Excise Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Now Kreia in SWTOR......... ***shudder*** let's just say I'm glad they left her identity ambiguous enough that I can just pretend it wasn't her. Yeah there's no way that's Kreia despite the hints. The personality was a complete 180 from her earlier portrayal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Agreed on both points. -Exile in the Revan novel: poorly handled -Exile in SWTOR itself: treated fine Now Kreia in SWTOR......... ***shudder*** let's just say I'm glad they left her identity ambiguous enough that I can just pretend it wasn't her. If that really was her fate, just how TheExile was depicted in the book, it's something best left untold imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) We're finally going to rid the universe of Revan; and there will be much rejoicing. Now, if only in doing so would remove all the "skirt the copyright" names and legacy names, we'd have a total win. I wouldn't make assumptions about where the story is going to go quite yet. Bioware enjoys a good plot twist or three. I never thought that was Kreia. I'll pay more attention when I get to it in my current replay, but it seems unlikely. Edited October 29, 2014 by errant_knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomla Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I didn't even realise that was Kreia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec_Fortescue Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) Sure KotOR 2 wasn't made by Bioware but you seriously cannot deny that it was a revolutionary game which changed the expectations of the story quality and narration in video games forever. Bioware's KotOR is nowhere close in terms of writing. The only bad thing about KotOR 2 we can really say is the coding and not finishing it. And the KotOR twist... I don't understand the reaction. It was really predictable and a cliche. Dark Lord Revan suddenly disappearing and the protagonist suddenly appearing from out of nowhere, amnesiac with great Force potential despite not being able to remember a thing and then, also, having visions of Revan himself. Tell me it wasn't predictable that he is Revan... Edited October 29, 2014 by Alec_Fortescue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaharbagh Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Let's keep pressing the devs to do something at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) I wouldn't make assumptions about where the story is going to go quite yet. Bioware enjoys a good plot twist or three. I never thought that was Kreia. I'll pay more attention when I get to it in my current replay, but it seems unlikely. You wouldn't really get that impression from that cutscene itself, but the codex involving that "Sith entity" is fairly telling. Name a female Sith Lord who devastated the Jedi Order a few hundred years ago and could see visions of the future. Poorly implemented but it appears to be her. Edited October 29, 2014 by Nickious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 You wouldn't really get that impression from that cutscene itself, but the codex involving that "Sith entity" is fairly telling. Name a female Sith Lord who devastated the Jedi Order a few hundred years ago and could see visions of the future. Poorly implemented but it appears to be her. I remember this one poster claiming that even though he didn't pen the SW story, Drew Karpyshyn stated that the Entity was indeed supposed to be Kreia. Truth be told, I don't have an issue with her appearing or the different VA but rather what she says. The implications are rather... far-reaching to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 one thing I wanna stress is not to belvie ANYTHING Kreia in KOTOR 2 says. the woman had an agenda for the exile. belieivng she would never lie to her was, to put it lightly, is INCREDIABLY Naive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 How about a subscriber gift for the anniversary?... A G0-T0 or Basilisk War Droid pet. G0-T0 or even Bao Dur's Remote going up as a pet on the CM for 1 CC (or 15 CC - whatever it was they did with the "Revan's Heir" title) would be amazing. At the very least they should do an "Heir of the Exile" title or something like that. For all the impressions people get that BW looks down on KotOR II (and some of those impressions are pretty reasonable), SWTOR has certainly been willing to play up the connection at times. After all, in the very first Cartel Pack, pretty much the poster-item for launching the CM as a whole, the Mask of Nihilus was the standout "cool" item - even before Revan's armor and mask were released - and it was certainly front-and-center on all their promotions for its launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 (edited) one thing I wanna stress is not to belvie ANYTHING Kreia in KOTOR 2 says. the woman had an agenda for the exile. belieivng she would never lie to her was, to put it lightly, is INCREDIABLY Naive I wouldn't say she was always lying. Really most of the time she told half truths, or gave a cryptic answers. There is some manipulation over the course of the story of course, but towards the end, it was pretty clear how much she cared about theExile because theExile had something that was truly different than anything she had encountered before. Edited October 29, 2014 by Nickious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggseggseggs Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Fireworks seem to be the choice of Bio Ware for any anniversary, they know we love them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrr_hypernova Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Sure KotOR 2 wasn't made by Bioware but you seriously cannot deny that it was a revolutionary game which changed the expectations of the story quality and narration in video games forever. Bioware's KotOR is nowhere close in terms of writing. The only bad thing about KotOR 2 we can really say is the coding and not finishing it. And the KotOR twist... I don't understand the reaction. It was really predictable and a cliche. Dark Lord Revan suddenly disappearing and the protagonist suddenly appearing from out of nowhere, amnesiac with great Force potential despite not being able to remember a thing and then, also, having visions of Revan himself. Tell me it wasn't predictable that he is Revan... Bioware has a thing for using dream sequences as foreshadowing just look at boulders gate1 and 2 dragon age mass effect with the beacon and the water dragon stuff in jade empire I'd be more surprise if there was no dream of plot teasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anysao Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I remember this one poster claiming that even though he didn't pen the SW story, Drew Karpyshyn stated that the Entity was indeed supposed to be Kreia. Truth be told, I don't have an issue with her appearing or the different VA but rather what she says. The implications are rather... far-reaching to say the least. Wicked... I thought you were a true Star Wars lorehound... You-you prefer KOTOR II? I'm so sorry I need to do this... *smothers with pillow until the kicking stops* It's.. It's for the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billupsat Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Wicked... I thought you were a true Star Wars lorehound... You-you prefer KOTOR II? I'm so sorry I need to do this... *smothers with pillow until the kicking stops* It's.. It's for the greater good. Quite a few people prefer Kotor II, not to hate on Kotor, but K2's storytelling was of a much higher caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Wicked... I thought you were a true Star Wars lorehound... You-you prefer KOTOR II? I'm so sorry I need to do this... *smothers with pillow until the kicking stops* It's.. It's for the greater good. I find your lack of taste disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) one thing I wanna stress is not to belvie ANYTHING Kreia in KOTOR 2 says. the woman had an agenda for the exile. belieivng she would never lie to her was, to put it lightly, is INCREDIABLY Naive Her lies don't matter, what her character was about and what she stood for was clear and the Entity is nothing like that. Kreia would hate Vitiate with passion and despise everything he repesents, not 'love him' lol. Kreia loved the Exile because he "defied the God" and could live without it. Raher classic motif but implement extremly well in SW universe context. Exile was everything she wanted to Galaxy to understand. Vitiate is everything that is wrong with the galaxy from her POV. It's not a coincidence she's considered argubly the deepest, best written SW character ever Edited October 30, 2014 by Pietrastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billupsat Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Her lies don't matter, what her character was about and what she stood for was clear and the Entity is nothing like that. Kreia would hate Vitiate with passion and despise everything he repesents, not 'love him' lol. Kreia loved the Exile because he "defied the God" and could live without it. Raher classic motif but implement extremly well in SW universe context. Exile was everything she wanted to Galaxy to understand. Vitiate is everything that is wrong with the galaxy from her POV. It's not a coincidence she's considered argubly the deepest, best written SW character ever Indeed. Vitiate is dependent upon the force, like Sion and Nihilus was to stay alive. Whereas Kreia loathed the force so much she wanted to use the exile as an instrument to destroy it. Vitiate is the exact opposite of everything Kreia was about in K2. As to the best written character in the Star Wars universe? I am in complete agreement. She is one of the many reasons K2 has always (even the release un-modded version back in 04) blaster Kotor out of the water for me. What Bioware did to her in this game is a complete and utter butchery of her character and in essence K2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Wicked... I thought you were a true Star Wars lorehound... You-you prefer KOTOR II? I'm so sorry I need to do this... *smothers with pillow until the kicking stops* It's.. It's for the greater good. Kotor 2 was leagues better than Kotor. Darker story, more interesting, and created the single most interesting character in the Star Wars Mythos. And no that's not opinion, it's fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrr_hypernova Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Kotor 2 was leagues better than Kotor. Darker story, more interesting, and created the single most interesting character in the Star Wars Mythos. And no that's not opinion, it's fact. No kotor 2 moded so it was done is slightly better. Kotor2 as shipped by Lucas's arts was an unfinshid unpolished pre release alpha sold on the rep of its predecessor. Kotor was better than kotor 2 was in its release state which was a dragon age 2 level rush job. Edited October 30, 2014 by Jrr_hypernova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Kotor 2 was leagues better than Kotor. Darker story, more interesting, and created the single most interesting character in the Star Wars Mythos. And no that's not opinion, it's fact. Not to mention the dialogue was less... childish. Not saying KOTOR 1 is made for children, simply that it isn't as well written as the dialogue in KOTOR 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billupsat Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 http://static.fjcdn.com/large/pictures/46/99/469983_4678007.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDisturbed Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 KOTOR II is leagues better than KOTOR 1. 1 is a a trope and cliche ridden story with the most Saturday morning cartoon villain imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pietrastor Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) No kotor 2 moded so it was done is slightly better. Kotor2 as shipped by Lucas's arts was an unfinshid unpolished pre release alpha sold on the rep of its predecessor. Kotor was better than kotor 2 was in its release state which was a dragon age 2 level rush job. Obvious cuts start showing up at the end of the game and it is overall way more buggy than KOTOR 1, but it is in no way DA2 level, even if just for the fact that very little was changed in the engine/mechanics of the game. In that respect, Obsidian made a better (safer?) choice to essentialy copy+paste KOTOR 1's gameplay with new story/textures/models instead of trying to make significant gameplay/feature and engine changes WITHIN incredibly short dev time (both KOTOR2 and DA2 had like little over a year to ship). Not to mention that DA2 didn't bring one of the best writing in video game history. TSLCRM makes KOTOR 2 much better, but even in it's unfinished stage, it is a superior work of art. Both games ARE nearly identical gameplay, feature and structure wise (while DAO and DA2 are not) so the differences comes down in polish and story/writing. K1 wins in former, but the latter is ultimately more important for an RPG and bugs/cut content may be fixed, if not by patches then by modders, the writing will stay the same. So yeah, Kotor 2 was better. Though it has to be pointed that KOTOR 2's ending drama was kind of a proto-Mass Effect 3 ending *****torm, it was the 'original' one to make headlines because of confusing (even if for different developement reasons) ending. KOTOR II is leagues better than KOTOR 1. 1 is a a trope and cliche ridden story with the most Saturday morning cartoon villain imaginable. But the twist was damn effective and made the game, pretty undisputable point. Good gameplay, polish and quite novel (at that time) 3D-cinematic presentation for RPG only helped. As much as I think KOTOR 2 was better, Obs had strong foundation to build on provided by Bioware Edited October 30, 2014 by Pietrastor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anysao Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Huh, I didn't realize so many folk preferred KOTOR II. Pillow smothering withdrawn! While personally, I will never surrender my dedication to KOTOR, I can definitely see why many people prefer the sequel. But generally, I consider KOTOR II in a way much like I do Star Wars Galaxies: It made a better memory than a game. Because in retrospect, KOTOR II presented a character that was far more "deep," provided more provocative dialogue, presented a darker story, anyone who delved deep enough found the companions much more fascinating, an interesting explanation to where the Companions came from, and referenced in a perfectly mysterious way what happened to Revan. But along the way everything was a mess. We'd be stuck on planets for hours without being near the Ebon Hawk, our character had a back story we almost had to "figure out," at least half our companions we questioned the necessity of (where did Bao-Dor come from again? What's that? He's our former science officer we met after crashing on Telos?), there were long cutscenes that disrupted gameplay, the story had no real ending, characters seemingly talked forever, a good quarter of the game we didn't get to play as the Exile, the Darths had a relatively poor origin story, the game as a while felt like one big guilt trip about the Mandalorian War, the dark/light and male/female Revan continuation was handled mediocrely, and then the ending was incomplete! I will always find Revan's story greater than Meetra Surik's. But when the Terms of Service asked me to agree to disagree, I hit accept... So to each their own. *hides pillow* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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