Weekly server maintenance EU times?

[dekey]

Probably repeating one of the 50 pages of replies here but:

 

They are a business and wish to make money.

 

Most people that have money are working during that time and their off-spring are/should be in school.

 

So yes, they are scheduling the times so that they are the least impacting to their customers whilst remaining plausible for them.

 

In short: In online gaming, these are off-peak hours.

[Mandrax]

 

I think all has been said in this thread that needed to be said (and sadly, quite a bit more). What we need now is a response from Bioware. Without them this is kind of a one-sided discussion.

 

They gave a response, it fell short. In fact Chris Collins tried the old 'our metrics tell us that's the least populated time' routine which is total BS. Might be the least populated time when you take the US and EU figures combined, but it is not the least populated time in EU.

 

They need to re-assess.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mandrax

[Archannon]

Probably repeating one of the 50 pages of replies here but:

 

They are a business and wish to make money.

 

Most people that have money are working during that time and their off-spring are/should be in school.

 

So yes, they are scheduling the times so that they are the least impacting to their customers whilst remaining plausible for them.

 

In short: In online gaming, these are off-peak hours.

 

No they're not. I was unable to login until 21:00 local time due to the combination of (extended) maintenance and the queue to join the server. And then I had to log off again at 22:00 due to work.

[Archannon]

They gave a response, it fell short. In fact Chris Collins tried the old 'our metrics tell us that's the least populated time' routine which is total BS. Might be the least populated time when you take the US and EU figures combined, but it is not the least populated time in EU.

 

They need to re-assess.

 

I know. But one response is not a discussion.

 

I just think we scared them off, the last 30 pages or so that message has been disected and ripped to shreds from all possible angles.

 

They might not want to come back into this thread after that tbh.

[dekey]

So your argument that the day time isnt off-peak is that YOU had to log off at 22:00 to go to work?

 

You will find that most normal jobs take place in the day. Those nice Monday to friday things that people dress smartly for.

 

You, my friend are not the status quo.

 

Peak times for MMO concurrency are evenings and weekends. You know, kids home from school, status quo adults home from work.

 

I'm sure you will disagree, im fine with that. I'm safe in the knowledge that I know what I have said is indeed the case. As does BW.

[Mandrax]

Probably repeating one of the 50 pages of replies here but:

 

They are a business and wish to make money.

 

Most people that have money are working during that time and their off-spring are/should be in school.

 

So yes, they are scheduling the times so that they are the least impacting to their customers whilst remaining plausible for them.

 

In short: In online gaming, these are off-peak hours.

 

That is NOT the least impacting time for EU players, it might be the least impacting time as a WHOLE, when you take into account ALL the players, but they shouldn't be doing that as there are clearly more US players than EU. They need to look at it region by region, not combining the entire player base of both regions then selecting the time with least players. It gives a false impression of the reality.

 

The least impacting time any MMO is during the early hours of the morning. Why do you think they did it when all the US players were in bed?? Because that is when the least US players are online. They should be scheduling TWO maintenance sessions, one for EU one for US, like most other MMOs do.

 

As I said in a previous post, it's a con. They are playing with the figures in order to try to dupe us into believing that it's the quietest time, when clearly it is not the quietest time for the EU. It is only the quietest time for the US. Don't be taken in by it.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mandrax

[dekey]

That is NOT the least impacting time for EU players, it might be the least impacting time as a WHOLE, when you take into account ALL the players, but they shouldn't be doing that as there are clearly more US players than EU. They need to look at it region by region, not combining the entire player base of both regions then selecting the time with least players. It gives a false impression of the reality.

 

I do so wish people would not reply to half of a sentance.

 

If you re-read the passage of mine that you kindly quoted, you will see the ENTIRE sentance is key.

 

"So yes, they are scheduling the times so that they are the least impacting to their customers whilst remaining plausible for them."

 

We all know the servers are all on the same DBs, thats why you have the ability to play on both EU and US realms should you choose.

 

The difference with WoW is that they are entirely seperate so can be brought down independantly.

 

So taking into consideration that its likely BW CANNOT conduct the maintenance during the early morning for EU (as that would entail the realms being offline for US during actual peak concurrency) The next best option is what they have rolled out.

 

Geeze thank god we dont have any asian servers.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dekey

[Mandrax]

I do so wish people would not reply to half of a sentance.

 

If you re-read the passage of mine that you kindly quoted, you will see the ENTIRE sentance is key.

 

"So yes, they are scheduling the times so that they are the least impacting to their customers whilst remaining plausible for them."

 

We all know the servers are all on the same DBs, thats why you have the ability to play on both EU and US realms should you choose.

 

The difference with WoW is that they are entirely seperate so can be brought down independantly.

 

So taking into consideration that its likely BW CANNOT conduct the maintenance during the early morning for EU (as that would entail the realms being offline for US during actual peak concurrency) The next best option is what they have rolled out.

 

Geeze thank god we dont have any asian servers.

 

Then they need to rotate the maintenance. One week US suffers, next week EU suffers. It's the fairest way. Though I'm not 100% convinced that the EU and US cannot be brought down separately. If that is the case then it's very very short-sighted of BioWare.

 

Also, you are saying it was off-peak for EU, when actually there were parts of the EU that didn't get on until 8.30pm, that is NOT off-peak. Even if their maintenance was on time it would still have been 6pm which again is NOT off-peak hours.

 

They needs to do the proper thing and sort their systems out so that the EU get a proper maintenance schedule. If they don't, they will lose subs.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mandrax

[Vaestmannaeyjar]

Probably repeating one of the 50 pages of replies here but:

 

They are a business and wish to make money.

 

Most people that have money are working during that time and their off-spring are/should be in school.

 

So yes, they are scheduling the times so that they are the least impacting to their customers whilst remaining plausible for them.

 

In short: In online gaming, these are off-peak hours.

 

During the christmas holidays ? who you kidding ?

Offpeak EU time is between 4-10AM when even the nolifers sleep.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Vaestmannaeyjar

[Archannon]

I do so wish people would not reply to half of a sentance.

 

If you re-read the passage of mine that you kindly quoted, you will see the ENTIRE sentance is key.

 

"So yes, they are scheduling the times so that they are the least impacting to their customers whilst remaining plausible for them."

 

We all know the servers are all on the same DBs, thats why you have the ability to play on both EU and US realms should you choose.

 

The difference with WoW is that they are entirely seperate so can be brought down independantly.

 

So taking into consideration that its likely BW CANNOT conduct the maintenance during the early morning for EU (as that would entail the realms being offline for US during actual peak concurrency) The next best option is what they have rolled out.

 

Geeze thank god we dont have any asian servers.

 

I read your sentence and chose to ignore it at that time. I must admit, you do have a point that we can play on both the EU and US servers (albeit something I could care less about, I'm sure this a brilliant feature for some).

 

Different patch cycles would then pose problems, with updating the clients etc.

 

And yet, even with your valid point, my opinion remains unchanged. I pay the same - no, let's be whiny: I pay more. With current exchange rates I pay 15 euro's where an american fee will be 11,55 euro's. And yet, with an extended maintenance (and let's be honest, this was the first and most definitely not the last) I get to play one day per week less.

 

It's not even about the money, I could care less. It's just this nagging feeling of being treated as a second-class customer that I cannot stand. I thoroughly enjoy the game, but if I get the feeling I'm being shafted by any company.. on principle I will refuse to be their customer.

[TiiRahnedancer]

I'm most likely repeating one of the previous posts, but just in case...

 

Peak hours aren't the hours that you play or the hours that I play. It's the hours that the majority plays. Essentially, that makes peak hours after school hours and after a business day and usually weekends as well are included.

 

I realize that some members of the community work or go to classes at night but they do not make up the majority.

 

Now if BW really wanted to they could probably do EU and NA server maintenances seperately. I believe the reasons they do not do this is because they are not simply maintaining the servers right now. They are also applying updates and bug fixes. That's something that should be done for the entire community at the same time.

 

Another reason could be that the entire community has access to all of the servers. Do we really want a situation that would cause members from one region flooding the servers that are still up so that they can play during their local server downtime?

[Atroxy]

So your argument that the day time isnt off-peak is that YOU had to log off at 22:00 to go to work?

 

You will find that most normal jobs take place in the day. Those nice Monday to friday things that people dress smartly for.

 

You, my friend are not the status quo.

 

Peak times for MMO concurrency are evenings and weekends. You know, kids home from school, status quo adults home from work.

 

I'm sure you will disagree, im fine with that. I'm safe in the knowledge that I know what I have said is indeed the case. As does BW.

 

 

Why are you defending BW? And day hours are peak hours. No matter how you turn it. It doesn't matter if your working from 9 to 5 or your working in shifts, like I do. Off hours are during the night.

 

And if your "theory" would be correct why are they doing the maintenance periods in the US during the night? I wonder... .

 

Let me tell you something. Blizzard had the same problem with WoW in the beginning. They had to change is because of the number of complaints they got from angry European players. And those angry folks were in their right to be pissed. You are forgetting that we are talking about 4 days a month, 48 days a year that every EU player loses, while the US players get to play.

 

And if BW does not take this seriously they will be getting a huge number of pissed of costumers wanting a refund. Do the math... .

[Atroxy]

I know. But one response is not a discussion.

 

I just think we scared them off, the last 30 pages or so that message has been disected and ripped to shreds from all possible angles.

 

They might not want to come back into this thread after that tbh.

 

If they don't they will be in for a hard time.

[Archannon]

So your argument that the day time isnt off-peak is that YOU had to log off at 22:00 to go to work?

 

You will find that most normal jobs take place in the day. Those nice Monday to friday things that people dress smartly for.

 

You, my friend are not the status quo.

 

Peak times for MMO concurrency are evenings and weekends. You know, kids home from school, status quo adults home from work.

 

I'm sure you will disagree, im fine with that. I'm safe in the knowledge that I know what I have said is indeed the case. As does BW.

 

No.. I'm saying that I had to log off at 22:00 because I had to go to bed. Which in turn is due to work. Which I have during the day time (from 08:00 to 17:00).

 

Then when I come home to the wife and dinner. THEN I want to be able to play my game (usually with the wife) and then at 22:00 (but sometimes slightly later) I have to start getting ready for bed. Make sure the cats are fed, their litterboxes are clean, I have food - and more importantly.. coffee -in the morning.

 

So yes, I AM the status quo. Thanks.

 

Edit: I made a really weird sentence. Fixed.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Archannon

[Atroxy]

This needs a bump!

[Mandrax]

I'm most likely repeating one of the previous posts, but just in case...

 

Peak hours aren't the hours that you play or the hours that I play. It's the hours that the majority plays. Essentially, that makes peak hours after school hours and after a business day and usually weekends as well are included.

 

I realize that some members of the community work or go to classes at night but they do not make up the majority.

 

Now if BW really wanted to they could probably do EU and NA server maintenances seperately. I believe the reasons they do not do this is because they are not simply maintaining the servers right now. They are also applying updates and bug fixes. That's something that should be done for the entire community at the same time.

 

Another reason could be that the entire community has access to all of the servers. Do we really want a situation that would cause members from one region flooding the servers that are still up so that they can play during their local server downtime?

 

You are making excuses for them.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mandrax

[dekey]

No.. I'm saying that I had to log off at 22:00 because I had to go to bed. Which in turn is due to work. Which I have during the day time (from 08:00 to 17:00).

 

So you work 08:00 > 17:00 and you state yourself that you are the status quo?

 

So surely that means that other than overnight (which we will have to assume at this stage, isnt possible as they cannot do maintenance independently from the US and overnight EU would be evening US) maintenance in the 9>5 weekday range is optimum at present?

 

Your reply kind of re-enforces my point.

 

*Also please keep in mind that they did overrun with the 1st maintenance. It was longer than normal and hopefully wont be a common theme.*

[Mandrax]

So you work 08:00 > 17:00 and you state yourself that you are the status quo?

 

So surely that means that other than overnight (which we will have to assume at this stage, isnt possible as they cannot do maintenance independently from the US and overnight EU would be evening US) maintenance in the 9>5 weekday range is optimum at present?

 

Your reply kind of re-enforces my point.

 

*Also please keep in mind that they did overrun with the 1st maintenance. It was longer than normal and hopefully wont be a common theme.*

 

They overran but it would still have ended at 6pm in some parts of the EU, which is unacceptable. They should have foreseen these issues and made a contingency.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Mandrax

[dekey]

Why are you defending BW?.

 

Firstly I am not defending anyone intentionally. I have no side in this at all. I am simply trying to explain to those with less insight into these things, some relevant factors as I do happen to have alittle experience in this area.

 

Secondly As I stated, it is apparent that BW cannot do US and EU maintenance independently, meaning when the realms are down for US, they must go down for EU too. The middle of the night for EU is evening for US. So they cannot do maintenance at that time.

 

Third your comment about wow maintenance times and changes to them is completely made up. Sorry but WoW has never intentionally had EU maintenance during EU peak hours or at the same time as the US. Their regions aren't even connected. (which meant they could do independent maintenance)

 

Actually thats a good thing to clear up;

 

You notice when you log into wow, you only see EU or US realms. This is because the regions are seperate. The authentication for logging in is seperate.

 

Now the reason you see both US and EU on SWTOR is because they are not seperate, and they share the same authentication. So to stop people logging into the game in one region, they have to disable authentication for everyone.

 

Sorry for the wall of text.

[TheHauntingBard]

They overran but it would still have ended at 6pm in some parts of the EU, which is unacceptable. They should have foreseen these issues and made a contingency.

 

They went up to 19:30 for central Europe ,that's pretty much into peak time on a holiday.

Any decent company would have done that maintenance during the EU night/morning.

Besides why are people making excuses for Bioware, they aren't your friends neither do you get paid.

 

They are a large company that is providing it's EU costumers with a poor service.

People like you are the reason these things happen because you accept poor service and give them a freaking pet on the head for it.

 

Warhammer has shown that most EU costumers don't take kindly to poor treatment.

Perhaps it's wise to think about it, you aren't in the majority with that.

Sure not all people complain on the forum or want this game to succeed like some, they will just cancel their account and done.

 

The 'whiners' on the forum as you call them are simply costumers that raise a valid concern.

The fact that the biggest costumer lose will be people that simply don't bother to write on the forum is something people seem not to grasp.

[dekey]

Besides why are people making excuses for Bioware, they aren't your friends neither do you get paid.

 

Its this type of response that depresses me the most.

 

We are not defending anyone, we are simply trying to offer you some insight as to why it is the way it is.

 

I haven't once said if I think its a good or a bad system. I have simply explained the system and a very probable reason for it, to you.

[Archannon]

So you work 08:00 > 17:00 and you state yourself that you are the status quo?

 

So surely that means that other than overnight (which we will have to assume at this stage, isnt possible as they cannot do maintenance independently from the US and overnight EU would be evening US) maintenance in the 9>5 weekday range is optimum at present?

 

Your reply kind of re-enforces my point.

 

*Also please keep in mind that they did overrun with the 1st maintenance. It was longer than normal and hopefully wont be a common theme.*

 

Make up your mind. First you state I'm not status quo because you believe I work at night.

 

Then when I explain I have a normal day job you find flaw in that. A dayjob from 8 to 5 is a regular job here in the EU as far as I'm aware.

 

That means that if I'm negatively impacted, many people with these regular jobs will be impacted as well.

 

Wether they can or cannot do independant maintenance does not matter to this discussion. That's their problem (read: design flaw), not mine. As it stands currently EU players are paying more and at the same time apparently being considered second-rate customers in regards to these maintenance times.

 

And yes, I am aware that this maintenance was extended. But let's be honest, I've been seeing MMO server maintenances since 1997... especially during the first 1-2 years these maintenances are going to be extended.. ALOT.

 

And on a side-note. I highly doubt it's impossible to do independent maintenance. Apart from issues with clients in EU who want to play on US servers and vice versa and their update problems.. Ofcourse neither of us can say for sure because we don't know the technical lay-out for BW's serverparks. But I would highly doubt they offer a local serverpark in the EU and then connect it to DB servers in the US.. latency, bandwidth.. etc. Much better to keep these things local.

[TheHauntingBard]

Its this type of response that depresses me the most.

 

We are not defending anyone, we are simply trying to offer you some insight as to why it is the way it is.

 

I haven't once said if I think its a good or a bad system. I have simply explained the system and a very probable reason for it, to you.

 

Stating that you will use different maintenance times for the EU pre launch and doing the opposite is a bait and switch.

 

Releasing a game just before x-mas to ramp up the sells and than taking the EU servers down on a EU holiday from 11:00 to 19:30 is simply bad management.

There is no shame in having extended maintenance on a first patch, that's why you don't do such things during the day.

There is this thing called time zones and they are a big enough company to have two teams.

When you mess up you will have servers down during prime time, this was only a minor patch ontop of it.

 

 

It's indeed depressing to see people trying to explain/support poor costumer service.

[dekey]

Make up your mind. First you state I'm not status quo because you believe I work at night.

 

Then when I explain I have a normal day job you find flaw in that. A dayjob from 8 to 5 is a regular job here in the EU as far as I'm aware.

 

That means that if I'm negatively impacted, many people with these regular jobs will be impacted as well.

 

 

Yes indeed, from your 1st post I was of the impression you were complaining that you were wanting to play an entire day and couldnt, then could not play at night due to work. Then you clarified and it is now clear that you were simply infact complaining that you could not log in for a couple of hours after work because the maintenance overran.

 

I fail to see how this is relevant though.

 

These regular jobs you speak of ar 9/5, as far as im aware thats roughly the same timeframe the maintenance is intended to run. That works out pretty sweet, right?

 

As for losing X hours over Y months of time to play compared to the US: You can make this comparison for any 2 situations on either side of the maintenance. Someone will always be unable to play when they wish to whilst someone else will be uneffected. Its all about LIMITING the amount of people that are.

 

I'm fairly confident that BW didn't just randomly pick a time to mess with people. I'm sure they know this isn't perfect but it's more than likely the best they can do at this time.

 

No amount of complaining about it will change it any sooner than it can possibly be changed.

 

Stating that you will use different maintenance times for the EU pre launch and doing the opposite is a bait and switch.

 

Please link the source for this, I must've missed it.

 

Oh and Server Maintenance =/= Customer Service. That term is being used for everything nowadays.

Edited December 28, 2011 by dekey

[TiiRahnedancer]

You are making excuses for them.

 

No, I was stating the reasons I think they are doing all of the server maintenance at once and not staggering it by region. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would stagger the maintenance.

 

I used to be in the same situation as the EU community here as I used to play FFXI. Maintenance on that game was scheduled to JP off-peak hours. My downtime in that game was roughly the same as EU downtime in TOR.

 

It wasn't much of an inconvenience for me unless I wanted to play in the morning or early afternoon hours or if I had a free day that happened to coincide with server maintenance. On top of that it's only one day out of the week. I can relate due to my past experience with another game, but I think people are making way too big a deal out of this.