Freshly 55 Mara - don't remember it being this hard to pvp

[jboxx]

I was able to hit an operative maybe once before he CC'd me, broke out, CC'd me again and commenced to kill me in a few seconds.

 

I understand I'm not geared yet, but when they're able to CC me enough to the point where I'm unable to even defend objective, I no longer feel useful. So are Maras that gimp right now?

 

I just became a subscriber again, I was hoping to have some fun at 55, but only have enough time to pvp. If this isn't the class to do it with, I would appreciate the honest feedback.

[jboxx]

This keeps getting better .... does anyone know of an AOE or a just a normal attack that mara's can use without targeting anyone??

 

Other classes have an AOE they can use without targeting an enemy.....well, this is a big deal because how else can you get stealth out? This is getting better as I go.

 

This might be a bit of venting, but I'm not willing to level another toon, supposed to be balanced. Bioware, you're about to lose another subscriber.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

This keeps getting better .... does anyone know of an AOE or a just a normal attack that mara's can use without targeting anyone??

 

Other classes have an AOE they can use without targeting an enemy.....well, this is a big deal because how else can you get stealth out? This is getting better as I go.

 

This might be a bit of venting, but I'm not willing to level another toon, supposed to be balanced. Bioware, you're about to lose another subscriber.

 

Dude, have you read how bad maras are in PvP? do yourself a favor and roll one of 3 of these classes i am about to list

 

1. Pyro Powertech

2. Engineering Sniper

3. Madness Assassin

 

Those 3 classes are the only ones that are easy to play in PvP. Marauders are so gimped in PvP it isnt even funny. you have only 1 AOE that you can use when you have no target. Sweeping Slash. So your only hope of avoiding stealthers is to use Force Camouflage.

[TACeMossie]

Dude, have you read how bad maras are in PvP? do yourself a favor and roll one of 3 of these classes i am about to list

 

1. Pyro Powertech

2. Engineering Sniper

3. Madness Assassin

 

Those 3 classes are the only ones that are easy to play in PvP. Marauders are so gimped in PvP it isnt even funny. you have only 1 AOE that you can use when you have no target. Sweeping Slash. So your only hope of avoiding stealthers is to use Force Camouflage.

 

You forgot:

 

Madness Sorc

Lethality Sniper (currently better than engi)

Jugg (any spec)

Carnage Marauder

Medicine Operative

 

Also if you think marauders are squishy, try using one with only cloak of pain and undying rage, and if you use the AoE mezz you have to break it 3 seconds later

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

You forgot:

 

Madness Sorc

Lethality Sniper (currently better than engi)

Jugg (any spec)

Carnage Marauder

Medicine Operative

 

Also if you think marauders are squishy, try using one with only cloak of pain and undying rage, and if you use the AoE mezz you have to break it 3 seconds later

 

I think it's debatable weather Leth > Engi because Engi has a 2s hard stun every 18 seconds to line up it's heavy burst and it has some of the best defences in the game, and Scatter Bombs are still brokenly OP in PvP if you can line up enough people. Madness Sorc suffers from channel time problems. Juggs are damn near invincible, Carnage is countered by any class with a hardstun and a knockback. and Medicine Ops are countered by any class with the Trauma Debuff. So, while those classes are good, Engi's only issue is when people get out of range. Pyro PT is a ticket to Godmode without hacking, and Madness Sin's have DoT self-healing OPness.

 

Still dude, Marauders arent good in PvP right now, come back after 3.0 you may get redemption then.

[MsMalice]

Don't use your break on their first stun, wait until you are at full resolve before you use it. Concealment operatives can be one of the hardest classes to 1v1, it's just the way their spec works with stealth/burst damage.

[Dasem]

Don't use your break on their first stun, wait until you are at full resolve before you use it. Concealment operatives can be one of the hardest classes to 1v1, it's just the way their spec works with stealth/burst damage.

 

The issue is that Marauders have nothing in their toolbox. I have a Concealment Op and a Marauder. Op is easier to play, does more damage, and has a lot more tricks up his sleeve.

 

Marauder? There's been times where I last about 10 seconds.

 

I've had my Op get ambushed by two other players, and I came out on top, still with 1/3rd of my health.

 

When my Marauder gets into that situation? Why bother going through the animations, just put the REVIVE option up on my screen.

[Unperson]

You are all wrong. Bioware have determined through their Ranked metrics-scrying hocus-pocus that Maras/Sents are just fine with regards to survivability. END OF THREAD

 

Though,

 

I understand I'm not geared yet,

 

That is a problem right there. PVP @ 55 with any ungeared character is going to be painful, it just so happens that for Marauders it's still painful even fully geared. As a Marauder in regs you need to remember that:

 

- Charge is in fact not your go-to gap closer and Rage builder. It's actually something you use after you've been knocked around like a ping pong ball

- Even though you are a "Warrior", your place is NOT on the front lines and you should view your teammates as meatshields first and foremost

- Do not go in for the kill before your teammates have depleted the enemy CC capacity

- Do not, under any circumstances, draw attention to yourself and if for whatever reason you do, get the duck outta fodge

- Do not use your CC breaker unless whitebarred, and even then decide if it's worth it before you do

- Unless you are a pr0 2000+ rated, lightning drinking, thunder crapping DPS prodigy and/or the other guy is in a vegetative state, you cannot kill a healer by yourself (before backup arrives, anyway), so do not tunnel them

- A Marauder should *never* defend a node by himself

- Don't bother Ravaging unless whitebarred or against hard stunned opponents (ingame or IRL)

- Suck up to the healer

- Suck up to the tank

 

Or, alternatively,

 

- Reroll Juggernaut

 

Don't get me wrong, dropping that extremely annoying chuckling Scoundrel with the great burst potential a Mara is capable of is like drinking the nectar of the gods. It just doesn't happen very often in regs because people tend to focus Maras as a matter of course and in that situation we go down like flies.

[thekashif]

You are all wrong. Bioware have determined through their Ranked metrics-scrying hocus-pocus that Maras/Sents are just fine with regards to survivability. END OF THREAD

 

.

 

Not end of thread, that applies to Ranked only. In an 8 on 8 situation Mara's will get stun locked and melted pretty consistently unless they have a lot of support. They are utter glass cannons and it takes a lot of situational awareness and carefully choosing your battles to counter this which is counter intuitive considering the classes abilities are all based around jumping right into battle. I play enough pvp that I'm used to it but it would be annoying to someone just coming back in and playing a match for fun.

 

Edit: reread your post, you do seem to have a decent understanding of this

Edited August 28, 2014 by thekashif

[AngusFTW]

Marauders are fine, the qq comes from smash facerollers who are still mad that dumb spec got nerfed(BTW IT ISNT EVEN BAD NOW) and anyone that isnt that are just jelly of jug/guardian getting a ridiculously op cd. Marauder/sentinel still awesome in team play and still does high dmg.

[Prototypemind]

Marauders go squish like nothing else this side of Sorcs/Sages. You do have good damage output, but you will be priority number one if you leap into the fray, because you are easy to murder. If you're stunlocked, you can't even use your emergency cooldown, unlock Juggs who can ED and laugh their way through it. UR saves you, only to drop half your health.

 

My Mara is my main PvP too and fully geared, but I can hop in on my fully PvE Jugg and compete relatively well while pissing healers off to no end with all the stuns and interrupts, as well as laughing it up when I saber reflect an ambush or railshot back into someone's face.

 

Maras aren't hard to melt the competition with, but their survivability is not very good for a class that has to work up close and as such has no chance to LoS any return fire. If you can get your attacks off in Carnage, it's still quite viable, or at least will be until the next update, when it will become somewhat of a pain with the changes to Gore.

 

As someone mentioned in a rather unhappy thread, all that needed to happen with Maras was to make it so that UR doesn't burn half your health, and IMO is usable while stunned, but that's about it. As we are, we just are not desirable for Ranked, solo or grouped, and in regs we are fodder if we don't have a pocket healer. The only thing that gets tunneled harder than a nearby healer is a nearby Mara/Sent, because they will pop with ease.

[Tellenn]

Reroll Jugg

[AngusFTW]

Marauders go squish like nothing else this side of Sorcs/Sages.

Outside of jugs/guardians, name another meelee class with more survive-ability then a sentinel/mara.

[thekashif]

Outside of jugs/guardians, name another meelee class with more survive-ability then a sentinel/mara.

 

Assassins? Their stealth and number of stuns tend to make up for the fact that they are easier to murder when they are pulled into a straight fight. Sure as a Mara I will consistently beat any assassin if it comes to just lightsabering but Assassins have so many more tools then I do and are generally more useful to the team. Multiple stuns, force speed, stealth and their few shared abilities with sorcerers make them way more deadly, at least when I am playing them.

[Unperson]

Assassins? Their stealth and number of stuns tend to make up for the fact that they are easier to murder when they are pulled into a straight fight. Sure as a Mara I will consistently beat any assassin if it comes to just lightsabering but Assassins have so many more tools then I do and are generally more useful to the team. Multiple stuns, force speed, stealth and their few shared abilities with sorcerers make them way more deadly, at least when I am playing them.

 

Op/Scoundrel can also roll away and offheal on top of stuns and going *poof*.

 

Yeah... just about any melee class has more survivability than Maras mostly because how abundant stuns, knockbacks and roots/slows are and how resolve works at present. The actual DCDs are pretty good (barring UR), but the instant you pop Saber Ward, they are going to drop a stun on you -- they call it "counterplay". There is no counterplay to being chain stunned and mowed down as a Mara, though.

 

It doesn't matter, anyway. People are arguing different things. Mara is probably ok in team Ranked and therefore for some people no changes are warranted -- despite the fact that team Ranked is a very small fraction of all PVP matches. Logic!

Edited August 29, 2014 by Unperson

[Tevzz]

Marauders are fine, the qq comes from smash facerollers who are still mad that dumb spec got nerfed(BTW IT ISNT EVEN BAD NOW) and anyone that isnt that are just jelly of jug/guardian getting a ridiculously op cd. Marauder/sentinel still awesome in team play and still does high dmg.

 

^This. Mara survivability is the same as it always was, except for the UR nerf, which isn't the end of the world, Derps just haven't figured out yet that they can't play the class with the old Smash mentality of jumping in a cluster**** of 5 ranged and smashing each of them for 8k+. Even while playing Smash you can't just charge in...you're asking to get melted. Pick targets that are already busy and they'll go down pretty fast, but don't jump the lonely range in the back line or half of his team is guaranteed to target you.

 

Barely anything about the class has changed, the fact that ranged have been buffed does not change anything, everybody eats more damage and dies faster in general, not just us. I'm kind of getting pissed of all the "Maras are terrible in PvP" ********, play smart and you'll do well. Tunnel like a derp, and you'll die. Learning the proper moment to use camo is also a good idea...aka not at random *** moments when you're barely getting focused.

 

Heck, Anni pulls monster DPS if you can stick to your targets and Smash can still top the charts without any problems. Nobody should be having trouble doing over 1k dps with Smash in a solo Q WZ without a healer backing you up. If you're seeing Juggs outdmging you, they're either better players, or you're lacking. A mara is much less susceptible to kiting and does better DPS in general.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Tevzz

[XeniusX]

Outside of jugs/guardians, name another meelee class with more survive-ability then a sentinel/mara.

 

Euhm.. PT's and assassin are generally more survivable, both have less dmg taken while stunned and KO is always available and is almost on par with ED because of the impossibleness to kill them when Pyro pops it, its not over the top because they don't go above 30 % health. also in a 1v1 u can controll it with a mezz or something. Sins also have deflection, shroud, stealth, teleport (2 things to get out of doge) and their AOE taunt is a dmg red or that sneak button if middle tree.

 

We are not squishy though and ED is just over the top good. Why can they pop this while stunned also ? so stupid.

 

To OP: It is a pain in the butt and it takes so much out of you to play marauder/sentinel these days as some have posted before me, most classes and specs in this game are easier and better to start with. Marauders are awesome in a team setting though and it's very rewarding to play one if you are 2 dps back to back.

 

In order to enjoy this game, do yourself a favor and get a team, get some friends and queue together, grow together.

[AngusFTW]

pts while fairly tanky with cds, will die fast without support when they don't have there 2 cds... and they have no "oh crap" cd like camo which a sentinel/marauder has. Sins/shadows are squishy as well they cant really go mid fight like a sentinel/marauder. Outside of the aoe taunt cd madness has if i tunnel a shadow without his cds he will die. While rebuke/cop and camo alone makes sentine/marauder a pretty sturdy class for that purpose (with heals ofc ) Edited August 30, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Jayshames]

You're asking if Marauders are fine in the Marauder forum. Ofcourse you're going to get people saying "NO WE ARE WORST CLASS WE NEED BUFF"

 

Marauders are fine where they are.

 

As for AoE. Classes are intended to be different, but yes.. you do have an AoE cleave that you can use.

[Unperson]

You're asking if Marauders are fine in the Marauder forum. Ofcourse you're going to get people saying "NO WE ARE WORST CLASS WE NEED BUFF"

 

Marauders are fine where they are.

 

Well, duh. Where would you expect Marauder players to go discuss the class and ask for advice to play around its perceived weaknesses? Planet Minecraft?

 

The complaints all have one element in common, and it's the stundeath. It's a symptom of the larger problem -- the CC-fest 8v8s have become and how half-assed a solution resolve currently is. Because gameplay that revolves around pressing one key and taking the other guy out of the fight for X seconds AND NOTHING HE CAN DO ABOUT IT is apparently great design that promotes thoughtful tactics and skillful play. But then those who raise this issue are told by team Ranked pr0s, premaders and people who don't actually play the class that we need to "L2P" and "stop QQing".

 

Yep, Marauders are completely fine. That's why the best solo Ranked Mara/Sent player is #46 on the leaderboards.

 

The internet really is a curious place. But hey, don't let me get in the way of your strawmanning fun.

[AngusFTW]

Solo ranked.. should not be any indication since it has 4 dps games and they are stupid. Juggernauts have the edge on those games but in actual teamplay mara is still better

but lets be honest

I'm sick of these debates so im jus gonna stop.

[EilahFinn]

Hard time in pvp?

Seeking to stay alive for some more seconds?^^

 

In this case Juyo is a good and solid answer for random battlegrounds.

It´s fast skillwise (except for the ramp up time - but no great procc or time window thingy^^) and it keeps working for you while beeing cced f. e..

Juyo is about qol.^^

If there is no heal or good heal in your group and you´re experiencing these circumstances repeatedly, go for Juyo.

It will provide you with some more seconds... for anything.

You´ve got some mobility and interrupts (f. e. due to the shortened force jump).

But it´s not worse than for any other melee class

It is as it is for any of them: No fiddling around, just reacting, moving and keeping the eyes open.

 

 

 

Going with a premade group? Ataru and you will have much fun. No compromise there.

Edited September 1, 2014 by EilahFinn

[Ramtar]

Solo ranked.. should not be any indication since it has 4 dps games and they are stupid. Juggernauts have the edge on those games but in actual teamplay mara is still better

but lets be honest

I'm sick of these debates so im jus gonna stop.

 

Sorry, but Solo rank indicates a lot. It indicates how ACs interact with others and against 4 other adversaries. As you said it's 4 dps games and there are only 4 pure dps ACs: Sniper/Gunslinger/Sentinel/Marauder. Sniper/Gunslinger finished #9 and #20 and Sentinel/Marauder finished #46. The Sentinel had the highest MVPs: 1458 and 3 highest wins: 799. These are the numbers of the ACs in the top 50 Solo Ranking:

 

Sage/Sorcerer: 10

Guardian/Juggernaut: 7

Scoundrel/Operative: 10

Shadow/Assassin: 9

Vanguard/Powertech: 6

Commando/Mercenary: 5

Gunslinger/Sniper: 2

Sentinel/Marauder: 1

 

Bottom line is Sentinel/Marauder has great DPS, but it's survivability is lacking. Hybrid ACs: Healing/DPS or Tank/DPS are King/Queen while pure DPS are Jesters.

Edited September 1, 2014 by Ramtar

[AngusFTW]

Except the survivability isnt lacking. Its just lacking by itself and only in comparison to like one other class. The class is extremely good with a healer and they are extremely easy to heal.

solo ranked is so ridiculously rng based and full of stupid crap that really it can't be judged on that. No serious player cares about that.

Edited September 1, 2014 by AngusFTW

[XeniusX]

pts while fairly tanky with cds, will die fast without support when they don't have there 2 cds... and they have no "oh crap" cd like camo which a sentinel/marauder has. Sins/shadows are squishy as well they cant really go mid fight like a sentinel/marauder. Outside of the aoe taunt cd madness has if i tunnel a shadow without his cds he will die. While rebuke/cop and camo alone makes sentine/marauder a pretty sturdy class for that purpose (with heals ofc )

 

Well, PT's pretty much always have their 2 CD's up and if not they can just pop HO and run around kiting. If you play PT reasonably well you will take more dmg and die a lot less even with heals in the back in comparison to a marauder. This is what i see every day queueing with one.

 

Sins/shadows are squishy wihtout Deflection but they have ways of gettiing out of burst while stunlocked and schroud is available every 1 min. tougher to heal yes, but tougher to kill if played correctly.

 

Camo is the greatest weapon of a marauder and without it the class would be useless imo. CoP is fine when focused but vs good teams they will leave you alone for a few seconds and come back and stunlock you for a burst kill, not hard to do at all. Sents and maras are my first target after the ranged is gone.