Ideas for fixing AP in PvE and PvP

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

AP should be at it's best in C0, because you basically stack up 3 and then run over and FT down all the adds. only problem is with the concussion mine, but if you time it right it shouldn't be an issue. Your gear is a little low to do HM as well (you generally want all 168's or better unless you're tremendously good at your class). Another strategy is grappling over the gold droid and getting both him and C0 in your FT. What I'm saying is you might want to rethink how the fight works and how AP works. Given the same gear level any spec of any class is viable all the way up till NiM.

 

My team's composition is this

 

Sin Tank

PT Tank

(******) MM DPS (who refuses to spec into Engi for superior DPS though may switch to Lightning Sorc)

Me (AP/Pyro PT [Yes, i do play Pyro for bosses like Nefra, Grob'thok and Brontes when we get to her.])

Arsenal Merc

Carnage Mara (not just for Bloodthirst, he's our current best DPS with me in a close second when i play Pyro)

and 2x Sorc Healers (i kinda wish that our MM DPS would play his very well geared Merc Healer instead of Sniper because 2x Sorc healers is great for AOE healing, but our Sin Tank is getting nuked every now and again on Draxus when MT'ing Draxus, we can clear him but it's really nerve wracking when we do.)

 

Currently when in C0 i'm on the boss because JET CHARGE SHOULD BE A UNIVERSAL PT SKILL.... Oh, sorry that's a rant for another thread... Ok, let me back up. Since AP PT doesnt have the mobility of a Carnage Mara, my team sticks me on the boss all the time (mostly to count Mines but sometimes the counting doesnt work and he just decides SCREW YOU i'm gonna use Anti-Gravity anyway! and really you should know that C0 does the anti-gravity field and just **** out of it... it's not hard...) And so for that fight i'll just play Pyro for extra Single Target DPS, but since our AOE DPS is nearly non-existant (mainly because of OS nerf due to PvP whiners that really shouldnt have a say because this game was intended to be purely PvE... that's coming from someone who actually likes to PvP on the special occasion)

 

So, our AOE DPS is nearly 0 except when I play AP PT. And i'll admit, AP is fun, but Fun is not > Big DPS. If AP had say a 5% - 7% increase in DPS, i would always play it, but untill then it's spec swapping for me.

 

 

(side question, is Grob'thok's Smashes (Overhead and Pipe) midigated by the 30% from AP? or does it not really midigate alot or even at all?)

Edited September 29, 2014 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[kaloonzu]

I still think the simplest fixes would be bumping up HEGC's bonus to elemental damage by 2-4% (making it 3-5%), Blood Tracker by 1.5/3 (making it 3/6%, [Yes, I know, most people want 4/8%, I'm being more conservative, you'll see why]), Having Power Loaders reduce the cooldown of SC by 10/20/30 (Again, I know, most people who have brought it up say 15/30/45), having Prototype Weapons Systems boost RS on top of the other three, and having Unload be buffed by Prototype Flame Thrower (really making it Prototype Bracer, a nice juxtaposition of Power Bracer in Pyro). I think that might resolve most of our issues of DPS. The only thing I can think of for our survivability is having the Energy Redoubt rate limit dropped to 8 seconds and having its chance upped to 12.5/25%. But THAT might be too out there.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I still think the simplest fixes would be bumping up HEGC's bonus to elemental damage by 2-4% (making it 3-5%), Blood Tracker by 1.5/3 (making it 3/6%, [Yes, I know, most people want 4/8%, I'm being more conservative, you'll see why]), Having Power Loaders reduce the cooldown of SC by 10/20/30 (Again, I know, most people who have brought it up say 15/30/45), having Prototype Weapons Systems boost RS on top of the other three, and having Unload be buffed by Prototype Flame Thrower (really making it Prototype Bracer, a nice juxtaposition of Power Bracer in Pyro). I think that might resolve most of our issues of DPS. The only thing I can think of for our survivability is having the Energy Redoubt rate limit dropped to 8 seconds and having its chance upped to 12.5/25%. But THAT might be too out there.

 

That's pretty ingenious... I still think a specific tree based ability for Level 30 tier should be made for the sole purpose of being our "Single Target Flamethrower" as Unload isnt buffed by anything in the PT tree's and adding it to some skills may make it a viable option to use it to boost TPS on Tanks, and PT Tanks dont really need more TPS...

[AAntan]

Why people insist on buffing Unload? I never use that on my PT, ever. The damage outcome is bad because you suffer A LOT of pushback (100%, not 0% like mercs), so you barely get 1 or 2 ticks out and thats it..

 

Best ways to improve single target dps are these ideas a lot of people threw away:

• 
  Increase the % on HEGC (1% is just dumb).

• Increase the % on Blood Tracker and maybe make it work with poison too (3% for 2 skill points?).

• SC cd reduction on Power Loaders by 10/20/30 (beware that if you make this cd even shorter it will be way bursty so 1min total is fine), or maybe surge increase by 5/10/15%.

• Reduce the cd of RP to 7.5s (Power loader if we don't get the SC reduction?). This will allow you to punch twice on your rotation not just once.

• Make free RP stack based, like FS on Jugg. Each stack reduces heat cost of RP by 50%, Immolate can deliver 2 stacks, while FB only 1.This way 1 stack is less heat than spamming waiting for RNG.

• RS gets 10%-15% flat damage increase. Surge damage on this skill is op because you have 45% penetration and it's always used on auto-crit (yes I know maras have surge on FS but they need to wait for Gore now if they want armor pen and their auto-crit is 20% from Ataru Form attacks).

• Buff RB back, the hybrid is dead and not thanks to that nerf, it only messed with AP even more.

Edited October 1, 2014 by AAntan

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Why people insist on buffing Unload? I never use that on my PT, ever. The damage outcome is bad because you suffer A LOT of pushback (100%, not 0% like mercs), so you barely get 1 or 2 ticks out and thats it..

 

Best ways to improve single target dps are these ideas a lot of people threw away:

• 
  Increase the % on HEGC (1% is just dumb).

• Increase the % on Blood Tracker and maybe make it work with poison too (3% for 2 skill points?).

• SC cd reduction on Power Loaders by 10/20/30 (beware that if you make this cd even shorter it will be way bursty so 1min total is fine), or maybe surge increase by 5/10/15%.

• Reduce the cd of RP to 7.5s (Power loader if we don't get the SC reduction?). This will allow you to punch twice on your rotation not just once.

• Make free RP stack based, like FS on Jugg. Each stack reduces heat cost of RP by 50%, Immolate can deliver 2 stacks, while FB only 1.This way 1 stack is less heat than spamming waiting for RNG.

• RS gets 10%-15% flat damage increase. Surge damage on this skill is op because you have 45% penetration and it's always used on auto-crit (yes I know maras have surge on FS but they need to wait for Gore now if they want armor pen and their auto-crit is 20% from Ataru Form attacks).

• Buff RB back, the hybrid is dead and not thanks to that nerf, it only messed with AP even more.

 

The idea for Unload buff is for Single Target version of Flamethrower. Our problem is Single Target DPS. also, Carnage Mara's have a 100% chance to proc their Auto-crit from Massacre... So, they have more Armor Pen + 30% Surge on their Auto-crit... So, Argument Invalid.

[AAntan]

The idea for Unload buff is for Single Target version of Flamethrower. Our problem is Single Target DPS. also, Carnage Mara's have a 100% chance to proc their Auto-crit from Massacre... So, they have more Armor Pen + 30% Surge on their Auto-crit... So, Argument Invalid.

 

Edit: Sorry I didnt know they had execute tied to 100% now, my bad. Still getting unload buffed isn't as viable as all the other things I put on the list that you missed.

Edited October 1, 2014 by AAntan

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Edit: Sorry I didnt know they had execute tied to 100% now, my bad. Still getting unload buffed isn't as viable as all the other things I put on the list that you missed.

 

Yep, Execute proc is 100% now.

 

As for Unload, i agree and am offering a different solution

 

Rail Barrage/Missile Barrage (Not sure which one would be more ******...) In essence it's like Master Strike/Ravage for AP. It would deal comparable damage to Ravage/MS also (when at 3 stacks of PWC).

 

Rail Barrage/Missile Barrage would cost the same Heat and have the same CD as Flamethrower and deal slightly more damage than Flamethrower when both are at 3 Stacks of PWC (See Below) and would have a similar 3 second Channel Time. In essence it would be a Single Target version of Flamethrower, and it can be activated at 10 Meters to keep a bit of range to AP.

 

Change PFT's name to Prototype Weapon Charger and give the same buffs that Flamethrower would get, but add them to Rail Barrage/Missile Barrage to allow us to either deal more Single Target damage, or more AOE damage, when need be.

 

Done. Our single target DPS would rise to acceptable levels, and the spec would need no further changes other than boosting HEGC from 1% to about 3%, Blood Tracker to 8% (and allow Poisons to proc Blood Tracker, Because if you didnt know Blood Tracker/Triumph will proc off of any Bleed type DoT, so if your a Tactics Vanguard running with a Dirty Fighting Gunslinger or Scoundrel, their DoT's will proc Blood Tracker/Triumph for you, kinda handy really... but since Agent's dont use bleeds... but it does work for anni mara DoT's)

[TACeMossie]

You guys have to remember that while Combat/Carnage does have the auto-crit surge-boosted Blade Storm/Force Scream, the only other thing they have surge on is the low-priority Blade Rush/Massacre. Tactics/AP has extra surge on:

 

Stockstrike/Rocket Punch

Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower

Fire Pulse/Immolate

Gut/Retractible Blade

 

Thats 55% of the time your using something with a surge boost, compared to Combat/Carnage which is between 28.6% of the time and 42.9% of the time.

 

Tactics has different issues - e.g. They lack sustained (their burst is surprisingly good, especially when combined with Shoulder Cannon).

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

You guys have to remember that while Combat/Carnage does have the auto-crit surge-boosted Blade Storm/Force Scream, the only other thing they have surge on is the low-priority Blade Rush/Massacre. Tactics/AP has extra surge on:

 

Stockstrike/Rocket Punch

Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower

Fire Pulse/Immolate

Gut/Retractible Blade

 

Thats 55% of the time your using something with a surge boost, compared to Combat/Carnage which is between 28.6% of the time and 42.9% of the time.

 

Tactics has different issues - e.g. They lack sustained (their burst is surprisingly good, especially when combined with Shoulder Cannon).

 

Thing is, Tactics/AP is a Burst oriented tree, so the sustained cant be too much higher, though i am an advocate of Gut/Retrac Blade being un-nerfed.

[TACeMossie]

Thing is, Tactics/AP is a Burst oriented tree, so the sustained cant be too much higher, though i am an advocate of Gut/Retrac Blade being un-nerfed.

 

Anyway, with 3.0 about 3 months away at the latest now, I think its a good time to put together a thread on the subject of what we, as a community, would like to see done for VGs/PTs in 3.0. I will be making the post in the morning (its 1:30 am here right now... I should go to bed), including the basics of an idea based on observations i've made with each spec.

 

In the mean time, why not get the agent companions maxed out with affection? For now, its glitched so you get an extra 1% accuracy/crit/surge, which equates to 50-100 more DPS. Hell, I broke 3.7k on a dummy with my 50% DF/50% DM gear, when my previous best was barely over 3.6k