PVP Help

[TalonKorr]

Maybe its me getting older, maybe its that I've been playing MMOs for the better part of fifteen years, maybe I've just seen this level of behavior too many times in the past and have to say something. So this is for everyone talking ish in this thread, and yes, I'm thinking especially of you Slipperz/Stalkuh. At the end of the day, this kind of crap does nothing but bring everybody and the community down. Getting yourselves riled up and wasting time over internet fights doesn't prove anything, you know why? Because nobody outside this game, much less the five total people going at it in this thread, care. It doesn't matter, none of it matters because its a game. You're not going to go Pro, you're not going to further your education, and you're not going to get yourself a job playing this game. Why fight over it.

 

Regarding the comments made in this thread, we should also recognize Assimilation and Resurgum as competitors last season as well. Before PM returned we scheduled games regularly against these teams and they deserve to be remembered for their contributions as well.

 

To PostMortem at large in this thread. You guys have a lot to be proud of. You have many good players and work well together. Your guild is clearly the most active and best Imperial PvP guild on the server. Currently, LD-Fifty can't even field a ranked team due to a healer shortage. Congratulations, you're top dogs. My only regret is we never saw you guys in 8v8's on this server, it would have been some great games.

 

I only play this game to continue playing with my friends. Take it from me, who you spend your time playing with is more important than what you're doing. While there are some loudmouths in our group, they have been loyal friends to me for my time here. I only point out that while you criticize them for their...bravado, consider your actions when you respond. The "he started it" defense gets old quick.

 

GG's to everyone.

[shadowopsx]

Maybe its me getting older, maybe its that I've been playing MMOs for the better part of fifteen years, maybe I've just seen this level of behavior too many times in the past and have to say something. So this is for everyone talking ish in this thread, and yes, I'm thinking especially of you Slipperz/Stalkuh. At the end of the day, this kind of crap does nothing but bring everybody and the community down. Getting yourselves riled up and wasting time over internet fights doesn't prove anything, you know why? Because nobody outside this game, much less the five total people going at it in this thread, care. It doesn't matter, none of it matters because its a game. You're not going to go Pro, you're not going to further your education, and you're not going to get yourself a job playing this game. Why fight over it.

 

Regarding the comments made in this thread, we should also recognize Assimilation and Resurgum as competitors last season as well. Before PM returned we scheduled games regularly against these teams and they deserve to be remembered for their contributions as well.

 

To PostMortem at large in this thread. You guys have a lot to be proud of. You have many good players and work well together. Your guild is clearly the most active and best Imperial PvP guild on the server. Currently, LD-Fifty can't even field a ranked team due to a healer shortage. Congratulations, you're top dogs. My only regret is we never saw you guys in 8v8's on this server, it would have been some great games.

 

I only play this game to continue playing with my friends. Take it from me, who you spend your time playing with is more important than what you're doing. While there are some loudmouths in our group, they have been loyal friends to me for my time here. I only point out that while you criticize them for their...bravado, consider your actions when you respond. The "he started it" defense gets old quick.

 

GG's to everyone.

 

Well said. As I underlined you called us top dogs but thinking about it now it isn't that huge of an accomplishment on this server. Personally *Possibly speaking for postmortem?* but the smack talk from certain players does get annoying. It's just got to the point where I'm sick of a certain LD player calling us out and masquerading as he is the best thing that happened to this game. Anyways I was just having fun with MS paint /fun [off].

[LordCaramun]

Well said. As I underlined you called us top dogs but thinking about it now it isn't that huge of an accomplishment on this server. Personally *Possibly speaking for postmortem?* but the smack talk from certain players does get annoying. It's just got to the point where I'm sick of a certain LD player calling us out and masquerading as he is the best thing that happened to this game. Anyways I was just having fun with MS paint /fun [off].

 

Canupaintjlawsboosonmybutt?

[LordCaramun]

Maybe its me getting older, maybe its that I've been playing MMOs for the better part of fifteen years, maybe I've just seen this level of behavior too many times in the past and have to say something. So this is for everyone talking ish in this thread, and yes, I'm thinking especially of you Slipperz/Stalkuh. At the end of the day, this kind of crap does nothing but bring everybody and the community down. Getting yourselves riled up and wasting time over internet fights doesn't prove anything, you know why? Because nobody outside this game, much less the five total people going at it in this thread, care. It doesn't matter, none of it matters because its a game. You're not going to go Pro, you're not going to further your education, and you're not going to get yourself a job playing this game. Why fight over it.

 

Regarding the comments made in this thread, we should also recognize Assimilation and Resurgum as competitors last season as well. Before PM returned we scheduled games regularly against these teams and they deserve to be remembered for their contributions as well.

 

To PostMortem at large in this thread. You guys have a lot to be proud of. You have many good players and work well together. Your guild is clearly the most active and best Imperial PvP guild on the server. Currently, LD-Fifty can't even field a ranked team due to a healer shortage. Congratulations, you're top dogs. My only regret is we never saw you guys in 8v8's on this server, it would have been some great games.

 

I only play this game to continue playing with my friends. Take it from me, who you spend your time playing with is more important than what you're doing. While there are some loudmouths in our group, they have been loyal friends to me for my time here. I only point out that while you criticize them for their...bravado, consider your actions when you respond. The "he started it" defense gets old quick.

 

GG's to everyone.

 

Wise man. Wise words.

[ace_boogie]

Flak ruining the thread with his maturity and ****. pfffft

 

 

y u so cool, man?

[Lanzend]

Did Flak just make everyone here look/feel like 5 yr olds. I know I do.

 

Hey isn't this thread called PVP HELP, not PVP HURT?

Edited September 23, 2014 by Lanzend

[Stepheda]

You're all ****.

 

bye

[Lanzend]

What does "ffs" mean? That's another term I see a lot on the forums.

[Lanzend]

What does "ffs" mean? That's another term I see a lot on the forums.

 

Lol! Nvrmd I googled it.

[foxmob]

Lol! Nvrmd I googled it.

 

I lul'd. tnx. <3

[happysister]

sorry for asking so many questions. i feel like a noob... so a guildie and i decided to roll new toons that we'd level together strictly with pvp. he rolled a scoundrel healer, i rolled a guardian tank. we're still babies (lvl 12), but i wanna start gathering stuff together for when my tank hits 55.

 

i have a guardian tank that i run HM ops with, but pvp tanking seems drastically different. i've heard that stacking endurance is good for tanks. if so, does it matter all that much what my mitigation stats are like? should i also prioritize skill tree skills that buff my damage more (ie. Master Focus, Perseverance, Swelling Winds) instead of ones that give me better mitigation when possible?

[TalonKorr]

sorry for asking so many questions. i feel like a noob...

 

That was the original point of this thread, don't feel bad about using it for what it was intended for.

 

Regarding tanking in PvP the short answer is no, you don't want to maximize your mitigation stats. Defense has a pretty harsh DR curve, especially for Jugg tanks thanks to 2.0. In addition since you can't shield against critical hits it makes little sense to rely on Shield/Absorb.

 

A tanks priorities are guarding players and area denial. Since guard damage can't be mitigated by defense stats it makes even less sense to prioritize them in any real fashion. Endurance has no diminishing returns and helps with healing with Endure Pain/Medpac.

 

The main disconnect people have is the concept of tanking. In PvE you stand in front of the raid boss. In PvP you increase somebody's capacity to live. They require different focuses.

 

TL: DR - Endurance is a PvP tank's best friend.

Edited September 27, 2014 by TalonKorr

[mmerry]

That was the original point of this thread, don't feel bad about using it for what it was intended for.

 

Regarding tanking in PvP the short answer is no, you don't want to maximize your mitigation stats. Defense has a pretty harsh DR curve, especially for Jugg tanks thanks to 2.0. In addition since you can't shield against critical hits it makes little sense to rely on Shield/Absorb.

 

A tanks priorities are guarding players and area denial. Since guard damage can't be mitigated by defense stats it makes even less sense to prioritize them in any real fashion. Endurance has no diminishing returns and helps with healing with Endure Pain/Medpac.

 

The main disconnect people have is the concept of tanking. In PvE you stand in front of the raid boss. In PvP you increase somebody's capacity to live. They require different focuses.

 

TL: DR - Endurance is a PvP tank's best friend.

 

This got me curious because I have heard that guard dmg can be mitigated by shield/def/absorb from other people on the forums.

 

Setup

 

Sin Tank w/ 17.94% def, 48.44% sheild w/ Dark Ward, 43% Absorb

Merc Healer

 

vs

 

Arsenal Merc

 

The Merc ran through a standard pve rotation while cloud healed himself and me. Here is the SS of parsec after we got done. Basically any kinetic and energy damage could be shielded/defended through the guard. It would probably be good to run the setup again except this time have a madness sorc attacking.

[TalonKorr]

This got me curious because I have heard that guard dmg can be mitigated by shield/def/absorb from other people on the forums.

 

I've been tanking long enough across several different metas of this game it could have changed. I would still argue that it isn't beneficial because the DR curve for Defense got crippled when 2.0 hit, and shield/absorb get maximized pretty high on the DR curve anyway when just normal gearing. I would argue that a Jugg tanks strength comes from their significantly more utility than Sins or PTs.

[mmerry]

I've been tanking long enough across several different metas of this game it could have changed. I would still argue that it isn't beneficial because the DR curve for Defense got crippled when 2.0 hit, and shield/absorb get maximized pretty high on the DR curve anyway when just normal gearing. I would argue that a Jugg tanks strength comes from their significantly more utility than Sins or PTs.

 

not arguing that.. you have way more experience than I do when it comes to tanking wz's/arenas. I just wanted to test it for myself and post the results.

 

On another note, how do you prioritize guard swaps during a heavy mid fight where multiple people are taking damage? In the handful of wz's if tanked over the past couple days that has been the most overwhelming thing for me.

[TalonKorr]

On another note, how do you prioritize guard swaps during a heavy mid fight where multiple people are taking damage? In the handful of wz's if tanked over the past couple days that has been the most overwhelming thing for me.

 

Bearing in mind the vast majority of my tanking is in 8v8 scenarios whether ranked or just regs, and my arena experience is limited to about 3/4's of season two, and I'm talking about Jugg/Guard tanking, I look at it like this: I found that as I got better using area denial techniques (roots, snares, even using myself as a distraction) that you can effectively break up dps to the point that its only one or two people who are dropping. Naturally you guard people who you know, however if we're assuming a totally theoretical situation, two people dropping and I don't know either it would go something like...heals over dps, dps over tank, assuming that we're looking at duplicate roles (i.e. dps, dps) then guard whoever is getting hit the hardest who can be saved, then throw as much CC as you can for the other guy.

[Simmerr]

I'm gonna say with 90% certainty (because I don't want to look up the original link) that guarded damage is also mitigated. Still better to have endurance stacked for PVP, mainly due to the amount of auto-crit abilities in play, and DoT damage which tends to be internal or elemental and is not shield able.

[mmerry]

Yeah that's what cloud and myself were testing. The majority of that damage in the ss of parsec was through guard. I don't know what the "optional" mitigation stats for guardian our vanguard because I don't play them, but I know that shadows have higher shield than either of them because of kinetic ward.

 

Dot damage is interesting.. the majority of dots are either internal or elemental. The only ones that I can think of that are not are force beach, interrogation probe, and crushing darkness. I'm 99% sure that you can shield them.

 

@Cates thanks, I'm going to have to pick your brain about taking some time. It definitely seems to be more engaging and challenging than dps or healing.

Edited September 27, 2014 by mmerry

[Cinerous]

Yeah that's what cloud and myself were testing. The majority of that damage in the ss of parsec was through guard. I don't know what the "optional" mitigation stats for guardian our vanguard because I don't play them, but I know that shadows have higher shield than either of them because of kinetic ward.

 

Dot damage is interesting.. the majority of dots are either internal or elemental. The only ones that I can think of that are not are force beach, interrogation probe, and crushing darkness. I'm 99% sure that you can shield them.

 

@Cates thanks, I'm going to have to pick your brain about taking some time. It definitely seems to be more engaging and challenging than dps or healing.

 

What we would run for our tanks we used for team ranked on pot5 (full tanks not hybrid tanks as those are another beast entirely) is get yourself up to about 40 k health, then we would start stacking defensive stats via augments, that way you have the health to survive teams that run dot cleaves and aoe cleaves, but you have the defensive stats to make surviving with a dps on you a little easier.

 

Some people would have 2 different tank sets, depending on what type of team they'd go against they would swap out sets, I just used one set built as I described above, just because I'm lazy and hate my juggernaut.

 

I don't know a whole lot of tanking regs because I don't do it because it's boring as hell, but from a tanks perspective, you generally want to guard the guy that is taking the most damage from a high single target class such as marks sniper deception sin carnage mara ect, or if you're not bad at the game, you can put guard on one person who is really taking the dick, and you can sit on the carnage mara or deception sin or whatever the single target class is and peel them off whoever they're on. Like I said I don't do a lot of tanking regs because frankly it's boring, but from the few times I've done it (mostly from a dps hybrid standpoint) that's how I do it. Oh and ppl in my group get guard priority over some random.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Cinerous

[Lanzend]

Poptart, I would love to do some testing with you on ttk with the 3 different shadow tank builds I use. There was a great thread in the class/roles/tanking section where kbn was looking at autocrits, shield, defense, internal etc.

 

Basically Melee/ranged is defendable and also shieldable. Force/tech that are kinetic/energy are shieldable. All internal/elemental damage bypasses shield and defense.

 

Crit chance pushes down or overwrites shield chance on the RNG scale if they overlap.

 

Simple example: An attack is made, RNG 1-100. With 40% shield chance, if the attacker "rolled" a 1-40 the attack will be shielded. Crit chance is at the top end of the 1-100 RNG attack roll, I.e. if the attack had rolled 81-100 on 20% crit chance, the attack would crit. A normal hit in this case would be if the attacker rolled a 41-80. Now lets say the attacker pops recklessness his crit chance on shock would go up to 80% (21-100 on the 1-100 attack RNG). Now becuase the crit chance is 80%(21-100) it pushes the shield chance down to 20%. (1-20). On autocrits (100%), shield is pushed completely down to 0%. This was tested by kbn popping reckless-FL several times against a tank. ALL hits were either crits or shielded, there were NO normal hits. And the # of crits vs shielded made it clear that shield chance was being overwritten by crit chance.

 

On white damage attacks, defense overwrites shield chance on the low end of the attack RNG to completly negate the damage. Example: defender has 20% defense, 40% shield and the attacker has 20% crit. White dmg attack is made, RNG 1-100. A roll of 1-20 would be defended, 21-40 shielded, 41-80 normal, 81-100 crit.

 

I'm not sure about this one but iirc: crit chance on white damage attacks does not overwrite defense. This is rarely an issue as defense is so low and there are very few white dmg attacks that can yield autocrit So you dodon't usually have an overlap. Sniper with 100% autocrit on snipe could still miss on a 1-20 roll against a 20% defense tank. I would want to test this out to make sure.

 

Internal/elemental damage completely unmitigatable aside from flat damage reduction and high health so the healer can have some room. One of the reasons darkmaul works better than full tank is the 25% DR on respite/black out.

 

Unfotunately I can't find kbn's thread anymore I think it got dumped when they re-did class forum section.

 

Basically for PvP tanking in general I stack end to 40k>shield to 50% w/KW>absorb to 40%. 0 defense in gear but every point I can take in skill tree + a redoubt relic on hand if I run into a sniper/Mara fest. Relics should be shield amp and reactive warding. Reactive warding being the best due to it absorbing all types of damage.

 

I like the idea of getting a second set of gear as Cinerous suggested. Defense heavy for Carny/Pyro comps. I guess cause the Mara is mostly white and the pyro's elemental will bypass everything anyways:rolleyes:

[mmerry]

Sure I'm down to test stuff... if I'm online I will either be in PM or rep gent if pubside.

[Rynis]

First off...Slipz I love you.

 

For tanking what Cats said is pretty good sh1zn1t. Guard the person getting **** on and single taunt/peel the dps on your unguarded. Don't overlap taunts with stuns. If you know whos calling targets on the other team focus target of target them and make them rage with mind reading guard swaps. I think of my aoe taunt as a cooldown for the whole team so its not necessarily the best strat to pop a cooldown right when the fight starts

 

When your taunts/stuns are on CD use /say and provoke your opponent.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Rynis

[Kaisenz]

Combatmedic or ripperfive is also a valuable resource and can be contacted in game to answer any questions

 

Heh... heh hehehehehehheeehahahahahahahahhhaha!!!!! Never woulda guessed by the way he treats pretty much everyone in warzones for the last... well... almost since the game was released. This has to be a trap/trolljob.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Kaisenz

[Thmsleon]

^^^ What he said.

[nitroyoshi]

am bad how to get good