Assault or Gunnery currently parsing better?

[BorisKarloffe]

With Torparse out of commission, I am finding it difficult to find any RECENT info on what numbers ppl are getting parsing with either spec.

 

I've run Assault for some time and can routinely get from 3400-3500 in full 180 optimized/set bonus gear, but in that same gear I only hit about 3200ish in Gunnery.

 

I think the rotation is fine, but my APMs seem low (32ish). Unfortunately, I can't find anything to compare it to.

 

Any ideas?

[venomlash]

The specs haven't changed much in the past few patches. The general rule is Assault parses better, but Gunnery is actually preferred for MOST fights because it has better survivability, more room to work AoE into the rotation, and handles target switching much better.

[Gyronamics]

As assault you either focus on your rotation which is strictly single target with rare or no target swapping or you drop into lower ammo regen than gunnery to do anything else and that's a bad thing when your rotation demands 32 ammo minimum to be spent each 6s for you to keep your rotation going.

 

Plus you constantly need to be babysat by someone giving an armour debuff or that's a another chunk off your output. Remember 80% of your damage in assault requires an armour debuff to hit the most.

 

If you can get the easy conditions then you'll do fine in assault.

 

If actually the fight demands short burst phases, rapid target swapping and AOE then forget about it. Gunnery has the constant regen and better proc system and armour debuff to do fiddly fights.

 

DF

 

Nefra - assault (like it matters)

Draxus - gunnery

Grobthok - doesn't matter, can AOE the adds more as gunnery or tunnel grob as assault

Corruptor - gunnery

Brontes - gunnery (decoy balls ftw)

 

DP

 

Bestia - gunnery unless you get a free pass to tunnel bestia all fight and do nothing else.

Tyrans - assault > any other class in any spec

Calph - gunnery

Raptus - gunnery

Council - assault

 

 

However the "important" thing is assault parses higher on a dummy

Edited September 21, 2014 by Gyronamics

[Foxpthree]

 

However the "important" thing is assault parses higher on a dummy

 

lol. That is so true!

[goeblu]

Gunnery is just sad to parse with. It's like 500 dps differential between assault and gunnery.

[venomlash]

Gunnery is just sad to parse with. It's like 500 dps differential between assault and gunnery.

 

And yet it is delightful to solo with.

[Gyronamics]

And yet it is delightful to solo with.

 

Assault used to be cool to solo with.

 

Back when it had reduced CD on Reactive Shield when hit

 

and reduced CD on Adrenaline Rush and Reserve Powercell on crit.

 

And this was when Adrenaline Rush healed for 15% without any *you need to be almost dead* requirements

 

And Assault Plastique was a massive hitting grenade almost on Demo Round level not this pansy *** DoT which finishes doing damage half a minute later.

[cs_zoltan]

And Assault Plastique was a massive hitting grenade almost on Demo Round level not this pansy *** DoT which finishes doing damage half a minute later.

 

Changing AP was one of the better decisions BW made, that kind of burst on a DoT class was over the top.

[Gyronamics]

Changing AP was one of the better decisions BW made, that kind of burst on a DoT class was over the top.

 

On the VG yes.

 

On the Commando? Hell no (we are in the commando/mercenary forum remember)

 

For those not actually aware of the "dot" power of a commando, it accounts for 20% of total damage, the rest is cast damage from Charged Bolts or Full Auto which in turn unlocks High impact Bolt. AP was the one meaningful thing a commando could do when interrupted. Making it take ages to do damage was hugely negative to its pvp performance.

 

VG cannot be stopped in their rotation and have much higher DoT damage.

 

I hope I don't need to spell out how this is not the same thing for commando.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Gyronamics

[DuEldrvarya]

You guys want to be technical? The 2.6 change to arsenal lowered its top dps because it increased the CD on barrage proc from 6 seconds to 8 seconds in exchange for making the spec more reliable.

[cs_zoltan]

On the VG yes.

 

On the Commando? Hell no (we are in the commando/mercenary forum remember)

 

For those not actually aware of the "dot" power of a commando, it accounts for 20% of total damage, the rest is cast damage from Charged Bolts or Full Auto which in turn unlocks High impact Bolt. AP was the one meaningful thing a commando could do when interrupted. Making it take ages to do damage was hugely negative to its pvp performance.

 

VG cannot be stopped in their rotation and have much higher DoT damage.

 

I hope I don't need to spell out how this is not the same thing for commando.

 

That's a PVP problem, In PVE the current Assault with old AP burst would rival some of the ranged burst specs with much higher sustained.

(Also In PVP it can still crit 6-7.5k)

[TACeMossie]

On the VG yes.

 

On the Commando? Hell no (we are in the commando/mercenary forum remember)

 

For those not actually aware of the "dot" power of a commando, it accounts for 20% of total damage, the rest is cast damage from Charged Bolts or Full Auto which in turn unlocks High impact Bolt. AP was the one meaningful thing a commando could do when interrupted. Making it take ages to do damage was hugely negative to its pvp performance.

 

VG cannot be stopped in their rotation and have much higher DoT damage.

 

I hope I don't need to spell out how this is not the same thing for commando.

 

To be fair, until AP got the 35% DoT damage boost for VGs, Assault Vanguards were the worst performing DPS spec in the game that was the most powerful for their class. Hell, even balance shadows at the time were better (and they still are )

 

Now the reason I dont see a change to AP back to pre 2.0 style is simply because of how powerful Charged Bolts is. That damn ability was almost enough to put a 300dps gap between Vanguards and Commandos before the DoT boost came into play.

 

This may change in patch 3.0, but unless they remove the surge bonus from charged bolts or something, I dont see Commandos getting the high DoT damage of VG Assault (similarly, if they rework the VG set bonus so the 2-piece boosts Ion Pulse crit rates, I expect the DoT boost to be reverted).

[capsales]

Gunnery is just sad to parse with. It's like 500 dps differential between assault and gunnery.

I don't find this true. I'm, only about 100-200 apart. Dummy parsing (w/ 1mil and armor pen debuff) Assault 3500-3600 and Gunnery 3400-3500. Broke 2700 w/ gunnery on NiM Draxus last night (personal best). I probably suck at assault now that I run gunnery so much.

[goeblu]

Yea my average gunnery parse is somewhere between 3200-3500 where as my assault averages between 3700-4000

[Gyronamics]

Siamese thinking of A must do what B does despite having two totally different personalities is what ends up with commando getting shafted every time the tree is changed because of the vanguard side.

 

AP has always been and still is a non-essential item to the mechanics of Assault. The trivial DoT that commandos apply to buff the 80% white damage is fulfilled by Incendiary Round.

 

AP was crippled from performing burst because of the Vanguard side in PVP. It was then given a forced reason for existence by becoming a higher damaging alternative to IR - high total damage spread out over time for very low spike.

 

While the Vanguard AP was buffed up with a DoT boost and never stopped being extremely tenacious damage spammers when in range it has been completely junked for assault commandos who when unable to cast are stuck with fluffy DoT damage and no bonus ammo regen because that is only activated... by casting.

 

Charged Bolts is great, just so long as you don't need to move much and are allowed to channel casts with no protection for 50% of the time of the rotation.

 

2-3 key things would improve Assault Commando in all areas of play while not increasing dps on the famous dummy parses.

 

1) 100% proc of IA using FA or CB with the current 6s lockout

2) AP specifically for Commando reverted to a full Kinetic damage timed grenade

3) Alacrity reduces internal lockout of IA or is binned totally from the tree.

 

Point 1 reduces the forced casting time to keep the rotation going to 1 Charged Bolt per 6s allowing TWO 1GCD filler abilities per rotation OR one 3s AOE cast like Mortar Volley or Pulse Cannon without dropping the rotation. Agility while keeping up the rotation improves greatly.

 

Point 2 restores the ability to do meaningful immediate (almost immediate) burst if prevented from casting, can be stacked with casting for improved burst when required or possible.

 

Point 3 is something gone over many many times. Vanguard got alacrity replaced with crit for example and it's still hanging on for negative benefit to commando.

 

 

And just to keep things on an even keel, I fully believe Gunnery is a very solid spec as it currently is and simply needs its damage ratios on its abilities increased slightly, preferably not on the burst and the ammo regen changed to a constant from the spiky periodic regen it currently has.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Gyronamics

[goeblu]

Siamese thinking of A must do what B does despite having two totally different personalities is what ends up with commando getting shafted every time the tree is changed because of the vanguard side.

 

AP has always been and still is a non-essential item to the mechanics of Assault. The trivial DoT that commandos apply to buff the 80% white damage is fulfilled by Incendiary Round.

 

AP was crippled from performing burst because of the Vanguard side in PVP. It was then given a forced reason for existence by becoming a higher damaging alternative to IR - high total damage spread out over time for very low spike.

 

While the Vanguard AP was buffed up with a DoT boost and never stopped being extremely tenacious damage spammers when in range it has been completely junked for assault commandos who when unable to cast are stuck with fluffy DoT damage and no bonus ammo regen because that is only activated... by casting.

 

Charged Bolts is great, just so long as you don't need to move much and are allowed to channel casts with no protection for 50% of the time of the rotation.

 

2-3 key things would improve Assault Commando in all areas of play while not increasing dps on the famous dummy parses.

 

1) 100% proc of IA using FA or CB with the current 6s lockout

2) AP specifically for Commando reverted to a full Kinetic damage timed grenade

3) Alacrity reduces internal lockout of IA or is binned totally from the tree.

 

Point 1 reduces the forced casting time to keep the rotation going to 1 Charged Bolt per 6s allowing TWO 1GCD filler abilities per rotation OR one 3s AOE cast like Mortar Volley or Pulse Cannon without dropping the rotation. Agility while keeping up the rotation improves greatly.

 

Point 2 restores the ability to do meaningful immediate (almost immediate) burst if prevented from casting, can be stacked with casting for improved burst when required or possible.

 

Point 3 is something gone over many many times. Vanguard got alacrity replaced with crit for example and it's still hanging on for negative benefit to commando.

 

 

And just to keep things on an even keel, I fully believe Gunnery is a very solid spec as it currently is and simply needs its damage ratios on its abilities increased slightly, preferably not on the burst and the ammo regen changed to a constant from the spiky periodic regen it currently has.

 

You're pretty spot on Gyro. I do like your idea with the change to IA being 100%. I also think alacrity needs to be replaced with crit like the vanguards got. If Bioware is able to change the top tier abiltity for commandos and not vanguards, that would be awesome, I would suggest make AP a hard hitting 10m Aoe, maybe 10k on primary and lower on secondary targets.

 

I still enjoy playing gunnery, its still good for some fights. I think some minor adjustments need to be made, such as:

Rework ammo regen to be like tactics vanguards and increase surge to grav round. I think also adding some base crit to gunnery would be good, even if its 2%.

[Foxpthree]

Siamese thinking of A must do what B does despite having two totally different personalities is what ends up with commando getting shafted every time the tree is changed because of the vanguard side.

 

AP has always been and still is a non-essential item to the mechanics of Assault. The trivial DoT that commandos apply to buff the 80% white damage is fulfilled by Incendiary Round.

 

AP was crippled from performing burst because of the Vanguard side in PVP. It was then given a forced reason for existence by becoming a higher damaging alternative to IR - high total damage spread out over time for very low spike.

 

While the Vanguard AP was buffed up with a DoT boost and never stopped being extremely tenacious damage spammers when in range it has been completely junked for assault commandos who when unable to cast are stuck with fluffy DoT damage and no bonus ammo regen because that is only activated... by casting.

 

Charged Bolts is great, just so long as you don't need to move much and are allowed to channel casts with no protection for 50% of the time of the rotation.

 

2-3 key things would improve Assault Commando in all areas of play while not increasing dps on the famous dummy parses.

 

1) 100% proc of IA using FA or CB with the current 6s lockout

2) AP specifically for Commando reverted to a full Kinetic damage timed grenade

3) Alacrity reduces internal lockout of IA or is binned totally from the tree.

 

Point 1 reduces the forced casting time to keep the rotation going to 1 Charged Bolt per 6s allowing TWO 1GCD filler abilities per rotation OR one 3s AOE cast like Mortar Volley or Pulse Cannon without dropping the rotation. Agility while keeping up the rotation improves greatly.

 

Point 2 restores the ability to do meaningful immediate (almost immediate) burst if prevented from casting, can be stacked with casting for improved burst when required or possible.

 

Point 3 is something gone over many many times. Vanguard got alacrity replaced with crit for example and it's still hanging on for negative benefit to commando.

 

 

And just to keep things on an even keel, I fully believe Gunnery is a very solid spec as it currently is and simply needs its damage ratios on its abilities increased slightly, preferably not on the burst and the ammo regen changed to a constant from the spiky periodic regen it currently has.

 

I really, really like point 1. Changing IA to 100% at the 6s would be awesome. Right now to proc you need GCD filler + 2x charged bolt then HIB. Making it 100% would give you the ability to do 2 GCD fillers and then 1x charged bolt with a guaranteed HIB proc. This gives you much more flexibility to the rotation and works similar to gunnery/assault which only requires 1 cast of grav round to proc the full auto.