get through content. If, say, Oricon dailies take a couple extra minutes to complete because damage numbers are marginally down, I'll shrug and move on. If the Oricon dailes suddenly become like they were when I first landed, require a lot of care and so on, and take twice as long or more, that's an entirely different story. At this point, I'm not doing Oricon "because challenge", I'm doing it for the credits, and I want to get it done so I can move on to other things. Edited November 3, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 There is nothing wrong with it, except the all important ratios seem to be too complicated for the average warrior to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I'm not more concerned with that at all. You do care, though. You've posted many times already about how sad it makes you that the number is lower, despite the numerous times its been explained to you. You have no evidence that TTK is rising, and we have pretty strong evidence that level-to-level ratios are remaining the same. But its that number that is upsetting you. They could easily balance ttk around any dps number, it doesn't have to be lower. You're not seeing the problem, though. As they said very clearly, and as many people have explained to you, the problem is that the top tier damage is beyond what they designed for. Basically, the gear is fine up to Purple-156, but ratings higher than that start rising too high. If they don't bring them down, then they need to codify them as the new damage curve for levels 56-60. Remember, Ops-standard 180 gear is going to be Basic Commendation gear (actually, worse than Basic, but whatever) for 56-60. That means that all the content for 56-60 needs to have its HP/Armor inflated to the excessive damage level that 180 gear provides. And then, in order to maintain value-for-progression, they need to keep inflating the gear up to 192. If they add extra levels later, that needs to be inflated even more. ...and then, when they add the next expansion, they need to account for the compounded inflation yet again. Do you see what is happening here? They're trying to remove a "bump" in the damage-per-rating curve. That's a good thing. You want that. ... at least, you want it if you put the health and balance of the game over your emotional attachment to an arbitrary number which seems to define your character's self-esteem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 So basically they're doing this so players cant solo Tactical Flashpoints or do 8 man Ops with like 4 players... Pretty lame. No, and that is not even a good guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 So many threads about the DPS being lowered. So many. I wonder how many more we'll get before 3.0 hits. 5 more? 10? 20? 30? It's anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 If the Oricon dailes suddenly become like they were when I first landed, require a lot of care and so on, and take twice as long or more, that's an entirely different story. Do you have any actual evidence that might be the case? Or are you still complaining about "If..."? If they make it so that the new 186 gear costs 20x the Basic Commendations of 140 gear... If they make it so that one of the two new planets is used for just one quest... If the new PvP gear contains no weapons or off-hands.... If the new Operations require that every group have at least 3 Armstech players.... There are loads of "Ifs..." that I can come up with that would upset me. Want to know why I'm not making a bunch of threads complaining about them? Because I have no evidence to say that any of them are occurring. Do you have any evidence that they are lowering the DPS but keeping HP and Amor ratings exactly the same for Oricon? Or are you just whining about an assumption you made based on a lack-of-information on your part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 People don't like their numbers going down. - Numbers will be reduced - If you actually watched the stream or can read between the lines from Dulfy's notes then you know that relative damage output isn't going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTap Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 You do care, though. You've posted many times already about how sad it makes you that the number is lower If they don't bring them down, then they need to codify them as the new damage curve for levels 56-60. Remember, Ops-standard 180 gear is going to be Basic Commendation gear (actually, worse than Basic, but whatever) for 56-60. That means that all the content for 56-60 needs to have its HP/Armor inflated to the excessive damage level that 180 gear provides. And then, in order to maintain value-for-progression, they need to keep inflating the gear up to 192. If they add extra levels later, that needs to be inflated even more. I admitted I cared already, however you're exaggerating on the making me sad part. I understand why they're doing it, and maybe you feel that it's a necessary fix, but I don't. Even if it's not intended that we're doing so much damage, since it doesn't affect leveling, and for the most part people don't want to do the old operations anymore after 1 year of running them, why not just continue to give us noticeable increases with gear? I guess I just don't see the 'inflation' being a problem yet when we're only at 4k dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Do you have any evidence that they are lowering the DPS but keeping HP and Amor ratings exactly the same for Oricon? Judge: Mr. Hutz we've been in here for four hours. Do you have any evidence at all? Lionel Hutz: Well, Your Honor, we've plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are kinds of evidence. -- The Simpsons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 No no, they would call it a nerf. After all, I could eat all the babies I wanted before 3.0 came out. Now my baby eating capacity has been reduced to a smaller number of babies. HOW DARE THEY NERF MY BABY EATING??? This isn't the first time I've seen a nerf. Pretty sure there were some nerf roaming around on Alderaan. Nerf. It's what's for dinner. Also, Baby-Eating Kephass Confirmed for 4.0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Do you have any actual evidence that might be the case? Or are you still complaining about "If..."? We don't have any hard evidence either way, and both situations I mentioned are absolutely possible under the statements that Bioware has made so far. When the hell did it become "stupid" to be concerned about things that could possibly go wrong? How many different ways do I have to say "If it's X, my reaction will be A, if it's Y, my reaction will be B", leaving open both possibilities. Edited November 3, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 If HP goes up, and DPs either decreases or even remains the same, ttk will increase. That's just basic math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 If HP goes up, and DPs either decreases or even remains the same, ttk will increase. That's just basic math. Who said level 55 enemy HP is going up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Who said level 55 enemy HP is going up? Stat squish doesn't just apply to pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Stat squish doesn't just apply to pve. If your opponent in PVP is subject to the same stat squish, then TTK and TTD will be affected proportionally. Which means the playing field remains unchanged. Edit: That is to say, it doesn't matter if your TTK goes up, if your opponent's TTK goes up by just as much. Edited November 3, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Many people seem to complain about dps remaining within similar level in 3.0. What's wrong with that? Sooner or later they'd have to do it. In a progression game it's a bit hard to swallow that you went from level 55 to 60. Gaining 5 levels just to make it back to 55. Almost as if you never leveled at all. But here is the real kicker. Did it really solve anything? After all, you're back where you started and at the place BW claims is a DPS problem, assuming their metrics on DPS is right. (to which I doubt it because if they were right, DPS would have never gotten out of hand to start with) Did it stop the power creep all leveling and progression MMO's have? No it does not unless BW makes sure you never actually go above level 55 power even though they make you go through the steps of leveling up. The leveling just turns into an illusion. You never actually progressed beyond 55. At 65 are we going to still be the equivalent of 55? Can't have gamers doing to much can we? So at that point, whats the point of this pretend leveling? When you really are not leveling at all. You look like you're leveling but underneth, you're roughly the same as the point you started. So, How does this really help? It doesn't except to allow BW to keep in place 2 year old, tired and worn out OPS as alternate ways to get comms for high end gear. Ops that should truly be placed into the nostalgic area of the game. I don't think it's so much about DPS as it is DPS being decreased just to keep 2 level 55 OPS out there as if it was relevant content at level 60. Edited November 3, 2014 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Stat squish doesn't just apply to pve. Wait a minute. Isn't PvP armor considered to be inferior because of lower endurance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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