ZionHalcyon Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Even though there is no way they could have. Just already packed with raids, the strongholds, groupfinder, Makeb to set the tone already from class to faction story, tacticals, even the dual sub model and cartel market, the whole 9 yards. It just feels like perhaps for the first time, they got some real solid smart leadership at the helm and this game is going in a positive direction (even if the communication always has and still sucks). Can you imagine if this right now was the game we got at launch, and they already had planned an expansion not 3or 4 months after launch? I think it would be destroying the competition. Yet I have to think of the growing pains it took to get here, through F2P, through huge gaps in communication and actually getting WAY less communication now than we did with the old team, and the time it took, etc. I don't know - it just seems like if the community didn't have to endure that and the massive staff overhaul, perhaps this game would be seen in a more positive light overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 agree in general and agree with over all direction of game right now BUT I will say all of this was suggested and requested by forum goers (from day 1 of forums), closed and open beta testers, and players of all sorts afterward. Just as a example: Housing was one of the top 10 items requested before game every even hit beta, much less release. However closed minded devs said point blank we would never get housing EVER. You could literally write many of the new changes to game into the topic and find out the old Dev team were to closed minded to see the need, regardless of popularity. So agree it was impossible to launch correct because of the narrow veiw and closed mindedness of the original devs and designers. I do love the over all direction of game now but still couple big issues (for me) which stop me from saying "this is my long term game for sure" and thats: 1) the insane dumbing down of content (did a Makeb weekly mission today and couldnt get bonus done because they removed to many enemies that you come up 2 short of bonus despite killing every single mob in instances). They gotta stop dumbing everything down because it makes the content boring and ignorable. 2) Warzones/gear over skill PVP. Under 55 Warzones fun because everyone enters equal relatively and their ability is what seperates them. Enter 55 and its all about gear. Players you completely outright owned in sub 55 pvp suddenly untouchable. No interest at all in that. They need to add open world RVR sooner (not later). With out it I dont see the artificial bonuses to pvp lasting long term. So in short, they got the right team now they got many of the right ideas but they got lots of items to improve/add/fix the over all game. Best thing modern devs could do is read the old closed beta threads on what the game needed then. As game still needs most of those ideas today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kunda Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 2) Warzones/gear over skill PVP. Under 55 Warzones fun because everyone enters equal relatively and their ability is what seperates them. Enter 55 and its all about gear. Players you completely outright owned in sub 55 pvp suddenly untouchable. You've posted this in a couple of threads lately. Firstly, both low level Warzones and 55 Warzones apply Bolster, so everyone is brought up to the same level stat wise just like the lower tiers. The only difference that is present in 55 warzones would be whether someone has completely augmented their items or if you're wearing previous tiers of PvP gear that don't bring your expertise up to 2018. Low level warzones are even more imbalanced because there is a huge discrepancy in the actual skills available. A level 10 sniper against a level 29 sniper is going to get demolished every single time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Even though there is no way they could have. Just already packed with raids, the strongholds, groupfinder, Makeb to set the tone already from class to faction story, tacticals, even the dual sub model and cartel market, the whole 9 yards. It just feels like perhaps for the first time, they got some real solid smart leadership at the helm and this game is going in a positive direction (even if the communication always has and still sucks). Can you imagine if this right now was the game we got at launch, and they already had planned an expansion not 3or 4 months after launch? I think it would be destroying the competition. Yet I have to think of the growing pains it took to get here, through F2P, through huge gaps in communication and actually getting WAY less communication now than we did with the old team, and the time it took, etc. I don't know - it just seems like if the community didn't have to endure that and the massive staff overhaul, perhaps this game would be seen in a more positive light overall. If this game had launched in the state it is in now, with the current dev team and all the current mechanics in place I believe we would be looking at north of 3 million players at the moment, considering how many folks purchased the game. Just my unqualified speculation. I think it would have blown the industries doors off....but unfortunately the original dev team made sure this game never got the chance it deserved IMO. All they had to do, before launch, was listen to the Beta testers. They chose to ignore them at their own peril. Edited August 23, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Positivish threads are not allowed here on the SWTOR forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I got the game I wanted at launch. Shame so many other people didn't I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkulous Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I certainly would have stuck around if it had. It seems every time I come back for a Star Wars fix, the game has improved. I like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernixx Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'll be honest with you: It feels like TOR actually had a relaunch. TOR v2.0, if you will. I realize that BW is leery of overhyping things since things went so terribly with the launch, but I really wish that they'd hyped 2.9 a lot more and in open media sources. TV, internet, everything. The game really feels like it's found a new start. Which makes me feel pretty hopeful for 3.0. Because 3.0 will come with content based around GSH, Guild Conquest, GSF, and crafting, right from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apophis_ Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Yes, 3.0 is a great chance for this game to become huge. I really hope they have a good marketing strategy to bring back old players, and encourage new to try the game: tv commercials, epic CGI cinematic, some cool rewards for newcomers, and maybe free sub for everyone as a trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psikofunkster Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Yes, 3.0 is a great chance for this game to become huge. I really hope they have a good marketing strategy to bring back old players, and encourage new to try the game: tv commercials, epic CGI cinematic, some cool rewards for newcomers, and maybe free sub for everyone as a trial. please don't make me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I got the game I wanted at launch. Shame so many other people didn't I guess. Let me guess, the real game you got at launch was the ability to figuratively piss in other people's Wheaties on the forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'll be honest with you: It feels like TOR actually had a relaunch. TOR v2.0, if you will. I realize that BW is leery of overhyping things since things went so terribly with the launch, but I really wish that they'd hyped 2.9 a lot more and in open media sources. TV, internet, everything. The game really feels like it's found a new start. Which makes me feel pretty hopeful for 3.0. Because 3.0 will come with content based around GSH, Guild Conquest, GSF, and crafting, right from the start. I'm with you on that. I said 2.9 was the biggest victory bioware had since before Makeb, maybe even since launch. I do however see that there is still one massive hole, and that is more consistent storytelling that at least emulates the class story experience everyone who touches the game cuts their teeth on at some point. I think if 3.0 can deliver this in spades, then We could actually be looking at a second "soft launch" of the game. What helps is that while I don't know what happened to him, the Bean-counter EA yesman they had as Producer after the original one was forced out isn't the producer of the game anymore. Its some new guy. Whoever he is, he is winning me over. It's making me believe EA when they said they have to get back to listening to their audience. I hope if 3.0 does indeed deliver like I hope it would, that they do hype the crap out of the game and push HARD for more subs. That and stay on a consistent story-telling path while improving the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Let me guess, the real game you got at launch was the ability to figuratively piss in other people's Wheaties on the forums? I don't even know what that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lium Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'm with you on that. I said 2.9 was the biggest victory bioware had since before Makeb, maybe even since launch. I do however see that there is still one massive hole, and that is more consistent storytelling that at least emulates the class story experience everyone who touches the game cuts their teeth on at some point. I think if 3.0 can deliver this in spades, then We could actually be looking at a second "soft launch" of the game. What helps is that while I don't know what happened to him, the Bean-counter EA yesman they had as Producer after the original one was forced out isn't the producer of the game anymore. Its some new guy. Whoever he is, he is winning me over. It's making me believe EA when they said they have to get back to listening to their audience. I hope if 3.0 does indeed deliver like I hope it would, that they do hype the crap out of the game and push HARD for more subs. That and stay on a consistent story-telling path while improving the game. Jeff Hickman isn't here anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniehenlau Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 He's general manager now, according to his Linkedin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tellenn Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Jeff Hickman *********** up mmos since 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavSalco Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) Indeed! But imagine what we could have got if the game had a better engine. No limits imposed o Strongholds, no performance issues, open PVE space combat, faster mounts, podrace...and so on. The original dev team should be forbidden to touch any game ever and leave the game industry. Edited August 23, 2014 by PavSalco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edzew Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Even though there is no way they could have. Just already packed with raids, the strongholds, groupfinder, Makeb to set the tone already from class to faction story, tacticals, even the dual sub model and cartel market, the whole 9 yards. It just feels like perhaps for the first time, they got some real solid smart leadership at the helm and this game is going in a positive direction (even if the communication always has and still sucks). Can you imagine if this right now was the game we got at launch, and they already had planned an expansion not 3or 4 months after launch? I think it would be destroying the competition. Yet I have to think of the growing pains it took to get here, through F2P, through huge gaps in communication and actually getting WAY less communication now than we did with the old team, and the time it took, etc. I don't know - it just seems like if the community didn't have to endure that and the massive staff overhaul, perhaps this game would be seen in a more positive light overall. no it wouldn't be destroying the competition. this game is just way too limiting on everything. you can only have humanoid toons, and you cant explore, etc, etc, etc. this game is full of really bad limiters and that is whats keeping it from doing anything with the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Indeed! But imagine what we could have got if the game had a better engine. No limits imposed o Strongholds, no performance issues, open PVE space combat, faster mounts, podrace...and so on. The original dev team should be forbidden to touch any game ever and leave the game industry. You talk as if this is the only engine in existence with limitations and all other engines can render one million characters, all at once, in a single instance, with said character having 100 billion polygons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edzew Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 You talk as if this is the only engine in existence with limitations and all other engines can render one million characters, all at once, in a single instance, with said character having 100 billion polygons. ummm i dont think that is what he is saying at all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 (edited) ummm i dont think that is what he is saying at all!!! ummm he be sayin that the engine be limited and al da fault lies in da engine and da original team!!!! as if other engines dunt have limitations at allz!!!!1111!!!!! u feelin me or u be needin moarr of diz!!!! Edited August 23, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 ummm he be sayin that the engine be limited and al da fault lies in da engine and da original team!!!! as if other engines dunt have limitations at allz!!!!1111!!!!! u feelin me or u be needin moarr of diz!!!! diz ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edzew Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 ummm he be sayin that the engine be limited and al da fault lies in da engine and da original team!!!! as if other engines dunt have limitations at allz!!!!1111!!!!! u feelin me or u be needin moarr of diz!!!! don't know what your problem is but... he was not talking about visual limitations with polygons and pixels and rendering. the engine we are using now is a hacked up beta version of the hero engine so there are a LOT more limitations to what the devs can do with it. this game still feels more like a single player game instead of a real MMORPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The original dev team should be forbidden to touch any game ever and leave the game industry. Agree with this part of your post fully Its actually kinda surprising this game survived it first 2 years with all the screw up and bad press/image developed (earned) by the original team on this game. Fact that its been allowed to change the tune on that channel and in a way start anew is a very big compliment to the new team going forward. There has been many other titles who crashed and burned badly for doing even a sliver of the screw ups that were made by the original team here. I really think if the devs had just listened to some of thier beta testers that been around this genre longer then they themselves had been. ALLOT of mistakes and shortcomings could have been avoided from day 1 and this game would not have gone through the struggles it did. Some Things (not all, just ones I personally remember from closed beta and before boards)) commonly requested in game before release (in some cases years and years and years before release) 1) Pazaak and swoop bike racing ala KotOR 1 (still often requested) 2) costume tabs (still requested) 3) RVR ala DAoC (still requested) 4) mentoring ala EQ2 (still requested time to time) 5) housing (just added) 6) redoable content that scales to level (mostly refering to storymode heroics and flash points) 7) dual builds with saved keymapping (IE: Could switch from heal spec to dps spec with click of button and your DPS hotbar settings would instantly appear) 8) Turn off xp toggle (still requested for those that want to stay in lowbie PVP ) 9) Faster content updates (this one appeared in closed beta when folks realized how ultra fast they could level up to 50. From day one people knew if you can level that fast (its even faster now) that BW would have to be very pro active on content releases because of numbers of people hitting 50 faster then normal at the time) 10) Guild levels ala EQ2 (we kinda got this with conquest points now but then again not really) There was much more that I personally forget (and couple I just will not write out) but for most part the experienced testers of the closed beta did try to let BW know where the shortcomings of game were. At a point in closed beta it was made very clear to everyone the devs were not interested in suggestions like written above and only interested in bugs and exploits(which mostly ended up being ignored anyways). So yeah, I completely agree about the old dev team being the problem. The new dev teams seems to understand the genre better then the original team ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 I don't think the old team should be completely thrown under the bus. they did a lot right and laid the core foundation for the game. it's just that their lack of experience in the MMO market killed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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