Hardcore raiding after 2.10?

[Dark_Mithrandir]

Devs, Simple,

 

2.10 nerfs dread palace leaving the game without any true hardcore content to do.

So..... When we can comeback for some interesting challenge? 3 months? 6? 9?

 

 

PD:

I'm not the first who has said you this and i will not be the last but your nightmare buff is awful.

Nigthmare buff out ==> Hardcore healers go take a nap or play another game.

[MisterBlackJack]

They said 3.0 (expansion) comes after 2.10. So look for new raid content around november

[Ruskaeth]

Nigthmare buff out ==> Hardcore healers go take a nap or play another game.

I heal those nim-a-thingies, even if I have never considered myself a real healer. I voiced my extreme annoyance at the method BW nerfs the fights before and I guess it's time again. They should nerf the instance more even between different roles. Hell, rather leave healing as it is.. for crying out loud.

 

They must have statistics making sense of this. Otherwise it's just madness to nerf like this. According to BW, every fking guild attempting NiMs have ideal and maximized dps output and only healing is creating the obstacle in advancing through the nightmare operations

 

Developers, you are terribad at nerfing stuff.

 

//continue ignoring healer concerns.

[CaptainApop]

From the annals of "a scoundrel produces significant burst healing using emergency medpac" to the present day NiM power nerfs I have never really had the impression that anyone at BW plays healer or even understands healer concerns.

 

I could do the listy thing but it would be long enough that I doubt anyone would read it that doesn't already agree.

 

It's awful. The current nerfing strategy makes the fights easier than hm (nefra for example) for healers and EXACTLY THE SAME for everyone else. It makes no sense.

 

As to why it's being nerfed in the first place, who knows. Probably the same crack blizzard got on for awhile when they concluded that since only 5% or so of the population clear top tier instances it's not worth the money to develop without nerfing it for the rest.

Edited September 3, 2014 by CaptainApop

[masstershake]

My guild is 8/10 Nim pre nerf. We always get to last boss with roughly 1 month b4 nerf. If nim is too hard for guilds thats why there is hard mode...

And healing is the easyest part of the raids if your group isn't taking unnecessary damage.

For the 4th boss Dp my partner nd i never fail a challenge, hell if we get crits the thing is near 50% at the end of it. Usually its around 30%. Our dps on the other hand are the ones having difficulty. Nerfing nim is ridiculous unless 0 guilds can clear it.

[ivanhedgehog]

My guild is 8/10 Nim pre nerf. We always get to last boss with roughly 1 month b4 nerf. If nim is too hard for guilds thats why there is hard mode...

And healing is the easyest part of the raids if your group isn't taking unnecessary damage.

For the 4th boss Dp my partner nd i never fail a challenge, hell if we get crits the thing is near 50% at the end of it. Usually its around 30%. Our dps on the other hand are the ones having difficulty. Nerfing nim is ridiculous unless 0 guilds can clear it.

 

BW is putting out NIM as "new" content...and going a year in between releases. They have to get more people doing that content or they are in trouble. they will have to make nim content doable for the majority of the game or they cant claim that it is content for the majority of the players. if you completed nim df/dp you got the special epeen titles. they are trying to parade people through NIm so they can put off any real releases for another 3 to 5 months. If you think a new op will be ready in Nov, you need to cut down on the recreational drugs.

[Infernixx]

End-of-expansion lull. More content coming with next expansion.

 

No, you're not going to get new raids until then.

 

No MMO can keep up with the demand for new content.

 

Stop whining.

[jedip_enguin]

/violin

[MillionsKNives]

End-of-expansion lull. More content coming with next expansion.

 

No, you're not going to get new raids until then.

 

No MMO can keep up with the demand for new content.

 

Stop whining.

 

This isn't an end of expansion lull, they haven't released any new ops since soon after the expansion launched. Nor is this the inability for an MMO to keep up with demand, this is them not even trying to.

 

They botched their planning and put themselves in a position where they'd be either releasing ops before the expansion but not soon enough as to give it a full life cycle before the level increase, or with the expansion but so late that it's been over a year since the last operation. If they had prioritized it earlier then they could have released it soon enough to not have to worry about it launching too close to the new expansion.

 

February to April would have been about in keeping with their previous operations cycles. That's 4-6 months after DF/DP launched.

Edited September 3, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[Infernixx]

This isn't an end of expansion lull, they haven't released any new ops since just after the expansion launched. Nor is this the inability for an MMO to keep up with demand, this is them not even trying to.

 

They botched their planning and put themselves in a position where they'd be either releasing ops before the expansion but not soon enough as to give it a full life cycle before the level increase, or with the expansion but so late that it's been over a year since the last operation. If they had prioritized it earlier then they could have released it soon enough to not have to worry about it launching too close to the new expansion.

 

They didn't botch anything. Just because they shifted focus from Raids to new features for a year just means that they put their focus on developing a more solid foundation for the game and didn't fixate on Raiders for a little while.

 

I'm sure the raiders will survive.

[MillionsKNives]

They didn't botch anything. Just because they shifted focus from Raids to new features for a year just means that they put their focus on developing a more solid foundation for the game and didn't fixate on Raiders for a little while.

 

I'm sure the raiders will survive.

 

Which has nothing to do with an "end of expansion lul" or not being able to "keep up with demand". So which is it?

[masstershake]

Wow it sounds like a certain person cant get into raid groups so hes bashing raiders. I thought this topic was about the nim buff going away and how stupid it is, not crying about not getting new ops. But maybe i read the OP wrong.

[Infernixx]

Which has nothing to do with an "end of expansion lul" or not being able to "keep up with demand". So which is it?

 

Well, let me sit down and explain how it works.

 

You have an expansion launch. It goes for a little while, then they update with a content patch. Repeat process of content patches with new gear plateaus until you're ready to start on the next expansion. At that point, most MMOs will sit back and let you simply grind the last raid tier until they're ready to launch their new expansion.

 

WoW is a prime example of this as they're going to make their players wait over a year for new content of any kind, raids or otherwise, and when their players complain, they're told that they can get a short filler raid now, but it'll cost them a raid content patch in the new expansion.

 

TOR, on the other hand, gave us GSF and GSH and Guild Ships and Conquest in that stretch between the last content patch and the new expansion. Which is more than what most MMOs do.

 

Does that explain it sufficiently? Do you need more details on how things work?

[MillionsKNives]

Well, let me sit down and explain how it works.

 

You have an expansion launch. It goes for a little while, then they update with a content patch. Repeat process of content patches with new gear plateaus until you're ready to start on the next expansion. At that point, most MMOs will sit back and let you simply grind the last raid tier until they're ready to launch their new expansion.

 

WoW is a prime example of this as they're going to make their players wait over a year for new content of any kind, raids or otherwise, and when their players complain, they're told that they can get a short filler raid now, but it'll cost them a raid content patch in the new expansion.

 

TOR, on the other hand, gave us GSF and GSH and Guild Ships and Conquest in that stretch between the last content patch and the new expansion. Which is more than what most MMOs do.

 

Does that explain it sufficiently? Do you need more details on how things work?

 

Aww that's cute, you think you're schooling me.

 

Until now they've had a steady schedule of releasing operations every 4-6 months. However, this last time it's been over a year. They've proven they can do it, but they didn't this time. Instead, they decided to release a bunch of other stuff. From a raiding standpoint they botched their schedule, badly.

 

You said it yourself, they have put out GSF and GSH and all that stuff. So how is that an "end of expansion lul" if they're continuing to put out content? That makes no sense. They're clearly able to keep up with content because that's exactly what they're doing. But what they're not doing is keeping up with ops content. So again, your "end of expansion lul" argument holds no water.

 

As for what should be prioritized when, you are certainly welcome to your opinion that operations should go over a year without being updated but I strongly disagree.

[Infernixx]

Aww that's cute, you think you're schooling me.

 

Until now they've had a steady schedule of releasing operations every 4-6 months. However, this last time it's been over a year. They've proven they can do it, but they didn't this time. Instead, they decided to release a bunch of other stuff. From a raiding standpoint they botched their schedule, badly.

 

You said it yourself, they have put out GSF and GSH and all that stuff. So how is that an "end of expansion lul" if they're continuing to put out content? That makes no sense. They're clearly able to keep up with content because that's exactly what they're doing. But what they're not doing is keeping up with ops content. So again, your "end of expansion lul" argument holds no water.

 

As for what should be prioritized when, you are certainly welcome to your opinion that operations should go over a year without being updated but I strongly disagree.

 

There is no 'raiding point of view.' There's reality and then there's how people wish it would work. It's plain that you wish that they'd put out more raids, but they're not going to do so. Not until the next expansion because that's not how it works. You have a set amount of raid content per expansion that's 'all' you get.

 

Hell, when you get down to it, there's only a certain amount of content of any kind that you're going to get per expansion and in 'this' expansion, they decided to put the focus on adding new features in the last year of the expansion's lifespan.

 

So, you should come to terms with that. Because that's how it works. Now, you're certainly free to go look for another game that updates their raiding content continuously with no regard to the expansion cycle. I'm sure you'll find loads of games that work like that. lol

 

Look, I realize you want more raids. If you just wait a few months, you'll get some. But, getting mad about it isn't going to do anything to help the situation at all.

 

You don't always get what you want. But, if you try sometime, you just might find...you get what you need.

[orontes]

on the red eclipse server, a lot of guilds have basically dissolved in the recent 2 months. Some of even the larger casual and raiding guilds started to have problems filling Operation groups, because interest in OPs decreased. I was hoping the recent stronghold update would fix the issue, yet i don't see the tides turning yet.

 

DF and DP HM feels like grinding after doing it for more then a year; SnV and TfB have some fun mechanics, but NiM isn't really rewarding (nor should it be), EV - KP - EC can be done with half the group on NiM to make it somewhat interesting, and feel less like a FP...

 

When you don't realise new group content for over a year, it's only normal people start complaining. I felt there should have been some hard Flashpoints as smaller tactical challenges released by now....

[don't you dare name the tactical fp's challenging - remember LI at release, hard yet rewarding when completed]

[DarthKartus]

Never mind. Edited September 3, 2014 by DarthKartus

[MillionsKNives]

There is no 'raiding point of view.' There's reality and then there's how people wish it would work.

 

Umm, yes there is. When I mentioned the "raiding point of view" I was looking at just the raids and not the rest of the content. Or are you saying that it's impossible to selectively look at the health and history of specific parts of the game?

 

It's plain that you wish that they'd put out more raids, but they're not going to do so. Not until the next expansion because that's not how it works. You have a set amount of raid content per expansion that's 'all' you get.

 

Hell, when you get down to it, there's only a certain amount of content of any kind that you're going to get per expansion and in 'this' expansion, they decided to put the focus on adding new features in the last year of the expansion's lifespan.

 

Yes, thank you captain obvious. Only the content that was added was added, and the content that wasn't added wasn't added. Glad we cleared that up. But again, none of this supports what you said previously:

 

End-of-expansion lull.

 

No MMO can keep up with the demand for new content.

 

Stop whining.

 

Because they have kept up with content and they have continued to release that content for the past year and a half. They just haven't kept up with operations content. And I think that's a mistake.

 

I'm not really sure why you keep going off on tangents to my posts when that is what my response was to. Your responses since have completely failed to address my actual response, and instead went off in completely different directions.

 

Look, I realize you want more raids. If you just wait a few months, you'll get some. But, getting mad about it isn't going to do anything to help the situation at all.

 

Them releasing a new ops in a few months doesn't fix the problem that they waited too long to release it. And if they continue to wait as long between future operations releases I don't think that will be a sustainable model for them.

[Infernixx]

Umm, yes there is. When I mentioned the "raiding point of view" I was looking at just the raids and not the rest of the content. Or are you saying that it's impossible to selectively look at the health and history of specific parts of the game?

 

 

 

Yes, thank you captain obvious. Only the content that was added was added, and the content that wasn't added wasn't added. Glad we cleared that up. But again, none of this supports what you said previously:

 

 

 

Because they have kept up with content and they have continued to release that content for the past year and a half. They just haven't kept up with operations content. And I think that's a mistake.

 

I'm not really sure why you keep going off on tangents to my posts when that is what my response was to. Your responses since have completely failed to address my actual response, and instead went off in completely different directions.

 

 

 

Them releasing a new ops in a few months doesn't fix the problem that they waited too long to release it. And if they continue to wait as long between future operations releases I don't think that will be a sustainable model for them.

 

`

You're getting into subjective things, like timing. Basically, it's your opinion and while it's valid and all that jazz, it's just your opinion. You 'think' this and that and the other thing, but it's all just an opinion.

 

Reality says that the game is doing fine. And it'd be silly to compare raid-content release pacing at the end of the expansion to the pacing at the beginning of the expansion. Two completely different things.

[MillionsKNives]

`

You're getting into subjective things, like timing. Basically, it's your opinion and while it's valid and all that jazz, it's just your opinion. You 'think' this and that and the other thing, but it's all just an opinion.

 

Duh. Thanks again captain obvious. You and I are both discussing our opinions.

 

Reality says that the game is doing fine. And it'd be silly to compare raid-content release pacing at the end of the expansion to the pacing at the beginning of the expansion. Two completely different things.

 

There are many different aspects to "fine", and if you look at how raiding is doing in SWTOR it doesn't look "fine". Lots of groups are dissolving or having a hard time finding enough people to run ops, because people are losing interest.

 

What pacing? There is no pacing, there is a single data point. They released a single operation since the patch. Before the expansion however, they released operations every 4 months or so.

 

You still have yet to address my initial response by the way. It's not a content lull if content is still being released, despite your initial claim otherwise.

Edited September 3, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[Infernixx]

Duh. Thanks again captain obvious. You and I are both discussing our opinions.

 

 

 

There are many different aspects to "fine", and if you look at how raiding is doing in SWTOR it doesn't look "fine". Lots of groups are dissolving or having a hard time finding enough people to run ops, because people are losing interest.

 

What pacing? There is no pacing, there is a single data point. They released a single operation since the patch. Before the expansion however, they released operations every 4 months or so.

 

You still have yet to address my initial response by the way. It's not a content lull if content is still being released, despite your initial claim otherwise.

 

The end of expansion lull is that space of time between the last raid tier and the launch of the new expansion. TOR took advantage of that lull to add in new features by other teams than the Operations team. That team is, undoubtedly, working on Expansion II Operations. That's how development works. At a certain point, they stop putting new FPs and WZs and Operations into the current expansion and start focusing on creating new stuff for the next expansion.

 

But, I'm sure you knew all that already and just wanted me to tell all the others.

 

There I go, being Captain Obvious again.

[MillionsKNives]

The end of expansion lull is that space of time between the last raid tier and the launch of the new expansion. TOR took advantage of that lull to add in new features by other teams than the Operations team. That team is, undoubtedly, working on Expansion II Operations. That's how development works. At a certain point, they stop putting new FPs and WZs and Operations into the current expansion and start focusing on creating new stuff for the next expansion.

 

But, I'm sure you knew all that already and just wanted me to tell all the others.

 

There I go, being Captain Obvious again.

 

So what you're saying is either that they thought a year+ was the right amount of time to make people wait for new operations, or that they are unable to put out more than one operation a year.

[masstershake]

I think he is saying nim was new content

[Peachbrah]

Nobody cares about hardcore players. 95% of players still haven't cleared nerfed Brontes.