Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Fist of the Empire vs the Confederacy

[Canino]

Remember that, as Sel has said, Buzz Droids were only effective because they had Republic schematics.

 

While true, that only told them what to destroy to, well, destroy the ship. They can still rip apart your ships, although it may not be as effective. But it only takes one pull to vent all gas from the cockpit. Or cut life support. Or kill engines.

[Selenial]

You had a 50 page argument, I made a quick ruling that would resolve an overblown issue.

 

I really couldn't and didn't care less were the Thunderclaps came from.

 

So basically, I get nerfed because the rules say so, and Canino gets special treatment because you made his fleet?

 

Seems legit.

 

[Aurbere]

While true, that only told them what to destroy to, well, destroy the ship. They can still rip apart your ships, although it may not be as effective. But it only takes one pull to vent all gas from the cockpit. Or cut life support. Or kill engines.

 

Suppose that's true.

[Selenial]

That's not how the rule works. It allows for weapons and supplies, nothing more.

 

So do the Imperial Intelligence get the shadow arsenal?

 

#Winning

#ImperialVictory

#Aurberewins

/thread

[Canino]

So if my math is correct, Aurbere your faction has a total of 2,972 fighters and bomber combined. If someone wouldn't mind double checking, that would be great.

[Silenceo]

So do the Imperial Intelligence get the shadow arsenal?

 

#Winning

#ImperialVictory

#Aurberewins

/thread

 

All super weapons are banned. (I know you were joking, but still. )

 

Again, Sith Intelligence is unlikely to be supplying the FE with much of anything except its chief export, intel. If you want upgrades, go to the Trade Federation, they are sure to turn your best troops into morons and your strongest battleships into cargo ships.

[Selenial]

I don't care where the CIC gets its fighters. I just want to know how many I'm dealing with.

 

This is pretty much the entire issue.

 

We have no numbers to go off here and no way to know. Hell, the downside of a Broadside cruiser was that it had no fighter compliment and this was really vulnerable. Giving it free fighters is like saying "Hapan battle dragons sucked at fighter defense so they get 50 free point defense canons"

[Canino]

All super weapons are banned. (I know you were joking, but still. )

 

Again, Sith Intelligence is unlikely to be supplying the FE with much of anything except its chief export, intel. If you want upgrades, go to the Trade Federation, they are sure to turn your best troops into morons and your strongest battleships into cargo ships.

Can we not call them the FE? It is just annoying as that was my faction last round. Just to lessen confusion?

 

[Beniboybling]

I don't care where the CIC gets its fighters. I just want to know how many I'm dealing with.

I'm not sure we have a proper basis for figures, for now I'd operate under a simple quality vs quantity basis here. The Fist of the Empire will no doubt have more, but the CIC will be better quality.

 

Anyway I promised I'd outline how I see the Confederacy's strategy panning out, and its time for some proper debate.

 

The Broadsides will provide long-range fire outside of the enemy scanners, concentrating fire on the front cruisers. Then the Crusaders and Interceptors will move in, with the Crusaders leading the charge. I expect the Black Sun had quite a lot of crack pilots experienced with fighting against larger capital ships, and they will likely be piloting these vessels, perhaps coordinated by Guri in the Stinger. Combine that with unmatched speed, point defense and the fact that the enemy has predominately slow firing turbolasers and I doubt they will suffer significant casualties before closing the gap. Allowing the Interceptors to bring up the rear and fire proton torpedos at point blank range.

 

And with the ships scattered within the enemy fleet, Kilran's fleet will find it difficult to fire without damaging their own vessels, limiting their capabilities to mainly point defense and the laser cannons of the Gladiators.

 

However this will serve predominately as a diversion, a cover for Dekard transports to move in and board the rear vessels, releasing small squads of commando droids, droidekas and C-B3s whose goal will be to capture the enemy vessels and turn them against Kilran's fleet, blasting them in the rear and flanking them.

 

In this way the fleet will be caught in a pincer, and be destroyed.

 

Note, this is not me saying how the battle will pan out, just what the Confederacy will attempt to achieve.

 

P.S. I don't expect black market tech to play a big role here, unless Canino can find something important to bring to the table. Definitely more so on the ground but in space all that comes to mind is sensor jammers.

[Aurbere]

Can we not call them the FE? It is just annoying as that was my faction last round. Just to lessen confusion?

 

 

Call it the Fist. Nice, evil name.

[Selenial]

All super weapons are banned. (I know you were joking, but still. )

 

Again, Sith Intelligence is unlikely to be supplying the FE with much of anything except its chief export, intel. If you want upgrades, go to the Trade Federation, they are sure to turn your best troops into morons and your strongest battleships into cargo ships.

 

If Hapan intelligence supplies Battle Dragons, Imperial Intelligence can supply whatever the hell it wants.

 

Which likely includes schism and Rakatan tech from the Foundry....

[Beniboybling]

I'd like to also point out that discord missiles are incredibly fast, and are armed with seven buzz droids each. I doubt I need to dig up buzz droid quotes from my past Kaggaths

 

And although Dooku knows of buzz droids, Kilran would not, or their effects. Neither would his fighters. If used carefully, they could cause devastation to the Empire's fighters.

Yes, yes you do.

[Selenial]

Call it the Fist. Nice, evil name.

 

Gonna give the confederacy a good fis..... Nope,I can't say it

[Silenceo]

So if my math is correct, Aurbere your faction has a total of 2,972 fighters and bomber combined. If someone wouldn't mind double checking, that would be great.

 

Light Capital Ship: Gladiator-class star destroyer [18] x 24 = 432

Heavy Capital Ship: Harrower-class dreadnought [20] x 95 = 1900

Flagship: Invincible [Providence-class carrier/dreadnought] Unknown. (Most of its compliment was due to Vultures being on the outside)

 

So from what we can know for certain, the FE has 2332 fighter compliment. Excluding the obvious Invincible, which still unsure how much it has with these specific vessels.

[Canino]

This is pretty much the entire issue.

 

We have no numbers to go off here and no way to know. Hell, the downside of a Broadside cruiser was that it had no fighter compliment and this was really vulnerable. Giving it free fighters is like saying "Hapan battle dragons sucked at fighter defense so they get 50 free point defense canons"

 

If my fighters have their own hyperdrives, I fail to see the point of your analogy. I'm sorry I choose something else from the standard, but that is no ground to penalize me, especially as Beni was the main creator of my naval force. Could they not have launched from the desert? Or anywhere planet side?

[Selenial]

If my fighters have their own hyperdrives, I fail to see the point of your analogy. I'm sorry I choose something else from the standard, but that is no ground to penalize me, especially as Beni was the main creator of my naval force. Could they not have launched from the desert? Or anywhere planet side?

 

Well, again, it's that whilst you can launch from planet side, so could everyone else. We all however had to stick to our fleets.

 

If we all say had exactly 3,000 fighters, then this wouldn't be an issue, but we all had to have fighter numbers supplied ONLY from our capital ships or directly from suppliers (and thus in minuscule numbers)... Why should you be different?

[Silenceo]

If Hapan intelligence supplies Battle Dragons, Imperial Intelligence can supply whatever the hell it wants.

 

Which likely includes schism and Rakatan tech from the Foundry....

 

The difference being that the Hapan Battle Dragons were a unit and not a upgrade. I still think it was questionable to allow them... But they essentially were allowed similar to how other units had an affiliation with the leaders.

 

So for the Schism and the Rakatan tech, that is not Sith Intelligence's, that was Malgus/Imperial Science Division or what ever you want to call it.

 

[Canino]

If Hapan intelligence supplies Battle Dragons, Imperial Intelligence can supply whatever the hell it wants.

 

Which likely includes schism and Rakatan tech from the Foundry....

 

So can Black Sun use it's navy? Can Xizor use his biological weapons (legit question actually)?

 

You don't need to be rude. Just calm down.

[Beniboybling]

This is pretty much the entire issue.

 

We have no numbers to go off here and no way to know. Hell, the downside of a Broadside cruiser was that it had no fighter compliment and this was really vulnerable. Giving it free fighters is like saying "Hapan battle dragons sucked at fighter defense so they get 50 free point defense canons"

The Confederacies' fleets are being deployed in a manner in keeping with the Black Sun navy and the Zann Consortium fleets i.e. pirate fleets. They're capital ships were designed to be small and mobile as opposed to staging points. The Broadside is not getting "free fighters" fighters are just being deployed in a different way.

 

Altogether I'd suggest you calm yourself on this issue, lets not start yet another flame war. If I recall you told me that that is something you wanted to avoid in these Kaggaths.

 

P.S. Note that all Canino's chosen fighters are directly affiliated with his fleets i.e. they were deployed with them. If you want a how then feel free to read up on just how Black Sun and Zann Consortium fleets operated. Because they did.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

I'm not sure we have a proper basis for figures, for now I'd operate under a simple quality vs quantity basis here. The Fist of the Empire will no doubt have more, but the CIC will be better quality.

 

Anyway I promised I'd outline how I see the Confederacy's strategy panning out, and its time for some proper debate.

 

The Broadsides will provide long-range fire outside of the enemy scanners, concentrating fire on the front cruisers. Then the Crusaders and Interceptors will move in, with the Crusaders leading the charge. I expect the Black Sun had quite a lot of crack pilots experienced with fighting against larger capital ships, and they will likely be piloting these vessels, perhaps coordinated by Guri in the Stinger. Combine that with unmatched speed, point defense and the fact that the enemy has predominately slow firing turbolasers and I doubt they will suffer significant casualties before closing the gap. Allowing the Interceptors to bring up the rear and fire proton torpedos at point blank range.

 

And with the ships scattered within the enemy fleet, Kilran's fleet will find it difficult to fire without damaging their own vessels, limiting their capabilities to mainly point defense and the laser cannons of the Gladiators.

 

However this will serve predominately as a diversion, a cover for Dekard transports to move in and board the rear vessels, releasing small squads of commando droids, droidekas and C-B3s whose goal will be to capture the enemy vessels and turn them against Kilran's fleet, blasting them in the rear and flanking them.

 

In this way the fleet will be caught in a pincer, and be destroyed.

 

Note, this is not me saying how the battle will pan out, just what the Confederacy will attempt to achieve.

 

P.S. I don't expect black market tech to play a big role here, unless Canino can find something important to bring to the table. Definitely more so on the ground but in space all that comes to mind is sensor jammers.

 

While that's a decent strategy, I'll address the ship-to-ship engagement first. You seem to forget that the CIC is massively outgunned in ship-to-ship engagements. I'll post something from Wookieepedia here:

 

As the largest and most heavily-armed vessel in the Imperial Navy, a single Harrower-class dreadnought was capable of holding its own against fleets of starfighters or several smaller warships, but dreadnoughts were typically used as the backbone of the fleet

 

There are twenty Harrowers.

 

Boarding parties are all well and good, but they take away from ground forces (the ground battle happening at the same time, of course). The transports can also be taken out by the numerically superior fighters or Fury-classes.

[tunewalker]

If Hapan intelligence supplies Battle Dragons, Imperial Intelligence can supply whatever the hell it wants.

 

Which likely includes schism and Rakatan tech from the Foundry....

 

#52 Availability for ground and naval forces are mainly determined by the makeup of your leadership. You can only have access to units that at least one member of your leadership (including your organisation/supplier) has been affiliated with at one point. This does not include alliances, unless said ally had units given to them (not just for assistance but control) at some point, and not just on loan.

 

 

by the Rules and regulations as long as any member of leadership "(including your organisation/supplier)" had access to the equipment at one point in time then it would allowed to be used as your vehicle or ships or troop unit. That is why the Dragon's were allowed. This HOWEVER does not mean more can be provided, nor does it mean you can have superweapons or a high number of stuff NOT listed in your original list as per

 

Rule

#28 The role of an organisation is to provide anything else such as intelligence, criminal influence, black market assets, technology etc. they are also able to provide armour and armaments but not in large quantities, nor can they be a manufacturer.

 

 

The Dragon's were allowed to be chosen as a Naval Unit as per rule 52, however I never argued that I could get command guns and the like from Hapans as that would break Rule 28.

Edited August 7, 2014 by tunewalker

[Silenceo]

we all had to have fighter numbers supplied ONLY from our capital ships or directly from suppliers (and thus in minuscule numbers)... Why should you be different?

 

Because all of our respective navies had that doctrine and that is how they tended to go about carrying out their business.

 

The Black Sun did not.

 

They were not an official force, they were pirates. Fitting in this doctrine, they did not rely on each other as heavily and instead opted for self sufficiency. Meaning that the standard/doctrine for the Black Sun, was for each vessel to be able to get to the target without being carried by others. As the other navies had their doctrine of carriers, Black Sun had their pilots transport themselves separate from the capital ships.

[tunewalker]

Because all of our respective navies had that doctrine and that is how they tended to go about carrying out their business.

 

The Black Sun did not.

 

They were not an official force, they were pirates. Fitting in this doctrine, they did not rely on each other as heavily and instead opted for self sufficiency. Meaning that the standard/doctrine for the Black Sun, was for each vessel to be able to get to the target without being carried by others. As the other navies had their doctrine of carriers, Black Sun had their pilots transport themselves separate from the capital ships.

 

The CIC isnt the Black sun, they are the CIC and I figured EVERYONE MUST conform to the rules set forth in the Kaggath rule book.

[Aurbere]

The CIC isnt the Black sun, they are the CIC and I figured EVERYONE MUST conform to the rules set forth in the Kaggath rule book.

 

Pirates cheat... apparently...

[Silenceo]

The CIC isnt the Black sun, they are the CIC and I figured EVERYONE MUST conform to the rules set forth in the Kaggath rule book.

 

It actually kinda is...

 

Naval Officers: Black Sun

 

Leader Prince Xizor...

 

The ships for the most part are even Black Sun.

 

At best, this is just like the Imperial Droid Division being part of the Galactic Empire. It is not the whole of it, but merely a piece of it, like a special fleet designated for certain areas or duties.