"Good" Accuracy

[RatPoison]

Numbers. End-of-match rankings.

 

I don't put much stock into these things, particularly in domination matches.

 

At the end of the match, you know whether you did well or not. Besides, more important than comparing yourself to other pilots is whether or not you and your team--and the opposing team--had fun.

 

To each their own. For some folks the comparison or rather the competition of pushing the statistical extremes is "fun".

 

I've known a handful of pilots who didn't care if they won or lost, so long as they were deadliest flier in the match; that was how they had fun. Personally, I'd much rather have the 'W' and will sacrifice my stats and fly a less fun ship for victories when warranted because helping secure a W is my goal and the best thing I can do for my fellow fliers.

[tommmsunb]

Numbers. End-of-match rankings.

 

I don't put much stock into these things, particularly in domination matches.

 

At the end of the match, you know whether you did well or not. Besides, more important than comparing yourself to other pilots is whether or not you and your team--and the opposing team--had fun.

 

This is very untrue for Scout pilots, Scouts should not be sitting under nodes being useless. In a class heavily oriented on DPS, your DPS and your accuracy are very important statistics.

 

I know I'm not having a good match if I don't get my 30k medal before the clock says 11:30 minutes for instance. (Really its more 2:30 minutes into the game (~200 DPS), this DPS doesn't usually hold for the whole match because sooner or later they notice me. If my opening is particularly good I'll have it when the clock says 12 minutes.

(About 270DPS) (The depending factor is usually how many pods I can get to hit.)

It's not about farming damage, it's about doing my role and not stealing kills while doing it.

Basically if you have high kills but low damage it doesn't mean you're good, it means you can last hit.

Edited September 10, 2014 by tommmsunb

[Fractalsponge]

Basically if you have high kills but low damage it doesn't mean you're good, it means you can last hit.

 

I absolutely disagree with this. You win by putting the enemy ships down as quickly as possible. If you have the skill to keep many targets in play and pick them off efficiently when they're vulnerable, then I think that's a more valuable contribution than solo killing enemy ships in sequence. I'd rather have my team take "my" kill than wasting time getting that final shot on a target that is going full evasive because it's one hit away from respawn.

 

I look at scoreboards the other way - if someone has low kills and high damage then they probably could've been better using their time in the match (exceptions are mine clearing, drone/mine assists while node defending, etc.).

[StrixHiraeth]

This is very untrue for Scout pilots, Scouts should not be sitting under nodes being useless. In a class heavily oriented on DPS, your DPS and your accuracy are very important statistics.

 

Well... since it's my personal opinion, it's true for THIS scout pilot. I never suggested that scouts should be "sitting under nodes being useless". I just said I don't put much stock in the end-of-match rankings and suggested that you (that's you in the general sense) know at the end of the match whether you did well or poorly without needing to be told that by numbers.

 

Here's an example... a few nights ago, in a domination match, I destroyed 12 defense turrets and captured 5 satellites (two of which we ended up losing). Died twice, killed a few ships that were keeping me from capping. I was still on the bottom of the ranking list at the end of the match. However, I knew that my actions were definitely instrumental in our team winning the match. I knew I did well, even though a brief glance at the rankings might suggest otherwise.

 

Also, I disagree that my scout MUST be doing X amount of damage in a domination match. Scouts, to me, are also about agility and the ability to out-maneuver your opponent. There have been many times when I have held a satellite by flying circles around it when upwards of 3 ships are trying to shoot me down. I'm not doing any damage, but I'm keeping a node AND keeping half the enemy team tied up trying to peel me off the satellite. Don't know about you, but I think that's pretty useful in a domination match.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Ymris

[Ryuku-sama]

Well... since it's my personal opinion, it's true for THIS scout pilot. I never suggested that scouts should be "sitting under nodes being useless". I just said I don't put much stock in the end-of-match rankings and suggested that you (that's you in the general sense) know at the end of the match whether you did well or poorly without needing to be told that by numbers.

 

Here's an example... a few nights ago, in a domination match, I destroyed 12 defense turrets and captured 5 satellites (two of which we ended up losing). Died twice, killed a few ships that were keeping me from capping. I was still on the bottom of the ranking list at the end of the match. However, I knew that my actions were definitely instrumental in our team winning the match. I knew I did well, even though a brief glance at the rankings might suggest otherwise.

 

Also, I disagree that my scout MUST be doing X amount of damage in a domination match. Scouts, to me, are also about agility and the ability to out-maneuver your opponent. There have been many times when I have held a satellite by flying circles around it when upwards of 3 ships are trying to shoot me down. I'm not doing any damage, but I'm keeping a node AND keeping half the enemy team tied up trying to peel me off the satellite. Don't know about you, but I think that's pretty useful in a domination match.

 

You're right. But accuracy doesn't mean that. Acuracy simply correlate how much one know and has mastered his load out (skill not upgrades). Basicly simply from looking up my accuracy scores, I can say I'm far from being an efficient gunship whle I'm between the best LLC and HLC users. It doesn't correlate to how instrumental one was to his team victory.

[StrixHiraeth]

You're right. But accuracy doesn't mean that. Acuracy simply correlate how much one know and has mastered his load out (skill not upgrades). Basicly simply from looking up my accuracy scores, I can say I'm far from being an efficient gunship whle I'm between the best LLC and HLC users. It doesn't correlate to how instrumental one was to his team victory.

 

Well said. I guess what I'm trying to say is, in my opinion, "good accuracy" is whatever is good enough to get the job done. Of course we all want to be more proficient with our weapons, and I don't mean to imply there's anything wrong with that.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Ymris

[Ryuku-sama]

Well said. I guess what I'm trying to say is, in my opinion, "good accuracy" is whatever is good enough to get the job done. Of course we all want to be more proficient with our weapons, and I don't mean to imply there's anything wrong with that.

 

Yup. And these accuracy numbers change with not only the weapon but the whole loadout. a quad'n'pods without TT will have lower accuracy than a quad'n'pods with TT simply because they have a TTK much lower.

[tommmsunb]

Well... since it's my personal opinion, it's true for THIS scout pilot. I never suggested that scouts should be "sitting under nodes being useless". I just said I don't put much stock in the end-of-match rankings and suggested that you (that's you in the general sense) know at the end of the match whether you did well or poorly without needing to be told that by numbers.

 

Here's an example... a few nights ago, in a domination match, I destroyed 12 defense turrets and captured 5 satellites (two of which we ended up losing). Died twice, killed a few ships that were keeping me from capping. I was still on the bottom of the ranking list at the end of the match. However, I knew that my actions were definitely instrumental in our team winning the match. I knew I did well, even though a brief glance at the rankings might suggest otherwise.

 

Also, I disagree that my scout MUST be doing X amount of damage in a domination match. Scouts, to me, are also about agility and the ability to out-maneuver your opponent. There have been many times when I have held a satellite by flying circles around it when upwards of 3 ships are trying to shoot me down. I'm not doing any damage, but I'm keeping a node AND keeping half the enemy team tied up trying to peel me off the satellite. Don't know about you, but I think that's pretty useful in a domination match.

 

If you're flying circles around a node you're just delaying the inevitable. You might as well pop a few of them than waste your time. If you're going to fly like that go fly a bomber.

[tommmsunb]

Yup. And these accuracy numbers change with not only the weapon but the whole loadout. a quad'n'pods without TT will have lower accuracy than a quad'n'pods with TT simply because they have a TTK much lower.

 

TTK stands for time to kill, it doesn't have anything to do with accuracy, more accurate players will have lower TTK.

[nyghtrunner]

Numbers. End-of-match rankings.

 

I don't put much stock into these things, particularly in domination matches.

 

At the end of the match, you know whether you did well or not. Besides, more important than comparing yourself to other pilots is whether or not you and your team--and the opposing team--had fun.

For the most part, I agree with this. As I said, I was really just asking because I've noticed such a spike in my Acc numbers recently as a trend, which got me curious as to what some of the aces thought of as good accuracy numbers.

 

But illustrative of your point, I had a TDM match a week or maybe 2 ago, where I had 25 kills, 8 assists, 3 deaths, 110k damage, and 60% accuracy. Normally, I would be happy with a personal performance like that, but we lost 41-40. And rather than be happy with my performance, I was mad at myself because I didn't do more to help us get the win. I remembered the Retro suicide, and wondered how many kills that cost our side (not to mention thinking about that 1 death being the difference in having at least a tie). Or if I had been slightly more aggressive here or there. Or a little faster to get to the guys chasing down my mates. I was anything but happy with my performance, because we lost.

[nyghtrunner]

If you're flying circles around a node you're just delaying the inevitable. You might as well pop a few of them than waste your time. If you're going to fly like that go fly a bomber.

While I understand and usually agree with you here, it can and has made a difference to turtle up and fly rings avoiding enemies. If they don't have the satellite, you're keeping them from getting points every second you're alive, which is more important than popping a couple on a largely doomed satellite. If you're team still has "control", you're gaining 1 point for every second you're alive.

 

You're also taking focus away from the other 2 satellites for as long as it takes for them to kill you and cap. If you stay alive for 30 seconds and get 30 points for your team in that situation, and the rest of your team takes one of their satellites while you've got 4 of them locked up at your satellite as a 4 v 1, that's a massive win, because there's no way you can get that kind of point differential by peeling to kill 1 or 2 of them. Even if you somehow manage to slice through 30 of them to make up the points, you won't do it in 30s. They can't spawn and get to a satellite that fast.

 

So while I agree that it's not an ideal situation to ring a satellite, I think it's only wasteful if you're trying to wrestle control of the satellite from them, because then they get a point for every second you piddle around, and you're not keeping them away from another objective.

[Ryuku-sama]

TTK stands for time to kill, it doesn't have anything to do with accuracy, more accurate players will have lower TTK.

 

You'll take more time killing your opponent with a less bursty build. Right?

 

The lower sample + catching your target unaware boost your accuracy with a burst build over a sustained build. That's simply what I wrote.

[tommmsunb]

While I understand and usually agree with you here, it can and has made a difference to turtle up and fly rings avoiding enemies. If they don't have the satellite, you're keeping them from getting points every second you're alive, which is more important than popping a couple on a largely doomed satellite. If you're team still has "control", you're gaining 1 point for every second you're alive.

 

You're also taking focus away from the other 2 satellites for as long as it takes for them to kill you and cap. If you stay alive for 30 seconds and get 30 points for your team in that situation, and the rest of your team takes one of their satellites while you've got 4 of them locked up at your satellite as a 4 v 1, that's a massive win, because there's no way you can get that kind of point differential by peeling to kill 1 or 2 of them. Even if you somehow manage to slice through 30 of them to make up the points, you won't do it in 30s. They can't spawn and get to a satellite that fast.

 

So while I agree that it's not an ideal situation to ring a satellite, I think it's only wasteful if you're trying to wrestle control of the satellite from them, because then they get a point for every second you piddle around, and you're not keeping them away from another objective.

 

That strat will only work against bad players. A good player will kill a scout who's sat hugging in no time flat. This is just entirely wrong. Basing your strategy on the assumption that your enemy is bad is just really dumb.

Edited September 10, 2014 by tommmsunb

[nyghtrunner]

That strat will only work against bad players. A good player will kill a scout who's sat hugging in no time flat. This is just entirely wrong. Basing your strategy on the assumption that your enemy is bad is just really dumb.

And now I remember you. Thanks for jogging my memory.

 

/discussion

[Fractalsponge]

I don't know how weaving around a sat gets a scout killed slower than fighting attackers in the open. You can pincer a sat humper but it'd definitely be faster to hose it down and kill it without LOS obstructions. It's annoying as hell when a scout dances around the satellite projections, but it's a pretty solid strat when a node is getting zerged.

[StrixHiraeth]

If you're flying circles around a node you're just delaying the inevitable. You might as well pop a few of them than waste your time. If you're going to fly like that go fly a bomber.

 

Erm... I've won quite a number of domination matches by doing exactly that. I'm not delaying the inevitable by keeping a node, I'm building points for my team. Not to mention, that when the rest of my team shows up at the node I'm protecting, they can easily pick off my pursuers. Kills alone don't win domination matches, I doubt I'll be convinced otherwise.

 

The difference between me being in a scout and being in a bomber is that in my scout, they have a much harder time actually hitting me.

 

That strat will only work against bad players. A good player will kill a scout who's sat hugging in no time flat. This is just entirely wrong. Basing your strategy on the assumption that your enemy is bad is just really dumb.

 

My strategy changes with situation. If I try one thing and it doesn't work, I try something else.

 

I speak from experience--what I have done has worked for me quite a bit, regardless of what you have to say about it. Maybe it's the server I'm on, maybe it only works against "bad" players, but you can't argue with what has already happened.

 

To keep this talk on-topic, I ran a few matches this afternoon. On my quad/cluster Sting, my hit % seems to be around 40%. On my Blackbolt with laser cannons and pods and TT, it's about 30%. Seems I need to keep practicing!

Edited September 10, 2014 by Ymris

[StrixHiraeth]

I don't know how weaving around a sat gets a scout killed slower than fighting attackers in the open. You can pincer a sat humper but it'd definitely be faster to hose it down and kill it without LOS obstructions. It's annoying as hell when a scout dances around the satellite projections, but it's a pretty solid strat when a node is getting zerged.

 

Satellite humping is annoying, I agree. A satellite is an object which I can use evasive maneuvering to keep between myself and my attackers. Anytime I can put something between me and missile locks or gunship rails, it helps keep me alive.

 

The trick is, to move unpredictably--don't just keep circling in the same direction.

 

I do want to point out that I'm not suggesting that satellite humping is a strategy I favor or encourage--just one that works at times. It really depends on your team and the opposing team, and what's going on at the time. Scout maneuverability makes them perfectly suited to things like evasive satellite humping, moreso than other ships.

 

Speaking of ships and maneuverability, hit % doesn't seem to me like a static number. If you're flying against pilots like me, who use engine-heavy scouts and favor evasive flying and chases through obstacle-dense areas over jousting or fighting in the open, your hit % will probably be lower. If you are fighting a lot of bombers, who have an easier time mitigating damage, your hit % will probably be higher.

 

I'm assuming that the hit percentages suggested earlier in the thread as acceptable have the understood disclaimer that they are an average, and not something that's going to happen every match.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Ymris

[nyghtrunner]

I'm assuming that the hit percentages suggested earlier in the thread as acceptable have the understood disclaimer that they are an average, and not something that's going to happen every match.

I went into the OP thinking this. There will always be outlier matches for just about everything, but I was definitely thinking about an average hit %.

 

Hit % for any single match can be an anomaly, so I was definitely thinking more about trends.

[Drakkolich]

I see were having the scouts circling nodes to defend satelites is useless argument again.

 

For those arguing that scouts have no place being evasive on a satelite to stall longer I submit this scenario.

 

Imagine you as a scout are solo defending a node, and you see 2 attackers coming. For this experiment they will not only be scouts of the exact same build as you, they are you. Is anyone really going to tell me its better to fight 2 of yourself then to just be evasive until teammates have to respond or you stall atleast long enough to get a few more points?

 

Now as for the argument that this only works against lesser players, that seems really silly to me. As if 2 lesser players engaged me I would just kill them because I'm the better player. You only need to be evasive if you are outskilled or outnumbered.

 

Now Tomm I get it you like doing damage and that is what scouts do best is a ton of dps, but please stop telling everyone that in all circumstances only damage matters. Because as far as winning the most possibles games is considered it just isn't. I win way more games sitting on top of my gunship teammates as a scout in deathmatch then I would just running around killing everything. Don't get me wrong that makes your stats awful and makes it seem like you didn't help the whole match on the scoreboard, it is however very useful toward winning the match.

 

This is just my opinion and I know you have yours that damage done and dps are the only things a scout contributes, I just think that there is more to a team game then just your damage done and dps even on a scout.

[StrixHiraeth]

Thank you, Drak. I feel validated now.

[RatPoison]

I don't know how weaving around a sat gets a scout killed slower than fighting attackers in the open. You can pincer a sat humper but it'd definitely be faster to hose it down and kill it without LOS obstructions. It's annoying as hell when a scout dances around the satellite projections, but it's a pretty solid strat when a node is getting zerged.

 

^ This and what Drak wrote.

 

Stopping a cap, or flying evasively around a sat to stall and delay is most certainly a useful tactic. If there were one thing that every new pilot should learn about domination, it should be the value of this tactic and staying close to sats that have no turrets.

 

I've had too many matches where I'm rushing to reinforce a sat to watch the last pilot there zoom away from the sat because they were dying or afraid of that. Boom... the sat gets capped and time and points are lost. Evasive sat humping is a good skill to have.

 

Hell, had a match last night where I was wondering where all my team was... well over half of it was at a sat chasing around one lowly Novadive For as sad as that was for my team, it was an effective move for the other team's pilot.