GSF Tier List

[LilSaihah]

This part is false. T1 scout can dish out as much DPS as a T2.. even more if you consider LLC'n'pods with TT.

 

Yeah but a T2 can get LLC'n'pods with TT too. They can get the arguably superior quads'n'pods with TT setup, too. Why take a Blackbolt when, if you want to have two Sting builds, you can take an Ocula instead?

[Ryuku-sama]

Yeah but a T2 can get LLC'n'pods with TT too. They can get the arguably superior quads'n'pods with TT setup, too. Why take a Blackbolt when, if you want to have two Sting builds, you can take an Ocula instead?

 

For StE and the superior mobility You don't lose any offensive power. Lose some defensive power. And gain a huge mobility boost.

[tunewalker]

For StE and the superior mobility You don't lose any offensive power. Lose some defensive power. And gain a huge mobility boost.

 

Like you said you lose defensive, its utility but you lose A Missile break a sizable amount of Evasion for extra mobility, but as we kind of already stated, by using Light'n'pods instead of Quads'n'pods you are kind of losing a little bit of range, and by losing access to Burst and clusters you are losing the ability to fight truly up close. I dont think any of us deny the T1's abilities overall, its just more situational and much more playstyle dependent, and even then a similar style can be gotten from the T2 around on par depending on your preference.

 

 

(also if I were you I would try out the less damaging LC and Pods, you may be surprised at what that extra range can really do for you , less damage but you may find it easier to hit people more often, and with a DO its deadly especially if you are going the StE converter, just beware of Burst and Cluster T2's as they pretty much tear any Pods build apart if they fly proper.)

Edited October 23, 2014 by tunewalker

[LilSaihah]

For StE and the superior mobility You don't lose any offensive power. Lose some defensive power. And gain a huge mobility boost.

 

Well clearly you do lose offensive power otherwise people would be using LLCs rather than QLCs and BLCs on the Sting :x

[Magira]

Well clearly you do lose offensive power otherwise people would be using LLCs rather than QLCs and BLCs on the Sting :x

 

I would say no. LLC do more damage than quads. And you gain mobility, which you can certainly use offensively.

 

Pod builds I find the T1 Scout better overall than in T2, which has its greatest strength in the burst / cluster combination.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Magira

[Drakkolich]

I would say no. LLC do more damage than quads. And you gain mobility, which you can certainly use offensively.

 

Pod builds I find the T1 Scout better overall than in T2, which has its greatest strength in the burst / cluster combination.

 

LLC only does more Damage then Quads at 2062M and under, Quads always have better accuracy then LLC all the way to 500M. Weapon Draw Differences between them are Quads at 22 per second and LLC at 21 per second.

 

Most pods play styles fire at a much higher range then 2062M, as such I would say that Quads is a much better choice Damage wise then LLC. I find that for Pods builds Retros are probably the best engine choice which is not available on the T1 scout.

 

As for sacrificing Distortion shields amazing defenses for for Shield to Engine converter I myself can never see that benefit. Not to mention gaining a reactor instead of sensors is another huge defense boost.

 

I'm going to have respectively disagree that a T1 scout can do a pods build better. Now that's not to say it can't do it well because it can still be a very good ship, it just isn't superior to the same build on the T2 scout in my opinion.

 

Incase you guys want the math on Quads vs LLC I'll put it here at the bottom.

Both have the same Damage upgrades, although Quads gets a range upgrade which helps it further, but I did the math on stock of both weapons anyways.

 

LLC Dps 1014-801-649 at ranges of 500-3000-4000

accuracy of 110%-90%-80%

 

Quads Dps 881-819-663 at ranges of 500-3000-5000

accuracy of 110%-95%-85%

 

As we can clearly see just from those numbers Quads has better damage in the mid and max ranges. LLC has better Damage at 500.

 

So for LLC we take 1014-801 and get 213 dps difference. We divide it by 25 to give us 100m increments which is 8.52 dps per 100.

 

Now we take the Quads close range dps which is 881 and take away LLC mid range damage which is 801 to get the difference, which is 80 dps.

 

LLC gains 8.52 dps per 100, it takes 9.38 increments of this to get to 80. Which equates to 938m, so we take 938 away from 3000m to get when the dps from LLC and Quads are equal, which is 2062m. This means that under 2062m LLC is gaining way more dps then Quads for every meter closer to the target it gets.

 

So if you find yourself shooting way more under the 2062m mark then above LLC is a much better weapon for you then Quads, otherwise Quads deal more damage.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Drakkolich

[RickDagles]

T1 Scout reg lasers + pods is arguably better than T2 Scout quads+pods. The tracking penalty and energy cost is significantly less and the accuracy is better. IMO lasers+pods is better vs. scouts and bombers weaving around SATs (although LLC and BLC are obviously better there) while quads+pods is better vs gunships, strikes, and TDM bombers.

 

T1 Scout with EMP is a great teamwork ship because you can pick on a particularly good T2 Scout enemy and prevent him from using TT and retros for most of the game. It might not affect his missile avoidance but it will certainly affect his DPS.

Edited October 23, 2014 by RickDagles

[Magira]

So if you find yourself shooting way more under the 2062m mark then above LLC is a much better weapon for you then Quads, otherwise Quads deal more damage.

 

Yes, ok. At large distances, quads would be better.

 

I think it depends on what you want with your build. Most love Dogfighting and practice it also with a Pod build. This is not a good idea.

 

I use my T1 Pod Scout only as GS hunter.

 

The S2E Converter gives me infinite boost, the possibility for Barell Roll and Thrusters to select the speed component and Barell Roll itself as an additional boost mobility.

 

The gameplay is that of an assassin, not a sorcerer. Short, painful attacks and next destination. No Zerg (= Dogfighting), therefore Evasion plays no major role.

[zaskar]

T1 Scout reg lasers + pods is arguably better than T2 Scout quads+pods. The tracking penalty and energy cost is significantly less and the accuracy is better.

 

T1 Scout with EMP is a great teamwork ship because you can pick on a particularly good T2 Scout enemy and prevent him from using TT and retros for most of the game. It might not affect his missile avoidance but it will certainly affect his DPS.

 

No.

 

1. Emp effects are not working as they should (by tooltips) and any T2 pilot worth his salt is going to have you dead in the 2000k between the max range and the START of your very long lockon.

[RickDagles]

No.

 

1. Emp effects are not working as they should (by tooltips) and any T2 pilot worth his salt is going to have you dead in the 2000k between the max range and the START of your very long lockon.

 

Who said anything about lockon?

 

EDIT: I see the confusion. I'm talking about the EMP field systems ability not the EMP missile.

Edited October 23, 2014 by RickDagles

[MiaowZedong]

T1 Scout reg lasers + pods is arguably better than T2 Scout quads+pods. The tracking penalty and energy cost is significantly less and the accuracy is better. IMO lasers+pods is better vs. scouts and bombers weaving around SATs (although LLC and BLC are obviously better there) while quads+pods is better vs gunships, strikes, and TDM bombers.

 

More or less this. The QLC do about 7% more damage but the LC have more accuracy. In terms of expected damage perfectly centered at long range on a target with zero evasion the QLC win out barely, though by so little it will basically never have a practical effect. With the same RoF neither has the burst advantage. In theory, expected damage favours one over the other depending on things like target evasion, angle, and whether Wingman and TT are up. This makes it sound like the two are about equivalent, or even like QLC has the edge.

 

However, this is not so, because the number of shots needed to kill someone in GSF is relatively low. A single-digit percentage difference is unlikely to reduce the number of shots needed to kill someone. You would need to make anywhere from 14 to 20+ hits for QLC's higher expected damage to actually affect the ammount of time it takes to kill someone. This is rare; at the lower end of the scale it can happen (shooting a fully intact bomber with no accuracy issues when you don't obtain any crits and after you've run out of pods, for instance) but it is rare. On the other hand, in situations where LC have the advantage, you could have an extra hit due to the higher accuracy. An extra hit will always have a tangible effect on the gamestate.

 

The simplified TL;DR of this post is that when QLC outperform LC, it's in a way that doesn't matter, but when LC outperform QLC it does matter.

 

The T1 scout still loses out for the medium range pods builds, but because of not having Retros and Reactor being generally better than Sensors. I still stand by the claim the T1 scout is good enough to compete with the T2, though. The T2's edge is small.

Edited October 23, 2014 by MiaowZedong

[Verain]

I've never seen a thread on these forums that has made me want to throw crap at my monitor and yell "You must be really bad at this game". Congratulations, you've done it. This game is entirely skill based and those skills may lend to a specific ship more than others. In certain hands, any ship can be top tier if played correctly.

 

Tune is a very good player, and what he says has a lot of merit. Your post here does not, and a direct insult at him is really unwarranted. You yourself put the lie to your claim- you fly very good ships in any game you are threatened in. I've flown against you, and lemme say that I've never seen you come flying at my gunship with some weaker ship, it's all battle scout battle scout battle scout. Would you really have the forums believe that you just happened to have some mythic bond with the battle scout specifically, the one that almost every player (and the devs) are on record is saying is a bit overtuned? That the ships are just about inherent playstyles, and that if someone doesn't do as much damage on their support scout as you do on your battle scout, its because of the skill delta between you and him? That's a pretty messed up story to tell yourself.

 

You fly good ships because they are good. That's fine, so do I, and so does everyone. But pretending that all ships are equal is patently absurd- in fact there are some imbalances, which should not be surprising.

[tunewalker]

More or less this. The QLC do about 7% more damage but the LC have more accuracy. In terms of expected damage perfectly centered at long range on a target with zero evasion the QLC win out barely, though by so little it will basically never have a practical effect. With the same RoF neither has the burst advantage. In theory, expected damage favours one over the other depending on things like target evasion, angle, and whether Wingman and TT are up. This makes it sound like the two are about equivalent, or even like QLC has the edge.

 

However, this is not so, because the number of shots needed to kill someone in GSF is relatively low. A single-digit percentage difference is unlikely to reduce the number of shots needed to kill someone. You would need to make anywhere from 14 to 20+ hits for QLC's higher expected damage to actually affect the ammount of time it takes to kill someone. This is rare; at the lower end of the scale it can happen (shooting a fully intact bomber with no accuracy issues when you don't obtain any crits and after you've run out of pods, for instance) but it is rare. On the other hand, in situations where LC have the advantage, you could have an extra hit due to the higher accuracy. An extra hit will always have a tangible effect on the gamestate.

 

The simplified TL;DR of this post is that when QLC outperform LC, it's in a way that doesn't matter, but when LC outperform QLC it does matter.

 

The T1 scout still loses out for the medium range pods builds, but because of not having Retros and Reactor being generally better than Sensors. I still stand by the claim the T1 scout is good enough to compete with the T2, though. The T2's edge is small.

 

I agree with this fully. The only reason I put it so low on the list is because the Pods build is really its only good damage build and while its near on par with the T2 in such a build it doesnt really add anything "extra" to the table, its a different way of doing a similar job, All of the ships i have above it add something extra to the "Meta". The T1 Bomber has great area Denial, The T2 adds in lesser area denial then the T1, but also adds in healing support similar to the clarion I weighted its ability to fight while on a node AND give heals (even though the T3 Strike is better at the heals portion of it) higher then just giving heals that the clarion brings, and the only reason that was weighted more for me is because more maps of Domination then maps are TDM and even 1 of the TDM (Kuat) is pretty good for the T2 bomber damage wise and not great for the T3 strike since the Missiles can be difficult to land there (not impossible just difficult) The T3 Gunship has a good Mariage of GS and Scout by having Rail gun, burst lasers and Cluster with thrusters and stuff like power dive and retros, but it doesnt do either job as well as the other, but because of this it can out perform the T1 in certain situations, as it can better defend itself against harassers, again it can likely be map dependent. Of course the T3 Strike brings the most reliable reload and heal, and the T3 Scout brings mobility (I feel cruicial in Denon and helpful in every dom map, less important in TDM but still occassionally useful) So bassically the T1 scout is at the top of "it doesnt really add anything to the meta" by virtue of doing a similar job, but not really doing it in a new enough way for me to put it over the others. If you are choosing a T1 scout, its because you have it set up different then your T2 scout, but you still intend it for bassically the same job as the T2. When some one see's either scout they should treat them similarly, except when you see the T1 you are in pretty good situation to bet that its running pods and if its not its probably not that dangerous, while the T2 at least the mind game is there, is it pods? or is it Burst? or is it both? a mental game the T1 doesnt have the luxury to play.

 

And in any game like this, I truly believe you win in the Mind before you win in the game, if you Zig when your opponent thinks your going to Zag you got them, If they call your bluff and get that read, they got you. The T2's ability to make them question whats being run adds to its effectiveness.

 

 

Edit: that being said, I still think Verain's suggestion of talking about different ships and different builds on different maps a must read. If any one has ANYTHING on that subject I would LOVE to hear thoughts. That may get me to shuffle some things around, as I may learn a lot that I dont know, because while I am a good pilot, I will never pretend to be the best or know everything this game has I am a long way from that.

 

Edit 2: Also wanted to say thanks to Verain, and Drak because while we VERY rarely agree on anything, I do appreciate the respect.

Edited October 23, 2014 by tunewalker

[Drakkolich]

More or less this. The QLC do about 7% more damage but the LC have more accuracy. In terms of expected damage perfectly centered at long range on a target with zero evasion the QLC win out barely, though by so little it will basically never have a practical effect. With the same RoF neither has the burst advantage. In theory, expected damage favours one over the other depending on things like target evasion, angle, and whether Wingman and TT are up. This makes it sound like the two are about equivalent, or even like QLC has the edge.

 

However, this is not so, because the number of shots needed to kill someone in GSF is relatively low. A single-digit percentage difference is unlikely to reduce the number of shots needed to kill someone. You would need to make anywhere from 14 to 20+ hits for QLC's higher expected damage to actually affect the ammount of time it takes to kill someone. This is rare; at the lower end of the scale it can happen (shooting a fully intact bomber with no accuracy issues when you don't obtain any crits and after you've run out of pods, for instance) but it is rare. On the other hand, in situations where LC have the advantage, you could have an extra hit due to the higher accuracy. An extra hit will always have a tangible effect on the gamestate.

 

The simplified TL;DR of this post is that when QLC outperform LC, it's in a way that doesn't matter, but when LC outperform QLC it does matter.

 

The T1 scout still loses out for the medium range pods builds, but because of not having Retros and Reactor being generally better than Sensors. I still stand by the claim the T1 scout is good enough to compete with the T2, though. The T2's edge is small.

 

Apparently were doing more weapon comparing here.

 

Quads Dps 881-819-663 Range 500-3000-5000

Accuracy 110%-95%-85%

 

Laser Cannon Dps 823-764-582 Range 500-3000-5000

Accuracy 100%-95%-90%

 

Right off the bat we can see they have the same accuracy at close and mid range, and laser has a 5% advantage at max range. The dps however is better for quads the whole way threw. Lets figure out by how much in each range.

 

Quads vs Laser cannon close range dps 881 vs 823, so we do 823x100 then divide by 881 gives us 93.4%. So Quads do 6.6% more damage then Laser at Close range and they have the same base accuracy.

 

Quads vs Laser cannon mid range dps 819 vs 764, 764x100 then divide by 819 gives us 93.3%. So Quads do 6.7% more damage at mid range and they have the same base accuracy.

 

Quads vs Laser Cannon max range dps 663 vs 582, 582x100 then divide by 663 gives us 87.8%. So Quads do 12.2% more damage at max range, however Laser cannon now had 5% more base accuracy.

 

We also have a slight tracking penalty difference 1.5% vs 1.2%. They both have the same firing arc size of 24 degrees. Which means the highest deflection shot is 12x1.5 and 12x1.2 which becomes Quads losing 18% accuracy at max deflection and Laser losing 14.4% at max deflection.

 

So in close range you give up 6.6% damage to gain a maximum of 3.6% accuracy (from tracking penalty)

 

In mid range you give up 6.7% damage to gain a maximum of 3.6% accuracy (from tracking penalty)

 

And in Max range you give up 12.2% damage to gain 5% accuracy and another 3.6% accuracy (from tracking penalty)

 

Looking at these numbers I would conclude that Killing power wise Quads would always be superior.

 

The only other advantage Laser has over Quads is less weapon power draw the difference being 22 per second for Quads vs 19 per second for Laser cannon. With burst damage being way more important then sustained damage I still can't see this putting it over the edge.

 

Look forward to your comments.

[MiaowZedong]

Apparently were doing more weapon comparing here.

 

Quads Dps 881-819-663 Range 500-3000-5000

Accuracy 110%-95%-85%

 

Laser Cannon Dps 823-764-582 Range 500-3000-5000

Accuracy 100%-95%-90%

 

Right off the bat we can see they have the same accuracy at close and mid range, and laser has a 5% advantage at max range. The dps however is better for quads the whole way threw. Lets figure out by how much in each range.

 

Quads vs Laser cannon close range dps 881 vs 823, so we do 823x100 then divide by 881 gives us 93.4%. So Quads do 6.6% more damage then Laser at Close range and they have the same base accuracy.

 

Quads vs Laser cannon mid range dps 819 vs 764, 764x100 then divide by 819 gives us 93.3%. So Quads do 6.7% more damage at mid range and they have the same base accuracy.

 

Quads vs Laser Cannon max range dps 663 vs 582, 582x100 then divide by 663 gives us 87.8%. So Quads do 12.2% more damage at max range, however Laser cannon now had 5% more base accuracy.

 

We also have a slight tracking penalty difference 1.5% vs 1.2%. They both have the same firing arc size of 24 degrees. Which means the highest deflection shot is 12x1.5 and 12x1.2 which becomes Quads losing 18% accuracy at max deflection and Laser losing 14.4% at max deflection.

 

So in close range you give up 6.6% damage to gain a maximum of 3.6% accuracy (from tracking penalty)

 

In mid range you give up 6.7% damage to gain a maximum of 3.6% accuracy (from tracking penalty)

 

And in Max range you give up 12.2% damage to gain 5% accuracy and another 3.6% accuracy (from tracking penalty)

 

Looking at these numbers I would conclude that Killing power wise Quads would always be superior.

 

The only other advantage Laser has over Quads is less weapon power draw the difference being 22 per second for Quads vs 19 per second for Laser cannon. With burst damage being way more important then sustained damage I still can't see this putting it over the edge.

 

Look forward to your comments.

Well, I made a big mistake in my original post, which was not checking how the damage scales. Indeed quads lose less damage over range, which makes the argument for them much more compelling—12% more damage is indeed more likely to result in a reduced TTK.

 

So I was wrong, and in most situations the QLC will come out as being slightly better. I'll still post my working, though.

 

For starters, a quick mathematical nitpick:

Quads vs Laser cannon mid range dps 819 vs 764, 764x100 then divide by 819 gives us 93.3%. So Quads do 6.7% more damage at mid range and they have the same base accuracy.

This means that LC do 6.7% less damage than QLC. However, QLC do 764/819= 1.07 times the damage of LC, i.e. 7% more damage than LC. 7.198 and some more digits, but I rounded it to 7% initially.

 

This seems pedantic because the difference is trifling and negligible in this case, however calculating the right percentage for what you're saying is important, and not doing so can become a big mistake when the percentages are larger. 2 is 33% less than 3 but 3 is 50% more—if you conclude 3 is 33% more, you can make a serious mistake.

 

Aherm, sorry for that little mathematical reminder

 

Now, how much is 5% accuracy worth? Well, that depends on the situation, of course. Let's suppose you're shooting at a battlescout, perfectly centered, near maximum range. You have the pinpointing passive, of course. That's 96% accuracy for Laser Cannon and 91% for QLC, but he's a battlescout, so he has 33% passive evasion. That's 63% and 58% accuracy after evasion is taken into account.

 

In terms of expected DPS, that's (663*58)/(582*63)=1.048.. so QLC are expected to deal 4.8% more DPS...that makes it sound like they're still better, right?

 

Well, no. Like for the RFL comparisons, you have to remember that damage comes in discrete packages, not some continuous ammount of DPS.

 

In this case, we said we're shooting a battlescout; LC has 150 RPM, so 2.5 shots a second. This means 233 damage per shot at max range. The battlescout has 2250HP (shields+hull), so you require 10 shots to kill him.

 

QLC also has 150 RPM. The damage per shot is higher, 265. This reduces the number of shots needed to 9, an actual tangible difference.

 

However, the LC is more likely to hit. So, how long is your expected Time to Kill? Well (remembering that you get your first shot without waiting a cycle) it takes 3.6s to fire 10 shots and 3.2s to fire 9. Divided by 0.63 and 0.58 respectively, it yields 5.7 and 5.5 seconds respectively. So the QLC TTK sounds shorter—except you can't have a partial firing cycle. You must fire an integer ammount of times. And rounded to an integer number of shots fired, the expected TTK is indeed in the QLC's favour: 5.6s (15 shots) versus 6s (16 shots) for the LC.

 

Of course, in practice GSF is not scouts statically shooting at each other at max blaster range. With rocket pods factored in, the TTK with the two guns is equal; if you consider Wingman+TT versus DF, the LC actually come out better. They also come out better if you consider significant angles. On the other hand, if you consider other targets, the QLC can come out even more ahead (for instance, against a charged plating bomber—of course neither weapon is ideal for that scenario).

 

We've also not considered capacitators; the above maths is strictly true for Range Capacitor, and the comparison of the two guns holds true for Frequency Capacitator. It's only true in most cases for Damage Capacitator, though. Generally speaking anything that reduces the number of shots needed to kill a target (damage increase, crits, DO) can improve how Laser Cannon compare to QLC.

 

However, in most situations, the QLC do indeed perform at least as well. I was mistaken in my original post. QLC are overall the better weapon, albeit not by much, and such the T2 scout does offer optimal firepower for a rocket pods medium range build

Edited October 24, 2014 by MiaowZedong

[Verain]

That's a lot of math and I'm not gonna check it right now because you both seem to come to similar conclusions.

 

The bottom line is this: quads is higher dps, and that's all that matters for quads and pods. Lasers deals a lot less damage when you ignore center cone accuracy, and since so MUCH of your time is spent under TT with a centered target with that build...

 

And that's really the end of the 'quads versus lasers' compare for that. In a general dogfighting scenario, both of those weapons have ups and downs. During a burst situation, there is NO comparison- neither will miss with TT blazing, and there would have to be a lot of misses to make up for the 18% to 11% damage boost quads enjoy.

[ALaggyGrunt]

That's a lot of math and I'm not gonna check it right now because you both seem to come to similar conclusions.

 

The bottom line is this: quads is higher dps, and that's all that matters for quads and pods. Lasers deals a lot less damage when you ignore center cone accuracy, and since so MUCH of your time is spent under TT with a centered target with that build...

 

And that's really the end of the 'quads versus lasers' compare for that. In a general dogfighting scenario, both of those weapons have ups and downs. During a burst situation, there is NO comparison- neither will miss with TT blazing, and there would have to be a lot of misses to make up for the 18% to 11% damage boost quads enjoy.

 

If I start unloading a quad/laser/pod scout at you, are you going to just hold still? Probably not. About the only thing that you would hold still for is a stock Novadive, cause everyone underestimates those when they first see an unfamiliar ace in one.

Tracking penalty matters when trying to chase something which flies crazy and stacks evasion.

[Verain]

If I start unloading a quad/laser/pod scout at you, are you going to just hold still?

 

If I'm not moving BEFORE he's doing that, I'm doing it wrong. But that doesn't mean that he can't get a bead during evasive things and land some shots. That's the only time he'll be able to threaten me at all, and it absolutely is a threat. Outside of him nose on me, I'm not dying, because he can't hit with a pod. If your argument just became "if you are dogfighting with a scout, the laser will do more damage over a long enough time", well, maybe, but also, who cares. We're discussing a specific build, and the results are absolutely clear.

 

Probably not. About the only thing that you would hold still for is a stock Novadive, cause everyone underestimates those when they first see an unfamiliar ace in one.

 

Wait, so type 1 scout is better because some pilots might underestimate it? That's damning with faint praise if it has ever been done. I don't hold still and tank anything unless I simply am willing to die to land the shot, and that happens sometimes.

 

The simple fact is, it is a lower damage build, and this is not uncontroversial. I told you why, and right above that Drako did the math again just in case.

 

 

Tracking penalty matters when trying to chase something which flies crazy and stacks evasion.

 

...and if that's your target, both builds are terrible and you want BLCs for a start.

 

 

 

 

Here's the real way to know you are just arguing to argue- no one actually mains a lasers and pods novadive and claims it is better than a quads and pods flashfire. The few pilots who live and die by this spec, basically playing nothing else and doing a lot of damage with it, all run type 2 scout. The actual thing that changes is that some of them will run BLC instead of quads, dropping the high dps to be able to drill into charged plating and get back a bit of dogfighting prowess.

 

 

Lasers and pods is the highest damage build for a novadive, but the type 2 scout does it much better.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Verain

[Ryuku-sama]

Lasers and pods is the highest damage build for a novadive, but the type 2 scout does it much better.

 

In fact.. The highest damage build if you consider nothing but DPS is the LLC/pods. If you consider range this build begins to lose at 2000m. If you consider tracking penality, this build lose to BLC by a wide margin. If you consider ability to kill many target inside TT window, it lose to quad'n'pods through its lack of range.... Basicly while LLC/pods is the highest DPS build, it is almost impossible to rely on said DPS, at least when you see quad'n'pod and BLC.

[RickDagles]

Overall I would say the difference between quads/pods and lasers/pods is almost negligible. The primary difference is the lack of Reactor for T1 scout (so 260 damage - basically it can take 1 less blaster hit than the T2 scout). Although the T1 scout can sometimes benefit from having dampening sensors with Akaavi Spar.

 

Overall they are extremely similar ships and your choice is unlikely to affect the results of the match.

Edited October 24, 2014 by RickDagles

[Magira]

Overall they are extremely similar ships and your choice is unlikely to affect the results of the match.

 

If I would use at both Scouts Distortion, then I would also prefer the T2. T1 Pod Build IMHO makes sense only with S2E Converter.

[zaskar]

The best T1 pilot there is, Zuchisen, uses llc and sabprobe with devastating efficiency. The key to llc is the overlooked frequency capacitor.

[Drakkolich]

The best T1 pilot there is, Zuchisen, uses llc and sabprobe with devastating efficiency. The key to llc is the overlooked frequency capacitor.

 

Wow that is quite the claim, I can't refute it as I've never played against Zuchisen but now hope too. Using LLC and sabprobe to be the best T1 pilot there is would definitely be something to see!

 

As for using frequency capacitor with LLC and that it is overlooked, when is it overlooked? I use frequency for all lasers except BLC (range capacitor) and Quads (damage capacitor)

[Ryuku-sama]

Wow that is quite the claim, I can't refute it as I've never played against Zuchisen but now hope too. Using LLC and sabprobe to be the best T1 pilot there is would definitely be something to see!

 

As for using frequency capacitor with LLC and that it is overlooked, when is it overlooked? I use frequency for all lasers except BLC (range capacitor) and Quads (damage capacitor)

 

lol.. I use range on HLC... But otherwise, frequency all the way.

[Nemarus]

The best T1 pilot there is, Zuchisen, uses llc and sabprobe with devastating efficiency. The key to llc is the overlooked frequency capacitor.

 

As I consider myself one of the best T1 Scout pilots, I've no choice but to bristle a bit at this

 

In an age of Power Dive and Distortion Field, who gets hit with Sabprobe? Also Sabprobe gets zero benefit from Damage Overcharge, which is pretty much the easiest way for a T1 to deal damage and get kills.

 

Looking back at past records threads, most are dominated by T1 Gunships and T2 Scouts. Those few records posted for T1 Scouts all use MLC/Pods. Here's a sampling of past Blackbolt/NovaDive records:

 

http://i.imgur.com/RlUoKoX.jpg

http://files.enjin.com/548264/Uploads/NovaDrive_Score.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wG4fIiF.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GpGqKNb.jpg

http://fractalsponge.net/swtor/swtor%202014-08-14%2022-30-43-20.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/p8zLrG6.png

http://i.imgur.com/u90ZjYc.png

 

If Zuchisen posts these kinds of kill/damage/DPS numbers using LLC's and Sabotage Probe, I'd love to know how he does it. Perhaps he's using EMP Field to take away their engine break first? Maybe ... but it still seems very slow in terms of kill-per-minute.

 

Even with EMP to set someone up for the probe, it has a minute cooldown. And without it, I just don't see how enough people would let themselves get hit by Sabotage Probe for it to be that threatening.

 

LLC's instead of MLC's is more believable, though I generally find it is easier to use MLC's (with Ranged Capacitors) to finish off slippery targets who survive the initial burst attack. It's a lot easier to keep someone within 5750m in scope than it is to keep someone within 4000m in scope.

 

Still, I have an open mind and would love to see a successful alternate style with the wonderful T1 Scout.