Strongholds = Kill Small Guilds

[DawnAskham]

It comes down the guild conquest rewards; if you are in a guild with a ship that is on the top 10 which this week is top 50, you get double rewards for doing the exact same thing.

 

That top 10 gets double individual rewards was a mistake, if they wanted to reward the guilds they should have made the rewards guild rewards.

 

Individuals should not get different rewards for the exact same effort just because the guild they are in has more or less members.

 

This especially undermines RP which is typically made up of many small themed guilds.

 

Not only that, but if your guild isn't large enough or rich enough to buy the ship, the individuals get no bonuses for objectives, so earning points requires they expend twice as much effort for half the rewards.

[saremun]

I really do enjoy this strongholds, one of the best concepts I have seen in MMO. Unfortunately this is really killing smaller guilds or those looking to build up. I have lost at least 6 people only because we lacked a flagship. So is strongholds forcing to have one guild on the server? It really is not fair and killing the balance of what is offered. There should be many options for a player to join a guild, we are all human and think differently and having a variety of guilds gives options to players. I think the concept is great, not saying it should be easy to gain a flagship but I know I am not the only facing this.

 

I dont really see the issue...

 

People should learn that if you want something then you should work for it, you ask for a guild ship yet you don't want to spend sometime gathering money for it or working to decorate it then don't complain...Iam sure that if they handed the Flagships to people then they would be crying about the lack of content and the lack of activity...

Edited September 12, 2014 by saremun

[Darth__Reaver]

People could dangle all the shiny carrots they want in front of me, and I'd never leave my two person guild. It's great, I'm happy, and I don't need 'something greater'. If people jump ship, because someone has a shiny carrot that the current guild doesn't have, then they're not worth having as members, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I agree I have people in my guild that dont want to leave my guild for some flagship we just continue playing with each other when we are retooling we talk make sure everyone is doing fine. We tend to help each other out IRL problems. It wierd I never had an enjoyment like this in an mmo before. I was always solo player my guild was for extra cargo space for alts. The someone decided they wanted to group pvp with me then I started making friends over this mmo which never happened to me be4 in WoW. But in WoW as well this game all i did was solo i never talked. So being GM of a small guild small but full of honest and loyal people feels more that the guild no longer belongs to me but to my guildies as well

[BrintoSFJ]

Doesn't make any sense, how can you expect same outcome for doing things with only 5 people which some other group doing with 20? Use common sense, if a work being done by 20 experienced people the outcome will be much better than a group of 5 people, it is simple logic. why is it so hard to get? by nature mmo are made for group play, the bigger the group the better outcome, why this needs to be changed? If you have small number of players in your guild, recruit more, if you don't want to recruit and keep it small then accept the consequences, we have accepted it, our guild is very small too, we accept that we can't compete with bigger guilds, why is so hard for some people to accept thsi simple situation?

[HelinCarnate]

I really do enjoy this strongholds, one of the best concepts I have seen in MMO. Unfortunately this is really killing smaller guilds or those looking to build up. I have lost at least 6 people only because we lacked a flagship. So is strongholds forcing to have one guild on the server? It really is not fair and killing the balance of what is offered. There should be many options for a player to join a guild, we are all human and think differently and having a variety of guilds gives options to players. I think the concept is great, not saying it should be easy to gain a flagship but I know I am not the only facing this.

 

So the leaches that wanted someone else to do all the work so they could benefit are gone from your guild...... how is this a bad thing again?

[PavSalco]

This what happens when you make your guild of random people. Don't care about them. Change the way you recruit. If you want to make a steady small guild get to know people, ask them to come to a voice chat. The probability of players leaving your guild will decrease.

[Mozepy]

Based on the content of the post I responded to, I doubt your assumption is accurate. Will be interesting to see if they refute my assertion.

 

Don't confuse a "hole" in the code with the game supporting a particular definition of "guild". It does no harm to not code an auto-disband, as long as the developers don't cater to "guilds" of less than 4 unique accounts as real guilds.

 

He didn't make an assumption, you did. He only stated a possibility. You also lied. The game requires four logged characters to form a guild. There is nothing that says those people have to intend to stay or that they have to be from accounts owned by a certain number of people. There is no "gaming" involved. It's the way the system works. A guild is allowed to exist with one person. If they didn't want it to be so it wouldn't.

[DarthTHC]

He didn't make an assumption, you did. He only stated a possibility. You also lied. The game requires four logged characters to form a guild. There is nothing that says those people have to intend to stay or that they have to be from accounts owned by a certain number of people. There is no "gaming" involved. It's the way the system works. A guild is allowed to exist with one person. If they didn't want it to be so it wouldn't.

 

The game requires four characters to be logged in at the same time, which means four unique accounts. If you don't understand why convincing people to group with you just to form a guild and then dropping is gaming the system, I can't help you any further.

 

I never said a guild of 1 account wasn't or shouldn't be allowed to exist. I did say that the developers should absolutely not do anything special to cater to players who've gamed the system in that manner.

[LordArtemis]

Well, I think the expectation, if one exists, that a small guild have the same chances and output of a large guild in this system would be silly at best. I also think that it is not an issue of fairness, it is an issue of obvious consequence.

 

I would not be against some kind of perk to smaller guilds if they decided to provide one, but personally I think that would serve to hurt large guilds in the long run. I think the idea would be to encourage larger guilds.

[LadyVix]

2 person guild? That's just pathetic. You are not a guild.

 

Could you please define what a guild is? What prerequesites should players meet in order to be considered a "legitimate" guild?

[DarthTHC]

Could you please define what a guild is? What prerequesites should players meet in order to be considered a "legitimate" guild?

 

The game enforces the definition of a guild via the mechanism by which guilds are created. This mechanism requires 4 unique accounts with the ability to muster whatever the fee is to create a guild (5k?) between them.

 

Prerequisites of a guild who can compete in guild conquest include:

 

1) 12 unique characters

2) 600,000 credits to obtain a guild bank, 1 tab

3) 50,000,000 credits to obtain a guild ship

4) Ability to generate ongoing credits necessary to relocate the ship

[DarthKartus]

Wow, so much controversy over a single post. In the spirit of full disclosure, we simply asked around the fleet for help to create the guild. We found a couple of people who were willing to lend a hand but who made it clear they didn't want to join the guild. So we created the guild and they dropped out. Our intent was to create a two-man guild in the first place because we almost always play together and we were usually the only people in the guild who logged in often. Perhaps over time we'll expand it but, for now, our guild is just fine as is.

[Andryah]

Well, I think the expectation, if one exists, that a small guild have the same chances and output of a large guild in this system would be silly at best. I also think that it is not an issue of fairness, it is an issue of obvious consequence.

 

I would not be against some kind of perk to smaller guilds if they decided to provide one, but personally I think that would serve to hurt large guilds in the long run. I think the idea would be to encourage larger guilds.

 

100% agree.

 

This thread, and others like it just reiterate that no matter what is added to the game, or how, or what the play mechanics are....... people will feel entitled to create one or more threads complaining about it and demanding nerfage by Bioware.

 

I have characters in a larger guild on one server and a small close knit guild on another server. The small close knit guild actually organized and had it's guild ship on day one and was active in Strongholds from the outset. The larger guild actually slow walked into Strongholds, precisely because it is a larger guild and it actually took time to assemble and organize those guild members who were interested in Strongholds. The larger guild did this deliberately as they wanted to deploy the guild into Strongholds in a manner that mitigated it being just the latest "flash in the pan" activity after a patch.

 

In my experience, (and setting aside clearly dormant guilds) small guilds are small by intention on the part of the guild leadership. There are advantages to being a small close knit guild and there are also liabilities. The same is true for large guilds (though the advantages and liabilities are generally different).

 

Bottom line... Strongholds does not kill small guilds... small guilds kill themselves in most cases by trying to be something other then what they actually implemented to begin with. It's on the guild to adjust and overcome challenges, NOT Bioware to dumb everything down to where 4 blind gerbils can achieve what an active, organized, and well planned guild (regardless of size) can achieve.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Andryah

[LadyVix]

The game enforces the definition of a guild via the mechanism by which guilds are created. This mechanism requires 4 unique accounts with the ability to muster whatever the fee is to create a guild (5k?) between them.

 

Prerequisites of a guild who can compete in guild conquest include:

 

1) 12 unique characters

2) 600,000 credits to obtain a guild bank, 1 tab

3) 50,000,000 credits to obtain a guild ship

4) Ability to generate ongoing credits necessary to relocate the ship

 

My question was more to inquire what that person defines as being a "legit" guild.

 

In our case, in SWTOR we currently have 3 remaining members, two of whom are active (everyday) players and one who plays only on the weekends. (One of our founding members move to another game, and another died) While we have both imperial and republic guilds in this game, we also have "affiliate" guilds in TERA, Rift, FFXIV and Guild Wars 2 where we all play together as well.

 

Although we're only technically three members, we have 35 characters, including twelve 55's. Both of our guilds have guild banks with two tabs and 3-4 mil credits each. We have multiple max level crafters/gatherers is all professions. More importantly, however, we have a group bond that is stronger than anything I've ever had in a large "legit" guild. We've all been real life friends for a long time. (27 year friendship with one, and a 56 year friendship with the other) We absolutely trust all members. There are no guild restrictions nor any rank restrictions. We play together and have fun, just as we do in real life.

 

With all those things considered, why should my guilds be considered any less "legit" than a guild full of people that barely know each other and have near zero trust built? If MMOs like SWTOR are about friendship and community, than I feel that we meet and exceed that definition.

 

I don't need a huge guild flagship to conquer planets, but a smaller guild ship similar in size to our personal starships where we can travel together would be awesome.

[ScarletBlaze]

The major problem in this thread are there have been a few people who have stated that they don't think small guilds should exits and there is where the conflict arises. I can tell you now we will not disband our guild because some people consider small guilds a waste of time. They are not.

 

We will recruit on the basis of what we expect in the guild. We have specific rules and we do not and will not just invite everyone that posts in general : Looking for guild.

 

My boyfriend and I run a small-medium guild and before the guild ships and conquest was even mentioned by BW we already had 4 bank tabs and was considering another one.

[Andryah]

I don't need a huge guild flagship to conquer planets, but a smaller guild ship similar in size to our personal starships where we can travel together would be awesome.

 

Keep in mind this is the initial release of Strongholds.. and they tuned the release version we have to be suitable for the most guilds and the most players at launch.

 

And from a lore and IP standpoint... um... NO.. you do actually need capital ships in the SW universe to siege and invade planets. Why? Because smaller ships cannot carry the weapons, equipment, and troops to do so. So, honestly... the large capital ship approach makes sense IMO.

 

That said, I expect in the future... if Strongholds remains popular with players... we may very well see other ship and invasion options in later patches that facilitate different play. Example: multiple small guilds or guild teams running in Corvette class ships (and maybe even transport ships) that can form 3 or 4 ship groups and work together to conquer a planet. Time will tell, but is would be a logical extension of the content in terms of scalability options as well as the lore and IP of the SW universe. Such an extension of content would also step into an easier approach at a later date to guild on guild ship battles as well at some point in the future.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Andryah

[Foambreaker]

Not only that, but if your guild isn't large enough or rich enough to buy the ship, the individuals get no bonuses for objectives, so earning points requires they expend twice as much effort for half the rewards.

 

Yes, thanks I forgot about that, so overall it is a major screwing of small guilds.

[Foambreaker]

Explain to me how an RP guild would find grinding Conquest points important? This is a serious question -- I'm not trying to troll you.

 

If a guild was able to RP before 2.9, they can keep doing the same thing they were before.

 

If an RP guild was dissatisfied with what the game offered them, how on Earth would "do lots of warzones, grind flashpoints, do lowbie heroics and craft supplies" make them happy?

 

I cannot remotely see how Conquests should be balanced around RP.

 

RPers still play the game, what do you think, they never do anything but chat??

 

So just like every other small guild they are forced to choose between game content and friends.

[Infernixx]

RPers still play the game, what do you think, they never do anything but chat??

 

So just like every other small guild they are forced to choose between game content and friends.

 

I don't see how RPers would be attracted to Conquest content in the first place.

[Foambreaker]

I don't see how RPers would be attracted to Conquest content in the first place.

 

Tell me if you are trolling of just that out of touch with what RP is about?

[Kourage]

Maybe they like small guilds and don't want to deal with all the drama and fighting that happens in large guilds. Don't tell me they don't I was in large guilds on SWG and all they did was fight or create drama so never again will I join a large guild.

 

 

Then don't cry about strongholds.

[BleederBIWS]

I'm in a fairly small guild. We started it back when the game launched with about 16 players. It grew to a maximum of 27. Then people stopped playing, and it was all but two of us left. It was great! We would join some pugs from time to time, and run into other like minded players. We would invite them into our little guild of just the two of us, and grow to 3.

 

Since strongholds; however, we have gained another 12 players because they don't like the MASSIVE guilds they were in. Now we are a very active guild of roughly 18 players. We have all got to know each other, and it is great.

 

I wouldn't want this any other way. We do have the Coruscant stronghold, and have a goal for that guild flagship. It is more difficult being that there is only 18 of us contributing (some free 2 play), but that is a challenge we have all accepted.

 

Large guilds aren't for everyone, and neither are small ones. Stating large guilds are better is simply inaccurate.

 

We are a small guild, but we can play with the big boys!

Edited September 12, 2014 by BleederBIWS

[ArielaKnight]

Then don't cry about strongholds.

 

Do you even read posts? Let me help you since you don't seem to understand Reading 101.

 

First post:

 

I disagree with you. Small guilds should not be killed. Some of them are actually not complaining. I know the one I am has yet to complain (1) about the price of guildships (2) price of strongholds (and we have one ) (3) Conquests. We enjoy our small-medium guild and we do recruit but we don't recruit just to recruit. The guild I am in has rules and in the 2-3 years that we have had this guild (since launch) we have had no drama or power plays. We work together as a team, and that is something you don't always find.

 

I been in large guilds and every time I logged in there was someone arguing or fighting over something. It got to the point that I had to leave and I played the rest of my time on SWG without a guild as I was not about to deal with that in a game.

 

 

See any complaining there about flaghships? Nope.

 

Second post:

 

Maybe they like small guilds and don't want to deal with all the drama and fighting that happens in large guilds. Don't tell me they don't I was in large guilds on SWG and all they did was fight or create drama so never again will I join a large guild.

 

 

Any complaining about flagships? Nope.

 

3rd post:

 

Yes it is possible to happen in small guilds but the one I have been in since launch it hasn't. I base my opinion on what I have experienced and for me the large guild I was in (on SWG) was constantly filled with drama and fighting and I wasn't going to join another guild because of it but I found the guild I was in and it wasn't huge (20-40 members I think) and yet they are courteous, helpful, they care about me and no fighting and drama so from my experience I rather be in a small guild like that than a large one.

 

Any complaining about flagships: Nope.

 

And on the offhand chance you are talking about a guild stronghold , the guild I am in has one in Coruscant and it is halfway finished. We are taking our time to make it look nice so why in the world would I complain about a guild stronghold when we have one.

 

 

So your comment was unnecessary as I have not once complained about flagships. You are just creating drama and problems and I will not respond to any more of your posts since you have proven you have no knowledge of anything anyone posts.

[Lunafox]

Based on the content of the post I responded to, I doubt your assumption is accurate. Will be interesting to see if they refute my assertion.

 

Don't confuse a "hole" in the code with the game supporting a particular definition of "guild". It does no harm to not code an auto-disband, as long as the developers don't cater to "guilds" of less than 4 unique accounts as real guilds.

 

It seems you'd like some expansion. Right now, I pay for three subs for my husband and (at one point I was paying for five subs, when my son and our friend played, but they quit). I've been playing since before launch, my family and friend since launch. We have 23 characters in the guild so far. As we keep playing, more of our alts will be in the guild. Considering, that we had four people to start our guild, the fee for the guild registrar, and the fact that we pay to play this game, we're a guild. We're not a grand guild with multitudes of players and activities, but we're happy, and that's a good deal more than many others will say.

 

I don't ask any special favours for our small guild, and am simply stating, that we're happy with this latest update. Even though we could buy a guild ship, we have no plans to do so.

[theUndead]

100% agree.

 

This thread, and others like it just reiterate that no matter what is added to the game, or how, or what the play mechanics are....... people will feel entitled to create one or more threads complaining about it and demanding nerfage by Bioware.

 

I have characters in a larger guild on one server and a small close knit guild on another server. The small close knit guild actually organized and had it's guild ship on day one and was active in Strongholds from the outset. The larger guild actually slow walked into Strongholds, precisely because it is a larger guild and it actually took time to assemble and organize those guild members who were interested in Strongholds. The larger guild did this deliberately as they wanted to deploy the guild into Strongholds in a manner that mitigated it being just the latest "flash in the pan" activity after a patch.

 

In my experience, (and setting aside clearly dormant guilds) small guilds are small by intention on the part of the guild leadership. There are advantages to being a small close knit guild and there are also liabilities. The same is true for large guilds (though the advantages and liabilities are generally different).

 

Bottom line... Strongholds does not kill small guilds... small guilds kill themselves in most cases by trying to be something other then what they actually implemented to begin with. It's on the guild to adjust and overcome challenges, NOT Bioware to dumb everything down to where 4 blind gerbils can achieve what an active, organized, and well planned guild (regardless of size) can achieve.

 

The talks about your death were exaggerated then. Welcome back. By the way, why no more display pic?