Verain Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Thermite is listed (and appears in game) as having the same arc as proton. But, there's simply no way this is true. While both torpedos often lose lock mysteriously at the edges- likely due to the fact that the server must verify every lock-on- this is noticeably more frequent with the thermite. Possibilities: 1)- Thermites and Protons use different code. 2)- Thermites are "checked" an additional time, for some reason. 3)- The "extra arc" crewmember and/or talent are only being applied in PART, but it looks normal on our screen. 4)- Internally thermites just have a smaller arc, but this doesn't display on the client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkolich Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 There is definitely something wrong with it, because it's so much easier to lock protons then it is thermites and they are the exact same firing arc and lock on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatSatan Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Yep. And for that reason I virtually never use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I don't think it is 3 or 4. I kept a lock pretty close to the side a few times... But they do are harder to lock for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I have noticed lately thermites dropping locks mysteriously even when the target is relatively centered in the firing arc which never happens with protorps. For a while I kept thinking something was wrong with my right mouse button but the more I paid attention the more it looked like a bug since that's the only secondary weapon that gives me a mountain of trouble. Glad to know I'm not crazy though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaskar Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 I have noticed lately thermites dropping locks mysteriously even when the target is relatively centered in the firing arc which never happens with protorps. For a while I kept thinking something was wrong with my right mouse button but the more I paid attention the more it looked like a bug since that's the only secondary weapon that gives me a mountain of trouble. Glad to know I'm not crazy though. ^This^ I actually RMA'ed my G600 because of this, only when a brand new one did the same did I look after the mouse. I'm sure I'm ok since protorps are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALaggyGrunt Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 Every missile firing cone is bugged because of lag. There are very many times your firing cone and target aren't where they say they are because your client's version of the state of the battlefield is always out of sync with the server's. So, even though you keep a target dead center as it's trying to move across your firing cone, your lock will very often break because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted October 12, 2014 Author Share Posted October 12, 2014 We are all well aware of this. This is a bug with thermite, not the lag thing, which is mentioned in the OP. Thermite could have more of this (I mentioned it could be "checked an additional time, for some reason"). Again, we all have issues with missiles and torps from time to time, especially on high latency connections. This is SPECIFICALLY regarding thermites, which we can test versus protons, which are ostensibly the exact same as regards this, but in practice are not. Hence, I am convinced Thermite Torpedo's arc is bugged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximilianPower Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) I have noticed lately thermites dropping locks mysteriously even when the target is relatively centered in the firing arc which never happens with protorps. For a while I kept thinking something was wrong with my right mouse button but the more I paid attention the more it looked like a bug since that's the only secondary weapon that gives me a mountain of trouble. Glad to know I'm not crazy though. +1. I tend to switch between thermites and EMP on the T3 scout frequently, but lately I've been sticking with EMPs for exactly this reason. I found myself mysteriously losing (more or less) dead-center thermite locks far too frequently. It's a shame, because I like using them in general. Edited October 13, 2014 by MaximilianPower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (edited) +1. I tend to switch between thermites and EMP on the T3 scout frequently, but lately I've been sticking with EMPs for exactly this reason. I found myself mysteriously losing (more or less) dead-center thermite locks far too frequently. It's a shame, because I like using them in general. With those dead center lock drops I kinda feel like I'm giving my enemies an additional missile break. I plan to switch over to protorps on my Clarion once I buy the T5 upgrade. Protorps are good don't get me wrong but thermites can be absolutely devastating when they hit so I'm also disappointed that I need to switch. I actually RMA'ed my G600 because of this, only when a brand new one did the same did I look after the mouse. I'm sure I'm ok since protorps are good. I use a G502 for what that's worth. Sometimes Logitech's gaming software freaks out and decides to use the wrong profile but aside from that I've never noticed buttons not doing what they're supposed to be doing. My test on the functionality of my right mouse button has been with pods which always fire consistently and never "misfire" so I'm quite convinced that the problem is with the game and not the hardware. Or my mouse has become self aware and is screwing with me by working fine except when I want to launch a thermite Edited October 13, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Have y'all tested this while deselecting the extra range talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted October 13, 2014 Author Share Posted October 13, 2014 An interesting proposition- you think that proton is the one that is bugged, to be better than designed at not breaking? To answer, not precisely, but I've seen proton not have this issue before mastery. The bigger problem is that it is hard to test exactly. So I can't rule that out, at all- but I will say it seems a little unlikely, as the thermite snap breaks normally happen with enemies who are laterally mobile relative to me, and at no great distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 An interesting proposition- you think that proton is the one that is bugged, to be better than designed at not breaking? Occam's Razor - we know for sure of precisely one difference between the two. The other explanations proposed seem to be less plausible. For instance, the theory that thermite secretly has a smaller firing arc. The tooltips matching obviously isn't reliable evidence, but the fact that the actual observed firing arcs are the same makes it less likely that the underlying statistic is different. (I would by default assume that the UI is driven by the weapon data.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted October 15, 2014 Author Share Posted October 15, 2014 Occam's Razor - we know for sure of precisely one difference between the two. I actually am going to disagree here. We know of SEVERAL differences between the two. This one, the range one, *should* be a simple numeric value, and it appears to function fine for proton, concussion, clusters, ion missile, EMP missile, and sabotage probe. If anything, the difference could be "if you have a range upgrade talent in your tree, then you work correctly". Meanwhile, the bigger differences could be based on the very different history of these these two. Thermite appears to have started as a very different thing, was patched just before launch, was patched again (making it useful) later, etc. I think THOSE differences, which could be substantial under the hood, would be where to look first. The other explanations proposed seem to be less plausible. For instance, the theory that thermite secretly has a smaller firing arc. Given the sheer number of targeting circle bugs in this game, I find that WAY more plausible, though. Several things have been secretly wrong. > Railgun arc used to use primary weapon arc. > Railgun arc can change to primary weapon arc when a crew skill is used, meaning a crew skill could be somehow involved in the drawing or use of a firing arc. > Railgun arc gets dorked up if say, plasma and slug are both used (plasma has a larger arc, but often doesn't get it if slug is also on your ship). > Missile firing arc has special code server side and special code client side, and both are used and must agree. > Firing arc is handled oddly- for instance, "adds two degrees" means one thing if it is on a crew passive, another thing if it is on a talent. My "best guess" is this: the server code uses the wrong firing arc, off by two degrees or something. (I would by default assume that the UI is driven by the weapon data.) The UI appears to be driven by the client side weapon data. What is the server missile check logic based on? We have no idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 These are reasonable points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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