Cordarn Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Hey, id like to address the flagging system and how its so easy for other players to get you flagged and grief you. Yesterday I was in the rakghoul tunnels killing a rakghoul elite and burned it down to where one more skilled should kill it. Well, immediately a shadow in full pvp gear un stealths and kills it right as I use one of my skills to kill the ghoul so it tab targeted the shadow automatically and attacked him. The shadow instantly attacked me and with in a couple hits I was almost dead so I battle stealthed but to no avail; he did force wave and I died. He then stealthed and slinked away to some other person to grief I guess. Now, from describing what I said above you can get how easy it is for people to flag you and kill you; however, if the devs could implement a system like wildstar, and make it so you can only attack a flagged person if you manually turn the flag button on yourself. To elaborate, you can try attacking them, they can try attacking you, but it would be to no avail unless the other person turned on his flag. READ THIS: this has already been debated the heck out of so if you think im at fault or think its the person who attacked who is at fault it theres no need to say anything. Edited November 5, 2014 by Cordarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 LOL! Uh...yeah...that's how it happens. Don't be lazy...know your target. This works perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 LOL! Uh...yeah...that's how it happens. Don't be lazy...know your target. This works perfectly. It's unfortunate for those people doing missions on planets like Tatooine too. A 55 stealths into an AoE, flags the lowbie and ganks 'em. You're right, for people that don't have a concept for PvP other than 1, 2 3 go WZs, that's exactly how PvP works. That's also why you'll never see me in a WZ. If I feel the need to PvP, I log into one of my Asmodian characters in Aion. With the 10-1 ratios of Elyos to Asmos there, PvP is easy to find for an Asmodian. Of course, they cry there too, if you win. Aion, the only game where 2 players can zerg 10, if the 10 don't face roll them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordarn Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 LOL! Uh...yeah...that's how it happens. Don't be lazy...know your target. This works perfectly. Seriously, It was not my fault it tab targeted him immediately and then I died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rankyn Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) I'd like to see some sort of confirmation box pop up when a non-flagged player tries to attack (or do some other action that will result in flagging) another player. - Healing this player will flag you for PvP. Ok/Cancel - Attacking this player will flag you for PvP. Ok/Cancel And throwing out an AoE should never flag you. One little confirmation box and all the griefing stops without impeding those who are already flagged. Even walking into a PvP zone gives you a 10 second warning to get out before forcing it on you. Edited November 3, 2014 by Rankyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Seriously, It was not my fault it tab targeted him immediately and then I died. No, not at all, you have it set up that way...but attacking him was your fault. Turn off auto target if your prone to just button mashing. You can see your target, pay attention to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 It's unfortunate for those people doing missions on planets like Tatooine too. A 55 stealths into an AoE, flags the lowbie and ganks 'em. You're right, for people that don't have a concept for PvP other than 1, 2 3 go WZs, that's exactly how PvP works. That's also why you'll never see me in a WZ. If I feel the need to PvP, I log into one of my Asmodian characters in Aion. With the 10-1 ratios of Elyos to Asmos there, PvP is easy to find for an Asmodian. Of course, they cry there too, if you win. Aion, the only game where 2 players can zerg 10, if the 10 don't face roll them. You CANNOT be flagged by aoe'ing a flagged opponent. You have to directly target them with a single target ability. Stop spreading misinformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokuyobi Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 It really comes down to knowing your target. If you're attacking just one thing, I don't see why you're even hitting the tab key, there is no reason to switch off of that target. When it comes down to it, attacking him was your fault, and in all honesty he was probably just trying to give you a hand in killing the enemy (I do this all the time with players from the other factions). Granted, he maybe shouldn't have killed you, but welcome to MMO's kid. Get used to being ganked, it happens, and it really isn't hard to remove a PvP flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) Stealthed greifer got one of my Sorcs tagged in the Rakgoul heroic area. According to a group mate, the greifer dragged his/her companion into a Death Field targeted on the boss we were killing. I ran, like only a Sorc/Sage healer can run. Right over to a group of friendly tagged players. They burned him hard. Winning! Edited November 3, 2014 by BuriDogshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeJarC Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Stop spreading misinformation. read the OP's post, then follow your own advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Seriously, It was not my fault it tab targeted him immediately and then I died. How DARE you hold ME accountable for MY actions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 read the OP's post, then follow your own advice. Wasn't quoting the OP. Read the post I quoted, them try again. I agree that what happened to the OP was unfortunate, but not at all what I was addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 read the OP's post, then follow your own advice. Irony: You missed the fact that the OP and the quoted text are talking about two different things. The quoted version (flagging via AoE) was changed a while ago, and except for a few buggy situations I've heard described, it doesn't exist anymore. The OP's version does... and the problem is that to the game, its virtually indistinguishable from a completely intentional ambush attack. That said: I still support the idea of explicit flagging. If I'm flagged for PvP and someone on the opposing faction isn't, then I want to see them flip to red before they can attack me. Seems only fair. Also, it seems to eliminate a lot of abuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Irony: You missed the fact that the OP and the quoted text are talking about two different things. The quoted version (flagging via AoE) was changed a while ago, and except for a few buggy situations I've heard described, it doesn't exist anymore. The OP's version does... and the problem is that to the game, its virtually indistinguishable from a completely intentional ambush attack. That said: I still support the idea of explicit flagging. If I'm flagged for PvP and someone on the opposing faction isn't, then I want to see them flip to red before they can attack me. Seems only fair. Also, it seems to eliminate a lot of abuses. I agree the OPs situation was a user error. I also know there are still 'exploits' to force flag, though they are much less prevalent now than in the past. And I agree the best solution is one that requires the user to manually toggle their PVP flag to 'on' before engaging in any PVP action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I agree the OPs situation was a user error. I also know there are still 'exploits' to force flag, though they are much less prevalent now than in the past. And I agree the best solution is one that requires the user to manually toggle their PVP flag to 'on' before engaging in any PVP action. Exploits?! No....you can't make a claim like that when you have no proof of any type of "exploit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danw Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The only way on a PvE server anyone should be flagged is if they MANUALLY CLICK PVP ON, there should be no other way (in open world) to flag for PvP, this fixes the flag pvp grief issues...problem solved. Anything else will always leave room for error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 The only way on a PvE server anyone should be flagged is if they MANUALLY CLICK PVP ON, there should be no other way (in open world) to flag for PvP, this fixes the flag pvp grief issues...problem solved. Anything else will always leave room for error. There is no griefing issue, just lazy and sloppy play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) The only way on a PvE server anyone should be flagged is if they MANUALLY CLICK PVP ON, there should be no other way (in open world) to flag for PvP, this fixes the flag pvp grief issues...problem solved. Anything else will always leave room for error. Nah. I got to 4v1 a groups of imps in the raghoul heroic area because one of them was flagged. If the others had had time to think about whether to flag or not, I'd have missed the opportunity to embarrass 4 imps with a sage. The other 3 would never have flagged if they'd seen how fast their jugg buddy went down. Let's face it, dancing on 4 corpses is way more fun than dancing on one corpse while his buddies watch. And let's not pretend there was any griefing involved. I attacked a single, already-flagged player, then his 3 friends voluntarily attacked me. Exactly how PvP should work. Edited November 3, 2014 by Jimvinny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Exploits?! No....you can't make a claim like that when you have no proof of any type of "exploit". I've never tried it to confirm, but I was told that you could still force-flag Sorcs/Sages by attacking NPCs who were within the AoE of Revivification and Salvation. (ie: You attack an NPC inside an AoE,Heal-over-Time zone, then the next tick of the heal flags the caster). Maybe that has been fixed now, as I said, I'm not sure. And if you think that is really obscure and situation-specific: You're right. I think that's the level they're at now for force-flagging "exploits". It's mostly clear, but it could be made so much simpler just by requiring explicit flagging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altaboy Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 There is no griefing issue, just lazy and sloppy play. It's been a while since I've had my PvP flag turned on via auto-target. I learned after the fist time. But I still occasionally get flagged by being healed by a flagged pep. I don't complain though. I go about my business as usual. If my PvP flag is causing me problems, I simply port to a safe area for 5 minutes, then go back. That being said - It would be nice if the PvP flag had to be manually turned on on a PvE server. It is after all a PvE server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Unfortunate experience but I agree it was player error. That's not to say that there couldn't or shouldn't be changes to the present flagging system. Such as require both parties to be flagged. That would eliminate as much user error as I can see, and make it more "fair" so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malastare Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 And let's not pretend there was any griefing involved. I attacked a single, already-flagged player, then his 3 friends voluntarily attacked me. Exactly how PvP should work. I disagree. The conclusion is clear based on your demeanor. You intentionally sought to trick them into attacking you, despite no evidence that they actually wanted to engage in PvP. Then you gloated about it, and posted here to stroke your ego. That's precisely the sort of behavior I want the PvP flag mechanism to suppress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 I disagree. The conclusion is clear based on your demeanor. You intentionally sought to trick them into attacking you, despite no evidence that they actually wanted to engage in PvP. Then you gloated about it, and posted here to stroke your ego. That's precisely the sort of behavior I want the PvP flag mechanism to suppress. I didn't "trick" anyone. I attacked a flagged player. If he didn't want to engage in PvP, he should have gone back to the safe zone to clear his flag. The fact that the other three attacked me came as a complete, and might I say, unwelcome surprise. I don't intentionally seek out 4v1 fights. They chose to flag, as did i when i attacked a flagged player. Ending the fight alive came as a surprise as well, but you're correct. I did post about it to stroke my ego. Winning a 4v1 on a sage is one of the coolest in game experiences I've ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordarn Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 (edited) It really comes down to knowing your target. If you're attacking just one thing, I don't see why you're even hitting the tab key, there is no reason to switch off of that target. When it comes down to it, attacking him was your fault, and in all honesty he was probably just trying to give you a hand in killing the enemy (I do this all the time with players from the other factions). Granted, he maybe shouldn't have killed you, but welcome to MMO's kid. Get used to being ganked, it happens, and it really isn't hard to remove a PvP flag. Ok tab targeting was a bad word, I didn't click tab. It was an auto targeting by the skill I used. And I don't see why he would pop out of stealth to help me kill the rakghoul when it was at like 100 health. I think its pretty clear that he had a devious purpose in mind. Also he went and slaughtered a level 31 who I was helping (granted the level 31 was flagged stupidly) but the fact that he killed the level 31 was proof that he just wanted to grief people. Edited November 3, 2014 by Cordarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 Ok tab targeting was a bad word, I didn't click tab. It was an auto targeting by the skill I used. And I don't see why he would pop out of stealth to help me kill the rakghoul when it was at like 100 health. I think its pretty clear that he had a devious purpose in mind. Also he went and slaughtered a level 31 who I was helping (granted the level 31 was flagged stupidly) but the fact that he killed the level 31 was proof that he just wanted to grief people. So what?! So what if this is how this guy rolls all day and night? YOU are the guilty one for being sloppy and attacking him. Why would you have created a thread on the forums just to announce what you did?! I don't get it... Looking for a solution? Be careful. Pay attention. KNOW your target... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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