Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Fist of the Empire vs the Confederacy

[Canino]

What this attack does is put the CIC into an unwinnable position. If it ignores the rumors of an attack, Dooku can use that as leverage against the CCN and Black Sun. CCN will understand that Xizor is not to be trusted (how they don't see that is beyond me, considering he's a criminal), and Black Sun will question their loyalties to a man who doesn't respond to a potential attack.

 

But it doesn't matter if they go to defend these worlds because they will still be ambushed upon return. And once that ambush happens, the broadsides will be targeted and eliminated, effectively eliminating any chance your fleet has at winning a fleet engagement.

 

And regarding the CCNs defection. The question isn't who can offer more, it's about connections and, above all trust. The fact is that Xizor is a crime lord, the Colicoids are very intelligent and obviously would recognize this. Any rational thinking being would know that they aren't to be trusted. On the other hand, the Colicoids have worked with both Dooku and the Trade Federation before. They can trust both of them. They can't trust Xizor.

 

Actually, the only people to know this were Palps, Guri, and Black Sun. Everyone else in the galaxy knew him from his legitimate business empire. That is how he made his trillions (yes, trillions). That is how he built his palace, that launched him to his position of power (Black Sun only reinforced this). The Colicoids will not know that he is a criminal. It is likely that Black Sun is a secret organization. They were a shadow organization, after all.

 

If not, than think of it this way. They can work with Xizor, or they can face his wrath. He has only bombarded a planet- Tatooine, actually. In defiance to Vader. Who he fought with only a daily basis. And he was only the third most powerful man in the galaxy.

 

I mean its not like he was known to massacre groups of people that defected from Black Sun. Or use biological weapons.

 

 

On an unrelated note, I'll add more later. Anything I've missed?

Edited August 16, 2014 by Canino

[Silenceo]

On an unrelated note, I'll add more later. Anything I've missed?

 

Assassination arguments. They know of Guri, but what do they know of her capabilities? Or of Urai Fen or Durge, both of which the Fist does not know they have on their side. Both of these beings can be considered ancient due to their life spans, which helps with with great amount of experience in assassination.

 

Tatooine's garrison base if I remember correctly was just like any other imperial garrison, was it not? Either way, Urai Fen has broken into, assassinated in, and stolen from just such Imperial bases before. If he has Durge to back him up, they could completely wreck the internal systems with only Ventress MAYBE and Dooku definitely being able to stop them. I say maybe to Ventress because Durge could just laugh at her light sabers as he did to Obi-wan. Fen on the other hand has shown to be quite skilled in using his dual blades. If they are both present, Ventress would be unable to win. Nor do they have to be there long, merely break/sneak in, wreck something vital, such as the armory or the air conditioning, and leave.

 

Yes, I said the air conditioning.

 

If their troops are unable to escape the heat 24/7 then the battle is already won for the CIC. With Tatooines heat? The troops would experience real problems. Dehydration, heat stroke, and worse in the comforts of their own base. They don't even have to trek out to the desert to pick it up! By now you are thinking so they will repair it. Well, if Black Sun does what has been proposed, the majority of the populace will be in their hands due to how highly concentrated scum is on the planet of Tatooine. It would be a simple matter to make sure they do not get the repairs, replacements, or ect. Even if they did, Hey Durge, Fen, mind stopping by again?

 

It sounds ridiculous, but if you think about it, it is one of those small things that will throw a wrench in the Fist war machine. Even the most disciplined soldiers can not march all the way to Jabba's palace with Heat Stroke, they would soon die out in the desert if it was attempted. The CIC does not have to beat the Fist, they just need to beat the heat and ensure the Fist does not. Not to mention have you ever noticed in the heat when you are out there too long how the heat drains your energy? If the temperature is really around 140-160, and black uniforms... They will not be able to be in the sun for long durations without difficulties. At the best, they only move at night.

 

Edited August 16, 2014 by Silenceo

[Selenial]

Canino, imperial troops changed armor color all the time.

 

There's a pure white version that we've seen on multiple occasions, no need to just presume they'd keep black "'CUZ EMPIRE!!!1!1!1!1!1!!!!!!"

[Selenial]

Actually, the only people to know this were Palps, Guri, and Black Sun. Everyone else in the galaxy knew him from his legitimate business empire. That is how he made his trillions (yes, trillions). That is how he built his palace, that launched him to his position of power (Black Sun only reinforced this). The Colicoids will not know that he is a criminal. It is likely that Black Sun is a secret organization. They were a shadow organization, after all.

 

If not, than think of it this way. They can work with Xizor, or they can face his wrath. He has only bombarded a planet- Tatooine, actually. In defiance to Vader. Who he fought with only a daily basis. And he was only the third most powerful man in the galaxy.

 

I mean its not like he was known to massacre groups of people that defected from Black Sun. Or use biological weapons.

 

 

On an unrelated note, I'll add more later. Anything I've missed?

 

 

Right, empire full of criminal scum could totally keep secrets from Ventress and the nigh-infinite wealth of the Trade Federation.

 

Also, not sure why you're rambling on about Xizor's personal funds, he gets none of them. Only funds he'd have access to would be the funds that an actual Vigo of the Black sun had...

Edited August 16, 2014 by Selenial

[Canino]

Canino, imperial troops changed armor color all the time.

 

There's a pure white version that we've seen on multiple occasions, no need to just presume they'd keep black "'CUZ EMPIRE!!!1!1!1!1!1!!!!!!"

 

True, That, however, doesn't change the fact that they will be severely affected by the heat. You can't deny that.

 

And, Sil, those are good ideas. And my plan from the beginning was to let the Fist hurt themselves. It is obvious that in a straight confrontation, the Fist would win, although the CIC would fight well. That is why I mentioned the heat, transports, and everything else. If the Fist can't get to Xizor, they can't kill him. And he won't come to them.

[Beniboybling]

I'm calling BS on this.

 

I was forced to take a transport for my troops. I could have had walkers, or bigger guns. But I have transports. If you don't, that stinks. But you could have chosen them. But you didn't- hence marching though the desert.

 

You have walkers, but as my quote showed, walkers are prone to falling on uneven terrain. The majority of your troops will be walking. And even with a walker, that will only draw Sand People to your location faster. And mine.

You have a transport equipped with a cloaking device, how dare you complain.

 

Seriously though its right there in the rulebook:

 

#57 All ground forces will also come with appropriate transportation for deployment. Though this does not include anything classable as a gunship, and said transportation, be it a vehicle or a starship, cannot under be used in combat in anything other than self-defence.

 

But your correct you would not get these. (Sad times.)

 

But these are perfectly acceptable and what the Empire will most likely use to deploy their troops into hot zones.

[Canino]

Right, empire full of criminal scum could totally keep secrets from Ventress and the nigh-infinite wealth of the Trade Federation.

 

Also, not sure why you're rambling on about Xizor's personal funds, he gets none of them. Only funds he'd have access to would be the funds that an actual Vigo of the Black sun had...

 

I know he doesn't get any funds. I asked that question in the beginning. But I was just pointing out that that is how he made his cash. I guess you could call it background info.

 

And I think they could. Black Sun under Xizor has never really has a security breach, and that is not without a lack of trying. And again, The Trade Federation was gone when Xizor took power, as was Ventress ( at least that is what we know). And infinite wealth? I think Black Sun has them beat.

[Silenceo]

I can not find a picture online to confirm it without checking, but perhaps someone should login and go to Tatooine, to, eh, check the 'Tatooine Imperial Uniform' if ya know what I mean. And YES, GAME MECHANICS RAWR! Except, it is really one of their very few showings, kinda like lots of info about Jerec comes from a game, or Kyle Katarn as well. It is information that is untampered with by players, and set by the developers, so going to see if I can log on soon to check this. I could of sworn I saw them in black...

[Selenial]

True, That, however, doesn't change the fact that they will be severely affected by the heat. You can't deny that.

 

And, Sil, those are good ideas. And my plan from the beginning was to let the Fist hurt themselves. It is obvious that in a straight confrontation, the Fist would win, although the CIC would fight well. That is why I mentioned the heat, transports, and everything else. If the Fist can't get to Xizor, they can't kill him. And he won't come to them.

I can deny it all I want

 

A quote from the SWTORE that I posted last Kaggath states that the Republic trooper armor was designed to allow the user to cope with all kinds of weather and heat conditions.

 

It's foolish to think that the supposedly better (better than standard forces, not SpecForces) Imperial armor wouldn't do the same.

[Canino]

You have a transport equipped with a cloaking device, how dare you complain.

 

Seriously though its right there in the rulebook:

 

#57 All ground forces will also come with appropriate transportation for deployment. Though this does not include anything classable as a gunship, and said transportation, be it a vehicle or a starship, cannot under be used in combat in anything other than self-defence.

 

But your correct you would not get these. (Sad times.)

 

But these are perfectly acceptable and what the Empire will most likely use to deploy their troops into hot zones.

 

That is completely unfair. Then can I change my transports? Cause I would much rather have something heavy duty than transports, if I already have them.

 

If I was forced to take transports to move my forces, he should too. I can't believe this. That is completely and utterly unfair.

 

This is actually quite upsetting.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Canino

[Selenial]

I can not find a picture online to confirm it without checking, but perhaps someone should login and go to Tatooine, to, eh, check the 'Tatooine Imperial Uniform' if ya know what I mean. And YES, GAME MECHANICS RAWR! Except, it is really one of their very few showings, kinda like lots of info about Jerec comes from a game, or Kyle Katarn as well. It is information that is untampered with by players, and set by the developers, so going to see if I can log on soon to check this. I could of sworn I saw them in black...

 

Just more proof that the armor allows them to cope with it, and that color is only used for Camo on certain planets.

 

Thanks Sil! *thumbsup*

[Selenial]

I know he doesn't get any funds. I asked that question in the beginning. But I was just pointing out that that is how he made his cash. I guess you could call it background info.

 

And I think they could. Black Sun under Xizor has never really has a security breach, and that is not without a lack of trying. And again, The Trade Federation was gone when Xizor took power, as was Ventress ( at least that is what we know). And infinite wealth? I think Black Sun has them beat.

 

Missing the point entirely.

 

If they torture or bribe a Black sun lieutenant or Vigo into getting proof of Xizor's criminal proceedings, he's done for.

 

IMPERIAL INTELLIGENCE BRO

[Canino]

I can deny it all I want

 

A quote from the SWTORE that I posted last Kaggath states that the Republic trooper armor was designed to allow the user to cope with all kinds of weather and heat conditions.

 

It's foolish to think that the supposedly better (better than standard forces, not SpecForces) Imperial armor wouldn't do the same.

 

This armor can allow them to survive in 140-160 (on the lowest) for extended period of time? Someone should invent this IRL

 

 

I'm not arguing this anymore. I've said my piece.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Canino

[Canino]

Missing the point entirely.

 

If they torture or bribe a Black sun lieutenant or Vigo into getting proof of Xizor's criminal proceedings, he's done for.

 

IMPERIAL INTELLIGENCE BRO

 

They can have fun flying from Dromund Kaas to Tatooine. That takes multiple days. Nar Shaddaa is likely the same. And have fun finding the Vigos. Almost no one who they are. And they can keep themselves protected.

 

And torture? I refer to my Xizor fear argument. You don't cross Xizor unless you wish to die. It is that simple. And if you do, you can't live in the galaxy anymore.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Canino

[Silenceo]

Just more proof that the armor allows them to cope with it, and that color is only used for Camo on certain planets.

 

Thanks Sil! *thumbsup*

 

Refer to earlier mention of how terrible the Imperial Troopers were doing on Tatooine. Perhaps there is a connection, eh? Black + heat = bad. Besides, does it actually have any quotes or precidents for it being similar to the republic soldiers armor in that capability? If design philosophy is anything to go by....Then no...

 

Let us compare, how much did the Sith Empire value its individual soldiers lives? How much did the Republic? There in lies the difference. This would very much be like me saying since Storm troopers have such nice armor, Rebel Soldiers had armor that is just as great... Hey, wait a minute!!!

 

If there is no proof for them having tech in their suits *quick are quite thin by the way...more like cloth with small pieces of armor around the head and arms...* then they simply do not have it. Lack of evidence is not evidence it self.

[Silenceo]

I too call BS on the argument that the Fist would get transports. The CIC had to specifically choose those to get access to such an advantage, greatly sacrificing firepower. If you nulify that with this silly ruling, then that will throw all of the balance out of the window.

 

Heck, I might even argue when the IDD comes up again that they should get Transports as well so I do not have to use my Enforcer droids, which I got in part to carry my forces quickly, to carry my troops around.

 

You are essentially giving the Fist another vehicle while denying the CIC one. An inherent imbalance.

 

Side Note: It is said they are there only for deployment, aka dropping them on the planet, at their base. NOT for deploying at the enemies base or moving units around. For all intents and purposes by that point they do not exist unless the faction wants to get their troops back to their star ships. Any other ruling is inherently imbalanced, if such a thing really should go through, then we should have had a separate category to drop in our favorite transports.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Silenceo

[Canino]

I too call BS on the argument that the Fist would get transports. The CIC had to specifically choose those to get access to such an advantage, greatly sacrificing firepower. If you nulify that with this silly ruling, then that will throw all of the balance out of the window.

 

Heck, I might even argue when the IDD comes up again that they should get Transports as well so I do not have to use my Enforcer droids, which I got in part to carry my forces quickly, to carry my troops around.

 

You are essentially giving the Fist another vehicle while denying the CIC one. An inherent imbalance.

 

Thank you. Its nice to know someone agrees with me.

 

As for Black armor on Tatooine, I found

. Its from launch, but I doubt they've changed it. You can see multiple Imperials in normal gear.

[Selenial]

This armor can allow them to survive in 140-160 (on the lowest) for extended period of time? Someone should invent this IRL

 

 

I'm not arguing this anymore. I've said my piece.

 

Youre not serious are you?

 

Someone should also invent:

Lightsabers

Speeders

Blasters

Ships

Capital ships

The mother *********** force

A Death Star

Jawas

Ewoks

Space Stations that are accessible to the public.

Shields

Armor that survives thousand foot drops

teleporters

Hyper.... NEED I GO ON?

Edited August 16, 2014 by Selenial

[Canino]

Youre not serious are you?

 

Someone should also invent:

Lightsabers

Speeders

Blasters

Ships

Capital ships

The mother *********** force

A Death Star

Jawas

Ewoks

Space Stations that are accessible to the public.

Shields

Armor that survives thousand foot drops

teleporters

Hyper.... NEED I GO ON?

 

I agree. Someone should get on all of these.

 

Of course I was kidding. Though, I understand why my sarcasm wasn't picked up on. I was a little terse in that post, so it was likely lost in translation.

[Selenial]

I too call BS on the argument that the Fist would get transports. The CIC had to specifically choose those to get access to such an advantage, greatly sacrificing firepower. If you nulify that with this silly ruling, then that will throw all of the balance out of the window.

 

Heck, I might even argue when the IDD comes up again that they should get Transports as well so I do not have to use my Enforcer droids, which I got in part to carry my forces quickly, to carry my troops around.

 

You are essentially giving the Fist another vehicle while denying the CIC one. An inherent imbalance.

 

Side Note: It is said they are there only for deployment, aka dropping them on the planet, at their base. NOT for deploying at the enemies base or moving units around. For all intents and purposes by that point they do not exist unless the faction wants to get their troops back to their star ships. Any other ruling is inherently imbalanced, if such a thing really should go through, then we should have had a separate category to drop in our favorite transports.

 

*looks at Rulebook*

 

Nope, that ones pretty clear.

 

Canino already spent his 1 free "**** the rules" card by getting Starfighters, you can't really ask for more.

[Selenial]

I agree. Someone should get on all of these.

 

Of course I was kidding. Though, I understand why my sarcasm wasn't picked up on. I was a little terse in that post, so it was likely lost in translation.

 

But I want a lightsaber

[Silenceo]

Jawas

Ewoks

NEED I GO ON?

 

You might need to go on concerning these two... I fail to understand why you would WANT to invent them... Both are quite popular to kill/maim/beat up, but what other purpose would they have?

[Beniboybling]

That is completely unfair. Then can I change my transports? Cause I would much rather have something heavy duty than transports, if I already have them.

 

If I was forced to take transports to move my forces, he should too. I can't believe this. That is completely and utterly unfair.

 

This is actually quite upsetting.

I fail to see the issue here. We are talking about a basic unarmed transport, which the absence of which would make it impossible to land troops on the surface, or move them to points inaccessible to ground vehicles/off planet.

 

I apologize if you somehow thought that you had to take a transport to move your troops effectively, I assume you took it for the same reason I suggested it, to smuggle troops behind enemy lines unseen i.e. its purpose. However I never led you to believe or implied this, a misunderstanding of the rules - however unfortunate - is not "unfair", just bad luck.

 

Indeed I fail to see, considering this feature, how you can claim it is somehow inferior to a standard armored vehicle.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

You might need to go on concerning these two... I fail to understand why you would WANT to invent them... Both are quite popular to kill/maim/beat up, but what other purpose would they have?

 

A living teddy bear, and a foot tall alien who carries around bazookas?

 

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I want them both

[Selenial]

If I was forced to take transports to move my forces, he should too. I can't believe this.

 

**** happens. You, (like me) couldn't be assed to read all 200 rules.

 

Still a useful and advantageous vehicle, deal with it.