Domatron Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 actually someone who crafts as much as possible will always lose to someone who crafts as much as possible and also does pvp on the side for instance. so yeah no one is going to win by just doing crafting like he said. Unless I have one more crafting alt than you, then all your active play means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Seeing as how the word explored was used twice, I suspect he made that post from a mobile phone or tablet and autocorrect took a little creative license. that would do it. no biggie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicallypuzzled Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Unless I have one more crafting alt than you, then all your active play means nothing. which frankly is working as intended so i don't see your point. besides which each individual player or alt should be treated as it's own thing. and there is a max to how many alts you can have at any rate so it really isn't possible to have one more crafting alt unless the person crafting as much as possible and pvping at the same time lets you have one more crafting alt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 no it isn't because that shows that small guilds can indeed get into the top ten all it takes is will. frankly you get nothing important by winning so i really don't care if it isn't possible to win currently. as long as everyone no matter what size guild they have can potentially get in the top ten with the proper planning, dedication, and effort than that is really balanced. you get the title....that is the objective no title for number 2,3,4,5..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicallypuzzled Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) do you mean exploited? not the same thing...there was no exploit because there was no bug. crafting needs to be balanced more in line with other endeavors within conquest. no judging from his post he means exactly what he said he meant . the system isn't being exploited he doesn't mean to say it is being exploited. what he does mean to say is that the op only thinks it is being exploited because he's tired of the system. Edited September 30, 2014 by magicallypuzzled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domatron Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 which frankly is working as intended so i don't see your point. besides which each individual player or alt should be treated as it's own thing. and there is a max to how many alts you can have at any rate so it really isn't possible to have one more crafting alt unless the person crafting as much as possible and pvping at the same time lets you have one more crafting alt. So you believe offline play should reward more than online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Since Triumph has completely burned themselves out on crafting then they should reap what they have sown. This thread is nothing but petty selfishness. Every serious conquest guild has known how effective crafting is since day one, and I doubt Triumph is a exception. Yet amusingly they chose not to say anything about it until after they burned themselves out on it. The only thing I see here is a guild that no longer has resources or rather the will to get the resources to win at conquest yet wants to continue to win every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParagonAX Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) actually someone who crafts as much as possible will always lose to someone who crafts as much as possible and also does pvp on the side for instance. so yeah no one is going to win by just doing crafting like he said. While this is true, you are again missing the whole point of the discussion. The discussion isn't about crafting + activity > crafting (which is fairly obvious). The discussion is about crafting >>>>>>>>>> any other activity. Get it? Edited September 30, 2014 by ParagonAX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicallypuzzled Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 you get the title....that is the objective no title for number 2,3,4,5.....are you intending to say guilds shouldn't have the ability to make up for their numbers in order to get into the top ten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 While this is true, you are again missing the whole point of the discussion. The discussion isn't about crafting + activity > crafting (which is fairly obvious). The discussion is about crafting >>>>>>>>>> any other activity. Get it? Cost of crafting >>>>>>>>> any other activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicallypuzzled Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 So you believe offline play should reward more than online i really don't care if it does and see no reason to either what does it matter? especially since you set up the offline play while online so technically it;'s online play whose effect is delayed significantly and can take effect while offline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParagonAX Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Cost of crafting >>>>>>>>> any other activity. Untrue. Cost of crafting = mats and credits. Cost of any other activity = time. Crafting is the only activity which can be performed without any time investment, save for a few mins to refresh crafters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParagonAX Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 are you intending to say guilds shouldn't have the ability to make up for their numbers in order to get into the top ten? Untrue. Smaller guilds should absolutely be able to compete. Looks like we are going in circles again. So I will keep quoting myself every couple of pages to refresh the memories of those who can't / refuse to read. In case you missed all 25+ pages of comments, let me break it down for you: BW intended there to be different ways to earn conquest points - FACTBW gave us different themes each week that gives boosts to different kinds of activities (FP, WZ, crafting, Operations) - FACTCrafting provides completely out of wack conquest points compared to any other activity - see OP for details - 9k points per toon per day for FP, vs. 140k points per toon per day for crafting - mind you, this is during a FP themed conquest week called Flashpoint Havoc - FACTAs a result, it does not matter what theme, planet, week, bonus there is, no other conquest activity matters because crafting reigns supreme. Hope this summarizes what the issue is. If you still don't see it, I really can't help you. As I have stated repeatedly, these are two separate issues. 1. Fix crafting to be in-line (not over-nerfed) with other conquest activities, with distinct advantages given to distinct activities in different themed weeks. 2. Implement a system to make smaller guilds able to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Untrue. Cost of crafting = mats and credits. Cost of any other activity = time. Crafting is the only activity which can be performed without any time investment, save for a few mins to refresh crafters. And the time needed to earn credits. And the time needed for the missions. And the time needed to level crafters. Edit: And the time harvesting mats in the field. Edited September 30, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 And the time needed to earn credits. And the time needed for the missions. And the time needed to level crafters. Edit: And the time harvesting mats in the field. So you can earn your credits by competing in other Conquest objectives. You can have 5 things being crafted at the same time by 5 different companions while you get more credits/resources for the next set. The game has been out for like 3 years, who needs to level crafters still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicallypuzzled Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Untrue. Smaller guilds should absolutely be able to compete. Looks like we are going in circles again. So I will keep quoting myself every couple of pages to refresh the memories of those who can't / refuse to read. crafting is currently the only way they can make up their numbers that means crafting is good as is. now if you were to argue for pvp and instance to go upwards in scale with crafting instead of crafting to go down to pvp/instances level. that i wouldn't necessarily disagree with it would be punishing for players not skilled in pvp/instance but it would still allow dedicated low number guilds to get to the top ten over bigger less dedicated guild so a good thing in my books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domatron Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Since Triumph has completely burned themselves out on crafting then they should reap what they have sown. This thread is nothing but petty selfishness. Every serious conquest guild has known how effective crafting is since day one, and I doubt Triumph is a exception. Yet amusingly they chose not to say anything about it until after they burned themselves out on it. The only thing I see here is a guild that no longer has resources or rather the will to get the resources to win at conquest yet wants to continue to win every week. All I see is a crybaby whose sad his secret weapon is out since he apparently knew about the outsized rewards already. Aren't baseless assumptions fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domatron Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 crafting is currently the only way they can make up their numbers that means crafting is good as is. now if you were to argue for pvp and instance to go upwards in scale with crafting instead of crafting to go down to pvp/instances level. that i wouldn't necessarily disagree with it would be punishing for players not skilled in pvp/instance but it would still allow dedicated low number guilds to get to the top ten over bigger less dedicated guild so a good thing in my books Why were repeatable flashpoints and PvP nerfed? Surely those could've leveled the playing field for smaller guilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicallypuzzled Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Why were repeatable flashpoints and PvP nerfed? Surely those could've leveled the playing field for smaller guilds. indeed why were they? a stupid move for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicallypuzzled Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Why were repeatable flashpoints and PvP nerfed? Surely those could've leveled the playing field for smaller guilds. indeed why were they? a stupid move for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Why were repeatable flashpoints and PvP nerfed? Surely those could've leveled the playing field for smaller guilds. Because the cost (there was no cost) and time per point were horrifically out of balance for something that was repeatable. Again, crafting has a credit cost that is included in with the time. Yes, harvesting requires time; either your companions are harvesting or you are. Companions harvesting is crafting downtime; player harvesting is a downtime to other conquest objectives. That trade-off is why there is a higher max theoretical / hr conquest gain. Edited September 30, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParagonAX Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Because the cost (there was no cost) and time per point were horrifically out of balance for something that was repeatable. Again, crafting has a credit cost that is included in with the time. Yes, harvesting requires time; either your companions are harvesting or you are. Companions harvesting is crafting downtime; player harvesting is a downtime to other conquest objectives. That trade-off is why there is a higher max theoretical / hr conquest gain. It's not just a higher theoretical max. Crafting is by leaps and bounds higher than any other activity in terms of gaining conquest points. I'm not even going to bother requoting myself. I will quote the theorycrafter from Wook: On the theory side of things, I calculate that crafting is 4 times superior to the next best point gathering method in the WORST case scenario (no bonus to crafting, 3x bonus to Ops/FPs). It is as much as 8 times superior in the best case. In game theory, this is known as a "saddle point", which means that it is superior to all other strategies, and therefore the only strategy that should be employed. In other words, it is the ONLY strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambeezy Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Crafting to win needs to be nerfed badly. I can understand if you want to get 140k conquest per week per toon for crafting but to get 140k conquest per day per toon is just *********** insane. Two weeks ago my guild came in 10th on our plant only because we finally got some love for doing operations. We did every operation on all 3 modes on as many toons as we could and we still only came in 10th place. Why did we not get higher than 10th place? CRAFTING! My vote is to nerf crafting. Edited September 30, 2014 by Rambeezy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Crafting to win needs to be nerfed badly. I can understand if you want to get 140k conquest per week per toon for crafting but to get 140k conquest per day per toon is just *********** insane. Two weeks ago my guild came in 10th on our plant only because we finally got some love for doing operations. We did every operation on all 3 modes on as many toons as we could and we still only came in 10th place. Why did we not get higher than 10th place? CRAFTING! Or more likely, they did the same thing as your guild... they just did more of it. And you could have crafted too... Edited September 30, 2014 by azudelphi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambeezy Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Or more likely, they did the same thing as your guild... they just did more of it. And you could have crafted too... Actually we were the only guild in the top 10 who was capable of doing all 4 raids on NiM. Edited September 30, 2014 by Rambeezy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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