LordArtemis Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) There is an article over on Massively that talks about "sidekicking", where you are reduced in levels to match someone you wish to quest with, or boosted in level to join in on group content (similar to boosting for KDY). Source It is an interesting concept. I really enjoyed the system in CoH, and would love to see something like that added here. Sarflux's idea for a system similar to a sidekick mode for endgame. Edited November 14, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithy Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Downleveling would work def imo, up leveling for content I'm not sure. Could it be done? yes. Would bioware do it because alot of stuff is story gated? Not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I think a "mentor" system, where you can temporarily down-level to help a lower level friend/group-mate run quests and other content would be a fantastic addition. I'm less interested in a "sidekick" system that allows you to temporarily up-level, but if it were easy enough to implement -perhaps with both features together- I think that could be a decent addition as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) All for the down level especially if it could be self applied so even solo content would challenging. Up leveling, would bring quite a handful of issues, like rolling for gear levels before you can use it against people who could use it right now. Edited November 2, 2014 by Deewe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazardousMatt Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 As a former CoH player, I can tell you that having a sidekick/mentor system is a godsend. I have a couple friends I play with. I usually have more time to play than they do, which means I have to be careful about what characters I play and when so I don't outlevel them. A sidekick/mentor system renders that a non-issue. It completely removes the level barrier from playing with your friends and guildmates. Everyone gets to play the character they *really* want to play, not the one that "is the right level." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GadgetDon Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Having come from City of Heroes, I really miss sidekicking. Gear isn't that big of a deal for those cases. Just the ability to show some content. And some missions can still be level gated, like flashpoints and ops and such. There's one thing where the lack of sidekicking is really painful - Bounty Hunter event. Say I'm a level 34 Commando and want to go after a kingpin. It's a pain and a half getting help for it. If a potential teammate is, say, 25 or below, they're pretty much useless in the fight. If you get someone above your level, the kingpin scales to the teammate's level and soon you're useless in the fight. Bolster the lower level character(s) to the highest level, and everyone in the team can be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSRB Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) As yet another long time CoH player, I'd love to see that. I think that the upward leveling would cause some serious problems due to how progression and story are so linked in the leveling process, but being able to at least "de-level" and join up with friends on lowbie toons shouldn't be a problem. However, I think that there would also need to be a system in place that encourages teaming up. The social system was supposed to do this, but it's more of a pain in the butt than an incentive. One decent thing that Wildstar had going for it was a currency called renown that was earned exclusively from teaming up with other players: a currency like that combined with a shop of some exclusive cosmetic items and consumables would be much better than the current social level system we presently have. Edited November 2, 2014 by WSRB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 Well, if they did create a sidekick system for this game, perhaps they could simply increase social points and put more interesting items on the social vendors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 I think a "mentor" system, where you can temporarily down-level to help a lower level friend/group-mate run quests and other content would be a fantastic addition. I'm less interested in a "sidekick" system that allows you to temporarily up-level, but if it were easy enough to implement -perhaps with both features together- I think that could be a decent addition as well. Yea, I think that KDY fills the void when it comes to uplevel content. What is needed is the downlevel mechanic IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heezdedjim Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Bolstering works well for instanced content, and they already know how to do it with the flashpoints and ops. It's not clear where else it could be used to good effect. Level squashing works better for open world content, and it would be a really nice and welcome change actually. It not only allows you to play with low level friends, but it also neatly solves all the complaints of leveling "too fast," since you can just hang around in a given zone as long as you like and keep getting normal XP, without having everything to grey to you before you're ready to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 Bolstering works well for instanced content, and they already know how to do it with the flashpoints and ops. It's not clear where else it could be used to good effect. Level squashing works better for open world content, and it would be a really nice and welcome change actually. It not only allows you to play with low level friends, but it also neatly solves all the complaints of leveling "too fast," since you can just hang around in a given zone as long as you like and keep getting normal XP, without having everything to grey to you before you're ready to leave. It is mainly pointed toward instanced content, to still make it relative at higher levels. But yes, a general downlevel in the open world could work in a group as well IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharofxev Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 But yes, a general downlevel in the open world could work in a group as well IMO. GW2 had this. Open world downlevel. What you're level 80? Not anymore bubba. And God help you if your gear is at all behind the power curve. Hated it. It sounds good in "theory", but instead of bypassing MOBs, you now are fighting every, single one. Why? Because your'e the same "level". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Take a look at my signature. I have outlined such an idea there Yes, it would work. Perfect game for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussircaex Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 GW2 had this. Open world downlevel. What you're level 80? Not anymore bubba. And God help you if your gear is at all behind the power curve. Hated it. It sounds good in "theory", but instead of bypassing MOBs, you now are fighting every, single one. Why? Because your'e the same "level". I'm not sure you're talking about the same thing. What this thread is proposing is for a player to choose to lower their level to that of a teammate while partying with them. If you ran into the problem you are describing, you could just click off the buff and go back to your regular level. This would be a wonderful way to open up queues for lower level FPs, too - you could queue for a leveling instance and get automatically lowered to the required level. Maybe put a weekly in for basic comms or something. People leveling up get more queues, everyone's happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Take a look at my signature. I have outlined such an idea there Yes, it would work. Perfect game for it. I added a link to your post in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heezdedjim Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I'm not sure you're talking about the same thing. What this thread is proposing is for a player to choose to lower their level to that of a teammate while partying with them. If you ran into the problem you are describing, you could just click off the buff and go back to your regular level. Actually it works out really well in GW2. The complaint that you can't just skate through low level zones full of greys is just dumb, and I never heard anyone actually gripe about that in GW2. The way it worked in that game, low level zones still were easier for high level characters despite the stat squash, because you had a full ability bar and all your high level traits, which meant you still were a bit OP against mobs balanced for lower level players. But the automatic downlevel meant you could play in any zone you want at any time, without being "overleveled" or getting zero XP. It makes the entire game world feel relevant even at max level, which is sadly lacking in most games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deewe Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Actually it works out really well in GW2. The complaint that you can't just skate through low level zones full of greys is just dumb, and I never heard anyone actually gripe about that in GW2. The way it worked in that game, low level zones still were easier for high level characters despite the stat squash, because you had a full ability bar and all your high level traits, which meant you still were a bit OP against mobs balanced for lower level players. But the automatic downlevel meant you could play in any zone you want at any time, without being "overleveled" or getting zero XP. It makes the entire game world feel relevant even at max level, which is sadly lacking in most games. As long as donwlevel isn't automatic but a player choice it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heezdedjim Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) As long as donwlevel isn't automatic but a player choice it's fine. It only works if it IS automatic, at least for open-world content. And it works very well. Edited November 14, 2014 by Heezdedjim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) A mentoring system is not the same thing as GW2's level-locked areas. The GW2 system is an entirely separate discussion. I would absolutely love a mentoring system. Like many people, I play MMOs to play with my friends, and none more so than TOR. I mean, c'mon, folks, TOR is still the ONLY MMO in the world to support group-based NPC conversations. As I've said many many times, in most MMOs, you get together with friends to kill NPCs. In TOR, you get together with friends to talk to 'em too. In this way, TOR is more MMO than any other MMO in the world. Everyone loves those social points. A mentoring system would allow me to play any of my chars with my low level friends that I'm trying to introduce to the game. A mentoring system removes the stupidity of saying "Hey, I found this great game and I'd love it if you played with me, except that you won't actually be able to play with me until you get to 50." A mentoring system encourages people to play together. TOR does so much in the way of pro-grouping - Many of which other MMOs don't do. I'm not talking about heroics and flashpoints and the like. That's standard MMO fare and (except for Esseles and Black Talon) Flashpoints are boring anyway. Not enough talking, too much combat. TOR allows you to see your friends' mission objectives on the map. TOR allows you to passively view your friends' class conversations (Unless they're open world, and BioWare really should fix that). TOR allows you to participate in group-based conversation choices. These are all things that promote group play by either making it easier (viewing group members' mission objectives) or rewarding party participation (social points for group conversations). A mentoring system would just be another feather in the cap, another way to promote group play in this MMO. And I'm all for promoting and rewarding ( but not forcing) group play. p.s. Mentoring down really should be a standard feature in every single MMO. Sidekicking up.. I'm not so sure that's as important. Part of me still believes that you should earn your way to seeing higher level content by being, you know, higher level. It wouldn't kill me if it was in, but I probably wouldn't use it. Edited November 14, 2014 by Raphael_diSanto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenHornet Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Sidekicking/exemplaring was awesome in City of Heroes, it was fantastic to be able to play with your friends regardless of level. For a game more similar to SWTOR that does this, RIFT has just introduced sidekicking, having had mentoring down in the game for quite some time. It works pretty well there too. I think it would be a great addition to SWTORs QoL. I've spent many an evening on Vent, staring at the guild roster, trying to find characters my friends and I could play for the evening because having too wide a level spread has dire XP penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) It only works if it IS automatic, at least for open-world content. And it works very well. Ugh, no thank you - level-locked areas are one way I don't want to see down-leveling implemented. If it's tied to who you're grouped with, then the people who want to just power through a zone will still have the option, and the people who want to take their time and be more engaged with the content when helping a friend will have that option. Since neither choice takes away from the experience of the other, it should be an option - not automatic. Edited November 15, 2014 by CommunityDroidEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumperPenn Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I'm all in favor of both a system that allows and facilitates a mentorship program with specific missions for the mentor and their apprentice as well as for a simple down-leveling system to allow high level chars to join lower ones in regular missioning w/o the penalties of an over leveled char. I'd say reduce the mentor to the same level as the apprentice and adjust their health/defense/dps/healing etc to roughly the same level char with all purple level items. Allow them to keep their abilities but again adjust them to the apprentice's level in terms of dps/healing etc. A true cooperative experience with the master and apprentice IE missions tailored to that relationship would add more to the game than just a 'debuff'' to match the apprentice's level but even the debuff would be welcome to let guildies do more things together with lower level members/characters etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Old concept many of us openly suggested in closed beta (and before) EQ2 did this very well and to great success as "mentoring" (first MMORPG title I ever saw do this) but the original dev team for SW:TOR outright rejected it I always thought this system of mentoring would work amazingly in SW:TOR as it acts much like a master/apprentice (padawan) system. Though honestly its kinda late in the game now as the biggest benefit to be gained (original crowd) has outleveled this concept mostly. Still to lesser extent many folks (myself included) would utilized a mentoring system if put in. I wouldnt expect this to be added now at this late date however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Not sure if "sidekick" would be a name I would go for. =P Anyway, maybe the "mentor" part could be indicated like a buff. For BH, it could be called "Mentor". Agent, " Handler". Sith, "Overseer" Trooper, "CO" or "Commanding Officer" Smuggler, "Boss" Jedi, "Trainer" Just thoughts. I like the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 Old concept many of us openly suggested in closed beta (and before) EQ2 did this very well and to great success as "mentoring" (first MMORPG title I ever saw do this) but the original dev team for SW:TOR outright rejected it I always thought this system of mentoring would work amazingly in SW:TOR as it acts much like a master/apprentice (padawan) system. Though honestly its kinda late in the game now as the biggest benefit to be gained (original crowd) has outleveled this concept mostly. Still to lesser extent many folks (myself included) would utilized a mentoring system if put in. I wouldnt expect this to be added now at this late date however Well, I try not to look at changes as "late in the game"...there is always room for improvement and innovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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