Bioware: Is Crafting to Win™ intended?

[JINeziz]

Sure a large guild will still have a crafting advantage but, if you remove viability of crafting, guild size become the one and only determinant of success in conquests. But I'm starting to think that's what the OP wants, since from what I have seen, his guild is the largest on his server.

 

And don't give me the crafting is sustainable crap either. My guild is comprised predominantly of crafters, and we have been having to take down weeks, and once our mats stockpile is entirely gone will likely have to take back-to-back down weeks, simply because the amount of time required to acquire mats (or acquire credits to buy mats with) is significantly more than the time it takes to burn the mats. This is especially true given that War Supplies have no market value.

 

Wrong. Incorrect. Faulty. Flawed. Error. Error. Error. As has bn said b4, its about how ACTIVE a guilds members r and how much time they hv to play. Not to mention strategizing, skills, resources..etc.. Take PVP for example: on planets where WINS count for me than simply participation, u get twice as many points. Meaning a more skilled group of players could equal or defeat a another less-skilled/organized group that is TWICE their size. At least on the conquest objective alone.

 

As far as sustainability, sounds like your crafters need to devise a way to earn more creds while they craft since its one of he objectives largest advantages. Buy mats, earning creds, and knowing when to keep all of your toons gather/crafting is key. Its sustainable for those who know what theyre doin and for guilds who truly work as a unit to pool resources.

[branmakmuffin]

What annoys me is the fact that the OP is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to change conquest to where his guild can win without effort, as he was apparently upset by how much effort it took to beat a crafting guild.

I think that's what all "Change this about conquests!" threads are. "Make it easier for the way I play the game."

[Churb]

What annoys me is the fact that the OP is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to change conquest to where his guild can win without effort, as he was apparently upset by how much effort it took to beat a crafting guild.

 

what annoys me is baseless unsubstantiated claims such as this

[Grayseven]

ahahaha, good now how about we think in practical terms.

 

Every single method of gaining conquest points gives advantage to the large guilds. Crafting gives the least advantage.

 

Again, wrong. 100 toons crafting will outperform 100 toons running fps, running ops, doing PvP combined. Fact, not supposition.

 

On my server at least, crafting has allowed for several upsets with guilds beating out guilds that hugely outnumber them, if crafting just advantages large guilds then how could those upsets of happened? hmm? What you are claiming something that has not been backed up in the actual game.

 

Then those guilds weren't trying to stay on top thru crafting. It's as simple as that. Had those larger guilds actually been crafting, there would have been no "upsets".

 

 

The "best spots" only work if nobody else is also going for those "best spots"

 

Wrong. The best spots are instanced.

 

I have 7 crafting 55's and 5 gathering/misson 55's. If I just craft on my crafters and run FPs/OPs and gathering missions on my gatherer's I get all 14 toons to the personal goal easily. Because we as a guild have decided to go for a top 10 every week instead of competing with the likes of WOOK and Triumph I don't need to craft beyond what is needed to reach my personal goal most weeks but I always know that crafting is there if it looks like we are going to get knocked out of the top 10 (unneeded as of yet, by the way).

 

If I have time, I get my crafters extra points thru FPs and OPs, but it isn't needed even on the weeks that there is no crafting bonus.

[Domatron]

What annoys me is the fact that the OP is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to change conquest to where his guild can win without effort, as he was apparently upset by how much effort it took to beat a crafting guild.

 

What annoys me is 13 pages later you still don't get the point.

 

Crafting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than any other activity, in both rewards and time spent. Pve and PvP have already both seen nerfs meanwhile the elephant in the room remains ignored.

[Ruskaeth]

Wow at those points. Kudos!

 

Extreme crafting like these two guilds have done consumes a lot of time and credits. It's not "easy mode" as most ignorant players would think. Having those credits is not given, most people have earned them and not bought. I am also sure BioWare is happy if Conquests drive people to spend CCs to acquire more credits for mats. Either way, spending massive amount of credits to win a conquest is literally throwing those credits out of the window. Now, I see people complain when they do not have what it takes. In fact, this battle between two insane guilds is the best thing I have seen in this game for over a year.

 

Most of the crafters being able to deliver high points do both: they send their crew members out and also buy mats. I do not even consider myself a crafter and I send 5 x 16 guys out a "few times" a day and costs me around 1.5m usually and sometimes even 2m-3m credits. I have never used CCs to acquire credits. Personally, I view my crafting as big a sacrifice as 10 members of zerg doing their Heroic dailies. Completely equal in every way. It's ridiculous many seem to view it as "easy" conquest points when it's absolutely not. I started crafting when conquests landed and I do it because I want our guild to win against guilds who can bring 15-20 more people online every day than us. By sacrificing time and in-game wealth (and doing the other conquest objectives on the side also) we can still win.

 

Now, what these two amazing guilds have done, I tip my hat to you! Just amazing! Standing ovation from me. Much sacrifice.

 

Enough said: If everything is limited to X amount per Legacy, Bioware is effectively killing conquests because only amount of unique participating accounts would matter.

[branmakmuffin]

What annoys me is 13 pages later you still don't get the point.

 

Crafting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than any other activity, in both rewards and time spent. Pve and PvP have already both seen nerfs meanwhile the elephant in the room remains ignored.

So what's the beef? You apparently know the "secret" to the conquest system. So take advantage of it.

[ParagonAX]

What annoys me is the fact that the OP is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to change conquest to where his guild can win without effort, as he was apparently upset by how much effort it took to beat a crafting guild.

 

I think that's what all "Change this about conquests!" threads are. "Make it easier for the way I play the game."

 

Not sure if logic works in the case of someone like yourself, but I will try.

 

This isn't about how easy or difficult it's to win. As I have stated countless times, I wish BW would stick to the weekly "themes" they implement. Logically speaking, the "theme" for that week should grant the highest conquest points based on time/effort spent.

 

We are happy to win via WZs on WZ weeks. We are happy to win via FPs on FP weeks. We are happy to win via crafting for crafting weeks.

 

Is this so hard to comprehend?

 

The problem, which seems to elude you, is that fact that currently crafting >>>>>>> everything else, no matter what week, planet, or theme.

Edited September 29, 2014 by ParagonAX

[Domatron]

So what's the beef? You apparently know the "secret" to the conquest system. So take advantage of it.

 

What's the point of having themed weeks if every week is effectively crafting week?

[Brewski]

If it makes you feel better to think so, fine with me.

 

If it hadn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Well, you might, but most of us wouldn't bother to post if it didn't make a difference.

 

We've seen updates to both PvP and PvE objectives in the conquest system already. It's hardly unreasonable to assume crafting objectives could be modified based on feedback and performance as well.

 

Or be a pessimist. Whatever works best for you.

[TheHarvester]

So what's the beef? You apparently know the "secret" to the conquest system. So take advantage of it.

 

The "beef" is that while conquest was advertised to be this huge deal where guilds could play to their strengths in their game playstyle, it instead boils down to players rich in mats and creds crafting their way to the top of the leaderboard, with the underlying "theme" of each week being nothing more than an afterthought. That is bad for the longevity of the game and serves to disillusion guilds with players that simply don't have the resources to compete like this.

[branmakmuffin]

The problem, which seems to elude you, is that fact that currently crafting >>>>>>> everything else, no matter what week, planet, or theme.

And what seems to elude you is "So what?" If you know what you need to do and you want to "win," do it. If you're not willing to do what you know needs to be done, you're obviously not that interested in "winning."

 

The "beef" is that while conquest was advertised to be this huge deal where guilds could play to their strengths in their game playstyle, it instead boils down to players rich in mats and creds crafting their way to the top of the leaderboard, with the underlying "theme" of each week being nothing more than an afterthought. That is bad for the longevity of the game and serves to disillusion guilds with players that simply don't have the resources to compete like this.

If it truly is bad for the longevity of the game and the game dies because of it, you can say 'I told you so!"

Edited September 29, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[JINeziz]

Not sure if logic works in the case of someone like yourself, but I will try.

 

This isn't about how easy or difficult it's to win. As I have stated countless times, I wish BW would stick to the weekly "themes" they implement. Logically speaking, the "theme" for that week should grant the highest conquest points based on time/effort spent.

 

We are happy to win via WZs on WZ weeks. We are happy to win via FPs on FP weeks. We are happy to win via crafting for crafting weeks.

 

Is this so hard to comprehend?

 

The problem, which seems to elude you, is that fact that currently crafting >>>>>>> everything else, no matter what week, planet, or theme.

 

THIS^. Read it slooooooowwwww. And then do that 6 more times.

[TheHarvester]

And what seems to elude you is "So what?" If you know what you need to do and you want to "win," do it. If you're not willing to do what you know needs to be done, you're obviously not that interested in "winning."

 

 

If it truly is bad for the longevity of the game and the game dies because of it, you can say 'I told you so!"

 

I can't tell if you're just dense and can't comprehend the pages full of posts answering your "so what?" question, or if you're trolling. Either way, you're repeating yourself with your fingers in your ears, refusing to try and understand WHY the high point gain from crafting is a problem. Maybe saying "i told you so" gets you off, but I'd rather see this game thrive.

Edited September 29, 2014 by TheHarvester

[JINeziz]

And what seems to elude you is "So what?" If you know what you need to do and you want to "win," do it. If you're not willing to do what you know needs to be done, you're obviously not that interested in "winning."

 

 

If it truly is bad for the longevity of the game and the game dies because of it, you can say 'I told you so!"

 

Lol^. Completely misses the point. Goal is to make the game better, more fun. If your not interested in that, then stop playing and posting.

 

And if Triumph isnt interested in winning, how do you explain how theyve dominated every planet they invade? You can't. And I'm telling you so.

 

Balance Crafting. Thats All. The smarter, more organized, and skilled guilds r gonna win regardless.

[Domatron]

And what seems to elude you is "So what?" If you know what you need to do and you want to "win," do it. If you're not willing to do what you know needs to be done, you're obviously not that interested in "winning."

 

 

If it truly is bad for the longevity of the game and the game dies because of it, you can say 'I told you so!"

 

Look at the points obviously he's willing to do what needs to be done. Now you're just arguing to argue.

 

Conquest is a fun system and basing different weeks around different activities is a great idea to get players out of their comfort zone and enjoy aspects of the game they may not have otherwise. The themes should carry more weight, one activity shouldn't so thoroughly dominate.

[Brewski]

What annoys me is the fact that the OP is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to change conquest to where his guild can win without effort, as he was apparently upset by how much effort it took to beat a crafting guild.

 

Just to turn this around:

 

What annoys me is your thinly veiled attempt to preserve your broken method to win a conquest without effort through crafting.

 

See what I did there?

 

This isn't a matter of getting rid of one method, it's a matter of balancing them.

 

Should crafting be a viable way to win a conquest? Yes. Especially on crafting themed conquest weeks.

 

Should crafting be the most efficient means to attain conquest points every week? No. Especially not on non-crafting themed weeks.

 

I am a crafter, and love having crafting matter for conquests. No one is trying to take your candy, just control your consumption so it's not the only method for winning.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Brewski

[JINeziz]

Are you high? People have spent entire fortunes on conquest crafting. Crafting costs the most in terms of either credit output or sheer amount of time spent farming nodes. (which you will likely want to shoot yourself if you do the latter for any serious length of time.)

Yet it costs nothing at all to spam flashpoints or to spam warzones. Nothing at all.

 

SKILL. Do You know what that iz? Its something ya need to dominate warzones and get victories. When WINNING a warzone gvs more points that just being in one, thats about organization, skill, strategy. I'm guessing your terrible at them tho. Doing fps efficiently to maximize points takes the same. To do them fast, to get a balanced group of guildies, etc.. Even crafting has an art to it.

 

Thing is: You cant lose an FP. only fail to complete it. Ya cant fail at crafting...only run out of mats/creds. PVP conquest objectives take real skill and know to beat real people. Having a high number of guild members wont make up for that.

[JINeziz]

What annoys me is the fact that the OP is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to change conquest to where his guild can win without effort, as he was apparently upset by how much effort it took to beat a crafting guild.

 

Wook isnt a crafting guild u moron. They do EVERYTHING. Like Triumph. Theyre a smart guild who also, like many top guils, has had to win multiple planets that didnt play to their strengths.

 

You should hv seen TRIUMPH, when they invaded a planet thats main bonuses were operations. Tough times to win. but they did anyway. Its not about a complaint, its about having more fun while playing in pvp or pve.

[branmakmuffin]

Just to turn this around:

 

What annoys me is your thinly veiled attempt to preserve your broken method to win a conquest without effort through crafting.

Oh, yeah, because the other things to do in game for conquests require so much effort.

 

 

Methinks some people lose sight of the fact that this is just a computer game.

[Ruskaeth]

Oh, yeah, because the other things to do in game for conquests require so much effort.

Great Point. As a side product Conquest crafting creates a lot of credits for those who wish to take them. Economies are booming. Trading seems better in general. Less stagnant economy on TRE at least.

[branmakmuffin]

Great Point. As a side product Conquest crafting creates a lot of credits for those who wish to take them. Economies are booming. Trading seems better in general. Less stagnant economy on TRE at least.

I think the same is true on BC. Much more robust market for materials, especially stuff no one used to care about, i.e., luxury fabrics and research materials.

[Silko]

What was the GTN like on your server? With two guilds going at it like that, did the war supplies mats shoot up in price?

 

You have no idea. That epic battle totally ****ed the mat economy on Shadowlands. Another consequence that people tried to post about in the forums before conquest went live. This whole patch has ****ed the economy of several servers. Between the cash sinks of the actual game, Strongholds, and now the epic crafting wars, I'm shocked people are flat broke yet

Edited September 29, 2014 by Silko

[Brewski]

Oh, yeah, because the other things to do in game for conquests require so much effort.

 

 

Methinks some people lose sight of the fact that this is just a computer game.

 

Methinks you need to actually read and quote the rest of the post.

 

I was pointing out the ridiculousness of generalizing like this. Thank you for illustrating my point so well.

[Arkerus]

Oh, yeah, because the other things to do in game for conquests require so much effort.

 

 

Methinks some people lose sight of the fact that this is just a computer game.

 

SWTOR is srs. Srs bizness. Crafting must be nerfed so whatever I do is more effective. I don't sleep at night.

 

I SWTOR