The Scam/Not a Scam debate storyline

[Reno_Tarshil]

I dont want to hear a scum apologist, who is probably doing this sh*t on the GTN. Get out.

 

PS: It is a scam if its so easy to get people confused and make them lose their money.

I dont know what is ur definition of scam, and honestly, I dont *********** care.

 

It's not a scam, nor have I ever benefitted from other's mistakes.

 

It's not a scam and bioware cannot say it's one because they cannot prove it to be, since a player can list any item for any price they desire, just like any buyer has the option of buying or not buying said item.

 

Not a scam.

[ScarletBlaze]

The people in this thread who are defending this behavior on the GTN are the same people who are doing the scam.

There are at least 2 people in my guild who have over 100 million credits, and are doing exactly the same thing - pricing their items so people can get confused from the decimals.

It is a scam, and if you defend it that means you are benefiting from it. Simply, you are a scum.

Bye.

 

Explain how pricing something is scamming:

 

Example:

 

10 Universal PreFab Mk-3 Unit Price 60k Total Price 600k

20 Universal PreFab Mk-2 Unit Price 50k Total Price 1,000,000 (1m)

 

Where is the scam in that?

[idnewton]

pricing their items so people can get confused from the decimals

Also, by the way, welcome to real life. A lot of the profit made in the real world is made off careless people making assumptions. If you haven't figured that out yet, it's because you're one of them.

[LyraineAlei]

I am not done with the topic until there is a fix. I will bring this thread/subject to BW attention every time I can.

Any other questions?

 

But the same question can go back to you - if you believe that it is not a scam, and you are done with this thread, the hell are you doing here? The scam is on place, you are obviously happy with it, so why reply?

 

Look at the first post in this thread. That is why I am here. This is my thread. My thread that BioWare chose to merge all the other threads into.

 

Now, I'm going to ask for this thread to be locked because there is nothing left to discuss. Nothing. BioWare responded. Read it. Hope for a remedy to speed clicking people who don't want to use all of their tools because they are in a hurry. Let. It. Go.

[LordArtemis]

It doesnt matter whether it is a scam or not. Sellers are trying to obviously rip people off. No rule against that, buyer beware and all that, but that is what it is.

 

Sellers know what they are doing.

 

It still astounds me that buyers AND sellers refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

 

If I was a buyer and this happened to me, I would say "that a bummer, I fell for it, my fault. I'll be more careful next time".

 

If I was a seller and posted items for sale like this I would say "hey, its a free market, sure it's dishonorable but all is fair in business. It is not personal. Just trying to make a buck."

 

I wouldn't hide behind words like "scam" and platitudes like "its your fault if you fall for it.".

Edited November 17, 2014 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

The list, reposted for newcomers to the thread. The list remains unchanged at this point.

 

IMO Buyers and Sellers have to both take responsibility for their behavior. Since most are unwilling to do that, this argument continues despite the efforts of some folks to just discuss the merits of the suggestions as QoL improvements for the GTN.

 

Here are most of the non-punitive suggestions made during the discussion.

 

1) The ability to ignore a character name on the GTN, so the items sold by that character are not shown in searches.

2) The ability to place a red flag on sellers you do not like, green flag on ones you prefer, and a sort function to move red flags to the bottom of a search, green flags to the top. Only you would see the flags you apply.

3) Remove the ability for the system to display fractional currency in the "price per unit" field.

4) Have the formatting right justified instead of left justified.

5) Have the ignore list also apply to the GTN.

6) Add a price per unit option for posting items for sale.

7) Default the GTN to sorting by lowest price first, or lowest per unit price.

8) Larger text for the price display.

9) Add a toggle to remove the display of fractional currency in the "price per item" field.

10) Line up all prices on the decimal, and display .00 for non fractional amounts.

11) Option to apply a maximum buyout price threshold to warn players if they exceed set amount in the purchase.

12) Optional to apply a maximum per item price threshold to warn players if they exceed set amount in the purchase.

 

 

I support 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10. I really like 2, 6 and 9. 6 seems to be the most popular one so far. I don't see the harm in 11 and 12, so they are included for folks to discuss, though I would not rate it as one of my favorite in the list.

[idnewton]

It doesnt matter whether it is a scam or not. Sellers are trying to obviously rip people off. No rule against that, buyer beware and all that, but that is what it is.

 

Sellers know what they are doing.

 

It still astounds me that buyers AND sellers refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

 

If I was a buyer and this happened to me, I would say "that a bummer, I fell for it, my fault. I'll be more careful next time".

 

If I was a seller and posted items for sale like this I would say "hey, its a free market, sure it's dishonorable but all is fair in business. It is not personal. Just trying to make a buck."

 

I wouldn't hide behind words like "scam" and platitudes like "its your fault if you fall for it.".

 

Maybe, but there's something you're failing to consider:

 

Not everyone involved in the thread discussion belongs to one of the two groups. I've never been guilty of this, nor have I ever been a victim of this. I just think people should look after themselves and stop begging Bioware to be careful for them.

[LordArtemis]

Not everyone involved in the thread discussion belongs to one of the two groups.

 

Fair enough.

Edited November 17, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Heal-To-Full]

How do they know if someone actually just wants to sell for a certain amount? You're really asking them to police the GTN on every single server looking for "scams"?

They shouldn't, but they should check out a few "players" doing it en masse across multiple servers using robots and doing nothing else in the game. These accounts should be looked into for their part in gold selling, because that's a major driver behind this "scam/not a scam".

 

 

However, that does not mean it should be against the rules.

However, botting is - these thousands of listings aren't put up by hand every 48 hours on schedule.

 

There are a few human players copying this by hand, once that's verified, they don't appear to be breaking the TOS. Yeah, they're scum and whatnot, but they're not the core problem, they're not behind current complete flooding of the GTN with these listings across all servers.

It's a real-life business, with real dollars, bank transactions, paid coders and paid operators, not a game tactic.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[Vodamin]

 

Even if Bioware could define the offense accurately, we as a community fully understand how short-staffed Bioware is already. You're really asking them to police the GTN on every single server looking for "scams"? LMAO.

 

 

No, I am not asking them to police the GTN. LMAO

I am asking them to remove the decimals from the price of a single item when the seller is putting a stack of them.

There you have it, a simple fix.

Understand now? LMAO

Edited November 17, 2014 by Vodamin

[Reno_Tarshil]

They shouldn't, but they should check out a few "players" doing it en masse across multiple servers using robots and doing nothing else in the game. These accounts should be looked into for their part in gold selling, because that's a major driver behind this "scam/not a scam".

 

However, botting is - these thousands of listings aren't put up by hand every 48 hours on schedule.

 

There are a few human players copying this by hand, once that's verified, they don't appear to be breaking the TOS. Yeah, they're scum and whatnot, but they're not the core problem, they're not behind current complete flooding of the GTN with these listings across all servers.

It's a real-life business, with real dollars, bank transactions, paid coders and paid operators, not a game tactic.

 

But they can't prove that at all.

[Reno_Tarshil]

No, I am not asking them to police the GTN. LMAO

I am asking them to remove the decimals from the price of a single item when the seller is putting a stack of them.

There you have it, a simple fix.

Understand now? LMAO

 

You should have started with that instead of the insults and personal attacks with those who disagree with you.

[idnewton]

But they can't prove that at all.

 

Yeah... seems to be a common pattern that anything people dislike or can't explain, it must be the source of the credit spammer's money. Now, could it be? Yeah. But is it? No, probably not. Can it be proven? Definitely not.

 

As stated before, it's a "business" (sorta?). Why would they risk their business by getting all their money from players' carelessness? That's a pretty stupid business plan even for the gold spammer idiots.

[idnewton]

You should have started with that instead of the insults and personal attacks with those who disagree with you.

 

Or he should have simply not posted at all since that point has been brought up multiple times and agreed with multiple times. If that was his entire point, why is he even posting here?

[Reno_Tarshil]

Yeah... seems to be a common pattern that anything people dislike or can't explain, it must be the source of the credit spammer's money. Now, could it be? Yeah. But is it? No, probably not. Can it be proven? Definitely not.

 

As stated before, it's a "business" (sorta?). Why would they risk their business by getting all their money from players' carelessness? That's a pretty stupid business plan even for the gold spammer idiots.

 

What I mean is Bioware said they cannot prove it themselves. Because how would they know, when they give players the freedom to price anything they want at any price they want.

[idnewton]

What I mean is Bioware said they cannot prove it themselves. Because how would they know, when they give players the freedom to price anything they want at any price they want.

 

Oh no, I agree with you, that's what I've been saying the entire time. That's what Bioware themselves said. I just quoted your post since it was a proper segue into my comment, but my disagreement was not directed at you.

Edited November 17, 2014 by idnewton

[Reno_Tarshil]

Oh no, I agree with you, that's what I've been saying the entire time. That's what Bioware themselves said. I just quoted your post since it was a proper segue into my comment, but my disagreement was not directed at you.

 

Gotcha.

[Heal-To-Full]

But they can't prove that at all.

Credit trading and botting? They definitely can. They have full access to the logs, they can check if someone's running a robot, they can verify a transaction pattern consistent with gold selling. All they need to do is take a look at a particular player.

 

gold spammer idiots.

They're making quite a bit of dough off video games with very little fully automated effort. Last time I checked, that wasn't the clinical definition of an idiot.

It's a pretty sizable industry, and they'll use chest farming bots, stolen accounts, automated listings, anything, whichever offers the most bang for the buck.

 

Yeah... seems to be a common pattern that anything people dislike or can't explain, it must be the source of the credit spammer's money.

No. This is something I can explain.

 

I kept track of the exact players doing that, on two different servers, using the friend list that lets you know when someone comes alive. Multiple characters. Spotted them by the GTN, checked their legacy achievements.

No achievements at all except for leaving the starter world and the amount of credits. No progress over time. Zilch, all they ever do in the game is list items for carefully calculated amounts.

 

So why would one pay for a subscription if they're not going to play the game, if all they're going to do is reach level 10, go to the fleet, and relist the same items on the GTN, and do so for months?

 

I don't like to speculate. I don't know if the same accounts also trade credits to the customers, if it's their main source of income, if they even are credit sellers themselves or separate farmers who then sell credits wholesale.

 

But I know credits are bought and sold - I know the websites, I know there is a wholesale gold market, not just an end user market. I know that at least many of these GTN listings are not made by humans, there are unmistakable signs of robot activity, like exact timing over weeks, and these signs are there. I know this is one of the methods used in WoW to generate gold for sale. I know at least some of the accounts used for that in SWTOR are dedicated, they've never done anything else in the game.

 

This is the extent what I know for a fact. Nothing else. As for the rest - if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, maybe it's a dodo, but my first guess will be duck.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[thewitchdoctor]

I dont want to hear a scum apologist, who is probably doing this sh*t on the GTN. Get out.

 

Wow. Settle down, Francis.

[LordArtemis]

In the end, IMO, it doesn't matter who is at fault here. There is plenty of blame on both sides IMO.

 

All that matters is if there is any QoL merit in the suggestions proposed, either on the list I compiled or any other ideas folks have posted to improve the GTN.

 

So far I think we have a pretty good consensus, at least in the thread lately, as to what options folks seem to prefer, if any.

[LyraineAlei]

And we have also beaten this horse to death, the Sith Inquisitors have brought it back to beat again. And now I don't think there is anything left to add.

 

Maybe a few other QoL ideas, but nothing else is left.

[LordArtemis]

And we have also beaten this horse to death, the Sith Inquisitors have brought it back to beat again. And now I don't think there is anything left to add.

 

Maybe a few other QoL ideas, but nothing else is left.

 

Yes, I think that most have covered the bases. Now it is left in Biowares hands to decide if any merit exists to make a change.

 

Since this appears to be the end of the thread, I will post the list one last time in case it is resurrected for some reason.

 

The list, reposted for newcomers to the thread. The list remains unchanged at this point.

 

IMO Buyers and Sellers have to both take responsibility for their behavior. Since most are unwilling to do that, this argument continues despite the efforts of some folks to just discuss the merits of the suggestions as QoL improvements for the GTN.

 

Here are most of the non-punitive suggestions made during the discussion.

 

1) The ability to ignore a character name on the GTN, so the items sold by that character are not shown in searches.

2) The ability to place a red flag on sellers you do not like, green flag on ones you prefer, and a sort function to move red flags to the bottom of a search, green flags to the top. Only you would see the flags you apply.

3) Remove the ability for the system to display fractional currency in the "price per unit" field.

4) Have the formatting right justified instead of left justified.

5) Have the ignore list also apply to the GTN.

6) Add a price per unit option for posting items for sale.

7) Default the GTN to sorting by lowest price first, or lowest per unit price.

8) Larger text for the price display.

9) Add a toggle to remove the display of fractional currency in the "price per item" field.

10) Line up all prices on the decimal, and display .00 for non fractional amounts.

11) Option to apply a maximum buyout price threshold to warn players if they exceed set amount in the purchase.

12) Optional to apply a maximum per item price threshold to warn players if they exceed set amount in the purchase.

 

 

I support 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10. I really like 2, 6 and 9. 6 seems to be the most popular one so far. I don't see the harm in 11 and 12, so they are included for folks to discuss, though I would not rate it as one of my favorite in the list.

Edited November 22, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Silvercell]

I know most people are sick of this topic but I need to vent so if you are reading this topic and don't want to hear my complaints stop reading now.

 

I just lost over 3 million credits that I have been saving up for ages crafting stuff. I have no doubt the player that I accidently bought the material off is having a great laugh at the idiot that has just made him 3 million richer.

 

I am absolutely upset. I have been looking forward to unlocking some of my first legacy perks and was trying to get to ten million so I could do this, that seems a very long way off now.

 

What this type of 'fun' will do is discourage honest ordinary players like me from bothering making the effort. I feel as if I was robbed and don't want to be in a place where the attitude is...tough luck, get over it. To me this is a crime, I have spent many long hours building my character and her crafting level to the point I could make and sell nice items for a reasonable price.

 

I was so excited to see my balance going up and now ...all gone.

[Papazmurf]

How long have you been saving again? 3 mil isn't that much and ca likely be made back in a day or two doing all the dailies if you really wanted to.

 

That being said. I agree that it sucks and it's still an issue. At the end of the day you did make a mistake, but the systems that are being used currently could be better to prevent players from making said mistakes.

[Silvercell]

Three million is an absolute fortune for me. I don't do dailies. I craft and level my girls. That's my fun, well it was my fun.