Sents: Underpowered and squishy? We playing the same game?

[GenesisUK]

Season's Greetings everyone,

 

Anyway I don't normally post as normally someone else can or has explained it better than me. I am playing a level 49 Sentinel almost 50 and would have been but obviously not playing for the next few days but quickly popping on here for my SWTOR fix.

 

I have to agree that we can "seem" underpowered at first and yes we are very gear dependment. But is gets a lot easier I promise so just stick with it.

 

My first tip would be to level with Focus until around 30-35 then switch to either Watchman or Combat then. I tried all the trees and several builds and found the damage output better in focus in the early levels.

 

Also plan ahead we can struggle against too many mobs as our survival is down to CDs and sometimes HoT's and make use of your companion by sending them in first if at all possible. Don't forgot to interupt and control mobs as much as possible such as our 1min stun to droids (there are a lot of droid type mobs in this game especially strong and elite)

 

Always burn down the weaker mobs first and much use of our OOC rest skill.

 

I don't normally play pure DPS classes in MMO I generally play healers or tanks but I have to say that playing the Sent has been a blast as it requires a lot of concentration and management to perform well in both in PvE and PvP.

 

I hope some of that helps and goodluck and see you in game.

 

Gen

 

*Edited*

I forgot to mention that we do under perform compared to some of the classes that are not even classed as pure dps classes but I feel that when played right and the right skill rotation is perfected we can definitely shine. But we do need a little bit of added attention in some areas.

Edited December 25, 2011 by GenesisUK

[Philmors]

But those Ranged classes also have heals or much better resistance.

 

So it's like they always get something around. We have, well, nothing. It takes us the same amount of time to get the mob 40% lower, while we take 3 times more damage :/ ... Melee should be a little harder I agree, but just try the classes in TOR, it's completely unfair. It just is. And I truly couldn't care less if any other famous MMO did the same or not (never tried WOW) but that's lame.

 

Also, no I'm not "doing it wrong".

 

Here's how I went on the elite on tatooine at level 33 :

 

1) Using Rebuke while Sending Kira first

 

2) Force leap, then Overload

 

3) zealous strike to generate focus and adding a load

 

4) Master Strike (adding two loads)

 

5) Cauterize

 

6) Force Camouflage to avoid any damage and making Kira tank for a bit

 

7) Pacify so he doesn't hurt Kira

 

8) Then Overload, zealous, blade storm, master strike

 

Now, I'm under 50%, Kira is at 30%, he's at 60% .

 

9) I use cauterize then Force stasis before the 3 loads pass off

 

10) I use reflect, Kira dies, he's at 30% I'm at 30%

 

11) He kb me over and over. I die.

 

I tried many different things, it always come to the point where he just starts doing his KB and we're on the floor 3 times in a row, he kills Kira, and I can't ever take all his damage by myself.

 

I've been able to kill them only with "call the force" thingy. :/

You haven't mentioned that you did interrupts or Force Stasis to interrupt skills as well. Doing that on bosses saves your hide. Also, is your gear up to date and does your main companion have decent gear as well. Also, Kira is a bit of a lousy companion for sentinals. She's actually a better companion for guardian tanks than sentinals on bosses. You are probably more better off with T7 or doc.

 

Not saying Jedi Knights (both guardians and sentinals) don't need buffs but I think people over dramatize it

Edited December 25, 2011 by Philmors

[oflow]

its the buggy non-responsive melee combat in this game that hurts sentinels the worst.

 

Abilities often not firing but using focus etc and abilities taking too long to actually activate in pvp. This class kinda emulates a fury warrior from wow and without being able to use your instants properly it suffers in pvp.

[Habboi]

Eh this may be my first proper MMO but I gotta say I find the Sentinel rather enjoyable to play as. I like challenges and as long as you keep your gear up and have a good rotation you'll be fine.

 

Most of the time players are asking "me" to help them because of the fast killing our class is capable of.

 

Regarding PvP it's true that we could do with a better stun like Force Pull that I heard got removed. However if you're on a good team then you can be useful.

 

Overall I think the challenge of the class makes it worth it and I'm sure they'll nerf some of the other classes someday especially Sith Casters with their forcefields that pretty much null my burning.

[xpraider]

I've currently got a 36 Sentinel, finished Act 1 and am now on Balmorra. I noticed that things tended to shift as I've been leveling up as far as the difficulty. At first things were fine early on. Then around the time I got off of Taris and onto Nar Shaddaa things seemed to get a bit tougher and was worse on going to Tatooine. There were times I would struggle against groups of non-elite mobs.

 

Once Act 1 finished though (when I was lvl 34) I did notice that the difficulty has shifted again and is not as bad as it was.

 

I'm combat specced with up to date gear. The trick is knowing your cool downs and the right companion. I almost never use Kira, I will usually take all the damage and get killed in the process. So, definitely use T7. At the very least he'll act as an ablative shield while you knock down the enemy's health to the point you can kill it even if T7 dies.

 

Also we have about 4-5 defensive abilities which will help keep us alive.

 

Force Stasis, Call on the Force, Disable Droid, Saber Ward, Pacify, Transcendence, and Rebuke.

 

Each of these will help keep you alive and stop taking at least some damage, and mentioned earlier, Force Kick is also a useful ability.

 

Other than Call on the Force, each of these abilities is something you should be able to use at least once, if not twice during a given battle assuming you're building up enough centering and focus.

 

I'm looking forward to getting the doctor as a companion as I'd like to see if I can do even better with him.

 

Also of note, try to keep your companion's gear at least somewhat up to date as well. I've noticed that on most of the planets at lot of the quests give either a random item, commendation badge, or companion item as a reward, and I tend to get way more commendations than I need for the gear on a given planet, so choosing the companion gear can also be beneficial.

 

Edit: To go into more detail on the defensive abilities. Also added Pacify and Disable Droid to that list.

 

Rebuke: A useful ability that not only prevents damage, but puts it back on the attacker. Make sure you are the one getting hit. If you have a tank with you, then don't bother with it unless you are getting hit by another mob or the tank is dead.

 

Force Stasis: Nice ability, does some damage while taking the opponent out of the fight. Best used if there are other characters alive to DPS. Helps save the tank some life as well. Use this all the time, but best to do it while someone else is alive to do damage.

 

Saber Ward: Very useful ability. Stops a lot of damage. Use it like Rebuke. Could even use it with Rebuke, but I'm not sure if the effect would stack.

 

Call on the Force: I'm putting this after Saber Ward since it has an effect on that. I use this as a last resort or if I know I'm going against a really nasty target that will be hard to kill. Resets Saber Ward and also provides a nice healing buff. I do tend to use it for it's heal while any group mates or companions are still alive, especially since I tend to use T7 and it keeps him alive a bit longer. If I'm tanking then I use Saber Ward, then this, then Saber Ward. Remember though, the longer your tank is alive the longer the enemy won't be hitting you.

 

Pacify: An interesting ability, more of a Debuff than a buff, but with a similar effect. You're not likely to take a lot of damage if your opponent can't hit you. Useful just about any time. Good for keeping your tanks alive and also keeping you alive if you're the target.

 

Disable Droid: The best cc that the Sentinel has in my opinion, since it takes an enemy pretty much out of the fight until you're ready for it, and can be recast fairly easily if the effect breaks. Unfortunately only useful against droids, so it's limited. But still good for taking 5 mobs down to 4 or 4 to 3, and so on.

 

Transcendence: For the most part I've been using this ability more than zen with my Centering. I find it tends to be a bit more useful for keeping myself and companion alive. The nice thing is that the buff is useful at just about any time since I can use it to try and keep T7 alive a bit longer. The only problem with it is that I need to have 30 Centering to use it, so unless I'm fighting or just fought a bunch of mooks, it may take a few seconds to build up the needed centering, and if I'm fighting a Boss, that time difference can be an issue. But with the other abilities it's still useful.

Edited December 25, 2011 by xpraider

[Lord_Lunacy]

Well, this confirms my sanity upon hitting the solo brick wall at lvl 30. Was fine till Alderaan when 4 normal mobs 2 levels below me would damn near wipe me out...if a strong npc is in there, it's faceplant time. Before Alderaan, I think I died maybe 4 times? On Alderaan...about 20ish? lol. I'm seriously starting to regret focusing all of my time on this class if it was gimped from the start. Oh well, I guess I'll have to roll a Trooper to destress myself.

 

Heh, it's starting to remind of of my Everquest days, when the higher you get in level, the weaker you become. Oh, what is up with the targeting system in this game? Click on a target near me, hit my attack and it mysteriously changes target to the one farthest away. Not always doing that, but enough to cause DPS loss...and sometimes death.

[kesayo]

They aren't worse than EVERY other class. There is a theme with SWTOR. If you are a non-force using ranged class. You can rock content 2 levels higher than yourself. If you are a force using class, you have to be 2-3 levels ABOVE the content to do the same...

 

Bioware knows this. It's been a recurring discussion on all the force using class forums for the last 4 builds in beta. They nerfed the force using classes quite a bit for no apparent reason.

 

It's doable, but we have to work harder and be smarter to do it. It would not be so bad except when you have to watch a ranged class come through that is several levels below you and do just as well. That's when it really gets under my skin. If I didn't have to see that every now and again, I would probably be ok.

 

But would I feel "Heroic?" Hell no.

 

I think the reason the force classes have been nerfed is because everyone would roll a Jedi if they were on par or better than the non-Jedi classes. Let's face it. Who wants to play a dual lightsaber wielding Jedi? Uh, how about EVERYONE.

 

So to prevent the entire server from rolling Sentinel they had to make it harder and also make the less appealing non-Jedi classes feel powerful. Otherwise, who would roll a smuggler or trooper if they were underpowered or even equal to Jedi?

[brokentelevision]

There are currently 2 classes that don't have a tank or healer spec.

 

Marauders and sentinels

 

and

 

snipers and gunslingers

 

The thing though, snipers and gunslingers are burst damage with lots of potential CC abilities and various other things to control who they fight.

 

Marauders and sentinels don't have that much burst we're both long sustained dps. Sure we usually come out ahead on raid boss fights or anything that stays alive for a long period of time, but we don't have burst or CC to make up for the lack of healing or tanking tree to subspec in for increased survivability.

 

That is why sentinels and marauders are weaker. What needs to be changed is:

 

maybe a centering/rage consumer that heals or provides a damage shield.

 

combined with a way to build up centering/rage charges before a fight so we're not at a disadvantage at the start. Like a 2/1 min CD move that instantly builds 30 centering/rage or a talent to make force leap instantly build 15 centering/rage.

 

 

Just throwing out ideas, something that increases survivability without needing to increase dps.

[Lord_Lunacy]

I think the reason the force classes have been nerfed is because everyone would roll a Jedi if they were on par or better than the non-Jedi classes. Let's face it. Who wants to play a dual lightsaber wielding Jedi? Uh, how about EVERYONE.

 

So to prevent the entire server from rolling Sentinel they had to make it harder and also make the less appealing non-Jedi classes feel powerful. Otherwise, who would roll a smuggler or trooper if they were underpowered or even equal to Jedi?

 

I have altitis...why gimp any of the classes when there are people that want to play them all?

[Strayth]

He's right though.

 

That's why they removed the "fun" abilities (iconic BTW) from the Sentinels. (while it used to be JK abilities, and ARE USED IN CUTSCENES...)

[Wotch]

 

maybe a centering/rage consumer that heals or provides a damage shield.

 

combined with a way to build up centering/rage charges before a fight so we're not at a disadvantage at the start. Like a 2/1 min CD move that instantly builds 30 centering/rage or a talent to make force leap instantly build 15 centering/rage.

 

 

Just throwing out ideas, something that increases survivability without needing to increase dps.

 

All of those already exist. I can't tell you the name without logging in, but they are higher level skills on a relatively long CD.

[brokentelevision]

All of those already exist. I can't tell you the name without logging in, but they are higher level skills on a relatively long CD.

 

Then thats why they don't mature till higher levels, honestly reduce them to lower levels and lower CDs

 

 

in my opinion redesign the class around centering/zen not building focus. Let guardians be about focus builders and sentinels about building centering.

[Strayth]

BTW, Balmora is "easy".

 

Tatooine and Alderande were close to nightmares for a watchman. I didn't even change my gear... And higher level mobs, I can kill them in a row. I could NEVER do that on Alderande.

[SunwindIon]

He's right though.

 

That's why they removed the "fun" abilities (iconic BTW) from the Sentinels. (while it used to be JK abilities, and ARE USED IN CUTSCENES...)

 

what abilities do you mean? I don't know anything about the game from beta so i'm genuinely curious on what i'm missing out on now.

[RamzaBehoulve]

what abilities do you mean? I don't know anything about the game from beta so i'm genuinely curious on what i'm missing out on now.

 

Force Pull & Saber Throw.

Edited December 25, 2011 by RamzaBehoulve

[Strayth]

And Force push.

[Cade_Taris]

From my personal experience (Level 31 Sentinel), it can be a difficult class to play compared to others such as the consular and trooper. Gear really matters, so make sure that you can get the best stuff that you can at all times. If you are dieing a lot, just use T7 as a damage sponge, and be liberal with what few CC abilities you have.

 

It's also worth noting that the game pretty much is in 'easy mode' until tatooine onwards. There is a quite steep difficulty curve at this point, which made me realise just how important having the best gear and companion management is.

 

My advice is to keep playing the class, and try to develop a rotation and combat system that works for you. Good luck!

[crangorw]

But those Ranged classes also have heals or much better resistance.

 

So it's like they always get something around. We have, well, nothing. It takes us the same amount of time to get the mob 40% lower, while we take 3 times more damage :/ ... Melee should be a little harder I agree, but just try the classes in TOR, it's completely unfair. It just is. And I truly couldn't care less if any other famous MMO did the same or not (never tried WOW) but that's lame.

 

Also, no I'm not "doing it wrong".

 

Here's how I went on the elite on tatooine at level 33 :

 

1) Using Rebuke while Sending Kira first

 

2) Force leap, then Overload

 

3) zealous strike to generate focus and adding a load

 

4) Master Strike (adding two loads)

 

5) Cauterize

 

6) Force Camouflage to avoid any damage and making Kira tank for a bit

 

7) Pacify so he doesn't hurt Kira

 

8) Then Overload, zealous, blade storm, master strike

 

Now, I'm under 50%, Kira is at 30%, he's at 60% .

 

9) I use cauterize then Force stasis before the 3 loads pass off

 

10) I use reflect, Kira dies, he's at 30% I'm at 30%

 

11) He kb me over and over. I die.

 

I tried many different things, it always come to the point where he just starts doing his KB and we're on the floor 3 times in a row, he kills Kira, and I can't ever take all his damage by myself.

 

I've been able to kill them only with "call the force" thingy. :/

 

can anyone who claims the class is fine and they have no problems with anything confirm the above basic rotation. I am doing ok but elites are an issue to say the least. i dont really use a rotation as such more a prio system. more like .....

1. force leap in ( and then off cool down )

2. over load saber

3. zealous strike again off cool down

4.cauterize off cool down assuming its not already ticking

4. slash ( when ever i have extra focus)

5. strike as filler

 

other cool downs i use as needed

 

just found this maybe helpful to have a read of http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=47695

[Freygrin]

One word "WoW".

 

WoW has spoiled many a players to easy mode game play. Though WoW was just as hard, if not harder than this game when it launched they became an easy mode 3 button MMO over the years.

 

I can't believe people thought the makers of Dragon Age: Origins would make an easy game ;D

 

Agreed. WoW is most likely the root cause, it requires little thought when it comes tactics or changes in play style.

[ErisktheRed]

I'm full watchman specd and yeah at 30+ the difficulty changes but PVE wise I am not frustrated much it's very fun. The healing from it does add a lot and survivabilty compared to the other specs. Yes JK has issues in groups and solo 30 on I do wish we had more CC to offer or a bit more burst... but full watchman I feel is the most balanced PVE. I don't feel weaker really just obviously you lack some utilty other classes have and other pure DPS classes have... But this from mainly PVE perspective I do recognize overall issues with JK as a whole and certain trees/specs over others I don't think we need much to "balance" things with other classes. Edited December 26, 2011 by ErisktheRed

[Toppins]

can anyone who claims the class is fine and they have no problems with anything confirm the above basic rotation. I am doing ok but elites are an issue to say the least. i dont really use a rotation as such more a prio system. more like .....

1. force leap in ( and then off cool down )

2. over load saber

3. zealous strike again off cool down

4.cauterize off cool down assuming its not already ticking

4. slash ( when ever i have extra focus)

5. strike as filler

 

other cool downs i use as needed

 

just found this maybe helpful to have a read of http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=47695

 

Yes, that rotation is the basic idea. I still maintain that using Kira as a Sentinel is "doing it wrong" unless you want the challenge. I don't see why using a DPS companion as a DPS class makes sense to anyone. Let me cover my class' weakness with... a companion that has the same weakness!

 

I never had a problem keeping T7 up-to-date all the way to 50. Plenty of commendation choices, quest rewards, drops, etc.

[Icecrypt]

Everyone thinks and knows this game is hard, there are some really though mobs out there. Im an operative and a healer and some of my class quests are redicilously hard, just hang in there we all knew one class would be a bit worse out then the others. But what you are talking about is like all the other classes just roflcopter everything and smash buttons while you need to keep a super rotation to just down 3 simple mobs. That isnt realistic and childish.

[firesprite_ea]

Force Pull & Saber Throw.

 

Force pull would fit the character very nicely (as the alternative to force jump and 2nd distace closer (well, 3rd if you have second jump skill).

However sabre throw - we have 2 of them - crippling throw (quite weak but with a nice debuff and if you go combat tree - root effect (imho very nice option!)

Dispatch - very powerful through, but you get it on later lvls only and usable on enemies with 20% only - though this does fit the idea of finishing a runnig foe.

[Pesko]

I played Sentinel on the Beta, and yes there they were the baddies bad! but now on live, wow! wonderful! fantastic! Play them right and they're amazing, and can kill anyone in one on one with ease!

[Axidus]

I'm a level 43 Sentinel in watchmen build right now and here's my opinion on things:

 

As a sentinel I feel I have to learn fights a lot more than the other classes. That said though I really don't mind it and honestly the minute you do you don't die or come out of the fight barely alive.

 

The only parts I actually found unusually hard was the first few gold mobs you fight immediately after Act I. Killing 3 Sith Harbingers, or something like that, would completely own me before I realised that even though he wasn't doing any attacking animation he still was hitting me for some crazy damage. After that though I rarely had any trouble.

 

I did ask a few friends who were playing different classes, and found out that the jedi knight is probably the most challenging class story to play. Ironically though they WANT to play a Jedi Knight class just cause they want a challenge rather than the class that runs in and kills a boss without flinching.

 

Currently I'm at the end of Act 2 and taking a break from the story. Here are a few tips for people who seem to have some troubles:

 

1. Interrupt. Biggest thing you want to do, you are sure to die so much faster without it. Kick is your best friend.

 

2. I never knew my companions got more abilities till I accidentally expanded their hotkey bar and found out at least 5 other things weren't on auto cast. These help immensely on many weaker mobs

 

3. On weaker and silver star mobs, if you're having trouble remember you have a few abilities that do massive damage when "incapacitated". Opportune strike and one other ability i cannot remember do a min of 1.2k or so damage to the weaker enemies and take them down fast. Though no use against bosses or gold star enemies it can really make the difference if you feel you're having trouble taking down weaker ones.

 

4. It doesn't hurt to gain exp from somewhere else. When you're on the starship do a few starship missions, the extra levels will no doubt give you the edge in the game

 

5. Last tip, when you hit level 40 I suggest grabbing the level 40 pvp armour, not only does it look pretty awesome but its a major upgrade over everything you'll probably have.