Ideas to balance the overpowerd assassins, and madness sorcerers.

[foxmob]

last thing i'll say in this thread. the only people i ever hear in any of my guilds or on the server complain about sorcs are the people that still try to face tank them like they did in the days of old, i.e. the people that dont want to learn to adapt.

 

iunno. if you can't face tank a sorc, what can you face tank? I mean...it's supposed to be the most fragile class in the game, no? (actually, no. cuz armor rating means next to nothing in this game but still. lol)

[Kainozorva]

Sounds like someone is mad that a bad Madness Sorc is topping them on the WZ DPS chart.

^this

[PloGreen]

i also dont know why you are arguing with me, im making a case for you sorcs. you guys dont need a nerf, slightly tuned a different way, yes. but no need to cry op of nerf nao.

 

i guess you guys want to be nerfed judging how defensive you are getting?

 

I don't know if that guy is an experienced sorc (I'm guessing not) but most of the qq about sorc seems to come from melee players. Specifically because there's more ranged in their warzones.

 

When there's more melee do I call for nerfs? No.

 

Nothing wrong with the sorc ac, this qq is just funny to me.

Edited September 2, 2014 by PloGreen

[PloGreen]

iunno. if you can't face tank a sorc, what can you face tank? I mean...it's supposed to be the most fragile class in the game, no? (actually, no. cuz armor rating means next to nothing in this game but still. lol)

 

They are the most fragile class in the game. Focus them, force them to barrier then wait 5 seconds do it again. It's not rocket science. Hell if your a merc you don't even have to do that.

 

Not sure why people have trouble killing sage or sorc tbh, just need to think a bit more these days than in previous patches. Kiting is good 1v1, but they cannot handle multiple classes since their defences are tied to their force resources. This is why they were given barrier in the first place, because everyone used to focus them because it was easy. Now it's not as easy, you have to actually think about what cool downs they have used, if they have use their force speed or whatever, and when to time your leaps and pulls, not really a big deal if you are smart enough.

 

The class is still very dependent on movement for defence and Los, so a smart player realises and tells the team to stop the high damage dot class from doing it's job. Weaknesses are still the same.

 

It's can't 1 v 1 every class either, so not sure why some people think they are unkillable. Good sorc are formidable but that gos for a lot of players on a lot of classes.

 

Lastly most sorc are terrible anyway, but reading through a lot of the sorc qq (remove the 50% snare is the latest bandwagon, a channeled move which you have to be stationary to cast..) I'm starting to think there's a lot of terrible melee players on some of these servers. I certainly don't think sorc are a big deal on all my melee classes but maybe that's because I have played a sorc for years and a lot of these newbie sorc don't understand the class very well.

 

I dunno I just think people have forgotten that focusing sorc still works really well, especially for melee.

 

Having too many of any ac is a warzone is not a reason to nerf them, that's for sure. That's a matchmaking issue.

Edited September 2, 2014 by PloGreen

[MusicRider]

Can we leave sorcs alone for once and especially madness as it is the only viable spec they have for ranked? Take that and you will force the remaining 50% of the population to play the skank healing hybrid and then you will see real tears.

 

Besides, class balance is pretty close at the moment... so when sorcs were underdogs for a long time their defence was to learn their class to the best they can... of course now with balance between classes they will appear too strong to people that were used to be carried by their classes... raise your skill and l2p, your class is fine.

[Tevzz]

Having too many of any ac is a warzone is not a reason to nerf them, that's for sure. That's a matchmaking issue.

 

I disagree with that. Having too many of any AC in multiple consecutive WZ's all day everyday IS a reason to look at why exactly this is the case. In most cases it's because the AC has a FOTM spec that outperforms most other specs in the game. Remember how it was with the Smashers that every bad cried about? You had like 4-6 in a WZ if not more sometimes. When too many people play a spec it's enough to show there's something wrong with it.

 

Why do you think sorcs represent the highest % of ranged classes and are usually the ones topping the charts by far? It's definitely not because everybody suddenly felt in the mood to play their Sorc and that all of them just instantly got better at it. There's plenty of squishy specs out there, melee and ranged, yet very very few of them have a Madness sorc's dmg output. Even if the damage - survivability ratio for sorcs is lolzy that doesn't mean it's justified, as I said, other classes are squishy; yet, they don't have the same dmg output. Therefore, being squishy isn't a reason to justify having very high DPS.

[PloGreen]

I disagree with that. Having too many of any AC in multiple consecutive WZ's all day everyday IS a reason to look at why exactly this is the case. In most cases it's because the AC has a FOTM spec that outperforms most other specs in the game. Remember how it was with the Smashers that every bad cried about? You had like 4-6 in a WZ if not more sometimes. When too many people play a spec it's enough to show there's something wrong with it.

 

Why do you think sorcs represent the highest % of ranged classes and are usually the ones topping the charts by far? It's definitely not because everybody suddenly felt in the mood to play their Sorc and that all of them just instantly got better at it. There's plenty of squishy specs out there, melee and ranged, yet very very few of them have a Madness sorc's dmg output. Even if the damage - survivability ratio for sorcs is lolzy that doesn't mean it's justified, as I said, other classes are squishy; yet, they don't have the same dmg output. Therefore, being squishy isn't a reason to justify having very high DPS.

 

Of course you disagree, you are one of the people who think they need nerfing, and this is a common complaint. But what you fail to address is what it's like to be a sorc when faced by multiple melee classes. It's pretty much the same. If you would like to tell me its different and explain how a single ranged class can survive multiple melee of the same ac be my guest. You can't, because they can't.

 

They represent the highest of ranged classes because they are the best ranged class... A sniper is limited in what it can do. What kind if argument is that? Because they are the best ranged class they are op?

 

Lastly yes they top the charts (so what), if you knew how the spec works you'd know why - you have to pump a lot of damage in to things to kill them, stack multiple dots and death marks. This isn't burst spec damage, it's pressure - key word here. Pressure means lots of dots that are being combated by heals and you are racing with those healers a lot of the time, and occasionally throwing weaken mind on more than one target. Some io that damage is fluff, some of it is being overhealed. Most good sorc are throwing out consistent dps of about 1200+, that's not ott considering their entire defences are tied to the same force pool as their offense.

 

The argument that more of them is the reason they are op is weak tbh, especially considering most of them can't do it right. People read form and try the spec out but most struggle with it. All of the sorc in the game didn't get better at playing sorc overnight if that's what your saying, if you honestly think that I don't know what to tell you, coz that statement is just ridiculous.

Edited September 2, 2014 by PloGreen

[MusicRider]

Mate you have so much mis-information on this post that I don't even know where to start from.

 

I disagree with that. Having too many of any AC in multiple consecutive WZ's all day everyday IS a reason to look at why exactly this is the case. In most cases it's because the AC has a FOTM spec that outperforms most other specs in the game. Remember how it was with the Smashers that every bad cried about? You had like 4-6 in a WZ if not more sometimes. When too many people play a spec it's enough to show there's something wrong with it.

I highlight you why your whole paragraph is self-contradictory. For your information smash was OP, and I speak for this as a sentinel. Post-nerf era all these bads that "excelled" started crying about the state of the sentinel as unlike focus the other two trees require some skill to be played well... the class is perfectly fine and it is the number uno class for organised pvp.

 

Why do you think sorcs represent the highest % of ranged classes and are usually the ones topping the charts by far?

There is an equal amount of the other two ranged classes in warzones and they are doing just fine as they always did.

 

It's definitely not because everybody suddenly felt in the mood to play their Sorc and that all of them just instantly got better at it.

With posts like this of course people jump to play a sorc, then they see how hard it is to play successfully and then come crying to the forums for buffs... The ones that top the charts were topping the charts before... just like all the other excellent players of their classes. Except now only focus players have the rug pulled under their feet.

 

There's plenty of squishy specs out there, melee and ranged, yet very very few of them have a Madness sorc's dmg output. Even if the damage - survivability ratio for sorcs is lolzy that doesn't mean it's justified, as I said, other classes are squishy; yet, they don't have the same dmg output.

Wrong and wrong. There is no other class as squishy as a sage and all classes have the damage output of a sorc, in fact some even better so depending on how you measure damage output.

 

Therefore, being squishy isn't a reason to justify having very high DPS.

Of course it is. And dps is not the whole story. In fact, if telekinetics was more mobile it would be the most preferred spec for sages, even if its dps is lower than balance. For the same reasons that carnage is the best spec for a mara even in the "glorious" days of smash.

Edited September 2, 2014 by MusicRider

[Ramtar]

the only way to balance these ACs is to either buff the ACs that are lacking against them or nerf these ACs. Easy way and the most painful for the players is to nerf them. Wouldn't bother me if both ACs got nerfed into the dirt because I don't play either.

 

 

There is an equal amount of the other two ranged classes in warzones and they are doing just fine as they always did.

 

 

I been in warzones where there wasn't any sniper, 1 Merc and at least 3-5 Sorcerers or Assassins

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ramtar

[ekolan]

There is an equal amount of the other two ranged classes in warzones and they are doing just fine as they always did.

http://i.imgur.com/nDChGhL.jpg

 

This isn't a random occurance. depending on how much i play, i see 5+ madness spec AC's in a warzone at least 6/7 times a day.

 

I would also like to point out in this screenshot - this was a game i decided to "test" the utter stupidity of madness sorcerer. I used ONLY creeping terror, and force lightening on all targets. 985 dps while using 2 buttons, all the while being focused the most out of everyone for some odd reason. i was 15 dps short of 1k dps, all while not using affliction, deathfield, crushing darkness, or lightening strike......................................................

 

Did this team get farmed? yes, i would actually imagine that my dps should of been higher but targets were dying relatively quick. I also ate a long bridge death during defense due to constant focus. so any arguments made that they were bads, or they got farmed so your dps wouldnt be high against better players is actually false. had this been a long fight, my dps would have been in the 1200s due to creeping terror actually getting to do its damage.

 

madness needs a nerf, not because its damage is OP. but because paired with its utility and ability to stay at ranged a majority of the time, the class can put out more damage then any mercenary or sniper can, while taking more focus then either ranged class.

 

I dont want it nerfed to the ground, but its slightly out of tune causing more people to play the spec. thus turning reg warzones into a ranged dominant game. 7 creeping terrors in one game?

[PloGreen]

http://i.imgur.com/nDChGhL.jpg

 

This isn't a random occurance. depending on how much i play, i see 5+ madness spec AC's in a warzone at least 6/7 times a day.

 

I would also like to point out in this screenshot - this was a game i decided to "test" the utter stupidity of madness sorcerer. I used ONLY creeping terror, and force lightening on all targets. 985 dps while using 2 buttons, all the while being focused the most out of everyone for some odd reason. i was 15 dps short of 1k dps, all while not using affliction, deathfield, crushing darkness, or lightening strike......................................................

 

Did this team get farmed? yes, i would actually imagine that my dps should of been higher but targets were dying relatively quick. I also ate a long bridge death during defense due to constant focus. so any arguments made that they were bads, or they got farmed so your dps wouldnt be high against better players is actually false. had this been a long fight, my dps would have been in the 1200s due to creeping terror actually getting to do its damage.

 

madness needs a nerf, not because its damage is OP. but because paired with its utility and ability to stay at ranged a majority of the time, the class can put out more damage then any mercenary or sniper can, while taking more focus then either ranged class.

 

I dont want it nerfed to the ground, but its slightly out of tune causing more people to play the spec. thus turning reg warzones into a ranged dominant game. 7 creeping terrors in one game?

 

Yes let's balance the game around stacked classes, what a wonderful idea..

[PloGreen]

the only way to balance these ACs is to either buff the ACs that are lacking against them or to nerf these ACs. Easy way and the most painful for the players is to nerf them. Wouldn't bother me if both ACs got nerfed into the dirt because I don't play either.

 

 

 

I been in warzones where there wasn't any sniper, 1 Merc and at least 3-5 Sorcerers or Assassins

 

No offense but out of all the qq from anyone who talks about sorc being op yours is the most desperate and misinformed.

 

The fact you don't play them comes as no surprise at all.

Edited September 2, 2014 by PloGreen

[Ramtar]

No offense but out of all the qq from anyone who talks about sorc being op yours is the most desperate and misinformed.

 

The fact you don't play them comes as no surprise at all.

 

I take no offense and speak my mind.

 

Why should I play them? I faced enough of these ACs to know they should either: be nerfed or buff the other ACs to include 30-40% DoT protection. Numbers don't lie because out of S-2 top 50 solo Ranked ACs: 10 were Sorcerer/Sage and 9 were Assassin/Shadow. Scoundrel/Operative, also, had 10 in S-2 top 50 solo Ranked ACs.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ramtar

[PloGreen]

I take no offense and speak my mind.

 

Why should I play them? I faced enough of these ACs to know they should either: be nerfed or buff the other ACs to include 30-40% DoT protection. Numbers don't lie because out of S-2 top 50 solo Ranked ACs: 10 were Sorcerer/Sage and 9 were Assassin/Shadow. Scoundrel/Operative, also, had 10 in S-2 top 50 solo Ranked ACs.

 

Because you have no idea what it's like to play as one and have a complete lack of understanding of how they work that's why. You have no idea about the class. I can speak about sents because I have one at 55 and know all three specs yet in another post you say they are free kills, which is utter nonsense.

 

The only way to understand a class is to play it, it's the best way to figure out how to counter it and gives you a more well rounded perspective.

Edited September 2, 2014 by PloGreen

[cs_zoltan]

Yes let's balance the game around stacked classes, what a wonderful idea..

But what you fail to address is what it's like to be a sorc when faced by multiple melee classes. It's pretty much the same. If you would like to tell me its different and explain how a single ranged class can survive multiple melee of the same ac be my guest.

 

[ekolan]

Yes let's balance the game around stacked classes, what a wonderful idea..

 

instead of insulting my post, and forming the extremely close minded opinion that i was saying we needed to "balance" around stacked classes. why don't you offer something other then "EH UHM, MADNESS IS FINE, TOTALLY NOT OP"

 

 

Now, I have no idea how to play madness. probably have around 3/4 hours played in pvp as a madness sorcerer. i did 1k dps with 2 buttons(on the low end) i also accept the fact that i'm a decent player so ill see higher numbers then the average Joe, but again.... I dont play madness...

 

One could also argue that this is just a phase. Currently Bioware has been tweaking "DoT" specializations heavily, If you head over to the flash-points/Operations section and pull up 2.9 DPS leader-boards, you'll find that madness hold the #1 and #4 parse, followed by the recently changed pyro and annihilation at #2 and #3. Maybe they will look to change this over time. But i feel as if they have overdone it with madness.

[PloGreen]

 

If you are trying to be clever and saying that's this is contradictory it really isn't it's supportive of the whole argument. People are arguing for balance based on multiple acs of the same type I was illustrating it's the same for ranged vs multiple melee.

 

If you are going to cherry pick different parts of people posts without the proper context in then at you

[PloGreen]

instead of insulting my post, and forming the extremely close minded opinion that i was saying we needed to "balance" around stacked classes. why don't you offer something other then "EH UHM, MADNESS IS FINE, TOTALLY NOT OP"

 

 

Now, I have no idea how to play madness. probably have around 3/4 hours played in pvp as a madness sorcerer. i did 1k dps with 2 buttons(on the low end) i also accept the fact that i'm a decent player so ill see higher numbers then the average Joe, but again.... I dont play madness...

 

One could also argue that this is just a phase. Currently Bioware has been tweaking "DoT" specializations heavily, If you head over to the flash-points/Operations section and pull up 2.9 DPS leader-boards, you'll find that madness hold the #1 and #4 parse, followed by the recently changed pyro and annihilation at #2 and #3. Maybe they will look to change this over time. But i feel as if they have overdone it with madness.

 

So you have no idea how to play a class and you think this gives you a basis for how it works and a balanced opinion on the class? And you think being in a warzone with multiple classes on the same ac doesn't skew the balance argument at all?

 

Ok.

[ekolan]

So you have no idea how to play a class and you think this gives you a basis for how it works and a balanced opinion on the class? And you think being in a warzone with multiple classes on the same ac doesn't skew the balance argument at all?

 

Ok.

 

I'm confused as to what you're even trying to prove? that madness is fine? that its not OP? Maybe i need to spell it out for you since you cant read between the lines.

 

I'm not saying it should be balanced because there is multiple AC's in a single war-zone, its merely one of the examples I am providing. The other example being that i rarely play the class, yet i can push 1k dps with 2 buttons.. 2 buttons... We'll continue to ignore that though. Instead we can address why its so FoTM (flavor of the month) were spelling things out for you, remember?

 

The spec is over-powered in PvP.. It was powerful before the buff to Creeping terror, and 25% damage increase to force lightening. But not so powerful that anyone could jump on and do 1k+ DPS, while kiting melee around the map. It had a skill gap, but now the skill gap is gone.

now the damage pushing out from madness has gotten out of hand. paired with the utility that its had, along with what its about to receive in 2.10 (UP off the GcD and 20% armor) it will just continue to rise in popularity.

 

I'll say it one more time though.. The damage alone is not over powered, the utility alone is not overpowered. But combining both the utility and damage of a madness sorcerer has pushed the class to the FoTM and OP stage.

 

Something that would help would be to add some complexity to the rotation. currently its just dots > death-field > lightening or dots > death-field > thrash

[Ramtar]

Because you have no idea what it's like to play as one and have a complete lack of understanding of how they work that's why. You have no idea about the class. I can speak about sents because I have one at 55 and know all three specs yet in another post you say they are free kills, which is utter nonsense.

 

The only way to understand a class is to play it, it's the best way to figure out how to counter it and gives you a more well rounded perspective.

 

Sentinel are free kills and everyone knows it. Stun lock them and they are dead. Defense cool downs are too long compared to other ACs with similar abilities. There are 4 viable specs to a Sentinel: hybrid Watchman/Combat, Watchman, Combat and Focus.

 

The best way to understand any AC is to play against them, and then ask for my AC to be buffed to counter or have those ACs nerfed. Players will choose to have the ACs nerfed and for devs it's the easiest path to take.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ramtar

[PloGreen]

Sentinel are free kills and everyone knows it. Stun lock them and they are dead. Defense cool downs are too long compared to other ACs with similar abilities. There are 4 viable specs to a Sentinel: hybrid Watchman/Combat, Watchman, Combat and Focus.

 

The best way to understand any AC is to play against them, and then ask for my AC to be buffed to counter or have those ACs nerfed. Players will choose to have the ACs nerfed and for devs it's the easiest path to take.

 

See. Just no, this is what bad players do they cry for nerfs because they don't understand how to play an ac or how other classes work. The fact you think a sent is a free kill tells me all I need to know.

[PloGreen]

I'm confused as to what you're even trying to prove? that madness is fine? that its not OP? Maybe i need to spell it out for you since you cant read between the lines.

 

I'm not saying it should be balanced because there is multiple AC's in a single war-zone, its merely one of the examples I am providing. The other example being that i rarely play the class, yet i can push 1k dps with 2 buttons.. 2 buttons... We'll continue to ignore that though. Instead we can address why its so FoTM (flavor of the month) were spelling things out for you, remember?

 

The spec is over-powered in PvP.. It was powerful before the buff to Creeping terror, and 25% damage increase to force lightening. But not so powerful that anyone could jump on and do 1k+ DPS, while kiting melee around the map. It had a skill gap, but now the skill gap is gone.

now the damage pushing out from madness has gotten out of hand. paired with the utility that its had, along with what its about to receive in 2.10 (UP off the GcD and 20% armor) it will just continue to rise in popularity.

 

I'll say it one more time though.. The damage alone is not over powered, the utility alone is not overpowered. But combining both the utility and damage of a madness sorcerer has pushed the class to the FoTM and OP stage.

 

Something that would help would be to add some complexity to the rotation. currently its just dots > death-field > lightening or dots > death-field > thrash

 

The point is not anyone can play a sorc well, you people are so fixated on these end game numbers. Damage application is easy, movement, positioning and awareness is what makes a good sorcerer. Not pushing a few buttons and going omg I can get big numbers (big deal, news flash - free casting classes do big numbers if they are allowed to free cast). There spelt that out for you, since you seem to be ignoring the significance of multiple classes if the same acs in your example.

 

Anyone can fluff damage and get a maximum hit of 2k. Good luck killing anyone with a clue doing that though. You are dotting people once and pumping people full of damage from lightning and not killing anything on your own and if they are dropping like flies it's because you are running with multiple acs of the same class.. Do you not see how this is relevant at all? That the amount of acs in the warzone and the type of acs is relevant to your example? Otherwise why did you post that screenshot?

 

You were basing your argument on your example so I'm not trying to prove anything just point out the flaws in your example and your conclusion. I know what sorc is capable of and I know most can't play it well.

 

We will have to agree to disagree, it's utility, damage and defences are directly related to it's force resources. Which are not plentiful especially if you pick up egress. That's a major weakness that can be exploited by people who know how to counter them.

 

You have had 3 hours on the class and you think this gives you an informed opinion on the skill it takes to play one. If the other team let's you free cast and your playing against baddie sorc you act surprised you can put out 1k dps? Play people with a clue and get back to me.

Edited September 2, 2014 by PloGreen

[ekolan]

The point is not anyone can play a sorc well, you people are so fixated on these end game numbers. Damage application is easy, movement, positioning and awareness is what makes a good sorcerer. Not pushing a few buttons and going omg I can get big numbers (big deal, news flash - free casting classes do big numbers if they are allowed to free cast). There spelt that out for you, since you seem to be ignoring the significance of multiple classes if the same acs in your example.

 

Anyone can fluff damage and get a maximum hit of 2k. Good luck killing anyone with a clue doing that though. You are dotting people once and pumping people full of damage from lightning and not killing anything on your own and if they are dropping like flies it's because you are running with multiple acs of the same class.. Do you not see how this is relevant at all? That the amount of acs in the warzone and the type of acs is relevant to your example? Otherwise why did you post that screenshot?

 

You were basing your argument on your example so I'm not trying to prove anything just point out the flaws in your example and your conclusion. I know what sorc is capable of and I know most can't play it well.

 

We will have to agree to disagree, it's utility, damage and defences are directly related to it's force resources. Which are not plentiful especially if you pick up egress. That's a major weakness that can be exploited by people who know how to counter them.

 

You have had 3 hours on the class and you think this gives you an informed opinion on the skill it takes to play one. If the other team let's you free cast and your playing against baddie sorc you act surprised you can put out 1k dps? Play people with a clue and get back to me.

 

oh i see, so you're just playing devils advocate and counter arguing any argument. i was beginning to think you actually thought sorcerers were balanced and not FoTM at all.

 

1.) yes any class free casting can put up numbers, but not as much as madness - the PRIMARY reason i put out multiple AC's is to confirm that it is FoTM, nothing more nothing less..

 

2.) 2k dps is not "fluff" - im beginning to think you're a complete moron for thinking madness if "fluff" damage. 1k dps can be achieved by 2 buttons(as per my experiment) and we'll meet in the middle at 1300-1500 for decent sorcs.

The other day after this voidstar ended, this operative did 1.1 million healing, it was 1198 HPS. he was SUPER proud of his first 1 mill healing game...(let me know if you get what im hinting at here)

 

3.) Most "bad" sorcerers pick up Egress, I don't because i know it gimps force management. while they may gut their force management in the long fight, they'll kite melee for days.

 

4.) I play with people that have a clue all the time.. i picked up how to play from some of the better madness players in the game. all of which also find the class to be over powered. I can still hear some of those players laughing when they received a damage buff to force lightening and creeping terror. I also believe that i can form an opinion while playing so little of madness is because im above average at the game, and can see when a class is performing outside of its parameters. I've been saying since the patch that BW over-buffed madness, but the buffs came from PvE wanting to be more relevant, it just so happened that the buff it provided to PvP were too much.

 

im not in here going "LOL MARAUDERS FREE KILL CUZ SORC OP" or "LOL BRO SORCS ARENT OP I KILL THEM ALL THE TIME" im not that ignorant. I am however intelligent enough to notice when a class is over-performing in the hands of both average and above average players. top sorcerers will even tell you this.

 

Also, The fact that you think this class is perfectly balanced and should be left as is makes me wonder if you actually have a clue.

 

PS : i did 1k dps with creeping terror and force lightening.. 2 buttons, you keep over-looking that information

[Ramtar]

See. Just no, this is what bad players do they cry for nerfs because they don't understand how to play an ac or how other classes work. The fact you think a sent is a free kill tells me all I need to know.

 

I guess than all the calls to nerf every AC is made by bad players.

 

If your going to target a Sentinel/Marauder or a Guardian/Juggernaut which one would you choose?

 

PS : i did 1k dps with creeping terror and force lightening.. 2 buttons, you keep over-looking that information

 

^ this. If it takes 2 buttons to put out a lot of range damage than something is wrong with any AC.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ramtar

[Tevzz]

Mate you have so much mis-information on this post that I don't even know where to start from.

 

 

I highlight you why your whole paragraph is self-contradictory. For your information smash was OP, and I speak for this as a sentinel. Post-nerf era all these bads that "excelled" started crying about the state of the sentinel as unlike focus the other two trees require some skill to be played well... the class is perfectly fine and it is the number uno class for organised pvp.

 

Smash was retardedly OP and it needed nerfing, I never said it didn't but what caused the nerf was mainly ranged stacking together in the backline which resulted in 4-5 people eating 8k at the same time. The point that when a spec outperforms other and needs a nerf is still valid though, apparently that didn't get through though.

There is an equal amount of the other two ranged classes in warzones and they are doing just fine as they always did.

 

No bro, there isn't. Sorcs/Sages make up the majority of ranged classes in nearly every WZ.

 

With posts like this of course people jump to play a sorc, then they see how hard it is to play successfully and then come crying to the forums for buffs... The ones that top the charts were topping the charts before... just like all the other excellent players of their classes. Except now only focus players have the rug pulled under their feet.

 

My point of topping the charts was moot and madness was able to do it just as easily before, but I guess I should have specified that what I was alluding to is the amount by which they do. There aren't very many specs that can rival that dmg output and still retain the mobility. And considering that even absolutely terrible players can pull 1k+ dps without too many problems if they use all their abilities and don't run out of force too fast (I personally know a few of them, no offense to them but it's true) there's something wrong.

 

 

Wrong and wrong. There is no other class as squishy as a sage and all classes have the damage output of a sorc, in fact some even better so depending on how you measure damage output.

 

Lol, Operatives have terrible survivability and being in closer range they're forced to eat more damage than sages or sorcs which only makes things worse, and the damage output argument is just plain wrong -.- Madness DOES have better single target damage output that the vast majority of specs on this game.

 

 

 

If you would like to tell me its different and explain how a single ranged class can survive multiple melee of the same ac be my guest.

 

No spec is meant to do that, and that isn't what the thread is about. It's not about 1 person getting focused by 5 sorcs, it's the fact that madness is vastly superior as a spec.

 

They represent the highest of ranged classes because they are the best ranged class... A sniper is limited in what it can do. What kind if argument is that? Because they are the best ranged class they are op?

 

The problem isn't that they're the best ranged class. It's that they have so many unnecessary advantages over other ranged classes and generally outperform them without much trouble.

 

Most good sorc are throwing out consistent dps of about 1200+, that's not ott considering their entire defences are tied to the same force pool as their offense.

 

1.2k dps for a good madness player shouldn't even be hard, I pull more on gimped focus spec and let's not even discuss how much better Anni can do. Have you actually stopped and considered how easy that 1.2k is to pull off though? We both know how straight forward madness (except I have played it on a Sin and you perhaps a Sorc) is to play, there's no secrets there it's very straight forward it's basically throw DF -> dots->spam filler until you can reapply CrD or until it's time to refresh CT or Affliction/Discharge with a few variations depending on the situation and popping recklessness to maximize DPS. Fact is, is stupidly easy to pull off good DPS on a madness sorc and this shouldn't be the case, not when madness already has excellent kiting capacities and mobility.

 

See, on a sin, where you're constantly eating damage, it can be a bit challenging because you're basically just as squishy as a sorc but you don't have static barrier nor can you heal yourself, so you really can't afford to eat much damage, but being at 30m actually makes a difference, and having something to LOS around makes madness sorcs even more ridiculous, because you can literally Loldot, hide and still dish out fair damage if your enemy is deathmarked.

 

The argument that more of them is the reason they are op is weak tbh, especially considering most of them can't do it right. People read form and try the spec out but most struggle with it.

 

Whether they can do it right or not doesn't change whether the spec is stronger than it should be or not. Many players play to perform well, and they don't really care on which spec it is, so when a spec suddenly gets buffed (for no real reason, especially not for sorcs, Madness sorc was ranked viable even before the buff, madness sin was very meh though) they all flock to it hence it become FOTM.

 

All of the sorc in the game didn't get better at playing sorc overnight if that's what your saying, if you honestly think that I don't know what to tell you, coz that statement is just ridiculous.

 

That was sarcasm to prevent the excuse of "maybe people decided to all start playing their sorcs and just bcuz WZ's are infested with sorcs it doesn't mean they're better, it's not like they suddenly started pulling much better DPS because the spec became too strong" which is exactly what some people have said.

 

 

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Edited September 2, 2014 by Tevzz