Noob Q re: Anti-Stealth in Voidstar (and other zones)

[DomiSotto]

After losing 2 Voidstars in a row in the same fashion, it occurred to me that there gotta be a known way of dealing with stealth. So, I am asking the folks here who fought for 3 years in those same zones, as to how you successfully counter the computer node cap in the Star.

 

1. So, I know there is Stealth, as s/he guarded the door or came to sap the defender. My guess is that I should go for the 'unguarded' door, get him/her to de-stealth to defend and mark him/her. Logically, not seeing the marker means s/he is ninja'ing. Then I should alert the team that there is the stealth at the re-group, and that the stealth is marked... and then what?

 

What are the ways to detect him/her and where should the Stealth probe or a slinger be placed/sit (assuming we can create conditions to make it work) ? DoT him/her continuously if we manage to make him/her de-stealthr? What are the best DoTs against stealth? I assume keeping alive and knowing where the stealth is better than killing and having to go through the whole protocol all over again?

 

Or, if there is any other winning strategy, please tell me, that's the best I can come up with.

 

2. In any other zone, will marking out the stealth and watching out for his or her absence be a good idea to predict the potential ninja caps & and is it one of the goals for the guard who encounters one?

 

3. Are there different strategies, specific to Operatives/Scoundrel vs Sins/Assassins?

Edited October 23, 2014 by DomiSotto

[cs_zoltan]

Only 2 things you need:

 

1. Someone at the off-door who is not a complete idiot (preferably an operative, assassin, sorc or PT)

2. Watch the nearby door

[Ryuku-sama]

After losing 2 Voidstars in a row in the same fashion, it occurred to me that there gotta be a known way of dealing with stealth. So, I am asking the folks here who fought for 3 years in those same zones, as to how you successfully counter the computer node cap in the Star.

 

1. So, I know there is Stealth, as s/he guarded the door or came to sap the defender. My guess is that I should go for the 'unguarded' door, get him/her to de-stealth to defend and mark him/her. Logically, not seeing the marker means s/he is ninja'ing. Then I should alert the team that there is the stealth at the re-group, and that the stealth is marked... and then what?

 

What are the ways to detect him/her and where should the Stealth probe or a slinger be placed/sit (assuming we can create conditions to make it work) ? DoT him/her continuously if we manage to make him/her de-stealthr? What are the best DoTs against stealth? I assume keeping alive and knowing where the stealth is better than killing and having to go through the whole protocol all over again?

 

Or, if there is any other winning strategy, please tell me, that's the best I can come up with.

 

2. In any other zone, will marking out the stealth and watching out for his or her absence be a good idea to predict the potential ninja caps & and is it one of the goals for the guard who encounters one?

 

3. Are there different strategies, specific to Operatives/Scoundrel vs Sins/Assassins?

 

Lot of interresting questions here. First of all.... Stealth real power (except for the Madness sin but those can't get back in stealth easily once they are set up 'cause of DoTs) is in their opener. As a survivability tip.. Mitigate it. Kite them for the first few GCD than **** them to death.

As a more general rule, yes DoT'ing them work but they can purge DoTs and go back to stealth every few minutes. So the trick is more to keep them in combat and focus them down.

The idea about marking is definately good.

Always stay at about 30m of the node so the stealther can't sapcap easily (sin can use Phase Walk, but you will see their beacon) except if you are a Vanguard/PT. Each class has its own way to deal with stealther.

Sin and Oper obviously are stealth themselves.

PT has Shoulder Cannon, so standing OVER the node so nothing can be used to break your LoS is a good idea (be ready to Scan and AoE as soon as a smart sin comes out and overload you away before it sap you).

Jugg has far enough CD to mitigate and can close range and begin hammering fast, but they aren,t really suited to keep a stealth from vanishing.

Sniper has Spotter and Entrench. Spotter isn't good enough for anything but letting you catch a glimpse of the stealth. Once you see it, let it sap you once, once it wear off, just entrench, and be ready to AoE when you think vanish is close.

Commando sucks against stealther but still have a few tools to survive with their AoE and Scan.

Sorc with their two breaker can do good, but their paper armor will kill them.

Mara are simply ****ed up on node guarding.

 

So if you aren't a) a stealther b) a PT c) a jugg tank, you have no business solo guarding. If you are, your job is to call out and survive against the one-two-three stealthers.

[HBCentaurion]

My two cents.

 

Your first priority in node guarding is to CALL OUT and STAYING ALIVE. Too many times have I seen a defender not calling out and trying to solo the attacker and failing miserably at both. If you are new to PVP, don't engage in a 1vs1 - try to CC them and call out for help.

 

When I'm guarding with my sniper I use Entrench whenever it's available and Shield Probe whenever it's available while Entrench is on CD. The idea is to survive their initial burst when they open up on you from stealth. It's fun to watch assassins trying to Spike / CC you from stealth while you are entrenched. Some tips as a sniper node guarding:

- Place your back against a wall.

- OS on the node on CD.

- Flurry of Bolts (or whatever the instant AOE attack is called) in most likely approach areas (behind you).

- Stay far away from the node so they can't CC you and cap in the duration of the CC.

- Do not guard if your CC-breaker is on CD.

- Don't use your CC-breaker unless you have full resolve (or they are to cap if you don't).

Edited October 23, 2014 by HBCentaurion

[Cox_The_Beast]

I tend to guard often on my Sorc DPS, Lightning speeced, and I have to say positioning is also important.

I tend to stay behind one of the two columns, back to the wall, turning camera with left-click and drag.

 

If I see I get the stealth CC debuff I call the inc of at least 1 stealth, but most of the times they just don't notice me and go straight for the door. Shock+Whirlwind buys me time, then they tend to break CC, and then I run and Electrocute them, placing my DoTs and starting my rotation. After that, they tend to die fast, especially if one of my allies comes ot help...

 

All in all, apart from Maras, I think most classes can come up with a strategy to keep stealths at bay.

 

Commandos could go with their countdown grenade when they feel the stealth is about to stealth out - the grenade can't be cleansed, so it'll break stealth moments later. Vanguards have the same thing.

Sages, as I said, can count on positioning, and after 51 they can also count on 2 CC breakers - teh standard one and Force Barrier - which makes it extremely interesting to counter the mix of stealth CCs and stuns the stealth classes have.

Guardians. Personally I tend to struggle, but I'm sure what was written before is true. So keeping stealthers out of stealth is a no, but hammering them down fast is a possibility.

Gunslingers have the mix of stealth detection, AoEs, DoTs and CC and Stun immunity, which is awesome. Possibly the best setup to counter stealths, imo. Just root them when you spot them and call the inc. Place hte DoT, get help and... Done. Stealth is dead.

Stealth classes themselves I noticed tend to counder themselves depending on skill, mostly. And latency. Since they tend to play similarly and need backstabs most of the time, one thing I would say is, that the more you're comfortable with the class itself, the more difficult to defeat you will become. Which incidentally is hte main reason I shelved my Infiltration Shadow...

 

As such, most classes have a way to counter stealths, you just have to come up with one. Keep trying, and you'll figure hte best method for yourself, Domi.

[DomiSotto]

Of course I call incs & always specify 'stealth' now, and no, no, I do not do 1x ANY number if I can help it at all, particularly not with anything that carries a staff. I am a Vanguard, so I started guarding once I got the Stealth Probe. But I am a too low level for the Shoulder Cannon, so I guard off node and run Stealth Scan on CD, send call while CC'd, carbonize and wait for a DPS to come over while watching the thawing process.

 

Thank you for the general tips on keeping Sins engaged, they are very helpful. I am thinking more in terms of team effort though to anticipate stealth and counter it. Because when I started thinking back on those 2 VS, I thought: I knew there was stealth, and I should have known s/he is going to ninja, why did not I do anything about it? (and yeah, it really bugs me)

 

I am too new, so I always end up in that last melee in the VS, and never seen the computer itself and the approach to the final node. So, I think I do not understand the layout and the mechanics of the 3rd part of the Star. I know in at least one zone a Shadow on my team went for the computer and got it, but I never saw how. Is that another door/upload so they have to de-stealth while initiating anything even if they sneak past the big brawl? Or do they just walk in?

 

Sorry, I am kindda really slow right now.

Edited October 23, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Elusive_Thing]

After the last doors you run to the datacore and there you need to channel for, if I recall correctly, 1.5 seconds. Usually if the last doors get blown open, a class with a speedboost will get the datacore. Very hard to defend against a channel that fast.

[DomiSotto]

Okay, thank you!

 

I will try to pay more attention next time & focus on the layout. If I can see it happening, I can try cc, storm or harpoon.

 

Andthank you for all the tips on node guarding again. I'll start looking for favorite guarding nooks in each zone to place the toon till I get the blessed Shoulder Cannon

 

End, uhm, a really stupid question: does stealth see opposing stealth when in stealth (too much to hope for?)?

Edited October 23, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Ryuku-sama]

After the last doors you run to the datacore and there you need to channel for, if I recall correctly, 1.5 seconds. Usually if the last doors get blown open, a class with a speedboost will get the datacore. Very hard to defend against a channel that fast.

 

it is much faster than 1.5sec.. it's under .5sec

[DomiSotto]

Oh, yakes!

[Elusive_Thing]

it is much faster than 1.5sec.. it's under .5sec

I was wondering about that actually. It has been a while since I've accessed the datacore, because usually I just delay the enemies, but I did not want to exaggerate the speed of the channel. Thanks for the correction.

 

DomiSotto: Stealthers see enemy stealthers just like every other player. That is, if they come close enough.

[Adovir]

It would also help if you tell us what class you play

[Domatron]

The easiest way to predict an attack at the off node is to count the attackers at the current one, zoom all the way out and do a quick survey when you can. If you practice doing this often it becomes second nature and you can move to reinforce early by anticipating the attack.

 

You can also place the defender of the off node as your focus target so you know immediately if they are being attacked.

 

A tip for defending is to pre- type the inc call then click on a nameplate to resume normal play. If a stealth opens on you just double tap enter to send the message.

[teclado]

One thing that took me way too long to learn was how to deal with a sap-cap or mezz-cap. If you are standing right next to the objective, it is possible for somebody to sap or mezz you and cap before the sap/mezz expires. However, if you are standing a good distance away from the objective, they would have to get close enough to you to sap/mezz, run over to the objective, and start capping. If it takes them a second or two to run over to the objective, the mezz/sap will wear off before they finish capping and you can interrupt the cap. The important thing is to stay within 30m so that you can hit them with a 30m ability when the sap/mezz expires.

 

One exception is civil war. If they start capping on the other side of the node (using node to block your line of sight), you may have a hard time getting them in LoS before they finish capping. This is where a 30m AOE comes in handy.

 

Also, vanguards / PT make good node guards when their shoulder cannon is available. They can actually stand right next to the node because their shoulder cannon can be used while CC'd to interrupt a cap. They just have to deal with possible LoS issues with the shoulder cannon.

 

I think that almost any class can handle node guarding effectively, unless jumped by e.g. two stealth - one incapacitates you while the other caps.

[sithBracer]

- Place your back against a wall.

If you do this you can't push them back with ambush or your KB. This is a horrible strategy and I love snipers who do this against me. The best position is somewhere open, preferably next to a ledge facing the node for spotter. Do not give them anything they can use to LoS, do not give them anything they can use to stop your KBs and give yourself plenty of room to roll.

 

- OS on the node on CD.

Another bad idea. A stealther will just wait it out. You are better off using it on the node if he restealths or use it around yourself after KBing and/rooting them for some extra defense. It's not much anymore, but it is better than nothing.

 

- Flurry of Bolts (or whatever the instant AOE attack is called) in most likely approach areas (behind you).

Waste of time and energy. It is much better to keep your finger close to the entrench button.

 

- Stay far away from the node so they can't CC you and cap in the duration of the CC.

this

 

- Do not guard if your CC-breaker is on CD.

SO MUCH this

 

- Don't use your CC-breaker unless you have full resolve (or they are to cap if you don't).

entrench gives snipers a little more leeway with this. It would be worth using it and crouch for ballistic dampers with entrench+probe than for example letting him get a 6-7k discharge and possible a 10k maul. But definitely don't use it on a sap unless you are sure you know using it will result in a cap.

 

Comments in red.

 

For the most part very few stealthers will try to sap cap a sniper due to entrench, most will go for the kill. Make sure to not guard solo unless you have entrench available. I actually recently sap capped a sniper right as he came out of entrench (which he used while his friend was there to kill a teammate).

[DomiSotto]

I am playing a Vanguard speced Shield Specialist atm. Level 39 as of this morning but that changes (and far too fast, and I am not 12xXP’ing). But I played/will play a Gunslinger on 55, so all the Sniper tips are appreciated (can I pick them or what?).

 

The guarding off-node rule is in the How to Become a Contender, and the good folks here quickly taught me to do just that in the Slinger. One thing though I have to start doing is using the environment, rocks and stairs to get my vulnerable back protected. Thank you for the wall discussion, this helps!

 

@Domatron: Thank you for this one! I tried to pre-type the call before to just add numbers when the attack comes, but I did not get out of the chat window. After I ended up with half-rotation in the chat window before noticing the stumble instead of attack a couple-three times b/c I forgot to Enter to get out of the blessed chat window & no call sent either, I stopped doing it, preferring to write while (inevitably) cc’d & going for at least the call. Will Target Self work as well as the nameplate click?

 

And, ah, it’s hard to choose whom to focus target! But I fattened up the health bars in my Ops frame to have a better idea who’s hurting, so if I know who’s guarding the node & remember his position in the frame, I guess I can see that there as well.

 

With unzooming the screen, I will have to try again. I tried rolling to 100% and had very hard time with it (judging range issues, zooming back and forth.) I settled on 60%, I think. I'll try to bring the max zoom out again and cope.

Edited October 23, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Natharon]

Ask yourself, are you a vanguard/pt?

 

If so, turn on rockets sit on door and profit.

 

If not, play far enough from the door that you can hit whoever is on it with some sort of attack, or leap, but far enough back that they can't fully cap while you are still in sap.

 

If you are a stealth class, pro tips incoming.

 

Don't *********** go for a solo, stay way the **** back, sap the **** on the door, call incoming, and play from stealth until you get assistance, play the saps as long as you can and stay in the same rough range as a non vanguard/pt. So if you suck and get sapped in stealth you can still make a play before it is too late.

[lord_zarox]

so I guard off node and run Stealth Scan on CD,

 

Dont spam it on cd wait till u know u got a stealther around and can make a good educated guess on where he is makes it harder for them to play stealth games with you

[Domatron]

@Domatron: Thank you for this one! I tried to pre-type the call before to just add numbers when the attack comes, but I did not get out of the chat window. After I ended up with half-rotation in the chat window before noticing the stumble instead of attack a couple-three times b/c I forgot to Enter to get out of the blessed chat window & no call sent either, I stopped doing it, preferring to write while (inevitably) cc’d & going for at least the call. Will Target Self work as well as the nameplate click?

 

Yes, just click your bar in the ops frame and you can move/attack normally. You then hit enter once to bring the chat back up (add a number if you want) then hit enter a second time to send the message.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Domatron

[DomiSotto]

If so, turn on rockets sit on door and profit.

 

I don't have Shoulder Cannon yet. It's about the Shoulder Cannon, is not it? Why is it always the Shoulder Cannon? Plus, I am already dressed in Commando armoring. Now Cannon. Unloved, I tell ya, I feel unloved compared to that other AC....

 

No, I got it. When I get the SC (lucky day!), sit the node, shoot while CC'd = happy stealthier.

 

Let me guess, the Stealth Detecting Probe shows up on the ground as an AoE spell, is not it? In all its neon awesomeness? Swell. Okay, I won't be wasting it any more, save it for that very special operative, same node, next try.

 

Yes, just click your bar in the ops frame and you can move/attack normally. You then hit enter once to bring the chat back up (add a number if you want) then hit enter a second time to send the message.

 

Thank you so much. That's gonna save me future embarrassment!

Edited October 23, 2014 by DomiSotto

[sanchito]

...

I think that almost any class can handle node guarding effectively, unless jumped by e.g. two stealth - one incapacitates you while the other caps.

 

i am having a hard time with mara, and i guess non vengeance juggs have the same issue; i can saber throw once, but the next time i have to leap and am right where i don't want to be, on top of the node where he can mezz / cap. is there a trick to it?

[Ryuku-sama]

i am having a hard time with mara, and i guess non vengeance juggs have the same issue; i can saber throw once, but the next time i have to leap and am right where i don't want to be, on top of the node where he can mezz / cap. is there a trick to it?

 

Eh?? Do not guard as a Mara/Focus-Jugg???

[sanchito]

Eh?? Do not guard as a Mara/Focus-Jugg???

 

yeah that was my conclusion but it's still better than no guard at all :-)

[DomiSotto]

Oh, well, went through like 5 zones and never had to single guard. But feel better around the stealth classes. Even marked out the Sin to keep an eye on the guy. It actually did help.

[Evolixe]

Always stay at about 30m of the node so the stealther can't sapcap easily (sin can use Phase Walk, but you will see their beacon)

 

You can't see the Phase Walk beacon of an enemy player in stealth.