idnewton Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 from the video, i noticed that heroic moment has been changed, you no longer get the current attacks, it just ends the cooldown of some attacks. I think that this a Big Nerf. Are you sure? I hope this isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belhawk Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Are you sure? I hope this isn't the case. yes, look at dulfy site, disciples calculator, abilities, class http://dulfy.net/2014/10/13/swtor-disciplines-calculator-swtor_miner/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) yes, look at dulfy site, disciples calculator, abilities, class http://dulfy.net/2014/10/13/swtor-disciplines-calculator-swtor_miner/ Because it never had any attack. All offensive Heroic Moment abilities have to be unlocked and they are under Legacy in Ability list. To use one of those you need Heroic Moment to be active, though. And looks like at least BH Heroic Moment ability doesn't change. http://www.torhead.com/ability/G0BmFh/heroic-moment-on-the-trail Edited November 9, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) yes, look at dulfy site, disciples calculator, abilities, class http://dulfy.net/2014/10/13/swtor-disciplines-calculator-swtor_miner/ Heroic Moment abilities are in the Legacy abilities section which isn't listed on the site, probably because nothing changed. Alright so, I'v been a subscriber since early access started in 2010. Also.... are you sure about that? Edited November 9, 2014 by idnewton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch_Spikehead Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Combat Ridiculousness was the end of SWG... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Does this change, honestly, just take every meaning out of traits and skills and put all the onus on gear? I don't like raiding, I don't have the patience for it, I don't have the time for it, and it has just never been as fun or as intimate as dungeons or the occasional PvP match. Gear has ALWAYS been as important as skill. You can be the most skilled played in the world, but if you try to do a Nightmare Mode with Rakata gear and the boss so much as looks at you, you'll die in 10 secs. Maybe, if you're skilled enough you might survive a couple of seconds more. But who cares? The point is your skill as a player or the skills you choose from the skill trees, would make no difference. I can't for the life of me understand why it just started bothering you that you need gear. From what I'v read and seen of these changes, people have the same basic universal skills with little, to no, variation. So now I literally can't PvP any of my higher tier characters anymore because I don't have the requisite gear? Again... I don't understand you. Why were you NOT PVPing in PVP gear already? No one is saying you should have ranked gear for normal wzs. Obroan was enough and it was easy enough to get it even as a casual player. You'll still get bolstered if you enter in PVE gear, so that'll stay the same. Frankly, I'm trying to figure out what you mean but none of it seems to make sense. If you are asking if there will be prerequisites to enter a PVP match, no there won't be. If you are asking if you'll get destroyed if you enter a PVP match in PVE gear, the answer is just as much as you will today. People always had the same basic skills with little to no variation, because the vast majority of the player base went for the cookie cutter builds. They're just killing the hybrids and that has nothing to do with gear. It becomes a matter of who has the shiniest armor and the best lightsaber mods, not who is the better player. And... isn't the entire point of player vs player content to actually show who the best player is? Not that I disagree with your last sentence but, again, why is that surprising you? It's always been like that. Bolster made things a bit better in PVP for players in PVE gear (and by that I mean they no longer get destroyed in 2 CDs like before) but what I'm still confused about is why you'd connect disciplines to a worse PVP experience and gear grind when that's always been the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Not that I disagree with your last sentence but, again, why is that surprising you? It's always been like that. Bolster made things a bit better in PVP for players in PVE gear (and by that I mean they no longer get destroyed in 2 CDs like before) but what I'm still confused about is why you'd connect disciplines to a worse PVP experience and gear grind when that's always been the caseIs it all as it should be? Shouldn't there be an avenue for crafted armor and gear to gain equivalence? Wouldn't it be better were players empowered to enter the most dangerous and challenging environments for the first time appropriately geared and at the same time improve the high end crafting game? You look at the complaints and half of them, I estimate, are about improperly geared players. Shouldn't there be an alternative to being a burden to groupmates until they have a decent full set? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Is it all as it should be? Shouldn't there be an avenue for crafted armor and gear to gain equivalence? Wouldn't it be better were players empowered to enter the most dangerous and challenging environments for the first time appropriately geared and at the same time improve the high end crafting game? You look at the complaints and half of them, I estimate, are about improperly geared players. Shouldn't there be an alternative to being a burden to groupmates until they have a decent full set? That's a completely different subject. It has been the way it is since launch. The poster I quoted seems to imply that disciplines will somehow cause what's already the case. That's what I don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
touchesthelight Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I can see how they think this might balance things out, but it won't. It will alienate their fanbase. They will lose players and Subs over this. Instead of creating this "Discipline" system, why not fix the existing skill trees to make people WANT to do a full tree. I mean, some of the abilities are stupid! Sure, I guess they're great for PvP, but for those of us who are on the RP and PvE servers, this will seem more like punishment. I play on Harbringer. I stick to PvE. I like playing through the story, with other players, etc. But with this change, when I play something like say a Jedi Sentinel, my usual hybrid spec will go away. I use Ataru form. Once I get it unlocked, I move on to another tree. The abilities further up that tree are useless to me. And now, I won't have a choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Instead of creating this "Discipline" system, why not fix the existing skill trees to make people WANT to do a full tree. Because current system works exactly like that. All the good stuff is way up in skill trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglitter Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 (edited) Mmm.... Just thought of something funny... With the deletion of trees for the cookie cutter approach of disciplines where there is no customization to speak off... Welcome to the "Clone Wars" Sue Ps: Maybe the developers could give themselves more breaks and reduce the number of costumes available, so all the classes look the same... Edited November 14, 2014 by Starglitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Because current system works exactly like that. All the good stuff is way up in skill trees. Eh... depends on the AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TezMoney Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Mmm.... Just thought of something funny... With the deletion of trees for the cookie cutter approach of disciplines where there is no customization to speak off... Welcome to the "Clone Wars" Sue Ps: Maybe the developers could give themselves more breaks and reduce the number of costumes available, so all the classes look the same... Actually with this new system you'll be far less likely to know what your opponent is packing than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) Eh... depends on the AC. Tell more, please. What is this mysterious AC that allows you to go 20/10/20 and have best build? Yes, I know about old DoTSmash. Edited November 15, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Because current system works exactly like that. All the good stuff is way up in skill trees. Eh... depends on the AC. Tell more, please. What is this mysterious AC that allows you to go 20/10/20 and have best build? Moving the goalposts. Your objection to my response is based on different criteria than your original statement. You didn't say anything about these "best builds", just that all the "good" stuff was way up the trees. There are ACs where (IMO), there's just nothing in the upper tiers that's at compelling enough to bother with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) There are ACs where (IMO), there's just nothing in the upper tiers that's at compelling enough to bother with. That explains: - all Shadow "tanks" (Combat Technique + Clairvoyant Strike) - all Assassin "tanks" with Death Field Edited November 15, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artemia Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 It looks like it will not be possible to play hybrids of a class anymore. I like to play a 55 sorceress with energy free Static Barrier for myself and warzone teammates, and then have a powerful offensive build with the rest of my skill points so I can bring enemy players down and win a one on one fight. It looks like I will have to be a healing or DPS sorceress, and then I'll have some choices within whichever discipline I choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistafat Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I hate you, way to ruin a perfectly good game just like WoW did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 You know, there's an awful lot of QQ going on here considering no one's actually experienced the disciplines system personally. It's coming in nine days, surely you can wait until then to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamefulweevil Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You know, there's an awful lot of QQ going on here considering no one's actually experienced the disciplines system personally. It's coming in nine days, surely you can wait until then to judge. sure we can wait to judge, but why change a system that everyone seems to like, If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadOrb Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) sure we can wait to judge, but why change a system that everyone seems to like, If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Well they actually broke it in 2.0 , keep up with the times , we are too over powered and adding 5 more levels would of been a huge task to balance. So they fixed it. Cheers, BadOrb. Edited November 24, 2014 by BadOrb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamefulweevil Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Well they actually broke it in 2.0 , keep up with the times , we are too over powered and adding 5 more levels would of been a huge task to balance. So they fixed it. Cheers, BadOrb. They can fix the power without coping WOW, if i wanted to play with WOW's interface i would play WOW. keep the skill trees and fix the over powered issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TezMoney Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 They can fix the power without coping WOW, if i wanted to play with WOW's interface i would play WOW. keep the skill trees and fix the over powered issue What if skill trees is the root of the issue though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) They can fix the power without coping WOW, if i wanted to play with WOW's interface i would play WOW. keep the skill trees and fix the over powered issue "Don't nerf my dps, buff enemies instead."? Sorry to say this but that's not how it works. Edited November 25, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnewton Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 sure we can wait to judge, but why change a system that everyone seems to like, If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Level 55s as they are work pretty well, as far as balancing goes vs endgame content. Technically speaking, increasing the level cap to 60 is 'fixing something that is not broken' as well. There are many reasons that "If it isn't broken, don't fix it" is a flawed way of thinking. In this case, while the skill tree system works fine right now, there are several reasons it needed to be dropped. The hybrids became a lot worse in 2.0 when another tier was added to the skill trees, because it gave players more points to spend on the tiers already in existence. Adding yet another tier to the skill trees would exponentially increase the possibility and viability of hybrids. Additionally, the skill tree system prevents the devs from giving powerful passives (and actives) to specs at low levels because of the ability to hybrid. Finally, the Disciplines system will make respecs much easier, and while leveling your character will automatically earn the passives and actives granted by the spec. Contrary to what you might expect, the Disciplines system is the type of change which looks bad on paper, but actually works well when applied. While the skill trees and the options therein were lost, there wasn't much variation anyways (hybrids excluded). Every player worth their salt got all of the necessary rotational passives and actives, the kind in the Disciplines spec progression. Most of the variation in specs was due to the supplemental passives, the kind now classified as Utilities. While it may look like player choice was nerfed to dust, the reality is that the new system will not harm players, but rather provide them with more efficient respecs, fun low-level gameplay, and will allow the devs to expand upon the game's level cap without fear of overpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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