When did this begin ?

[Master-Nala]

So players have figured the best and only way to fight that behavior is to just roll need on anything that is non-gear that you might want.

 

This x 100. Everytime I do a Flashpoint, before even the first pull, I suggest that we do it this way for decorations, tokens (e.g. Manaan research data), etc. That way it's fair to everyone.

 

Effectively everyone rolling need removes any chance that someone will feel cheated. Everyone had an equal chance to get the item and if someone wanted to be sneaky there is nothing they can do because everyone else is rolling need as well.

 

I'm not sure what the OP is concerned about since this is simply the fairest to everyone.

[Jerba]

That could be the case for you but I assure you, you are most likely the only one who's ever hit need because of that.

By accident? Could be. Because someone misread what class the loot was for? Maybe. But choosing need because it seems like the lesser of two evils definitely doesn't enter the Top 500 of reasons why people hit need.

It can't be that rare. Maybe it is just because the German translation of "greed" has a more negative connotation than the English word, not sure. And I was only talking about new players, I don't think anyone above level 30 would offer that as an explanation. I expect level 55 players to know how looting works and that the only way for them to learn to not greed is by kicking them from the group.

 

the "greed" option is pointless. "need" or "pass" is all that is required

I could live with that, as long as the "pass" option would still work like the "greed" option. In other words, if everyone hit "pass", a random player would still get it, and the item would not stay in the corpse/chest for the first person to loot it.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Jerba

[CmdrShpd]

That could be the case for you but I assure you, you are most likely the only one who's ever hit need because of that.

Not true. I also did the same thing when I first started playing this game. This was my first MMO and thus I had literally never encountered the Need/Greed system before, and I reacted very similarly to the previous person.

[Infernixx]

The universal use of Need prevents someone from waiting for the other 3 to hit Greed and then hitting Need.

 

Everything else is moot.

[Jeweledleah]

a. If you don't consider luxury items important, don't need. On second thought, don't even greed. They're useless anyway, right? Just pass.

 

b. If everyone used greed instead of need, how would that be any different than everyone using need?

 

this basically.

 

now... I do tend to adjust to the group as a whole, but decorations are rare and useful to everyone, so its pretty much always need. things like recovered data etc could go either way. the only drops I habitually greed are reputation tokens and gear drops because I genuinely don't need them, but could still vendor them if I win, so I don't outright pass on them. I still won't win over someone who needs them, so a person needing an upgrade is safe, but I don't see the point of passing on this stuff.

 

things like gear upgrades? do require a distinction. things like luxuries items and mats? only really require that everyone chooses the same type of roll for it to be "fair". and yes, I have lost 95% of my rolls for decorations in pugs (and guild groups) I'll probably end up soloing flashpoints for specific pieces I want at this rate. but what are you going to do... random rolls are random.

 

P.S. when it comes to luxury items, whether its mats or decorations? nice? is an arbitrary punishment you place on yourself. and IMO - a pointless one, especially in pugs. I may pass for a friend, or trade them something. not because I'm being "nice" but because they are a friend and I know how much it means to them. and because I know they will do the same for me (its literally the only reason I have 2 statues of the emperor for my warrior's bedroom, I've lost every roll I've ever made on them) I own nothing to strangers other than basic courtesy. passing on decoration or a crafting mat? is not part of that courtesy.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[OddballEasyEight]

In the context people are using here, if you have one and roll need on another you are being a greedy SOB instead of "playing nice".

 

While I agree two might be nice, rolling greed if you already have one and others do not is nicer.

 

Of course, that only counts when you are grouped with friends. In a PUG you'd better roll need on anything you want because some d-bag is going to anyway whether they actually need it or not.

 

Not really, since you have the same amount of use/need for 3 decorations as you do 1.

In fact, some decorations you actually have a greater need of more than one since they most often look best in pairs.

 

The only time you wouldn't "need" a decoration is if you have the maximum amount of it already.

 

You are not a greedy SOB for rolling need on a decoration that you can use just as much as the other guy.

[MaximusRex]

We can basically do away with the whole need/greed system anyway, and simply implement roll/pass. Would save a ton of bickering.

 

We can get rid of rolling entirely and just let the game auto-assign loot. Other games do it and it has pretty much gotten rid of drama over loot.

[ValeGreiger]

I'm just going to answer only in relation to the need/greed system AND decorations excluding gear.

 

If a deco drops, I'll click need but I want it. If others clicked greed out of some moral/etiquette standpoint, that's their problem. We ran the flashpoint/operation together, we all pitched in our efforts to complete it. You chose to greed/pass? I don't care. You chose need? I don't care. My right to make use of the need or greed option is validated by doing my share of completing the flashpoint. You want to call me greedy for that? I don't care. Put me on ignore? I don't care. People need to start to realize that when you enter a flashpoint with other people and the loot being dropped is not gear, they can claim a stake on it just as anyone else. Its not about moral standpoints or some unwritten rules of etiquette. Its about everyone has chance of equal claim.

[Floredon]

It makes sense to me. As long as people aren't needing on gear for companions, this is acceptable. The decorations sell well on the GTN, so I will need just for the additional credits. There's nothing scummy or "bad" about this practice, please do grow up if this bothers you.

[discbox]

It doesn't matter if everyone rolls "need" or "greed" on decorations.

 

If somebody don't wants a decoration: pass.

 

If you want it: need.

 

If you don't want to use it, and just sell it on the GTN: greed.

 

There is no reason why anybody needs it more than an other, because of his role or class, or anything.

 

And when you run a flashpoint the xth time just to get the stupid decoration drop, you really need to get it!

Edited September 6, 2014 by discbox

[Heat-Wave]

It makes sense to me. As long as people aren't needing on gear for companions, this is acceptable. The decorations sell well on the GTN, so I will need just for the additional credits. There's nothing scummy or "bad" about this practice, please do grow up if this bothers you.

 

If people ask, I'm ok with companions been needed for... the asking part is nice, it shows respect and consideration.

[LordArtemis]

Lately it seems folks are asking everyone to roll need because some players roll need on everything. That way everyone has an equal chance. Edited September 6, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Sandle_Ravage]

Need on equipment that would upgrade my current gear

 

Greed if i want to pull the mods/enchants from said gear

 

Greed on decorations

 

Pass if I don't need it.

[BadOrb]

We can get rid of rolling entirely and just let the game auto-assign loot. Other games do it and it has pretty much gotten rid of drama over loot.

 

I agree it's not 1999 , PSO2 has a great system all the loot you see on the floor is yours and only you can see it. So glad they re-used their system from the hand held Phantasy Star games. Was so horrible in the old renditions of the game , leaders booting people just as a boss was downed , huge arguments over rares. Not fun at all.

 

As to SWTOR then as others have said everyone rolling Need is equal to everyone rolling Greed , the RNG is exactly the same.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[Halinalle]

Greed/Pass almost always. Why? Because someone will complain about it anyway.

That includes pretty much everything: decorations, rep items, gear etc.

 

I only Need:

Gear (if it's two tiers higher than my current gear, next tier if it's set bonus)

 

Result:

It's very rare that I will get anything. I have to solo it if I really want something.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Halinalle

[branmakmuffin]

Lately it seems folks are asking everyone to roll greed because some players roll greed on everything. That way everyone has an equal chance.

If they want to roll greed on everything, they are welcome to do so. I will continue to roll need on speeders and pets I don't have on the character I'm playing, decorations and rep items I have not maxed out, crafting stuff and gear that improves the character based on current spec/role.

[Fdzzaigl]

The "I need everything" attitude is a blight on MMO's that started when party members became nothing more than faceless strangers instead of people you talked and cooperated with for several hours. Those players who support that idea should really repeat their words inside their heads: thinking you need to hoard everything is the very definition of being greedy.

 

Used to be:

*Need = everything that directly makes your character stronger, or your guild.

*Greed = everything you want solely to increase your wealth or status. Or which you can only indirectly use.

*Pass = stuff you can't use or want to give to others.

 

Anyone who needed on some luxury item while the rest greeded would get an instant kick and a blacklist to boot in many cases. Unless specified otherwise by the group or raid leader.

 

Why you shouldn't need on everything even in this day and age? Because you're basically screwing over anyone who still respects some basic rules.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Fdzzaigl

[Heat-Wave]

Those players who support that idea should really repeat their words inside their heads: thinking you need to hoard everything is the very definition of being greedy.

 

To quote Gordon Gecko:

 

"Greed, for a lack of a better word, is good..."

 

 

The funny thing is, so many people use the word "greedy" as if it were a four letter word.

 

That being said, I "greed" rather than "need" the vast majority of the time, not because I don't want stuff, but because I want people to play with MORE than I want more stuff. I'd prefer to avoid any more ignore lists than I can help, and a few item drops aren't worth it, IMHO.

 

When it comes to people I know, such as a guildie, we usually all "greed" everything... Last night I won a decoration and he was like, "aww, drats". I was like, "you want it?", I clicked trade and opened a window, clicked on the item and clicked ready, to give it to him. He canceled the trade and said, "no, fair's fair"...

 

I'd rather give it to him than have him be sad, I'll get another soon enough... he probably felt the same way.

 

I like playing with such people, so much more fun...

[Grayseven]

The "I need everything" attitude is a blight on MMO's that started when party members became nothing more than faceless strangers instead of people you talked and cooperated with for several hours. Those players who support that idea should really repeat their words inside their heads: thinking you need to hoard everything is the very definition of being greedy.

 

Used to be:

*Need = everything that directly makes your character stronger, or your guild.

*Greed = everything you want solely to increase your wealth or status. Or which you can only indirectly use.

*Pass = stuff you can't use or want to give to others.

 

Anyone who needed on some luxury item while the rest greeded would get an instant kick and a blacklist to boot in many cases. Unless specified otherwise by the group or raid leader.

 

Why you shouldn't need on everything even in this day and age? Because you're basically screwing over anyone who still respects some basic rules.

 

Your idea of need vs greed isn't everyone's idea of need vs greed and trying to define it for everyone by using your opinion simply will not work.

 

Ignore the labels. Instead of calling it need and greed call it something else. A lot of the problem with this issue is the naming convention being used as some sort of excuse to throw a fit.

 

It's a game, we don't really need anything. There are things, however that we want. If we want to ensure we have a chance to get something we want we have no choice but to roll Need because if we don't and someone else wants it as bad then we lose out on our chance to get what it is we want.

 

Greed is basically saying "I'd like to have it but it isn't important if someone else wants it more" but that is way too much to put on a button label.

 

If you want something and roll Greed for it, that is your own fault if someone else rolls Need on it. Need it and move on.

 

And if anyone gives you crap about it, put them on ignore. I hate GF because there are always some d-bags that expect you to do things the way they want you to do them and the moment I run into one of those they hit my ignore list fast.

 

If I want it, I need it. If I don't care if I get it, I greed it. If I don't want it at all, I pass.

[LordArtemis]

If they want to roll greed on everything, they are welcome to do so. I will continue to roll need on speeders and pets I don't have on the character I'm playing, decorations and rep items I have not maxed out, crafting stuff and gear that improves the character based on current spec/role.

 

I actually made a mistake in my post...I meant to say that quite often folks ask for everyone to roll need, that way everyone gets a fair chance because some players roll need on everything.

 

So that is becoming the norm....everyone rolling need.

[Reno_Tarshil]

If you don't want it, don't click need on it.

 

Stop trying to a fix something that isn't broken.

[MaximusRex]

I just don't get it : Need on purely luxury items ?

 

In RL I don't say that I "need" an golden necklace, too.

To me, it's pure luxury. And Luxury can imho NEVER been "needed", because of what the term "Luxury" implies.

 

In real life you don't have to go to Target with a group of 4/8/16 people, kill the occupants and then roll off the "drops".

 

In games you typically need on things you will use and greed on things you will sell. It's not real life, remembering that might help you get some perspective.

Edited September 7, 2014 by MaximusRex

[Master_Hitsugaya]

Always needers are scummy loot whores. End of story.

 

Now if I want something I roll need, elsewise its Greed or Pass.

 

For Decorations If I don't have it ill roll Need, if I do then its a Greed or (in Guild groups) Pass.

 

I have morals & a code I try & stick to, unlike many other MMO players. Occasionally I've made a mistake (we all misclick sometimes when were tired), but I always point it out first if I notice.

 

I wish others were more like me tbh. Time to go polish the Halo.

 

I roll need for equipment that I do need or if it is adaptive and I want it, for decorations I roll need on ones that I don't have solely cause everyone else rolls need.

[branmakmuffin]

Anyone who needed on some luxury item while the rest greeded would get an instant kick and a blacklist to boot in many cases. Unless specified otherwise by the group or raid leader/

What a load of hogwash. Happens all the time in tacticals and no one ever gets booted for it. Anyone who whined about others needing on decorations, pets, etc., would go on my blacklist.

[annabethchase]

We can basically do away with the whole need/greed system anyway, and simply implement roll/pass. Would save a ton of bickering.

 

quoted for truth.

 

Or just bring back the loot bags.