Regarding Dark Project mats.

[BuriDogshin]

To get a better perspective on what I'm talking about, this is how things are going to end up being done after 2.9 when it comes to farming mats for Dark Projects:

 

16man NiM EV: 8 ADCs, 2 RENs.

16man HM EV: 8 ADCs, 2 RENs.

16man SM EV: 8 BCAs, 2 SPPCs.

...

The rewards for doing all three modes of KP are the same as EV listed above. So, doing six runs of the relevant 50 OPs will net you 32 Alien Data Cubes, 8 Rakata Energy Nodes, 16 Biometric Crystal Alloys and 4 Self-Perpetuating Power Cells.

...

Now, at least 8 of your guildies will need to go do HM False Emperor for the Self-Perpetuating Power Cell...

 

A Dark Project requires 3 Self-Perpetuating Power Cells, 6 Alien Data Cubes, 6 Biometric Crystal Alloys, 3 Rakata Energy Nodes and a crapton of sub-55 green mats.

 

So, with six runs under your belt in the first week, assuming we have all the green mats for the Invasion Force item already, we can make...2 Dark Projects. Per week. Assuming you can get your Guildies to go do 3 runs of EV, and 3 runs of KP and 2 runs of HM False Emperor.

 

For two Dark Projects, per week. And you need 50 of those to make a single Framework. And you need 2-6 of those to open a single room. And there are 15 rooms to unlock.

 

Unless I did my math wrong, it'll take a guild...25 weeks to get one Framework by farming 50 Ops. And almost a year to get one room unlocked.

 

Your math fails to account for alts. With my alts in my Imp guild, I can run EV 21 times a week, and KP 21 times a week, without running my disfavored alts. A lot of other people in my guild have more geared alts than I do. It would take a big time investment tho. But me doing 15 L50 ops in a week (in maybe 14-18 hours) is certainly possible.

 

So, with 4 8m HM raiding groups with three or more geared alts per player (less than 100 toons total), a guild could realistically do more than 60 Ops a week. That's two weeks per room unlock, if I follow your math correctly. Pretty reasonable.

 

In fact, any guild with enough geared toons can farm probably do half an op per toon or more, per week.

So a 100-toon guild, 50 per week easy. A 200-toon guild can unlock a room per week.

And if instead of alt-a-holics you just have that many active players, it is even easier.

Edited August 13, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[BuriDogshin]

If this remains 'as is', I don't see many guilds putting much time or effort into Guild Ships. Most guilds don't have the tenacity or inclination to spend a year farming 6 EV/KP runs every week to get a single room unlocked.

As I pointed out in a longer post, many guilds can farm way more than 6 EV/KP runs a week.

 

Sure, that's the limit for an eight toon guild.

But an 80 toon guild can farm 10 times that many a week.

Yes, I'm assuming geared L55 toons with a clue can 8m the NiM 50 content. BTDT.

But even if they ignore NiM, 80 toons can 8m 40 EV/KP runs a week. 120 toons can 8M 60 SM/HM a week. And so on.

 

Or is there some per-guild or per-legacy lockout on op rewards that I am not aware of?

[Daekarus]

im personally enjoying the same 5 carebears whining and crying about mats and pvp while the rest of the gaming community sees nothing wrong with the system at all.

 

but keep up making these threads! it'll work someday!

 

You must spend all of your time trolling and none actually participating in the community. There is not a single podcast, many of whom have very serious PvPers as hosts, who don't see the crafting track as totally insane. If there's no problem I'm sure you will have fun crafting while you're waiting for the commanders to respawn and for their 6 hour shield timer to count down...

[Daekarus]

As I pointed out in a longer post, many guilds can farm way more than 6 EV/KP runs a week.

 

Sure, that's the limit for an eight toon guild.

But an 80 toon guild can farm 10 times that many a week.

Yes, I'm assuming geared L55 toons with a clue can 8m the NiM 50 content. BTDT.

But even if they ignore NiM, 80 toons can 8m 40 EV/KP runs a week. 120 toons can 8M 60 SM/HM a week. And so on.

 

Or is there some per-guild or per-legacy lockout on op rewards that I am not aware of?

 

Your logic seems sound to me, even if the experience you're proposing sounds monstrously unenjoyable.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Something else to consider is ideally the amount of PUGs of this content will go up meaning more of the materials available for purchase and maybe more casual guildies having materials to contribute to the guild they wouldn't have cared about before.

 

Also not sure if this has been touched on but I personally think it's a good thing to encourage people to run a bigger variety of content just for enjoyments sake. I personally will look forward to a greater variety of operations to run ( assuming this does indeed provoke more pugs etc. ) regardless of how easy they are or what level they are, at least it's something to do as opposed to sitting in chat trolling each other ala apac time in harbinger imp side where you can find practically no content to run with people that isn't pre-organized guild stuff.

[BuriDogshin]

Your logic seems sound to me, even if the experience you're proposing sounds monstrously unenjoyable.

Everything's better with friends and booze.

[MillionsKNives]

As I pointed out in a longer post, many guilds can farm way more than 6 EV/KP runs a week.

 

Sure, that's the limit for an eight toon guild.

But an 80 toon guild can farm 10 times that many a week.

Yes, I'm assuming geared L55 toons with a clue can 8m the NiM 50 content. BTDT.

But even if they ignore NiM, 80 toons can 8m 40 EV/KP runs a week. 120 toons can 8M 60 SM/HM a week. And so on.

 

Or is there some per-guild or per-legacy lockout on op rewards that I am not aware of?

 

For the Rakata Energy Nodes needed, at 45 minutes for a 16-man ops that's still 3,037 hours of ops farming, or 126 days. Multiply that by the amount of players running those 16-man for the number of man-hours spent.

 

At 10 times his number, 60 16-man ops per week (plus the requisite flashpoint runs for the SPPC), that would give you 80 of each purple per week, or 26-ish dark projects per week. That's about two weeks per framework, or 4 weeks for the cheapest rooms. To fully unlock the entire ship it would take 1.9 years at that rate. If a single person were interested in going on all 60 operations it would take about 45 hours a week, at 45 minutes per run.

Edited August 13, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[Daekarus]

For the Rakata Energy Nodes needed, at 45 minutes for a 16-man ops that's still 3,037 hours of ops farming, or 126 days. Multiply that by the amount of players running those 16-man for the number of man-hours spent.

 

At 10 times his number, 60 16-man ops per week (plus the requisite flashpoint runs for the SPPC), that would give you 80 of each purple per week, or 26-ish dark projects per week. That's about two weeks per framework, or 4 weeks for the cheapest rooms. To fully unlock the entire ship it would take 1.9 years at that rate. If a single person were interested in going on all 60 operations it would take about 45 hours a week, at 45 minutes per run.

 

All the while doing absolutely nothing else in game. No gear progression, no dailies, no new content, no PvP. I think we can safely say nobody in their right mind would consider that fun.

[Darth_Wicked]

For the Rakata Energy Nodes needed, at 45 minutes for a 16-man ops that's still 3,037 hours of ops farming, or 126 days. Multiply that by the amount of players running those 16-man for the number of man-hours spent.

 

At 10 times his number, 60 16-man ops per week (plus the requisite flashpoint runs for the SPPC), that would give you 80 of each purple per week, or 26-ish dark projects per week. That's about two weeks per framework, or 4 weeks for the cheapest rooms. To fully unlock the entire ship it would take 1.9 years at that rate. If a single person were interested in going on all 60 operations it would take about 45 hours a week, at 45 minutes per run.

 

I'm honestly glad they're giving people an additional reason to rerun classical operations but even so, seriously... There's time investment and there's that.

[keimox]

You do realise that some of us are not interested in doing any PVE at all, and the new owPVP content is a nice cherry on the cake of an otherwise useless expansion for us?

 

It would be better if they found a way to not push us towards any additional scripted PVE content.

 

owPVP content is joke. U don't get any conquest points by killing ppl in owPVP. You just make enemy factions attempt to kill commander in your outpost harder.

Oh well maybe some other conquest event will have objective to kill x number of players in some planet.

[ivanhedgehog]

Agreed.

 

This isn't even real WPvP content

 

More like another PvE encounter just thrown into a flagged area.

 

Defenders get no real reward for defending, attackers get no real reward for kills. (Of players). This leads me to maintain a view that it does little to "encourage" PvP, and more to make "pointless PvP blunders" happen. This would of course be different if there were direct rewards for engaging the opposing faction in a conquest.... In star WARS. But alas, I'll take the bone I'm thrown.

 

This is just flagging for PvE

 

this does more to hurt owpvp than help. more people will have a bad experience rather than set up actual owpvp content with purpose and rewards, they cheaped out. real ow content would have people coming in for that purpose, not as an impediment.

[ivanhedgehog]

Yeah, more than half the ppl on every server in this game do Pvp, whether it's a PVe server where ppl only Pvp in WZs, or on RP-Pvp and PvP only servers as well. Don't try to act like ur talking for every1 when it comes to that issue( To the OP).

 

link? you do have a link with those numbers dont you?

[ivanhedgehog]

Your math fails to account for alts. With my alts in my Imp guild, I can run EV 21 times a week, and KP 21 times a week, without running my disfavored alts. A lot of other people in my guild have more geared alts than I do. It would take a big time investment tho. But me doing 15 L50 ops in a week (in maybe 14-18 hours) is certainly possible.

 

So, with 4 8m HM raiding groups with three or more geared alts per player (less than 100 toons total), a guild could realistically do more than 60 Ops a week. That's two weeks per room unlock, if I follow your math correctly. Pretty reasonable.

 

In fact, any guild with enough geared toons can farm probably do half an op per toon or more, per week.

So a 100-toon guild, 50 per week easy. A 200-toon guild can unlock a room per week.

And if instead of alt-a-holics you just have that many active players, it is even easier.

 

you have that many guild members with more than the 22 character limit on a server? really? that sounds like a full time job. you might want one that pays a paycheck

[LanceCorporalDan]

this does more to hurt owpvp than help. more people will have a bad experience rather than set up actual owpvp content with purpose and rewards, they cheaped out. real ow content would have people coming in for that purpose, not as an impediment.

 

The people who would have a bad experience likely have no interest in it anyways. I agree real content for wpvp would be nice... But this isn't the game for that. I've given up hope and will take my table scrap rewards they think facilitates wpvp.

 

Again this is just flagging to complete a pve objective. There are no real rewards or incentives to defend your commander or engage other players (pvp). So in my view, they have done nothing to facilitate it, and I highly doubt they ever will as that would shift focus more towards PvP. Which this game isn't really revolving around.

[Quraswren]

For the Rakata Energy Nodes needed, at 45 minutes for a 16-man ops that's still 3,037 hours of ops farming, or 126 days. Multiply that by the amount of players running those 16-man for the number of man-hours spent.

 

At 10 times his number, 60 16-man ops per week (plus the requisite flashpoint runs for the SPPC), that would give you 80 of each purple per week, or 26-ish dark projects per week. That's about two weeks per framework, or 4 weeks for the cheapest rooms. To fully unlock the entire ship it would take 1.9 years at that rate. If a single person were interested in going on all 60 operations it would take about 45 hours a week, at 45 minutes per run.

 

It almost makes you go, "W'T'F' are they thinking?"

 

Hell, I can't run dailies for than a few times a week before I burn out along with everything else I like to do in game. Put a time frame like that on a guild, even a large one that likes to do more than just mat collecting in old ops, and it's a mind screw.

 

It's a warped sense of development that for sure.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Quraswren

[Transcendent]

people are saying that false emperor isnt a guaranteed drop. its up to the rng......

 

Correct, ran it earlier an can confirm no SPPC dropped.

[L-RANDLE]

There still isn't anyone that can post reasoning why room unlocks are needed? It's vanity so time to acquire is damn near irrelevant.

 

Either you do or you don't. Again this seems to be a series of unlocks meant to last for the duration of the game, not a few months/weeks of farming. All of these time estimates and general ill-will isn't even premature, it's itch in ur pappy's pants early.

Edited August 13, 2014 by L-RANDLE

[Pagy]

commanders on multiple planets, 3/6hr respawns

 

they will be very easy to get

 

all of this chicken-little panicking is laughable.

[Quraswren]

There still isn't anyone that can post reasoning why room unlocks are needed? It's vanity so time to acquire is damn near irrelevant.

 

Either you do or you don't. Again this seems to be a series of unlocks meant to last for the duration of the game, not a few months/weeks of farming. All of these time estimates and general ill-will isn't even premature, it's itch in ur pappy's pants early.

 

Yea cause nothing makes you feel better than having a half built lego and also knowing that to get the extra pieces it will take you about 1.9 years of doing nothing else in your free time to get them so you can complete the project.

 

Thats not called fun or entertaining at the cost of $15 a month.

[MillionsKNives]

There still isn't anyone that can post reasoning why room unlocks are needed? It's vanity so time to acquire is damn near irrelevant.

 

Either you do or you don't. Again this seems to be a series of unlocks meant to last for the duration of the game, not a few months/weeks of farming. All of these time estimates and general ill-will isn't even premature, it's itch in ur pappy's pants early.

 

Nothing in this game is needed. What's your point?

 

How can the time estimates be premature when that's mathematically how long it takes? It's pretty damn mature at this point, seeing as how it's being launched next week and they have given no indications that they intend to change it.

 

Who in their right mind would design content that lasts for "the duration of the game" (I'd love to see any MMO last 38 years) when it's tied to content that is old and few people still run regularly. It's not even content that you slowly progress towards with regular gameplay. You have to go out of your way to run old content, and at a casual pace I think the icecaps will melt before you finish. Even at a breakneck pace of running 60 16-man operations per week it would take two years. How long exactly do you expect this MMO to last that people will wait decades to actually fill out their guild ship?

Edited August 13, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[Sabatus]

commanders on multiple planets, 3/6hr respawns

 

they will be very easy to get

 

all of this chicken-little panicking is laughable.

 

3/9h (6h shield that only the last conqueror can drop with 1 dark project). Drops 1 encryption with a chance of a framework instead. The first round, since there are no winners yet, if you kill every commander on every planet (assuming 8 per Dulfys info) on every repop instantly, you get 128. Realistically a guild might get 20-30 max even if they think they are that good.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Sabatus

[L-RANDLE]

commanders on multiple planets, 3/6hr respawns

 

they will be very easy to get

 

all of this chicken-little panicking is laughable.

 

It's not just that, but room unlocks look like nothing more than guild wide time and credit sink. It has yet to be proven that these unlocks provide anything of strategic/financial/statistical value. It's a Legacy Guild Vanity Project, meant to last the duration of the game. It's like Martha Stewart *****in' that there is not enough room for towels in her 12x12 Walk in Linen closet.

 

But dem decor doe..

[Reno_Tarshil]

It's not just that, but room unlocks look like nothing more than guild wide time and credit sink. It has yet to be proven that these unlocks provide anything of strategic/financial/statistical value. It's a Legacy Guild Vanity Project, meant to last the duration of the game. It's like Martha Stewart *****in' that there is not enough room for towels in her 12x12 Walk in Linen closet.

 

But dem decor doe..

 

I feel like you're getting upset over vanity things for no reason...

[L-RANDLE]

Nothing in this game is needed. What's your point?

 

How can the time estimates be premature when that's mathematically how long it takes? It's pretty damn mature at this point, seeing as how it's being launched next week and they have given no indications that they intend to change it.

 

Who in their right mind would design content that lasts for "the duration of the game" (I'd love to see any MMO last 38 years) when it's tied to content that is old and few people still run regularly. It's not even content that you slowly progress towards with regular gameplay. You have to go out of your way to run old content, and at a casual pace I think the icecaps will melt before you finish. Even at a breakneck pace of running 60 16-man operations per week it would take two years. How long exactly do you expect this MMO to last that people will wait decades to actually fill out their guild ship?

why do you need to fill it? Again, there is nothing wrong with having an eternal grind. "Completion" is a far worst scenario for a game. Once there is nothing to do, you don't play anymore. It doesn't matter what content it's tied to, but it, for sure, gives that content PURPOSE now. It shouldn't be too hard to fathom why they would put something like this in the game. To keep people playing...

 

Get it?

[L-RANDLE]

I feel like you're getting upset over vanity things for no reason...

Yep I'm red faced and have steam coming out my ears..