SWTOR is among the most popular MMO's on PC

[CelCawdro]

Arkerus, I think you know that no such hard evidence exists. However, it is pretty clear that EA promotes the games it feels are doing well, and at one point SWTOR was not likely in it's favorite corner.

 

However, it looks like that has likely changed.

 

It is really just speculation by almost anyone that posts this sort of thing.

 

Daniel Erickson actually was pretty candid about EA's influence in the later beta stages of the game. I'm just not about to drudge up old interviews and archived beta posts for someone so obviously combative.

[LordArtemis]

Daniel Erickson actually was pretty candid about EA's influence in the later beta stages of the game. I'm just not about to drudge up old interviews and archived beta posts for someone so obviously combative.

 

It's likely just me, but I take anything that DE said and apply the same validity that I would to, perhaps a used car salesman. That does not mean your contention is incorrect, only that for me pointing out comments made by DE does not help the point being made.

Edited September 26, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Arkerus]

Arkerus, I think you know that no such hard evidence exists. However, it is pretty clear that EA promotes the games it feels are doing well, and at one point SWTOR was not likely in it's favorite corner.

 

However, it looks like that has likely changed.

 

It is really just speculation by almost anyone that posts this sort of thing.

 

So he should admit that. It was a ridiculous statement to begin with. When people make claims like that, they should be prepared to back it up. When he presented his argument, i took an open view, read it, and found nothing that supported the claim.

 

People sling the most absurd claims around and get huffy when asked to back up that claim.

[Pietrastor]

Don't misread me - I highly doubt the rug will be pulled out from under BioWare for a good, long time. That being said, while I would not contend that the game is on "life support" or some other such nonsense, I do not believe that it is receiving the attention (and resources) from EA to maintain a steady stream of quality content - attention it would be receiving if it had lived up to the impossible goals that EA had for the game. Goals that their meddling actively hindered, in hindsight.

 

Look no further than another EA MMO - Warhammer Online, and compare the steady stream of updates TOR is getting, along with consistient mentions in fiscal reports AND recent presence at EA's Gamescom press conference. Obviously the game is back in executives' favour, even if not on WOW-level.

[Arkerus]

Daniel Erickson actually was pretty candid about EA's influence in the later beta stages of the game. I'm just not about to drudge up old interviews and archived beta posts for someone so obviously combative.

 

EA asking the developers to be done by Christmas has NOTHING to do with having a "no confidence" vote. If anything, EA asking the developers to finish the product was EA saying "we have to go because its time for your product to hit the market." It has nothing to do with confidence. Shoot, if anything, it says "we have confidence so its time to hit the shelf."

 

Again, you SPECULATE that EA has no confidence in this product, today. Back up your claim or admit it was silly speculation.

 

You and I both know you can't back it up.

[LordArtemis]

So he should admit that. It was a ridiculous statement to begin with. When people make claims like that, they should be prepared to back it up. When he presented his argument, i took an open view, read it, and found nothing that supported the claim.

 

People sling the most absurd claims around and get huffy when asked to back up that claim.

 

...you mean the kind of claims like "no one cares"?

 

I understand your point. But your not innocent with respect to hyperbole yourself Arkerus IMO. I believe many of us have made comments here that are "questionable" opinions. To question the validity of the opinion or point out it's speculative nature is certainly appropriate, but perhaps toning down the rhetoric a bit might be appropriate in the responses.

Edited September 26, 2014 by LordArtemis

[CelCawdro]

Look no further than another EA MMO - Warhammer Online, and compare the steady stream of updates TOR is getting, along with consistient mentions in fiscal reports AND recent presence at EA's Gamescom press conference. Obviously the game is back in executives' favour, even if not on WOW-level.

 

Warhammer was actually "merged" with BioWare for the purpose of gutting the Mythic development team and putting them to work on SW:TOR. The PvP systems are nigh identical, as are a few of the warzones. The mechanics behind tanking, most specifically, are identical in PvP and PvE.

 

EA lost faith in that game, gave them a little freedom for a few years to do whatever they wished, gutted the talent behind it in order to get the Next Big Thing going, then pulled the plug after letting in linger for awhile in maintenance mode. We're currently in that "freedom" stage with SW:TOR. I'll be watching their next MMO announcement with a degree of caution.

[Arkerus]

...you mean the kind of claims like "no one cares"?

 

I understand your point. But your not innocent with respect to hyperbole yourself Arkerus IMO. I believe many of us have made comments here that are "questionable" opinions. To question the validity of the opinion is certainly appropriate, but perhaps toning down the rhetoric a bit might be appropriate in the responses.

 

Sure. I think you can look back at the post. I was extremely clean and clear in what I asked. Should I have pasted a bunch of smiley faces and sunglasses? In fact, I thought I was being very reasonable.

 

I think its fair to say this well off course now.

 

To his credit, if we get a big push back on 3.0 and they actually say something crazy like "its not coming", then we have evidence EA isn't funding the product. But something tells me that isn't going to happen.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Arkerus

[Sarfux]

Star Wars: The Old Republic is a great game that will continue to grow and get bigger and better as time goes on Rome wasn't built in a day

[CelCawdro]

It's likely just me, but I take anything that DE said and apply the same validity that I would to, perhaps a used car salesman. That does not mean your contention is incorrect, only that for me pointing out comments made by DE does not help the point being made.

 

There were the remarks he made on the press circuit and remarks he made on the forums and in fan interviews. Sure, he liked to dodge a lot of questions, but he was quite clear in the reasons behind the nerfing of the modding system and the implementation of Hammerpoint Station. The former was a mandate to adhere to a system of "visual progression" in order to appeal to the current MMO market, and the latter was created simply because of an identified gap in the availability of flashpoints during leveling and the need to fill it to suit the expectations of the playerbase. Both were sudden reversals of previous stances. Both were thinly-veiled attempts to emulate WarCraft. Not to mention the post-release months in which development focused almost entirely on the raid treadmill instead of the unique strengths of SW:TOR, essentially being developed for a playerbase of other more-established games instead of the people that were actually here.

 

Alas, the forums have such a short memory. What was one day common knowledge becomes an outrageous claim the next. While I will go out of my way to refresh the memories of those who are clearly interested and civil, I will not extend that courtesy to those who do not have those traits.

Edited September 26, 2014 by CelCawdro

[Arkerus]

There were the remarks he made on the press circuit and remarks he made on the forums and in fan interviews. Sure, he liked to dodge a lot of questions, but he was quite clear in the reasons behind the nerfing of the modding system and the implementation of Hammerpoint Station. The former was a mandate to adhere to a system of "visual progression" in order to appeal to the current MMO market, and the latter was created simply because of an identified gap in the availability of flashpoints during leveling and the need to fill it to suit the expectations of the playerbase. Both were sudden reversals of previous stances. Both were thinly-veiled attempts to emulate WarCraft.

 

Alas, the forums have such a short memory. What was one day common knowledge becomes an outrageous claim the next. While I will go out of my way to refresh the memories of those who are clearly interested and civil, I will not extend that courtesy to those who do not have those traits.

 

Nothing here is a "no confidence" vote. They are distinct design decisions to appeal to a certain market.

 

A NO CONFIDENCE vote by EA's senior leadership, or management, or the board, would obviously be a sharp decrease in funding based on a company realignment of resources. They did, at one point, re-align the product with a new development staff and a new business model. If anything that was a vote of confidence because EA wasn't ready to throw in the towel. They sat down, looked at the product and the team said "we need change the product because our analysis says we can make XYZ profit if we change course, right now."

 

That's how the real world works. Everything EA has done so far has been nothing short of saying "we feel we can make a profit here both in the short term and the long term if we continue to invest in the product itself."

 

A no confidence vote would be extremely obvious. Warhammer is a prime example of a game with a no confidence vote by leadership. That obviously isn't happening here.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Arkerus

[Pietrastor]

EA lost faith in that game

Precisely. Something that nearly happened with TOR as well. TOR didn't kill Warhammer, it killed itself and EA quickly pulled the plug. If F2P didn't work for TOR, same would've happened here. But it did work, and is bringing a nice buck to EA. Not on WOW level obviously, but stil significant enough as reflected by quaterly reports to investors.

 

ALso, there's not gonna be another big EA (or Ubisoft or Activision) MMO announcement anytime soon. AAA MMO "genre" is on the exit. The few remaining titles that managed to rebound will stay and their publishers will continue to support them, but they won't allocate hunderds of millions for developement of another one. Even Blizzard/Activision gave up.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Pietrastor

[CelCawdro]

Precisely. Something that nearly happened with TOR as well. TOR didn't kill Warhammer, it killed itself and EA quickly pulled the plug. If F2P didn't work for TOR, same would've happened here. But it did work, and is bringing a nice buck to EA. Not on WOW level obviously, but stil significant enough as reflected by quaterly reports to investors.

 

ALso, there's not gonna be another big EA (or Ubisoft or Activision) MMO announcement anytime soon. AAA MMO "genre" is on the exit. The few remaining titles that managed to rebound will stay and their publishers will continue to support them, but they won't allocate hunderds of millions for developement of another one. Even Blizzard/Activision gave up.

 

Again, not saying it's worthless. As stated, it's probably the second-most profitable MMO on the market right now. My point is that EA wasn't going for the silver medal. When they make their next attempt for gold, I wouldn't be surprised to see support for SW:TOR drop further than it has.

[Pietrastor]

Again, not saying it's worthless. As stated, it's probably the second-most profitable MMO on the market right now. My point is that EA wasn't going for the silver medal. When they make their next attempt for gold, I wouldn't be surprised to see support for SW:TOR drop further than it has.

But they won't make their next attempt at gold, that's the point. They and other publishers already know it won't work so yeah, they're content with silver

[Arkerus]

Again, not saying it's worthless. As stated, it's probably the second-most profitable MMO on the market right now. My point is that EA wasn't going for the silver medal. When they make their next attempt for gold, I wouldn't be surprised to see support for SW:TOR drop further than it has.

 

Going for "gold" isn't always a company objective. I work for one of the biggest corporations in the world and we recognize that going for gold every time is a fools errand.

[LordArtemis]

Sure. I think you can look back at the post. I was extremely clean and clear in what I asked. Should I have pasted a bunch of smiley faces and sunglasses? In fact, I thought I was being very reasonable.

 

I think its fair to say this well off course now.

 

To his credit, if we get a big push back on 3.0 and they actually say something crazy like "its not coming", then we have evidence EA isn't funding the product. But something tells me that isn't going to happen.

 

Well, I was more alluding to your responses, but naturally you do not need my permission, nor my approval to post. You can do as you wish of course.

 

I don't think you questioning the validity of the point is anywhere close to off base. I think it is a reasonable question to ask.

 

As I said earlier, I think one could speculate that at one time it was likely SWTOR was not the favorite child, considering it's poor performance shortly after launch (relatively speaking of course) and how it was treated in public statements by EA....namely the lack of mention a few times, or if mentioned obviously a footnote.

 

That does not seem to be the case today. The most recent reports, if I am not mistaken, had SWTOR right up front in the limelight, so I would speculate that if at one time EA did not have love for SWTOR, it likely has love now.

 

Naturally that is just pure speculation on my part.

Edited September 27, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Arkerus]

Well, I was more alluding to your responses, but naturally you do not need my permission, nor my approval to post. You can do as you wish of course.

 

I don't think you questioning the validity of the point is anywhere close to off base. I think it is a reasonable question to ask.

 

As I said earlier, I think one could speculate that at one time it was likely SWTOR was not the favorite child, considering it's poor performance shortly after launch (relatively speaking of course) and how it was treated in public statements by EA....namely the lack of mention a few times, or if mentioned obviously a footnote.

 

That does not seem to be the case today. The most recent reports, if I am not mistaken, had SWTOR right up front in the limelight, so I would speculate that if at one time EA did not have love for SWTOR, it likely has love now.

 

Naturally that is just pure speculation on my part.

 

Well said. I can agree with that.

[Karkais]

For me the thing that turned me off GSF is...(may sound lame but...) that the starships are sooo slooowww. It takes you forever to get from one spot to another. It`s just not dynamic.

 

It needs the afterburner mechanic first invented by Chris Roberts in Wing commander I.

[t-darko]

Even to speculate on a MMO world without a starwars(SW) theme is incredibly naive and underestimating of the business potential in any SW product.

 

SWToR gives the player its opportunity to be 'that' hero in 'the' galaxy, the fact is that there is probably no more popular culture occurrence that so spreads and stretch over generations like SW. This fact alone makes any speculation on the 'games dying' a huge misjudgement, as it said in a earlier post, Disneys entry on the SW scene isn't one of curiosity, there is money to be made here, and in that fact, will SWToR never cater to the nerdiest and hardcore MMO gamers, that player base is the most ill loyal on the whole MMO market. SWToR will always be the game to attract casuals, with just some sparks for the hardcore gamers if any.

 

With the upcoming movie and with the start of 'Rebels', a new fanbase is being molded, SWToR will eventually be in phase in what is now considered to be Canon, the updates to come will at some point include a better game engine and with that a whole 'new' game. We all are just now in the most expensive and official, and profitable, Beta testing there ever have been.

 

By the time E7 will have its premiere SW will celebrate its 37th birthday as a franchise and with Disney at the helm we'll probably experience 37 more . . .

Edited October 2, 2014 by t-darko

[Arkerus]

Even to speculate on a MMO world without a starwars(SW) theme is incredibly naive and underestimating of the business potential in any SW product.

 

SWToR gives the player its opportunity to be 'that' hero in 'the' galaxy, the fact is that there is probably no more popular culture occurrence that so spreads and stretch over generations like SW. This fact alone makes any speculation on the 'games dying' a huge misjudgement, as it said in a earlier post, Disneys entry on the SW scene isn't one of curiosity, there is money to be made here, and in that fact, will SWToR never cater to the nerdiest and hardcore MMO gamers, that player base is the most ill loyal on the whole MMO market. SWToR will always be the game to attract casuals, with just some sparks for the hardcore gamers if any.

 

With the upcoming movie and with the start of 'Rebels', a new fanbase is being molded, SWToR will eventually be in phase in what is now considered to be Canon, the updates to come will at some point include a better game engine and with that a whole 'new' game. We all are just now in the most expensive and official, and profitable, Beta testing there ever have been.

 

By the time E7 will have its premiere SW will celebrate its 37th birthday as a franchise and with Disney at the helm we'll probably experience 37 more . . .

 

Your post is well received and well written except for this part:

 

SWToR will eventually be in phase in what is now considered to be Canon, the updates to come will at some point include a better game engine and with that a whole 'new' game. We all are just now in the most expensive and official, and profitable, Beta testing there ever have been.

 

This game will always be an independent product not tied to the official movies in any way. There was some confusion at first but it has been confirmed; this game is "legends" material. I simply think about it as an alternate universe because...well...it is.

 

ANyway. The rest of your post is spot on. There is money to be made here and this game will never cater to the most hardcore, nerdy, geeky, of fans. It is designed to generate revenue...just like the movies. It has to have mass market appeal.

 

The people that complain the loudest are often the most clueless to the fact that: this game/movie/TV show isn't for you. Yes. You wanted a moisture farming simulator and hardcore MMO environments. Well...too bad. That isn't the target market here.

 

And as we have seen, not catering to the hardcore only crowd is working.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Arkerus

[t-darko]

Your post is well received and well written except for this part:

 

SWToR will eventually be in phase in what is now considered to be Canon, the updates to come will at some point include a better game engine and with that a whole 'new' game. We all are just now in the most expensive and official, and profitable, Beta testing there ever have been.

 

This game will always be an independent product not tied to the official movies in any way. There was some confusion at first but it has been confirmed; this game is "legends" material. I simply think about it as an alternate universe because...well...it is.

 

ANyway. The rest of your post is spot on. There is money to be made here and this game will never cater to the most hardcore, nerdy, geeky, of fans. It is designed to generate revenue...just like the movies. It has to have mass market appeal.

 

The people that complain the loudest are often the most clueless to the fact that: this game/movie/TV show isn't for you. Yes. You wanted a moisture farming simulator and hardcore MMO environments. Well...too bad. That isn't the target market here.

 

And as we have seen, not catering to the hardcore only crowd is working.

 

I hear you my friend, But . . .

 

Don't underestimate the poowaa of the Dark side . . . oops "Greed" it should say "Greed". Don't underestimate the power of greed. The fanbase that are strongest financially, is the EU fans! If you're a good market planner you don't disregard that, and Disney would never have become Disney if they had . . .

 

I'll say it's already begun . . .

[PavSalco]

SWTOR would be even more popular if it had a team that actually works to fix bugs which force people to cease playing the game, e.g. an infinite loading screen after getting disconnection.

 

As someone else said, they slap our faces with this kind of approach to their own game. They know they can ignore some issues as we are going to play SWTOR anyway because it's good nonetheless and it's SW game

Edited October 3, 2014 by PavSalco

[GRINnBARRETT]

Wildstar looked too goofy for me even to try. I did try TESO & it was like playing a beta with all the bugs & so forth. PvP lag is unbearable (sayeth everyone not just me). TESO will get around to fixing them I suppose & I'll try it again after they do. It has promise. I like this game but there's only so much you can do if you don't want to raid. I pvp with guildies, do dailies, level alts, don't have any interest in conquest grind, or raiding. If I wanted to raid I'd go play WoW where they have a 10 year head start (but then again you'd have to live with once/year new content) and a myriad of guilds to raid with. Rift was good to me; their devs are the best. The rate at which they release new content is what every MMO should strive for. Unfortunately it is too much like other MMOs so the boredom sets in rather quickly. I've been playing EvE Online for the last cpl months & it is fun at times. I really like their skill system. This week I started playing Shadow of Mordor (RPG) & it may be the best game in 2 or 3 years to come out. The thing with RPGs is the shelf-life is rather short (unless it's Skyrim).

 

So I continue to play this game b/c I like the IP. I still have a cpl more class story lines to get through, and a few more people to stalk in warzones. Strongholds - kinda meh. They all look alike. There's no diversity like in Rift where you truly build your own housing. The CM has been pretty boring of late. Whoever is creating the CM content should polish up their resume IMO.

 

Anyhow, just my opinion. Happy hunting wherever we all end up.