Jimvinny Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) I don't need to be protected from myself. I need to be protected from Joe Griefer, that will try everything he can to force me to engage in PvP. That's why we have PvP servers, with an "always on" rule set. If I were rolling there, you'd bet you'd never hear one word about being "ganked" or "griefed" from me. There's a reason the pops are low on PvP servers, despite all the talk, people really aren't all that in to it. If they were, there wouldn't be a decline in population. What causes that decline? Maybe things like this: 55 Assassin, camping Outpost Thorazan, waiting for unsuspecting players to come out, so he can get his "PvP" on. I ask you, why isn't this 55 Assassin waiting outside the Pub base on Oricon instead? Simple, if he were, he'd get rolled. Why is the stealther in the OP using the tactic he's using? Because when he tried to straight up PvP against willing opponents, he got rolled? There's a reason people get up in arms to defend this behavior; if it gets fixed, they won't be able to compare epeens with their buddies. That's fine, I don't support that type of "PvP", if you can even call it that. That is griefing. But those situations are few and far between. And don't warrant a change to a system that is working fine as is. Edit* I don't think anyone would try to defend the type of behavior described in the op. What did happen was op was told why what he was doing was wrong, and he owned it. Edited November 4, 2014 by Jimvinny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItachiZaku Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You CANNOT be flagged by aoe'ing a flagged opponent. You have to directly target them with a single target ability. Stop spreading misinformation. The exploding monk orb in WoW would flag you. I'm sure there are those AoE abilities in SWTOR that aren't broken like that as well. Kinda like how some tanks aoe taunt will taunt 400 feet, instead of 40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) MOS? I mean, I can tell you anything, it's not like you can dispute it. However, 12B, Basic/AIT at Fort Lost in the Woods. Since the latter is pretty well known in Military circles, I'd expect you know where that is? I had OSUT as well. I was 11B, got my training at Ft Benning, GA, Bravo 9-2, Harmony Church. That last bit should give a clue as to how long ago I attended Basic/AIT. BTW...Waynesville is almost exactly the same. Edited November 4, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) The exploding monk orb in WoW would flag you. I'm sure there are those AoE abilities in SWTOR that aren't broken like that as well. Kinda like how some tanks aoe taunt will taunt 400 feet, instead of 40. Accidental flag bugs are so few and far between that they don't deserve any attention. Edited November 4, 2014 by Jimvinny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOneOne Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) MOS? I mean, I can tell you anything, it's not like you can dispute it. However, 12B, Basic/AIT at Fort Lost in the Woods. Since the latter is pretty well known in Military circles, I'd expect you know where that is? Don't expect much of an answer. Now he is just reporting people that challenge him. Just got a warning. Edited November 4, 2014 by HammerOneOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Accidental flag bugs are so few and far between that they don't deserve any attention. Considering the complaints in general chat, they aren't that few and far between, most people just don't post on the forums. It is definitely something that needs to be fixed and the fix should be relatively easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Considering the complaints in general chat, they aren't that few and far between, most people just don't post on the forums. It is definitely something that needs to be fixed and the fix should be relatively easy. Disagree. The issue of this thread was that the OP didn't know you could turn off auto-targeting. With that in mind, their scenario would have played out very differently. A little knowledge far outweighs a lot of complaining... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOneOne Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 They're few and far I between until there is an event and then it is not a rare event. I don't understand what the attraction griefers have to these events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Considering the complaints in general chat, they aren't that few and far between, most people just don't post on the forums. It is definitely something that needs to be fixed and the fix should be relatively easy. Most people complaining in gen chat are woefully ignorant of how in game mechanics work, and probably simply auto targeted an enemy without realizing it. Or they had a situation similar to OP's. This is way more likely than a true bug occurring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 They're few and far I between until there is an event and then it is not a rare event. I don't understand what the attraction griefers have to these events. Again, what happened to the OP was not a bug. And if you can't see the attraction for griefers, it's no wonder you think it's a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOneOne Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Again, what happened to the OP was not a bug. And if you can't see the attraction for griefers, it's no wonder you think it's a bug. I think you are misunderstanding my intent. It is griefing, I don't agree with it, and when it happens I report that person. I'm just saying I don't see it much until there is an event and then it happens often. What happened to the OP could happen pretty much anytime and anywhere. Couldn't it? So what is it about these events that attracts all the griefers. I really don't understand that's why I'm asking. Edited November 4, 2014 by HammerOneOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Most people complaining in gen chat are woefully ignorant of how in game mechanics work, and probably simply auto targeted an enemy without realizing it. Or they had a situation similar to OP's. This is way more likely than a true bug occurring. Does it matter? The fix is easy. The only reason to not want to see it fixed is so that griefing can continue. How someone got flagged doesn't matter. The fact that someone on a PVE server got flagged who didn't want to is the problem. What excuses people make, what the player knows or doesn't know are totally irrelevant. The fact that the game allows it to happen is a problem and should be fixed. Every time this type of discussion comes up a bunch of griefers come in and oppose any fix. It's time BW has to either decide to fix the problem or decide to support the griefers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Does it matter? The fix is easy. The only reason to not want to see it fixed is so that griefing can continue. How someone got flagged doesn't matter. The fact that someone on a PVE server got flagged who didn't want to is the problem. What excuses people make, what the player knows or doesn't know are totally irrelevant. The fact that the game allows it to happen is a problem and should be fixed. Every time this type of discussion comes up a bunch of griefers come in and oppose any fix. It's time BW has to either decide to fix the problem or decide to support the griefers. Or, because the ability to channel a first strike on a flagged character is tactically advantageous and removing that option because people can't control their tab key is absurd. That is to say, if I see someone flagged, I shouldn't have to flag myself to attack them... if I want first strike, that's my opportunity... and that's something that currently, all flagged players know they are dealing with. Bottom line, no fix is needed because all you have to do is not target a flagged player. Turn off auto-target and it's near impossible you will "accidentally" flag. Edit: For clarity, when I say "flag myself to attack them" I mean pre-flag myself. I want to flag on damage dealt; gives a surprise and tactical element. Ironically, self-flagging may let the enemy hit you first... how is that fair? Edited November 4, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Or, because the ability to channel a first strike on a flagged character is tactically advantageous and removing that option because people can't control their tab key is absurd. That is to say, if I see someone flagged, I shouldn't have to flag myself to attack them... if I want first strike, that's my opportunity... and that's something that currently, all flagged players know they are dealing with. Bottom line, no fix is needed because all you have to do is not target an enemy. This. Over and over and over again. THIS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanNV Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Or, because the ability to channel a first strike on a flagged character is tactically advantageous and removing that option because people can't control their tab key is absurd. That is to say, if I see someone flagged, I shouldn't have to flag myself to attack them... if I want first strike, that's my opportunity... and that's something that currently, all flagged players know they are dealing with. Bottom line, no fix is needed because all you have to do is not target a flagged player. Turn off auto-target and it's near impossible you will "accidentally" flag. Edit: For clarity, when I say "flag myself to attack them" I mean pre-flag myself. I want to flag on damage dealt; gives a surprise and tactical element. Ironically, self-flagging may let the enemy hit you first... how is that fair? You're wrong. Simple as that. If you want to attack someone, toggle your flag. It's not complicated and having to do that totally removes the griefing aspect. Don't want to have to toggle your flag, play on a PVP server. As it stands now the system is abused by griefers and that is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) You're wrong. Simple as that. If you want to attack someone, toggle your flag. It's not complicated and having to do that totally removes the griefing aspect. Don't want to have to toggle your flag, play on a PVP server. As it stands now the system is abused by griefers and that is the problem. You're in no position to accuse some of being incorrect. As the system currently stands, it is you that is wrong. Learn how the system works, don't tab target or auto attack, and you won't have any griefers to worry about. You can only be griefed on a pve server by being ignorant of how mechanics work. And ignorance is the only problem here. Edited November 4, 2014 by Jimvinny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordarn Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Ive noticed that the solution for those opposing having the system changed to having to flag yourself (manually clicking your flag on) is not targeting the flagged individual; but let me say that if bioware took fifteen minutes to change the flagging system to where you have to manually flag yourself would fix a lot of accidents like mine where the auto target was turned on (aware or unaware of it being turned on) and therefore thinning the amount of arguments like these on the forums. Sure it may take away some of the advantages of being able to get the the first strike (or maybe just make it harder) but it would ensure a safer gameplay for those wanting to just have fun with their dailies. Not to mention you should not have to take auto target off for fear of someone trying to take advantage of it like I think the person who ganked me did. Edited November 4, 2014 by Cordarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerOneOne Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You're in no position to accuse some of being incorrect. As the system currently stands, it is you that is wrong. Learn how the system works, don't tab target or auto attack, and you won't have any griefers to worry about. You can only be griefed on a pve server by being ignorant of how mechanics work. And ignorance is the only problem here. Just because it can happen doesn't mean it is working as intended. Until Bioware says something one way or the other you are not correct either. And frankly since the system is in place to keep pvp'rs from forcing pve'rs into pvp I'm inclined to believe that the op was griefed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) Just because it can happen doesn't mean it is working as intended. Until Bioware says something one way or the other you are not correct either. And frankly since the system is in place to keep pvp'rs from forcing pve'rs into pvp I'm inclined to believe that the op was griefed. It IS working as intended when a player knows how it works. OP didn't. And he was griefed. No question about that. But it was due to his ignorance, and he admitted that. As for who is correct, you most definitely are not. I am, until bioware states differently. If they haven't seen fit to change it by now, they probably won't. In this case, silence implies consent. Edited November 4, 2014 by Jimvinny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) It IS working as intended when a player knows how it works. OP didn't. And he was griefed. No question about that. But it was due to his ignorance, and he admitted that. As for who is correct, you most definitely are not. I am, until bioware states differently. If they haven't seen fit to change it by now, they probably won't. In this case, silence implies consent. Actually, they haven't been 100% silent. They did change the system to not trigger pvp flag for flagged enemies that ran into your AoE's. So they are minimizing unfair griefing; however, this whole thread stemmed from a misunderstanding of the auto-targeting mechanics. Entirely different case; ignorance is not a systemic issue. Perhaps better UI indication that you can disable it? Maybe that's a fair suggestion; not sure myself. What I am sure of is that the flagging system is not what is failing players. You're wrong. Simple as that. If you want to attack someone, toggle your flag. It's not complicated and having to do that totally removes the griefing aspect. Don't want to have to toggle your flag, play on a PVP server. As it stands now the system is abused by griefers and that is the problem. Again, the griefers are taking advantage of people's auto-targeting woes, not the flagging system. If you want to not get flagged for pvp, watch what you target. Until then, yeah... I want the ability to see a lone flagged player and pre-cast to put fear into their heart for being so non-nonchalant about their flag, such should be my ability. I should not have to expose my intent because certain people don't know how to control their auto- and tab-targeting. Edited November 4, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You're wrong. Simple as that. If you want to attack someone, toggle your flag. It's not complicated and having to do that totally removes the griefing aspect. Don't want to have to toggle your flag, play on a PVP server. As it stands now the system is abused by griefers and that is the problem. Abused?! LOL! They're taking advantage of lazy and sloppy players who tab randomly through things without a care in the world. It's these lazy players who unwillingly target another player who I believe are abusing the system...you don't even know WHAT you're attacking, you're just spamming buttons...that's completely sloppy and lazy imo. If someone is so lazy that they won't even target their own enemies, I have zero sympathy if they accidentally hit another player and then get beaten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Does it matter? The fix is easy. The only reason to not want to see it fixed is so that griefing can continue. How someone got flagged doesn't matter. The fact that someone on a PVE server got flagged who didn't want to is the problem. What excuses people make, what the player knows or doesn't know are totally irrelevant. The fact that the game allows it to happen is a problem and should be fixed. Every time this type of discussion comes up a bunch of griefers come in and oppose any fix. It's time BW has to either decide to fix the problem or decide to support the griefers. Simple, he should not attack other players, then he won't get flagged. OP directly attacked another player, no bug, no AOE, no auto nothing. Then he came here to weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Abused?! LOL! They're taking advantage of lazy and sloppy players who tab randomly through things without a care in the world. It's these lazy players who unwillingly target another player who I believe are abusing the system...you don't even know WHAT you're attacking, you're just spamming buttons...that's completely sloppy and lazy imo. If someone is so lazy that they won't even target their own enemies, I have zero sympathy if they accidentally hit another player and then get beaten. Panic Button Mashing FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Panic Button Mashing FTW No doubt lol!! I guarantee half these folk aren't even looking at their screens, just pressing buttons while watching The Voice in the background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Just because it can happen doesn't mean it is working as intended. Until Bioware says something one way or the other you are not correct either. And frankly since the system is in place to keep pvp'rs from forcing pve'rs into pvp I'm inclined to believe that the op was griefed. BW doesn't have to tell you how it works, you are not special, go in game try it out. If you need BW to tell you that means you really don't even know. So why are you posting when you don't know? AOE doesn't flag you. Auto TARGET doesn't flag you. Attacking another player flags you and that is what OP did. Also, OP admitted to making a mistake, maybe read more before you post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts