Ideas for fixing AP in PvE and PvP

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

So, Ive been playing alot of PvE AP, and am about to get fully augmented and get both of my DF relics (damned stingy relic crafters and your *********** high tips... 350k... PEOPLE DONT HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY NOW... oh, sorry off-topic) and Ive realised that... AP's single target DPS is quite lacking, and we have 0 raid utility. So, i was thinking of ways to fix both problems, and not make us OP in PvP...

 

My first idea was to make the Blood Tracker buff work for the entire raid team, but 3% extra damage from all sources would more than likely allow people to melt healers alive, which isnt a bad thing entirely, but Sages and Sorcs i dont think can cleanse Retrac Blade (idk if they can, if they can, disregard and this isnt an OP thing) this would give us a new raid utility and more than likely make us wanted in raids for the 3% Raid damage buff and since it isnt quite Bloodthirst levels, it also makes us balanced in PvP.

 

Next idea was to give Rail Shot, Flame Sweep, and Flame Burst, 15% Surge in Prototype Weapon Systems. This would increase our overall DPS by a small margin while not making Rail Shot's Auto-Crit be OP, though there could be an argument for 30% Surge because Carnage has 30% Surge on their auto-crit... Either way, this isnt too harmful of a buff

 

my third and final idea was to reduce Flame Sweep's Heat Cost by 5, and increase it's damage by 5%, this would bring slightly more AOE DPS which, is what this class is about, and would make using Flame Sweep better when you have a group of mobs like in Draxus HM or NiM you can use 2x Flame Sweep 1x Flame Burst > Flamethrower to deal massive AOE DPS.

 

How would you guys in the community react to these changes if they were made live? Not to be biased on my own ideas but i would scream like a little schoolgirl if this was implemented because it would make my favorite class (AP PT) balanced and deal decent Single Target damage while bringing a good raid utility.

[Ottoattack]

As for PvE, I am not a PvEer, but as far as I know, AP current parse lot to mid 3K dps, while pyro is close to 4K dps. As this is around 20% gap. The fact that AP has aoe does not justify that it parses so far behind. With the exception of few fights, aoe damage is secondary in nature and surely does not justify the damage gap. Single target damage is way behind.

 

As for PvP, there is much more to discuss. As a starter AP is aoe/anti aoe spec. Is it has already proven, aoe damage in PvP is overrated. Even when smashers were cool, they got quickly phased out of competitive PvP beyond 2.4. With them gone in 2.7, AP now counters a damage type that is no more than occasional in PvP.

 

AP has no consistent or reliant burst window outside of SC. PFT, while underrated, it only works well when there is several melee enemies in close quarter, which is rarely the case anymore. While up-time on target is good, the sustained damage is weak.

 

AP defenses also are anti aoe/melee oriented. With dots running rampant, AP defenses are getting phased out, that pyro now is more survivable, and pyro's survivability is weak, not to mention that AP needs to be in melee range much more than pyro does.

 

Overall, AP is in terrible place right now.

 

 

As for suggestions:

 

Damage:

 

AP burst, IMO is considered decent for the spec's objective. Sustained damage is way too low. For damage:

 

1- It is fitting to have RP on 7.5 sec CD, and will make the rotation flow much smoother for AP. This can be added up in the AP tree.

 

2- 1% bonus on HEGC is crap. This was created way back in the day to weaken hybrids which do not exist anymore. This needs to go back to 3% minimum.

 

3- RB damage needs to go back to pre 2.0 nerf, on both the instant damage and the dot.

 

4- Immolate can have something cool attached to it, like increase all fire damage taken the target by 5-10% for the next 5-10 secs. Good single target damage boost without impacting aoe damage much.

 

Survivability:

 

TBH, both PT dps specs are currently suffering survivability wise. Pyro has 2 strong DCDs on long CDs, dot protection and 25% defense crutch. AP shield is up more often, re bounder is surely nice, so is the dot and stun extra damage protection, but you will get burnt on sustained damage. Both dps specs will can be easily globaled out of DCDs, which are on long CDs.

 

PT wide:

 

1- Have jet boast be BH wide skill. "hold-up, that's crazy talk." No, not really. JB is extremely similar to overload for inquisitors. Overload is not exclusive to sorc. Sins have it as well. Dps sins are in the same boots of PT dps here, where sins have it while PT does not. Also, tank could use it additional ally protection similar to sin tank. I do not see it over the top.

 

2- Marauders, sins and juggs have extremely strong anti burst tools. Marauder undying rage and vanish. Sins, shroud and vanish. Juggs, saber reflect and somewhat ED. Even ops have evasion and vanish (though ops defensively overall are worse than PTs). It something that PT tanks asked for before. The ability to avoid massive damage. PT is the only melee spec without powerful escape tool. Closest thing is KO. That only works for pyro and is on a long CD. For AP KO is a crap shoot.

 

AP:

 

3- If some of the above happen, AP probably wont need more survivability, but reducing rebounder lock-out from 10 to 7-6 secs could help if survivability remains an issue.

 

 

Utility:

 

I would say this applies to the entire BH as a class and not specific to AP. I always though that providing a critic bonus on a CD, raid/group wide with a lockout will be great addition to BH (and makes sense lore wise). It can be similar to blood thirst. Like, 10% bonus critic damage change for the next 15 secs with 3-4 minutes lock-out.

[TACeMossie]

So, Ive been playing alot of PvE AP, and am about to get fully augmented and get both of my DF relics (damned stingy relic crafters and your *********** high tips... 350k... PEOPLE DONT HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY NOW... oh, sorry off-topic) and Ive realised that... AP's single target DPS is quite lacking, and we have 0 raid utility. So, i was thinking of ways to fix both problems, and not make us OP in PvP...

 

My first idea was to make the Blood Tracker buff work for the entire raid team, but 3% extra damage from all sources would more than likely allow people to melt healers alive, which isnt a bad thing entirely, but Sages and Sorcs i dont think can cleanse Retrac Blade (idk if they can, if they can, disregard and this isnt an OP thing) this would give us a new raid utility and more than likely make us wanted in raids for the 3% Raid damage buff and since it isnt quite Bloodthirst levels, it also makes us balanced in PvP.

 

Next idea was to give Rail Shot, Flame Sweep, and Flame Burst, 15% Surge in Prototype Weapon Systems. This would increase our overall DPS by a small margin while not making Rail Shot's Auto-Crit be OP, though there could be an argument for 30% Surge because Carnage has 30% Surge on their auto-crit... Either way, this isnt too harmful of a buff

 

my third and final idea was to reduce Flame Sweep's Heat Cost by 5, and increase it's damage by 5%, this would bring slightly more AOE DPS which, is what this class is about, and would make using Flame Sweep better when you have a group of mobs like in Draxus HM or NiM you can use 2x Flame Sweep 1x Flame Burst > Flamethrower to deal massive AOE DPS.

 

How would you guys in the community react to these changes if they were made live? Not to be biased on my own ideas but i would scream like a little schoolgirl if this was implemented because it would make my favorite class (AP PT) balanced and deal decent Single Target damage while bringing a good raid utility.

 

Now the relics wouldnt be so bad if you just killed HM Tyrans...

 

Anyway...

 

BLOOD TRACKER:

Random fact, the buff comes from any bleed, so if you have an annihilation marauder in your group, you dont need to use RB to get the buff!

 

PROTOTYPE WEAPON SYSTEMS:

You're getting ridiculous here. No spec should have surge on everything...

 

FLAME SWEEP:

Love the idea, but other classes will scream OP about us getting a reasonably costing AoE Spam attack.

 

 

Anyway, my solution has been stated before, but Ill say it again:

 

Prototype Cylinders - Increase from 1% boost to 3% boost

Retractable Blade - Damage increased by 8% initially, 15% bleed

Blood Tracker - Damage boost increased to 4/8% from 1.5/3%

Flame Barrage - Redesigned. Passively reduces RP cooldown to 7.5 seconds. In addition, Flame burst has a 50/100% chance to give 1 stack and Immolate a 50/100% chance of 2 stacks of flame barrage. Each stack reduces cost of rocket punch by 8 heat, max 2 stacks.

Shoulder Cannon buff talent that the name escapes me: Also reduces cooldown on SC by 15/30/45 seconds

 

Oh and AP still has its uses, such as Gate Commander Draxus, Corruptor Zero, Bestia, Brontes, and certain roles for Calphayus

[xxSHOONYxx]

BLOOD TRACKER:

Random fact, the buff comes from any bleed, so if you have an annihilation marauder in your group, you dont need to use RB to get the buff!

 

Really? that's neat. Although I would think it would be better for vanguards with dirty fighting smugglers.

 

Flame Barrage - Redesigned. Passively reduces RP cooldown to 7.5 seconds. In addition, Flame burst has a 50/100% chance to give 1 stack and Immolate a 50/100% chance of 2 stacks of flame barrage. Each stack reduces cost of rocket punch by 8 heat, max 2 stacks.

 

Love it

 

One thing that I will continue to say in every one of these suggestion threads is the following:

 

Prototype flame thrower: Redesigned to "Prototype weapon systems": Flame burst and immolate both have a 50/100% to build one stack of Prototype Weapon Systems, increasing the damage of your next flame thrower by 20% or Unload by 25% (or 30%), reducing their heat cost by 2(I forget what it is currently), and slowing the target by 30% per stack. Stacks up to 3 times.

 

This lets you choose between AoE or higher single target damage, and makes it so you don't have to balance around the fact that the largest portion of your damage is AoE. Also it would let me not cringe so much when I see a Powertech using unload But over all the class would stay exactly the same, it's still based on a 3 second channel and buffing said channel, combine it with shorter cd on shoulder cannon (and explosive fuel to match) and a buff to the bleed and we'll be rollin.

 

10m Rocket punch when?

 

Edit: I just looked and found that there already was a "Prototype Weapon Systems" so pick a different name

Edited September 6, 2014 by xxSHOONYxx

[Ryuku-sama]

All those idea are good. Except the Unload one. Unload deliver less DPS than a non PFT Flamethrower... far less. It would takes almost 50-60% buff to Unload per PFT stack to make it worth it. Vanguard aren't meant to be using Unload at all. Never.

[xxSHOONYxx]

All those idea are good. Except the Unload one. Unload deliver less DPS than a non PFT Flamethrower... far less. It would takes almost 50-60% buff to Unload per PFT stack to make it worth it.

 

Right now in my mix of 180/186 gear an unbuffed flamethrower does ~900 more damage than unload before armor. With a 25% buff per stack to unload, it would be doing 500~900 damage more than flamethrower at 3 stacks after armor (I think I got the armor damage reduction right). Personally I vote for 30% per stack, giving a 90% total damage increase vs a 60% damage increase of flamethrower. Having a 150/180% damage increase would be slightly crazy

 

Edit: I'm also assuming the crit and surge talents affecting flamethrower would also be applied to unload as well.

 

Vanguard aren't meant to be using Unload at all. Never.

You are correct for right now, but with this buff we could use it and it would be a dps gain in single target situations.

Edited September 6, 2014 by xxSHOONYxx

[Ryuku-sama]

Right now in my mix of 180/186 gear an unbuffed flamethrower does ~900 more damage than unload before armor. With a 25% buff per stack to unload, it would be doing 500~900 damage more than flamethrower at 3 stacks after armor (I think I got the armor damage reduction right). Personally I vote for 30% per stack, giving a 90% total damage increase vs a 60% damage increase of flamethrower. Having a 150/180% damage increase would be slightly crazy

 

Edit: I'm also assuming the crit and surge talents affecting flamethrower would also be applied to unload as well.

 

 

You are correct for right now, but with this buff we could use it and it would be a dps gain in single target situations.

 

Armor. Prototype Burn Enhancer. Hyper Fuel. Prototype Weapons Systems. SO FT bypass armor, has 6% more damage 6% more crit chance and 30% more surge than Unload. Add to that that it is a tech attack and not a ranged and you get to my 50%. Armor can destroy over 30% of your DPS without any armor pen. Tech move have inherently higher crit than ranged (by about 0.5% without all Cunning datacrons). So 0.065*0.30 = 0.0195. So 2% DPS with the crit/surge talents. So FT has a 7% damage buff in the tree that would never affects Unload. It is nothing really worth noting tho.

The real problem is armor. To bypass armor, you would need about 50% increase over FT in damage. So we are at 35% per stack. Then you would need to do about 1700 more damage with it to get better than FT. So 45% at the least.

[OniGanon]

Unless an Unload/Full Auto buff came with a 100% pushback resistance, you couldn't pay me to use it.

 

No spec should have surge on everything...

 

Well it's not without precedent. Rage/Focus has 15% Surge on everything.

Edited September 6, 2014 by OniGanon

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Now the relics wouldnt be so bad if you just killed HM Tyrans...

 

My group cant do HM Tyrans ATM, stuck on HM Draxus and HM Op IX

 

Anyway...

 

BLOOD TRACKER:

Random fact, the buff comes from any bleed, so if you have an annihilation marauder in your group, you dont need to use RB to get the buff!

 

Interesting... but doesnt help me OR the raid... my idea was for Raid Utility.

 

PROTOTYPE WEAPON SYSTEMS:

You're getting ridiculous here. No spec should have surge on everything...

 

It wouldnt be OP since our skills dont deal that much damage anyway... at LEAST give us 30% Surge on Flame Sweep...

 

FLAME SWEEP:

Love the idea, but other classes will scream OP about us getting a reasonably costing AoE Spam attack.

 

Sweeping Slash is a reasonable cost Spamable AOE attack, same with Force Storm! So, if someone screams OP about it, tell em to shove it up their arse.

 

 

Anyway, my solution has been stated before, but Ill say it again:

 

Prototype Cylinders - Increase from 1% boost to 3% boost

 

I was going to say 5% but 3% probably wouldnt be as OP.

 

Retractable Blade - Damage increased by 8% initially, 15% bleed

 

This is a Burst tree, not a Sustained Tree, but ok...

 

Blood Tracker - Damage boost increased to 4/8% from 1.5/3%

 

Yes, yes and MORE YES.

 

Flame Barrage - Redesigned. Passively reduces RP cooldown to 7.5 seconds. In addition, Flame burst has a 50/100% chance to give 1 stack and Immolate a 50/100% chance of 2 stacks of flame barrage. Each stack reduces cost of rocket punch by 8 heat, max 2 stacks.

 

hmmm, i dont see how this would help us, in fact isnt this a nerf?

 

Shoulder Cannon buff talent that the name escapes me: Also reduces cooldown on SC by 15/30/45 seconds

 

Oooohhh this... would be probably cried as semi-OP because those Missiles can hit for like 2k - 3k crits and you have 7 of them.. my Flamerthrower on average already hits for 11k... i think 21k total on Shoulder Cannon every 15 seconds would be OP... if it was a CD reduction TO 45 seconds i would be fine with it, 7 missiles per 3 Rotations like MM's Sniper Volley, i can dig that.

 

Oh and AP still has its uses, such as Gate Commander Draxus, Corruptor Zero, Bestia, Brontes, and certain roles for Calphayus

 

Yep, that's exactly why i'm going to move my AP PT to my raid team since HM Draxus is still kicking our arse... it's also a nice spec for Kiting in Nefra and good for burning the adds in Grob'thok.

 

 

/5char

[OniGanon]

Flame Barrage - Redesigned. Passively reduces RP cooldown to 7.5 seconds. In addition, Flame burst has a 50/100% chance to give 1 stack and Immolate a 50/100% chance of 2 stacks of flame barrage. Each stack reduces cost of rocket punch by 8 heat, max 2 stacks.

 

hmmm, i dont see how this would help us, in fact isnt this a nerf?

 

A 7.5s cooldown aligns Rocket Punch with the 15s cooldown of Immolate, and having a guaranteed cost reduction from Flame Burst instead of a highly unreliable 30% chance proc is a pretty huge improvement.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

A 7.5s cooldown aligns Rocket Punch with the 15s cooldown of Immolate, and having a guaranteed cost reduction from Flame Burst instead of a highly unreliable 30% chance proc is a pretty huge improvement.

 

But... if your doing your rotation like this RB > I > RP > RS > FB > FB > FB > FT > RB > I > Rapid > RP > RS

 

you shouldn't have RNG on the Proc because Immolate has a 100% chance to proc Flame Barrage, i can agree on the CD reduction though, it is annoying to be forced to place a Rapid Shots between your second onwards Immolate and RP, though it is nice for Heat managment, I could also get behind 1 or 2 seconds longer on Retrac Blade's DoT, it seems like i can never fit the last tick of Flamethrower into Retrac Blade without clipping Retrac Blade by using it before a FT...

[xxSHOONYxx]

Unless an Unload/Full Auto buff came with a 100% pushback resistance, you couldn't pay me to use it.

 

It would get everything flamethrower has right now but with more damage to make it higher than FT while compensating for armor.

 

Armor. Prototype Burn Enhancer. Hyper Fuel. Prototype Weapons Systems. SO FT bypass armor, has 6% more damage 6% more crit chance and 30% more surge than Unload. Add to that that it is a tech attack and not a ranged and you get to my 50%. Armor can destroy over 30% of your DPS without any armor pen. Tech move have inherently higher crit than ranged (by about 0.5% without all Cunning datacrons). So 0.065*0.30 = 0.0195. So 2% DPS with the crit/surge talents. So FT has a 7% damage buff in the tree that would never affects Unload. It is nothing really worth noting tho.

The real problem is armor. To bypass armor, you would need about 50% increase over FT in damage. So we are at 35% per stack. Then you would need to do about 1700 more damage with it to get better than FT. So 45% at the least.

 

I already said it would receive the crit and surge bonuses given to FT, and I had already calculated in hyper fuel.

 

As for armor, I may have calculated the armor reduction wrong, I will check again. And I'll actually do a parse with FT replaced with unload so we can see exactly how much of a damage buff it would need in order to get where we want it.

[xxSHOONYxx]

So when calculating the damage reduction from armor I may have accidentally multiplied by 1.28 instead of dividing thereby actually giving an edge to energy/kinetic. I feel silly now.

[xxSHOONYxx]

So after correctly calculating damage resistance from armor, doing my parse with unload instead of FT, and about 2 pages of math I have come up with the following:

 

Buffing unload by:

50% per stack - ~3630 dps

55% per stack - ~3790 dps

60% per stack - ~3860 dps

70% per stack - ~4000 dps

 

These are the expected parse values you could expect to be pulling if you played AP in it's current state with replacing FT with unload, it does not take into consideration that unload has a lower heat cost and you can use less rapid shots.

 

Note that this is only with the unload thingy, if we change anything else as well it will only go up further.

[Ottoattack]

Unload is not a good idea for AP. Even if we buff the damage, you will have to deal with pushback. In addition, it has no synergy with how the tree operates (and the class TBH).

[xxSHOONYxx]

In addition, it has no synergy with how the tree operates (and the class TBH).

 

You're literally trading one 3 second channel for another. I don't understand how it doesn't have "synergy" unless you are talking about how talents don't include unload which is an easy fix.

Edited September 6, 2014 by xxSHOONYxx

[xxSHOONYxx]

Another idea is to have more uses for prototype flame thrower, sort of like fury:

 

• Consume stacks to buff flamethrower
  
• Consume 3 stacks to increase your damage by x% for 15 seconds
  
• Consume 3 stacks to increase your movement speed by x% for 15 seconds
  
• Consume 1 stack to increase your damage reduction by x% for 5 seconds, stacks up to 3 times (burst defense?)
  
• Consume 3 stacks to finish the cd on immolate
  

They could be like zen/insp/trance but be more self utility instead of raid utility

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Another idea is to have more uses for prototype flame thrower, sort of like fury:

 

• Consume stacks to buff flamethrower
  
• Consume 3 stacks to increase your damage by x% for 15 seconds
  
• Consume 3 stacks to increase your movement speed by x% for 15 seconds
  
• Consume 1 stack to increase your damage reduction by x% for 5 seconds, stacks up to 3 times (burst defense?)
  
• Consume 3 stacks to finish the cd on immolate
  

They could be like zen/insp/trance but be more self utility instead of raid utility

 

that would get too complicated and such, besides we need more Raid Utility than anything, that and Single Target damage.

[xxSHOONYxx]

that would get too complicated and such, besides we need more Raid Utility than anything, that and Single Target damage.

 

Powertechs actually have a fair amount of raid utility. Being able to off tank (and being the only dps with an AoE taunt) has saved many raids of mine and can be great for cheesing tank swaps (Looking at you firebrand!) Pulls are also useful for adds. The only thing I would say we could use would be two more points so we could grab combust as well.

[Frenesi]

I'm not sure offtanking is raid utility. Yes, it can be useful, but it usually means that you did something wrong. Didn't bioware stated that having offheals will no longer affect DPS balance? I don't see why offtanking should be treated differently.

[TACeMossie]

Interesting... but doesnt help me OR the raid... my idea was for Raid Utility.

 

Its pretty obvious that PTs/VGs are the planned utility of emergency off-tank simply cause they still have an AoE taunt without needing to change stances. AP is especially good here because of the 30% AoE + Stunned Damage Reduction, the significantly shorter cooldown on energy shield (Cooldown can go to 40 seconds), and the constantly refreshing absorb shield. Damage based utilities I think should be reserved for classes who can only do damage (I mean bloodthirst is restricted to 5% uptime, so its a 0.75% boost to the whole raid that doesn't stack. Your trying to make it 4x as strong and stackable...

 

It wouldnt be OP since our skills dont deal that much damage anyway... at LEAST give us 30% Surge on Flame Sweep...

 

You'd be surprised at how OP it would become adding extra surge to Rail Shot, Flame Burst and Flame Sweep in tactics tree. Especially with the auto-crit on rail shot and the high crit chance on the other abilities.

 

Sweeping Slash is a reasonable cost Spamable AOE attack, same with Force Storm! So, if someone screams OP about it, tell em to shove it up their arse.

 

Ok, how often can you argue that using sweeping slash over the normal rotation is worth it?

Annihilation - LOLno

Carnage - LOLno

Rage - LOLno

Immortal - Yes, but tank tree so lol

Vengeance - LOLno (You use sweeping slash, you aren't resetting Ravage or putting DoTs up, and your wasting time)

 

And Force Storm? 2/3 of Sorc Trees are force starved already (though one of them is the healer...), and the third has better things to do than spam force storm. Like spam lightning strike

 

This is a Burst tree, not a Sustained Tree, but ok...

 

So's deception, I didn't see people complaining about buffs to that (they were too busy being outraged at the reverted nerf to Recklessness)

Also, this is basically reverting the nerfs from 2.0 and 2.4 that were put in to stop hybrids (hybrids are outclassed now anyway)

 

hmmm, i dont see how this would help us, in fact isnt this a nerf?

 

Lets see, Immolate still is a 100% reduction in cost, but now instead of a crappy 30% chance for flame burst its a 2-flame-bursts-is-100%-reduction. In addition, if you're doing AP without a ~10 second cooldown on RP right now you are doing it horribly wrong. Reducing the cooldown to 7.5 seconds means we can remove DFA from the single target rotation without it being a DPS loss, while fixing the RNG behind flame barrage means that you dont have to cross your fingers to have enough ammo to use the extra rocket punches.

 

TLDR Its a buff

 

Oooohhh this... would be probably cried as semi-OP because those Missiles can hit for like 2k - 3k crits and you have 7 of them.. my Flamerthrower on average already hits for 11k... i think 21k total on Shoulder Cannon every 15 seconds would be OP... if it was a CD reduction TO 45 seconds i would be fine with it, 7 missiles per 3 Rotations like MM's Sniper Volley, i can dig that.

 

Shoulder Cannon has a 90 second cooldown, so this talent would reduce it to a 45 second cooldown. It still takes 20 seconds to load them all though

 

Delayed response because of reasons. Answers/Responses in red

 

I'm not sure offtanking is raid utility. Yes, it can be useful, but it usually means that you did something wrong. Didn't bioware stated that having offheals will no longer affect DPS balance? I don't see why offtanking should be treated differently.

 

There are cases where off-tanking isn't necessary, but makes it easier. NiM Bestia for example, having a DPS hold one of the monsters at different points in the fight prevents a tank from having to take 3 of them.

Similarly, having a DPS hold Kephess in NiM Brontes means its easier for the tank swap to be pulled off in that phase.

Edited September 7, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Ryuku-sama]

snip

 

Just one thing. Spamming hardcast CL > FS (interrupted as soon as it proc) > CL > FS (until it proc) > CL is kinda huge AoE But not used outside PvP to put some pression on the healers

[TACeMossie]

Just one thing. Spamming hardcast CL > FS (interrupted as soon as it proc) > CL > FS (until it proc) > CL is kinda huge AoE But not used outside PvP to put some pression on the healers

 

Eh the pushback gets to me, really badly. Im pretty sure Lightning Strike is better unless there are 5+ targets anyway (and if thats consistently happening i'd just spec hybrid instead for Death Field + Wrath over TB)

Edited September 7, 2014 by TACeMossie

[xxSHOONYxx]

Eh the pushback gets to me, really badly. Im pretty sure Lightning Strike is better unless there are 5+ targets anyway (and if thats consistently happening i'd just spec hybrid instead for Death Field + Wrath over TB)

 

Best spec coming through

[TACeMossie]

Best spec coming through

 

Haha I prefer this one

 

Sure the DoTs are weaker, but the crits for Chain Lightning and Lightning Strike are much stronger, you get the double tick out of Chain Lightning/Lightning Strike, and Mental Alacrity lasts longer/has a shorter cooldown.

 

I do miss the surge on Death Field though