Lorewise, Revan not teaming up with the Republic makes no sense

[captaincr]

I would argue that Revan has little interest in saving the Republic, his goal is more around the destruction of the Emperor and his followers.

 

He was sliding towards the Dark Side long before he met the Emperor, he had a do what it takes and stay out of my way mentality. He was willing to throw away his own soldiers lives and promote wanton slaughter of his enemies with no regrets.

 

He was pretty much dark before the end of the Mando wars. The Emperor just had to probably push on his desires for the power to get things done to send him completely into the deep end.

 

Then he did what most Sith probably do in that he justified war and wanton slaughter to somehow save the galaxy.

 

I would argue that the only time that he was every truly light was when they wiped out his mind, the Revan that you saw in KOTOR was not Revan he was a construct basically manufactured by the Jedi. It wasn't a matter of if but when he would fall again.

 

He was a man with no patience, very little compassion and a drive to get things done and justify it as required to win a war, or bring security.

 

He's not trying to save the Republic, the Republic to him was a government that tried to interfere and hamper his methods and short cuts.

 

Revan's actions even when he was so called light side in Kotor had flashes of dark to them.

 

The Revan that your seeing wants to protect the galaxy by exterminating probably billions so he can rebuild it in his own image.

 

He doesn't want the republics help because he wants to destroy it and replace it, he wants to ensure the destruction of the Emperor and the Sith because they're a threat to his new order.

 

He's not a Sith, he's far worse because he can justify his actions under the guise of saving lives via destruction and probably if he succeeds a harsh dictatorship.

 

The only thing that could have held him in check would be his long dead wife and child, I would argue that if his descendants got in the way ie Satele, he's slaughter her without a thought.

[WickedDjinn]

I agree that Revan has, or should have, little love for the Republic.

 

Everything ever written about the character of Revan suggests his complete disregard for tradition and institutions of authority. Revan cares about progress, whatever that happens to be at the times. He's very much an "end justifies the means" sort of personality and has been from the very beginning. He is the very soul of an extremist.

 

He's already demonstrated this, over and over again. He is willing to sacrifice civilians, cities, even entire planets to reach a particular goal.... and that's when he was saving the Republic from the Mandalorians! He's shown repeatedly that he respects neither the Republic as a government, which he views as ineffective, nor the Jedi Order, which he views as stagnant.

 

Add the fact that he's likely... you know... insane by now, and his recent actions don't seem out of character in the least.

[pbajnokl]

I'll just leave this here and off I go:

 

 

 

Hint, hint: "Revanites", "Led", "By", "Revan". "Mustering", "army", "apocalyptic", "plan". "Republic", "Empire", "ashes."

 

Sounds like a good thing.

 

As I read your comments and analysis over Revan character... I have to say that.... that I couldn't agree with u more!

YOUR analysis is beyond perfect. I Think the same about Revan... even in the Kotor I couldn't play with him as a Jedi (in classic meaning) for me he was more darker character a chaotic neutral or lawful evil.

 

A lot of people forget it or WANT TO "forget it" that Revan "falling to the dark side" (more like gray side) started before the emperror mind controll, and broke free from him (most likely by his own will) before bastila's strike team. And that not even the hero of tython could achive. (I just thougth i mention it because I did't find it in ur arguments)

[errant_knight]

Revan has always had a ruthless side. It's one of the reasons he was such a great general during the mando wars. He knew how to get things done. I don't think we can forget that Revan was sharing a mind with the emperor for 300 years. While he was influencing the emperor and staving off invasion for 300 years, it's more tha a little likely that the emperor was influencing him, especially when that trait of ruthlessnes was there to work with.

 

Revan was free when he decided that the best way to deal with the sith

was to kill the majority of the population of the empire

(Foundry), so this isn't a big stretch. I think we forget what it would be like to spend any time mind to mind with the emperor and what a strong person it would take to hold onto any ideals or sanity at all.

 

(Massive spoiler for the knight story ahead, don't read if you haven't played it. Please use spoilers to respond cause it's so huge)

No matter how good a knight you play, the emperor can turn them and make them do horrific things--and that's in a matter of weeks, not hundreds of years.

 

 

Even before his initial fall, he had lille respect for republic leaddership or the council. When he did fall, the thought the best way to save the republic, he thought that the best way to save it was to destroy its current, weak incarnation and start over. When people fall to the darkside, they don't generally change their beliefs, they just view their options differently--

which says something about the knight, actually.

 

 

His complexity is what makes him such an interesting and beloved character, not some kind of inate 'goodness'.

Edited October 13, 2014 by errant_knight

[GrandLordMenace]

The Revan we are getting in 3.0 is THE revan. The Revan played in KoTOR is Revan reborn into the idealistic Jedi he was pre mandalorian wars, dedicated to saving the Republic. When he puts back on the mask, he is granted the knowledge and experience of his past, and the knowledge of the depths he must go to destroy the emperor.

 

Revan was superior to Malak in that in his attempt to initially destroy the Republic but leave the infrastructure and worlds intact to properly rebuild to battle the emperor. Malak was wanton destruction incarnate.

 

What Revan is doing here is similar. The fact of the matter is, the Republic and Empire are NOT in a position to battle the full might of an Emperor believed dead. Revan is the Galaxy's biggest victim of the Emperor, and as such, he's out to create a Galaxy ready to END the Emperor once and for all. Problem is, the Emperor is still Sith, and the Emperor is the most powerful Sith in current existence, and the Republic has repeatedly canonically proven that it doesn't have the guts to do the deed (The JK doesn't kill the emperor canonically as a Light Sider, the Emperor commits Voice Suicide. Who's to say the Republic will have the guts to do what it does against the real emperor?)

 

The Chancellor was willing to exchange General Rakton for POWs! Revan would've killed the General then rescued the POW's or ignored them entirely. He is the embodiment of Rakata Philosophy. In the original KOTOR, the Star Map was protected by a computer that had various philosophical questions. Revan answered them all correctly initially when he was a Sith Lord, and as such had passed the "Rakatan Psychopath Strategist Test" and is essentially prepared to do what's necessary.

 

He sacrificed Malachor as a Jedi pre domination by the Emperor to save the Republic. He blew up a planet for crying out loud, to stop the Mandalorians. He left legions to die on Dxun. Revan is not a hero, he's a realist. That's what makes him dangerous.

 

Revan at the height of his power is most akin to the Dark Side Jedi Knight, willing to sacrifice to do what's necessary. When he was mindwiped, he emerged as the idealist Jedi again, believing in everything the Republic stood for, but as he regained his memory, he started becoming willing to sacrifice everything once again, stranding himself on Dromund Kass. Once he regains his memory, you could say that he's still the KOTOR Revan, he has the experience of his Sith Lord self, but at the same time, it's like a past life. It's not "HIM," and he's changed due to Bastila and having a Son.

 

The Emperor is the TRUE tipping point to revert Revan to his Sith Lord self. In essence, he's been stripped back to where he started. He is without Bastila, a son, family, friends, an Order to call home. He has an apathetic Republic fueled by inaction and blinded by hatred for the Sith to notice the Emperor is still kicking.

 

So yes, I think this is Revan. We will be fighting the man who blew up a planet to end a war, who murdered Mandalore, who would destroy an entire species to prevent evil to returning, who would ignore the council to end a threat to the galaxy. This is the same Revan.

[DarthAeonis]

well according to the new podcast about 3.0....

 

The goal of Revan in 3.0 is to resurrect the Emperor in order to destroy everything

 

[Neltronluur]

well according to the new podcast about 3.0....

 

The goal of Revan in 3.0 is to resurrect the Emperor in order to destroy everything

 

That seems like a real stretch considering his whole rhyme and reason for doing what he does is to destroy said evil. Of course by text alone, I cannot tell the stance you take on it.

[Darth_Wicked]

So yes, I think this is Revan. We will be fighting the man who blew up a planet to end a war, who murdered Mandalore, who would destroy an entire species to prevent evil to returning, who would ignore the council to end a threat to the galaxy. This is the same Revan.

 

He fought Mandalore the Ultimate in honorable combat. He didn't outright murder him.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Quickpaw]

well according to the new podcast about 3.0....

 

The goal of Revan in 3.0 is to resurrect the Emperor in order to destroy everything

 

'Sigh.' Why am I not surprised. Pulling a Hellscream.

[GrandLordMenace]

He fought Mandalore the Ultimate in honorable combat. He didn't outright murder him.

 

Well he killed him okay

[Darth_Wicked]

Well he killed him okay

 

Just pointing out they engaged one another in combat, not so much Revan stabbing him in the back or anything.

[Jrr_hypernova]

well according to the new podcast about 3.0....

 

The goal of Revan in 3.0 is to resurrect the Emperor in order to destroy everything

 

That makes less sense than ice cream stand on hoth

[magicallypuzzled]

well according to the new podcast about 3.0....

 

The goal of Revan in 3.0 is to resurrect the Emperor in order to destroy everything

 

your guessing at revans motivations for ressing the emperor no where was it stated.

 

i personally imagine revan views the encounter going something like this.

 

revan : hah i ressed you into a mortal body where i can destroy you permanently die sucker.

 

emperor: noooooooo

 

revan slices him in half.

 

the rest of the galaxy who isn't insane thinks the encounter will go something like this:

 

revan: hah i ressed you into a mortal body where i can destroy you permanently die sucker.

 

emperor: hahaha your my whipping boy fool now come for your spanking and tell me who your daddy is.

 

revan: yes master daddy sir.

 

thus we get why both the republic and empire thinks he has to be stopped while revan him self thinks he's still the revan he's always been.

Edited October 14, 2014 by magicallypuzzled

[Branosaros]

That makes less sense than ice cream stand on hoth

 

Oh, now you tell me! My enterprise is ruined!

[Draekat]

Man there is some serious love for the parent material here. With so much passion on both sides I think this arc is going to be most entertaining!

[jarshr]

yer as said above the 3.0 podcast indicates that Revan is trying to resurrect the emperor so he can finally kill him, what makes less sense, is apparently the ONLY way Revan can do this, is by unleashing a doomsday weapon, to wipe out trillions, just to bring him back and kill him...so..... not sure how that is going to play out, im sure the expansion will make more sense of it all.

[Arijharn]

Here's my take on a couple of things:

1) The Republic is pretty damn corrupt. Case in point: The whole Belsavis prison planet. The Sith Empire is also pretty morally bankrupt (see Sith infighting, which is why the Empire is on the ropes as it is... although Isotope-5 may even the odds somewhat considering they've secretly been mining Makeb for however long between Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Shadows of Revan)

 

2) Revan is charismatic and powerful enough to believe he can get away with getting what he wants, and disregard the consequences (or more likely; accept them as inevitable). More than anything, I think Revan desires stability. The continual wars between the Sith Empire and the Republic has killed untold billions on both sides every time there is an ideological spat between the Sith and Jedi. Revan is experienced in both, has been a Sith as much as he has been a Jedi. I'm pretty sure he see's the flaws and vulnerabilities of both. The problem being of course, is both the Sith and Jedi teachings have become so ingrained into the cultural identities of both the Sith & Republic that it's impossible to separate them. It may be that he views it as corrupt enough to declare martial law with the might of his legions and systematically dismantle the governments of both in order to bring some semblance of stability to the galaxy.

[Eltimir]

Here's my take on a couple of things:

1) The Republic is pretty damn corrupt. Case in point: The whole Belsavis prison planet. The Sith Empire is also pretty morally bankrupt (see Sith infighting, which is why the Empire is on the ropes as it is... although Isotope-5 may even the odds somewhat considering they've secretly been mining Makeb for however long between Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Shadows of Revan)

 

2) Revan is charismatic and powerful enough to believe he can get away with getting what he wants, and disregard the consequences (or more likely; accept them as inevitable). More than anything, I think Revan desires stability. The continual wars between the Sith Empire and the Republic has killed untold billions on both sides every time there is an ideological spat between the Sith and Jedi. Revan is experienced in both, has been a Sith as much as he has been a Jedi. I'm pretty sure he see's the flaws and vulnerabilities of both. The problem being of course, is both the Sith and Jedi teachings have become so ingrained into the cultural identities of both the Sith & Republic that it's impossible to separate them. It may be that he views it as corrupt enough to declare martial law with the might of his legions and systematically dismantle the governments of both in order to bring some semblance of stability to the galaxy.

 

No not really....i wish it was something like that.But i bet its as silly and cliche as it sounds - mad leader,fanatical army,apocalyptic plan.

Wish Drew Karpyshyn still worked for them (and i thought that his work in the book Revan was terrible).Its a sad end for once great character.

[Eltimir]

Here's my take on a couple of things:

1) The Republic is pretty damn corrupt. Case in point: The whole Belsavis prison planet. The Sith Empire is also pretty morally bankrupt (see Sith infighting, which is why the Empire is on the ropes as it is... although Isotope-5 may even the odds somewhat considering they've secretly been mining Makeb for however long between Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Shadows of Revan)

 

2) Revan is charismatic and powerful enough to believe he can get away with getting what he wants, and disregard the consequences (or more likely; accept them as inevitable). More than anything, I think Revan desires stability. The continual wars between the Sith Empire and the Republic has killed untold billions on both sides every time there is an ideological spat between the Sith and Jedi. Revan is experienced in both, has been a Sith as much as he has been a Jedi. I'm pretty sure he see's the flaws and vulnerabilities of both. The problem being of course, is both the Sith and Jedi teachings have become so ingrained into the cultural identities of both the Sith & Republic that it's impossible to separate them. It may be that he views it as corrupt enough to declare martial law with the might of his legions and systematically dismantle the governments of both in order to bring some semblance of stability to the galaxy.

 

No not really....i wish it was something like that.But i bet its as silly and cliche as it sounds - mad leader,fanatical army,apocalyptic plan.

Wish Drew Karpyshyn still worked for them (and i thought that his work in the book Revan was terrible).Its a sad end for once great character.

[MOAI]

I agree. The Revan that I played in KOTOR would not have made the decisions that were made by this Revan. I would hope that Revan is possessed by the emperor. Revan resurrecting the emperor just to kill him sounds like a story from the anime Slayers. The story of Revan after KOTOR and KOTOR II kind of ruined the KOTOR and KOTOR II games.

[Marcinek]

I think its easier to speculate and argue about this or exchange facts than it's actually worth. All in all we will find out from the expansion whether there is a secret motive to him deciding to turn against republic or just pure greed of living in a past time when he was a great Jedi.

 

I haven't read much about Revan nor do i remember exactly what happened in KOTOR but i think that the reason why (if i have to voice my opinion) he turned against the republic will be a secret motive we will find out at the end of the storyline, maybe something to do with Bastilla? His own greed and belief of being a formidable force user or simply a way to get both Empire and Republic players involved in the story and have them team up together.

[Silverspar]

No not really....i wish it was something like that.But i bet its as silly and cliche as it sounds - mad leader,fanatical army,apocalyptic plan.

Wish Drew Karpyshyn still worked for them (and i thought that his work in the book Revan was terrible).Its a sad end for once great character.

 

People make Revan out to be more than he is, all based on their personal choices they made for a faceless mook in a game over a decade ago. Yea, you got attached to him by those choices, but those choices you made, regardless of the ending that is canon (note ending) are not who the man, Revan, is. Revan is not a saint, never has been never will be. People thinking he is some great person that is being unjustly thrown under a bus are blatantly ignoring Revan's history, and what he has done in TOR alone.

[PBalluck]

Anyone ever stop to wonder if this is really even Revan? Towards the end of the Revanite missions on DK, you turn his mask over to the Revanites so its entirely possible that its NOT him... I know that this isn't likely, but it is a possibility I have been toying with.

[Darth_Wicked]

Anyone ever stop to wonder if this is really even Revan? Towards the end of the Revanite missions on DK, you turn his mask over to the Revanites so its entirely possible that its NOT him... I know that this isn't likely, but it is a possibility I have been toying with.

 

Of course they have, me included.

 

• REVAN DIED AT THE FOUNDRY AND THIS MAN IS AN IMPOSTOR
   
  Like the Man in Black from Lost, this being -- I call it Revless -- is posing as Revan, supported by the Revanites' upper echelons.
   
  Seeing both Republic and Empire played a role in the demise of the TRUE Revan, the Revanites now wish to make them pay; they will accomplish this by enacting their decades-old Plan, specifically by torching both factions, if not the ENTIRE galaxy. Who or what Revless is exactly is uncertain.

 

 

 

• REVAN DIED AT THE FOUNDRY AND THIS MAN IS AN IMPOSTOR (V-2)
   
  Fairly similar to the previous theory, but instead of being in cahoots with the Revanites' leadership, Revless is posing as Revan and taking advantage of whatever the Order of Revan is providing him with. Whether he seeks emancipation for himself or is in service of some other master -- like the Sith Emperor -- is unknown.

 

 

 

• THE WRENCHED REVAN
   
  Forfeit his balance in the Force, following his defeat at the Foundry, Revan fell once again to the dark side, thus bringing to the surface his darker persona yet. Akin to Jekyll and Hyde, the latter took over Revan completely. His plans may NOT be what the Revanites think; whether he can be redeemed or reasoned with is uncertain.

 

Still sounds like a cop-out of sorts to me.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Branosaros]

When looking at what Revan throughout lore, we have to take into account that he's betrayed several people before:

Revan turned to the Darkside and betrayed the Jedi.

Revan (influenced by Vitiate) returns from Dromund Kaas and fights the Republic.

Revan betrays Vitiate and decides to start his own Sith Empire (he breaks free of Vitiates will, but continues with his old plan)

Revan has his mind wiped by the Jedi (cue Revan Canon) after being betrayed by Malak. He then fights against his own Empire, and then returns back to Dromund Kaas with the Exile to face down Vitiate.

 

Now, he's turned against the Republic. Revan has no true sense of loyalty to any side. He's never been one to be lead by an ideal, and is a natural leader, and as such he can pretty much run his own show. Of course Revan could turn against the Republic. He's done it before. Just because your Revan didn't, and wouldn't when you played KOTOR doesn't mean this one won't. People change, and not always for the better, and Revan is quite a fickle character.