Is this really Revan?

[DarthBlaide]

I am sure this question is plaguing a lot of us.

 

We don't want to think the hero of the Republic from KOTOR could fall to such lengths, but is it possible he has?

 

Revan was never fully accepted by the Jedi Order after the events of KOTOR, and he knows both sides of the force to the point that they are in balance inside of him.

 

My theory: It is Revan, but it isn't at the same time.

 

The reason Scourge turns against the Emperor in the "Revan" book is because he knows the Emperor wants to kill every single being in the Universe and use their life force to make him live forever. He even goes on to say that there are more galaxies out there that he can go to and steal their life energies as well. And when the Universe is completely dry of life, he will simply wait for life to start over again.

 

The complete destruction of the galaxy sounds nothing like Revan, but it sounds everything like the Emperor.

 

And the Emperor knows how to use "essence transfer" as he is able to do so with the Emperor's Voice. Perhaps he took things a little further and transferred his full essence into Revan's body.

 

 

In the Sith Warrior storyline you become the Emperor's Wrath. Servant 1 and Servant 2 send mail to the Warrior after the endgame and they confirm the Emperor is alive. This only supports my theory.

 

 

As well, the Emperor sent spies to Yavin IV to get rid of the tomb of Naga Sadow...So there is a connection here to some extent.

 

My friend pointed out something as well. This is called "Shadow of Revan"....Is he a Shadow of his former self and he has fallen completely to the dark side? Or could it mean this being is not really Revan, but a shadow imitation of him.

Edited October 6, 2014 by DarthBlaide

[Darth_Wicked]

You're in denial, my friend.

 

Also...

The Emperor's Hand, namely Servant One, points out in the latest mails that there's a disturbance in the Force that he finds unpleasant. As such, it is implied such disturbance is not tied to the Emperor.

 

That by itself makes your theory unlikely.

 

Revan was always on the balance, going back and forth more than once. He's not -- nor he ever was -- the hero you make him out to be.

 

He was an extremist, NEVER an idealist, someone who was more practical than anything else. If his plans required genocide, he'd go for that pure and simple.

 

Malachor V is the greatest example of such, not to mention other tactics he resorted to during the Mandalorian Wars. Did you ever run the Foundry flashpoint by any chance? Do you know what he planned back then?

Edited October 6, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[DarthBlaide]

I can be in denial

 

And yes I have run the Foundry. I believe he could have been already under the influence of the Emperor then.

 

 

As for the SW mails, they have talked about the Emperor still being around. I don't remember the exact wording, but they did mention it.

 

 

Revan was a hero in the sense he saved the galaxy from Malak. He doesn't look at himself as a hero, but that is what he was labelled. I am not saying everything he has ever done is right, but the whole idea of killing the entire galaxy does not fit with the ideals of Revan.

[Darth_Wicked]

I can be in denial

 

And yes I have run the Foundry. I believe he could have been already under the influence of the Emperor then.

 

So the Emperor had 300 years to crack Revan, something he was NEVER truly capable of and all over the sudden... Revan is controlled by the Emperor just because?

 

Sorry but that makes little sense.

 

As for the SW mails, they have talked about the Emperor still being around. I don't remember the exact wording, but they did mention it.

 

 

Servant One also says that he senses something in the Force he finds disturbing, something that wasn't there before. If such was the Emperor, he wouldn't find it disturbing or be alarmed by it.

I believe you're misinterpreting what is said.

 

Revan was a hero in the sense he saved the galaxy from Malak. He doesn't look at himself as a hero, but that is what he was labelled. I am not saying everything he has ever done is right, but the whole idea of killing the entire galaxy does not fit with the ideals of Revan.

 

Malak said it best:

Savior, conqueror, hero, villain. You are all things, Revan... and yet, you are nothing. In the end, you belong to neither the light nor the darkness. You will forever stand alone.

You're not seeing Revan for what he was, as a whole, but merely what you want to see.

 

He didn't save the galaxy per se but corrected something of his own doing. Malak was leading his fleets of ships, his troops, etc etc; Malak didn't get there on his own.

 

He merely took advantage of what Revan enabled him to do.

 

No offense but you seem to be too attached to your own Revan, not so much the historical one.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[DarthBlaide]

We do not know all the ins and outs of what happened over the 300 years Revan was captured. We do know Revan influenced the Emperor since the Treaty of Coruscant occurred. However, we are not told the Emperor never did or couldn't influence Revan. He dominated Revan's mind once before when he first visited Dromund Kaas. Why could he do so easily then, and all of a sudden not be able to?

 

Sorry, but that makes little sense

 

 

As for Thing 1 (my nickname for Servant One). One of the mails he sent says the following:

"While you silenced Darth Baras, the Jedi attempted the impossible feat of destroying the Emperor. Instead, the merely defeated the Emperor's True Voice. The unexpected blow was a shock. The Emperor's consciousness was wrenched from his Voice. He now slumbers, gathering his strength."

 

The next mail he sends ends with: "The Emperor's return approaches. Prepare for his ascendance, Wrath."

 

 

 

Kinda hard to misinterpret that

 

The following is taken from page 4 of Revan by Drew Karpyshyn:

 

"Revan: Jedi; hero; traitor; conqueror; villian; savior"

 

Bastila says on the following page: "You are not the same man you were. The Revan I know is a hero. A champion of the light."

 

I am not just pulling these thoughts about Revan being a hero out of mid-air. Yes he was all of the above, but he was a hero as well.

 

Before leaving, Bastila argues with him that he doesn't have to go to the Unknown Regions to look for what may be there. She says the problem may not even surface until they are old and gray.

 

The following is found on page 78: "It was tempting to give in. It would be easy to pretend nothing was wrong and just live in blissful ignorance like trillions of other beings in the galaxy. There was only one problem with her argument.

 

'I am not doing this for the Republic,' he explained. 'I'm not doing it for you. I'm not even doing it for me. I'm doing it for our child. And our child's children. We might never live to see the horrors that are coming, but they will.' He tightened his arm around her. 'We have to protect the Republic for them. We have to risk our chance at happiness so they can have a life we might never know.'"

 

I don't know about you...but that sounds fairly heroic

Edited October 6, 2014 by DarthBlaide

[Darth_Wicked]

We do not know all the ins and outs of what happened over the 300 years Revan was captured. We do know Revan influenced the Emperor since the Treaty of Coruscant occurred. However, we are not told the Emperor never did or couldn't influence Revan. He dominated Revan's mind once before when he first visited Dromund Kaas. Why could he do so easily then, and all of a sudden not be able to?

 

There are several individuals, namely the Jedi Knight and even Kira, who were able to eventually resist to the Emperor's hold on them.

 

What makes you think Revan is any different? Especially after being assaulted by the Emperor over 300 years?

 

Sorry, but that makes little sense

 

Again, you're misinterpreting or intentionally twisting what is being told to suit your findings. It doesn't work that way.

 

As for Thing 1 (my nickname for Servant One). One of the mails he sent says the following:

"While you silenced Darth Baras, the Jedi attempted the impossible feat of destroying the Emperor. Instead, the merely defeated the Emperor's True Voice. The unexpected blow was a shock. The Emperor's consciousness was wrenched from his Voice. He now slumbers, gathering his strength."

 

The next mail he sends ends with: "The Emperor's return approaches. Prepare for his ascendance, Wrath."

 

 

 

Kinda hard to misinterpret that

 

I guess you haven't seen the latest mails from Servant One. Instead, you go for the ones over two-years old, when class stories were still a part of this game.

 

Again, twisting and misinterpreting. You're not even going for the full facts and that's a shame.

 

The following is taken from page 4 of Revan by Drew Karpyshyn:

 

"Revan: Jedi; hero; traitor; conqueror; villian; savior"

 

Bastila says on the following page: "You are not the same man you were. The Revan I know is a hero. A champion of the light."

 

Just like you, Bastila sees what she wants to see.

 

The same reason she chose to conceal Revan's mask from him, in fear of what that might represent. Kinda odd you forgot to bring that up... Or maybe not.

 

For all intents and purposes, you are Bastila.

 

I am not just pulling these thoughts about Revan being a hero out of mid-air. Yes he was all of the above, but he was a hero as well.

 

Again, the historical Revan -- the one from the Mandalorian Wars and the Foundry -- shows a different picture altogether; You just refuse to see it, let alone consider it.

 

Before leaving, Bastila argues with him that he doesn't have to go to the Unknown Regions to look for what may be there. She says the problem may not even surface until they are old and gray.

 

The following is found on page 78: "It was tempting to give in. It would be easy to pretend nothing was wrong and just live in blissful ignorance like trillions of other beings in the galaxy. There was only one problem with her argument.

 

'I am not doing this for the Republic,' he explained. 'I'm not doing it for you. I'm not even doing it for me. I'm doing it for our child. And our child's children. We might never live to see the horrors that are coming, but they will.' He tightened his arm around her. 'We have to protect the Republic for them. We have to risk our chance at happiness so they can have a life we might never know.'"

 

I don't know about you...but that sounds fairly heroic

 

Will say it again: You refuse to even acknowledge the Revan from the Mandalorian Wars and the one from the Foundry. Instead, you cling to a fairy-tale, going to great lengths to justify whatever evil deed he might have done.

 

This thread is the shining example of such.

 

It's never Revan's fault but always someone else.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[DarthBlaide]

I can see this friendly banter is going to get us nowhere. You have your opinion, and I have mine, and let's just leave it at that =)

[Darth_Wicked]

I can see this friendly banter is going to get us nowhere. You have your opinion, and I have mine, and let's just leave it at that =)

 

Fair enough.

 

I've had this discussion so many times over the years -- especially after TSL -- that I don't mind at all.

[Darkelefantos]

What Wicked is trying to say is that you fail to acknowledge Revan for whom he truly is. Hero, savior, conqueror, all that, maybe. But the true Revan was never this champion of the Light Side you play in KotOR. Not his follow-up from the novel. That's the Revan who has many pieces of his past missing. The true Revan is the one seen in the Mandalorian Wars, the one seen in the Foundry, the one seen now: To achieve his goals, he will do whatever he thinks needs to be done. And he has to do it, because nobody else will in his stead.

 

That's just who he is. There is nothing wrong with that, so just accept him for who he is.

 

On a different note, why would the Emperor want to take over Revan and take control of the Revanites? That's a way more inconvenient and stupid way to achieve his goals, when all he has to do would be getting a body and retaking control of his Empire, which doesn't even require force.

[Kyrrant]

I really, really hope it's not Revan, or at least a Revan that's been severely influenced by the Emperor.

 

The problem with this direction they seem to be taking Revan is that it seems to ignore, and outright denigrate, what happened in KOTOR. That game, on the Light Side bent, was all about redemption. Not only did Revan get his second chance, so did Bastilla, Juhani, Carth as a father, Zaalabar with his tribe, Bastilla's relationship with her mother, Mandalorains in general, HK-47 in a perverse way, Jolee in his own way... even the villain of the piece, Malak, saw the light before his end.

 

Turning him into a genocidal madman in the Foundry, claiming to be both Jedi and Sith before needing to be put down for the sake of peace and sanity, comes out of left field, and is just an insult to all that came before. Keeping him on that path? It's worse.

 

Wicked, the canonical Revan of KOTOR was Light Side to an extreme degree, coming back from being a powerful, dangerous Sith. I know there was this attempt in KOTOR 2 to muddy the waters by claiming that Revan was conquering, but also fortifying... which at best is the dumbest thing you can do if you're trying to make a nation stronger: kill a lot of its soldiers and destroy a lot of infrastructure in the hope that you can rebuild it better before the bad guys come.

 

The Revan of KOTOR, the one that's canonically there and was outright stated to have not killed the source of all Kolto on Manaaan, represents hope, second chances, the very Jedi ideal that your enemy today can see the Light and become a better person.

 

The Revan of TOR, the one that looked at a tense cold war and thought Genocide was the only option, whose backup plan is infiltrating and subverting both sides so he can conquer them both, is a meglomanaical monster, one step away from being as bad as the Emperor.

 

You'll forgive me for wanting the old one back.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Kyrrant

[Neltronluur]

I really, really hope it's not Revan, or at least a Revan that's been severely influenced by the Emperor.

The Revan of TOR, the one that looked at a tense cold war and thought Genocide was the only option, whose backup plan is infiltrating and subverting both sides so he can conquer them both, is a meglomanaical monster, one step away from being as bad as the Emperor.

 

You'll forgive me for wanting the old one back.

 

Repeat the second to last sentence, you may be more right than you think. Also, not that it matters much to me but in regards to the Emperor's Hands, is it possible the Emperor body hopped without their knowledge?

Edited October 7, 2014 by Neltronluur

[KierenHorn]

What we know of Revan post-kotor from the book (which is directly tied to the game) makes me think this can't be Revan.I can see Revan willing to wipe out the sith species, because lets face it they are all of them, except maybe a handful, evil and imbued with the dark side. That being said, him directly opposing the Jedi/Republic which is led by his offspring, unlikely.

 

I hope this is a ruse, and that someone is using his image to attempt and overthrow both sides, and at the end the true Revan will return from his time of sleep after the foundry to aid the overthrow of this third faction. Also, the voice actor sounds different.

[TheBackhandler]

What if........ The Emperor was Revan all along, and despite everything he's been thought to achieve turns out to be the true Sith heir. Or something new? Something worth thinking about. What if Revan has actually orchestrated this massive plot pitting one superpower against another much like Palpatine will 3K yrs later? Not entirely out of the question I think and would be a fitting twist and end to a iconic figure, while slipping the rug out from under all of us. Revan may never wanted to continue the useless strife of both Light and Dark, and may have always fashioned a more revolutionary approach to creating order. Sure this would upset a great many people, but it would demand the utmost respect for a character to have fooled so many deeply involved with is story. Just my thoughts.

[Darkelefantos]

Repeat the second to last sentence, you may be more right than you think. Also, not that it matters much to me but in regards to the Emperor's Hands, is it possible the Emperor body hopped without their knowledge?

 

Since they are guarding his real, original body and are in constant contact with him, I don't think so, no.

[MsMalice]

I think Revan has gone insane and turned to the darkside again, though he would deny it and say he is "light". Well that's just my opinion. He is only human, not some infallible super anti-hero as some would like to believe.

 

What if........ The Emperor was Revan all along, and despite everything he's been thought to achieve turns out to be the true Sith heir. Or something new? Something worth thinking about. What if Revan has actually orchestrated this massive plot pitting one superpower against another much like Palpatine will 3K yrs later? Not entirely out of the question I think and would be a fitting twist and end to a iconic figure, while slipping the rug out from under all of us. Revan may never wanted to continue the useless strife of both Light and Dark, and may have always fashioned a more revolutionary approach to creating order. Sure this would upset a great many people, but it would demand the utmost respect for a character to have fooled so many deeply involved with is story. Just my thoughts.

 

I... actually really like this idea, it would be sort of a nice homage to the KOTOR plot twist but I doubt it will happen unforunately. I'm hoping they've got their best writers on this but they're probably all too busy with DA: Inquistion or something (which I'm excited for too). I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Please not another Mass Effect 3 ending *fingers crossed*.

 

[Deviss]

What if........ The Emperor was Revan all along, and despite everything he's been thought to achieve turns out to be the true Sith heir. Or something new? Something worth thinking about. What if Revan has actually orchestrated this massive plot pitting one superpower against another much like Palpatine will 3K yrs later? Not entirely out of the question I think and would be a fitting twist and end to a iconic figure, while slipping the rug out from under all of us. Revan may never wanted to continue the useless strife of both Light and Dark, and may have always fashioned a more revolutionary approach to creating order. Sure this would upset a great many people, but it would demand the utmost respect for a character to have fooled so many deeply involved with is story. Just my thoughts.

 

That makes no sense whatsoever if you know the whole story of Revan.

[Darkelefantos]

That makes no sense whatsoever if you know the whole story of Revan.

 

Or the Emperor, for that matter.

[Deviss]

Or the Emperor, for that matter.

 

Yeah.

[TheBackhandler]

That makes no sense whatsoever if you know the whole story of Revan.

 

What do you mean? Revan going back to fight the Sith could easily be a cover. He could have believed that the easiest way to defeat the empire was to take control of it secretly with the Emperor's voice and dupe them into destruction. They could easily merge both the Empror's and Revan's storyline if they wished; there's enough holes in time to manipulate what we think we all know. I don't believe this will happen, but it may. Revan may have always been out to take control of the galaxy and the events of Kotor were just a ruse to dethrone Malak. Maybe Revan was protecting his body in Maelstrom Prison from mortal danger while his puppets were waging his war. I think there are many cooler ways to spin it than rather a dupe Revan. Just my opinion.

[DarthBlaide]

I agree with everyone else. Revan is not the mastermind behind this all. Even after his memories are restored in the novel, his sole purpose is to stop the Emperor so Bastila and his son, his son's children, and the Republic as a whole would be saved. And he even knew he could not last in a battle of wills with the Emperor, but he would fight for as long as he could to make sure his family and the Republic was safe.

[Deviss]

What do you mean? Revan going back to fight the Sith could easily be a cover. He could have believed that the easiest way to defeat the empire was to take control of it secretly with the Emperor's voice and dupe them into destruction. They could easily merge both the Empror's and Revan's storyline if they wished; there's enough holes in time to manipulate what we think we all know. I don't believe this will happen, but it may. Revan may have always been out to take control of the galaxy and the events of Kotor were just a ruse to dethrone Malak. Maybe Revan was protecting his body in Maelstrom Prison from mortal danger while his puppets were waging his war. I think there are many cooler ways to spin it than rather a dupe Revan. Just my opinion.

 

Once again, if you take Revan novel and KotOR games into account, this theory makes NO SENSE whatsoever. Sure, it is possible but it would be the equivalent of extremely bad writing... beyond bad. So no.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Deviss

[Darth_Advent]

A little suspicious in that we've all seen Revan's face yet they choose to hide his features behind new robes and armor. Unless they're going for an anticlimax, I can imagine this Revan being something different from what he appears.

 

If not a possession of the Sith Emperor, then perhaps once again under his direct influence. We know from the Jedi Knight story:

 

 

That the Emperor's ultimate goal is to absorb the living Force from every being the civilized galaxy. He aims to achieve this using a ritual that involves mass death on the interstellar scale. The war between the Empire and the Republic is simply a means to that end; he cares nothing for his own Dark Side cult or nation.

 

 

Revan managing to destroy both factions would play into that insidious plan very well.

[GusVIII]

Not likely. If it was Revan then there wouldn't be a reason to hide his face. We've already seen what he looks like. Bioware is just trying surprise us with a "twist." Probably a woman.

 

Remember way back, during our early missions on Kaas, when we had to retrieve one of Revan's old, seemingly possessed, masks? One of the Revanite leaders likely decided to put the thing on and inherited Darth Revan's will. Back when he all corrupted by the Dark Side, out to conquer the Republic and destroy the Sith Empire and all that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMAflhgShIE

Probably dodged a bullet there.

 

That possessed cave might have had a role to play too.

 

[Darth_Wicked]

* snip *

 

I shall quote myself:

I posted this earlier already:

 

http://s28.postimg.org/z21q3zzt9/test.jpg

 

That's the mask that once belonged to Revan. They didn't get to keep it.

 

Who do you think got the mask to him?

 

The Revanites.

 

COMING NEXT:

 

"That's it. You've now shown proof that someone is using the mask, someone ELSE other than Revan."

Edited October 8, 2014 by Darth_Wicked