Beniboybling Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 And the Clones were said to number in the Trillions that nearly 1000x more. Point is we KNOW the droids had a massive numerical advantage and it was still fairly even speaking volumes to the better equipment and adaptibility and creativity of the Clones. That I would personally say was rivaled by the later Imperial Troops and Rebels.I would have to strongly disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Tank =/= Glancing Blow. Eh, glancing blow maybe sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I would have to strongly disagree. Nah Tune's right, the Empire's Troops aren't that far off from the Clone Troops. The Clones have a marginal edge in training, but that's it. Equipment wise, the Imperial Troops are even or a little greater than the Clones. The Rebels are last though comparing to both. Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Nah Tune's right, the Empire's Troops aren't that far off from the Clone Troops. The Clones have a marginal edge in training, but that's it. Equipment wise, the Imperial Troops are even or a little greater than the Clones. The Rebels are last though comparing to both. Rebels may be last, but its by no means a large margin. I would say Equipment Wise its Empire Clones Rebels Training wise Clones Empire Rebels but its all close enough that they can compete fairly evenly with one another. After all the Rebels did beat the empire at the end of the day. And their equipment was a lot of the same stuff the Clones used it was just they had less of it. Edited October 14, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Nah Tune's right, the Empire's Troops aren't that far off from the Clone Troops. The Clones have a marginal edge in training, but that's it. Equipment wise, the Imperial Troops are even or a little greater than the Clones. The Rebels are last though comparing to both.Marginal edge? Is this not the same person who argued that not even the supremely rigorous training of the Sith Empire was not enough to match the capabilities of these clones? Training gives the Clones every edge, that and the fact that they are in peak physical condition. Need I bring up a quote from Commander Cody himself stating that the new Imperial recruits simply did not compare to their clone brethren? Because they did not. Lets not even get in to their performance in Rebels. And I'm not saying this just because the Alliance has Stormtroopers, I fully accept that the 501st, who remained mostly clones, are just as good if not better than any one Clone regiment. The same cannot be said for the rest of the army. EDIT: The Empire sacrificed quality for quantity, that is at least what I have inferred. Edited October 14, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Rebels may be last, but its by no means a large margin. I would say Equipment Wise its Empire Clones Rebels Training wise Clones Empire Rebels but its all close enough that they can compete fairly evenly with one another. After all the Rebels did beat the empire at the end of the day. Seems about right, although the Rebels also lost a lot and really just won due to Palps and Ewoks coming out of the woodwork...and a hijjacked AT-ST. But I digress, were going off topic here lol. Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) Marginal edge? Is this not the same person who argued that not even the supremely rigorous training of the Sith Empire was not enough to match the capabilities of these clones? Training gives the Clones every edge, that and the fact that they are in peak physical condition. Need I bring up a quote from Commander Cody himself stating that the new Imperial recruits simply did not compare to their clone brethren? Because they did not. Lets not even get in to their performance in Rebels. And I'm not saying this just because the Alliance has Stormtroopers, I fully accept that the 501st, who remained mostly clones, are just as good if not better than any one Clone regiment. The same cannot be said for the rest of the army. Yes a marginal edge, don't forget the Empire gained a ton of essteamed military academies with a long line of history. Training doesn't give the Clones every edge, because Stormtroopers should also be in peak physical condition considering they go through 3 years of training, 2 of which are on Carida on a high gravity world, with different types of terrain and their training was legendary for being brutal. You then have Imperial Army Troopers go through 1 year of grueling training, on a number of different worlds, drop missions being the norm for training, complex assault training was the norm and then the best of those Troopers were chosen to become Stormtroopers. And Cody is being biased...hardly surprising. He just can't let go of the Clones not being around. 501st were not always Clones, they soon as time went on picked from the best Stormtroopers to fill in the ranks, they were not all Clones over time. Anyway were trailing off topic here. Edited October 14, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Yes a marginal edge, don't forget the Empire gained a ton of essteamed military academies with a long line of history. Training doesn't give the Clones every edge, because Stormtroopers should also be in peak physical condition considering they go through 3 years of training, 2 of which are on Carida on a high gravity world, with different types of terrain and their training was legendary for being brutal. And Cody is being biased...hardly surprising. He just can't let go of the Clones not being around. 501st were not always Clones, they soon as time went on picked from the very best Stormtroopers to fill in the ranks, they were not all Clones over time.Well I personally believe their actions speak for themselves, I'll agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this argument. Regardless, if it pertains to the ground battle, save it until we get there, OK? If anyone else has anything they want to say about the space battle, feel free while we wait for Karadron's final argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this argument. Regardless, if it pertains to the ground battle, save it until we get there, OK? If anyone else has anything they want to say about the space battle, feel free while we wait for Karadron's final argument. Okday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm not sure I understand the relevance of this argument. Regardless, if it pertains to the ground battle, save it until we get there, OK? If anyone else has anything they want to say about the space battle, feel free while we wait for Karadron's final argument. I thought this had to do with the effectiveness of Boarding parties as well as tactical difference between the droid pilots and commanders of the PH versus the same of the GA. I believe there was even a point when Garm bel Ran into droid opponents in one novel and was able to identify them by their flying habits and tricked them into letting him blow up like half their armada with 1 ship or something crazy like that. I dont remember, just might be relevant do to the competition here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I thought this had to do with the effectiveness of Boarding parties as well as tactical difference between the droid pilots and commanders of the PH versus the same of the GA. I believe there was even a point when Garm bel Ran into droid opponents in one novel and was able to identify them by their flying habits and tricked them into letting him blow up like half their armada with 1 ship or something crazy like that. I dont remember, just might be relevant do to the competition here. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Interesting. Looking back on it, it might have been Wedge and Garm, I really dont remember I read something like that about something like that somewhere, and I dont remember where to lazy to look it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I still think there are multiple things that we have yet to go over yet, but if you believe it is time for final points... Who am I to argue with an Arbiter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I still think there are multiple things that we have yet to go over yet, but if you believe it is time for final points... Who am I to argue with an Arbiter? No one seems to have picked up on them, but I guess we can revisit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Are there specific things for either side that are un-countered, need more exploration, or overall should be discussed over more? A few things I think should be discussed more: 1. Pellaeon has faced all of these ship classes before. 2. Recusants habit of crashing. 3. Garm using AckBar slash. 4. How does the PH counter the Phantoms? 5. How devastating are the bombs Jaina has on her star fighter? *If they are the ones I think they are...* 6. Counter Intelligence? 7. Organic vs Droid pilots. 8. Recusant's habit of tunnel visioning. 9. Republic tactic of swapping ships for maximum shield up times. 10. Can Buzz droids differentiate between friend and foe? I am sure there are others, but these ones are the ones that seem the least explored so far. Discuss! OK, if anyone wants to discuss these points, I encourage it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) I feel that these four really compound with eachother heavily. Since Pellaeon has faced these exact class of vessels before, he likely knows about #2 and #8 due to his service in the Clone Wars. Due to how he is also seen on many occasions being quite willing to work with and share tactics with other tacticians, I find it very likely he would give Garm a good run down, which would lead to Garm using the Ackbar Slash. Which would prove quite a bit more lethal against these CIS vessels than it does against Star Destroyers. 1. Pellaeon has faced all of these ship classes before. 2. Recusants habit of crashing. 3. Garm using AckBar slash. 8. Recusant's habit of tunnel visioning. These four points could compound into a devastating blow to the PH fleet due to friendly fire, inaccurate steering of the Recusants, and their main weapons being unable to be brought to bear. At such range in this type of match up, the GA fleet would massacre the PH fleet, leaving the Malevolence by it self with the fighter compliment to likely face down the majority of the GA fleet, that due to each vessels robustness, and the Chimera evading most fire due to appearing later, is quite likely. Thoughts? Counter Points? Edited October 14, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) For #5, according to Wookieepedia a pair Shadow Bombs can rip through Vong corvette vessels. So I'm assuming that one would do severe damage to most ships, especially against a Munificent-class. Edit: For #10, I'm assuming they can. I'd have to look it up, though. Edited October 14, 2014 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 For #5, according to Wookieepedia a pair Shadow Bombs can rip through Vong corvette vessels. So I'm assuming that one would do severe damage to most ships, especially against a Munificent-class. By chance does she have 7 of those puppies? Hey! I can dream, can't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 By chance does she have 7 of those puppies? Hey! I can dream, can't I? How many torpedoes can a StealthX carry? However many that is will be how many she has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) How many torpedoes can a StealthX carry? However many that is will be how many she has. T-65XJ3 X-wing starfighter (base x-wing the Stealthx is a variant of) Proton torpedo launchers (3)[1] 4 heavy proton torpedoes[1] or shadow bombs each (standard load) So... potentially 12?! _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: Side Note: Scratch that, 8. Stealthx replaced 1 of the 3 launchers for very advanced sensor equipment. Edited October 14, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 T-65XJ3 X-wing starfighter (base x-wing the Stealthx is a variant of) Proton torpedo launchers (3)[1] 4 heavy proton torpedoes[1] or shadow bombs each (standard load) So... potentially 12?! _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: The StealthX, according to Wookieepedia at least, has 2 launchers. So, maybe 8 then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 (edited) The StealthX, according to Wookieepedia at least, has 2 launchers. So, maybe 8 then? *Waits for the Munificient fireworks* Then again... Due to the skeletal structure of the Rescuants... Edited October 14, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 *Waits for the Munificient fireworks* Then again... Due to the skeletal structure of the Rescuants... Or the exposed bridge of the Malevolence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Or the exposed bridge of the Malevolence. A lone A wing can take out that bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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