Hahaha Legacy Storage only has 5 tabs for 50 million credits

[BuriDogshin]

RE: a Stronghold:

It's not free because I paid (real money) for it.

Screenshot or it didn't happen. Show us the bill you paid for a Stronghold.

 

If you can even show that subscription rates went up because of the new content, I'll accept that. But when you subscribe to a service, and they start giving you more services for the same price, I call that increase in services "free."

 

Here's an example: Cox Cable just this week doubled my Internet connection speeds (from 50mbps to 100mbps) with no change in the cost of the service. I call that a free upgrade. What would you call it?

[BuriDogshin]

I'm sorry, did I kick your kitten or something? All I did was show what subs get as opposed to what F2P gets. Spare me your hysterical ramblings about freedom of choice and opinions.

The problem is that you injected some inconvenient truths into the discussion, you sadistic meanie, you.

[TX_Angel]

Here's an example: Cox Cable just this week doubled my Internet connection speeds (from 50mbps to 100mbps) with no change in the cost of the service. I call that a free upgrade. What would you call it?

 

It is not a free upgrade, it is an upgrade that you're paying for as part of the service.

 

The original speed 10 years ago was a lot slower as well, but had you (and millions of other people) not been paying for 10 years, there would be no 100mbps service today.

 

Part of what you pay each month covers current service, part of it pays for future upgrades.

 

Part of the monthly fee I pay for SWTOR pays for the servers today, part of it pays for future development.

 

So that future "content" is NOT free, it was paid for one month at a time.

 

Or do you think Cox would have very many customers if their max speed was still 1.5mbps and they still charged $50 a month for it?

[Oneirophrenia]

Seems like certain people are still in denial regarding the logic behind BW setting the full LS unlock price at 50 million credits. Let's go over some quick facts first.

 

1. F2P cartel coins model has made BW/EA quite a lot of money, far more than what they were making from monthly subscription fees when the game first started under the traditional model. Basically BW/EA took a page out of the Turbine playbook after the successful conversion of DDO and LOTRO to the hybrid model.

 

2. Microtransaction model is immensely profitable for gaming companies. It is the sole reason why the mobile gaming subsector is still alive despite being so specialized. A quick glance through Apple app store and Google Play illustrate this fact rather well. Frankly speaking, if a poorly run one-trick-pony company like Zynga can somehow manage to conjure up enough institutional investor backing to go public, that alone is an indication of the confidence behind the F2P industry's earning potential.

 

3. Currently there are two separate economies which co-exist in hybrid F2P games like TOR. One is the purely virtual economy that is wholly dependent on the value of the virtual currency being circulated. The other is the exchange economy which entails the exchange of real money for microtransaction currency. In other words, no goods are technically manufactured and the price of exchange is fixed. Second Life pioneered this system with their Linden dollars (although that was a floating rate system) where as subsequent F2P games went with the fixed rate system instead in order to avoid regulatory hassles.

 

4. The vast majority of F2P gamers (MMO or otherwise) do not spend very much on microtransactions, if at all. In terms of F2P games as a whole, various industry studies have indicated that only about 2-2.5% of players spend real currency to make in-game purchases. The percentile for just the players of F2P MMOs is unknown but it is likely to be greater as MMOs generally involve an increased level of vested interest and emotional attachment. Still, it is doubtful that the percentile would be drastically higher than that 2-2.5% figure due to the fact that real life financial constraints will still enter the equation at some point.

 

Now what does any of this have to do with BW's price point for LS unlocks? Simple. Because the microtransaction model has been so successful in "raking in the dough" for BW/EA, they now see this as the preferred in-game currency model. Secondly, because the microtransaction utilization percentage is so low, they also see that as a potential for significant revenue growth after which comes the natural push to get more players to spend real money. Their focus certainly wouldn't be on existing big spenders since those folk are already established and they will spend money on CC regardless of the credit pricing structure. In financial terms, increasing the high-margin product penetration rate among existing clients is either the number one or number two driver of growth for a wide variety of consumer services companies.

 

To support the above revenue growth and increased CC utilization ratio objectives, apparently BW has now decided to set the credit "entry barrier" higher for newly introduced desireable features so that more players would be steered toward buying CCs instead. Given that MMO players are well known for being impatient, the decision to either "spend $20 to unlock it in 5 mins or spend 6 months to grind out the credits" is not a competitive one at all. To correlate this strategy with another industry, it is widely known that various airlines have been steadily increasing their award travel redemption cost during recent years. Unless you are a "Platinum" level frequent flyer (MileagePlus 1K, Skymiles Platinum, AAdvantage Platinum Elite, etc) or above, chances are you have found out first hand that earning enough miles for redemption has also become increasingly difficult as a result. It is also the same with banking as institutions have set their savings and CD rates to non-existant level in order to push more rate/return conscious clients into investing which is infinitely more profitable than regular banking accounts.

 

Now some of you may still say; "well, BW can make the credit cost for unlock reasonable while continuing to steer more players toward spending real currency on CCs". No sorry, the two concepts are mutually exclusive. If you wish to steer clients toward a certain direction, you don't make it easier for them to go the other direction. Assuming I'm Verizon or AT&T and wants more of my customers to switch to the more expensive (and more profitable) tiered data plans, I would make it as difficult as possible for customers to keep their grandfathered unlimited plans. Sure enough, that is precisely what they have been doing. With that said, given the prevalence of this strategy across various major economic sectors, it is beyond me how some people still refuses to see it.

 

Mark my words, if BW manages to push this 50 million pricing through without significant blowback, it willl not be the last time we see that high a price for other new and much desired QoL features. The end result of that process would be the continual devaluation of credits since CCs would in effect become the preferred TOR currency. BW/EA has the right to make a profit but this type of blatant cash grab is just too hard to swallow.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[Syart]

lolol 160 mats ahhahaha including new additions in strongholds there will be over 230 mats and crafting components and no such thing as useless mats (especially in stronghold crafting), everything will be needed from multiple crafting skills and missions. So that's 3 packed tabs already without a single duplicate stack, let alone even taking about storing there something else like legacy armor sets, unbounded items or vendor tokens. Or the fact that 3.0 will obviously bring another batch of new mats just like 2.0 did that will push the number of non-duplicate stacks even further

 

sounds to me like you aren't a crafter, haven't even bothered to check what changes in crafting in strongholds and you're just making stuff up to defend perfectly absurd prices bw is providing us for expanded tabs thar are required to utilize legacy aspect of the cargo in a significant degree.

 

qft

[Quraswren]

SNIP...

 

 

Mark my words, if BW manages to push this 50 million pricing through without significant blowback, it willl not be the last time we see that high a price for other new and much desired QoL features. The end result of that process would be the continual devaluation of credits since CCs would in effect become the preferred TOR currency. BW/EA has the right to make a profit but this type of blatant cash grab is just too hard to swallow.

 

Excellent post. Our gamers currently view it as a disappointment. It had potential but given it's credit wall after one tab and the push for a CC purchase due to high cost and it's limited capacity, it's just an afterthought now VS being something of more interest. One tab wont cut it and the rest seems like a CC grab.

 

It's all resulted in a feeling of disappointment. No wonder BW held onto this information for so long. They knew the knock-back this would receive.

[BuriDogshin]

It is not a free upgrade, it is an upgrade that you're paying for as part of the service.

No, my contract with them is pretty clear, it says I am paying $X and they are delivering 50mbps of service. That's all I am paying for, by mutual agreement. They never promised I'd get any more than that, ever. Cox just decided to give me more than that. For free. I wasn't entitled to it. They did not owe it to me. It's a gift. It's free.

[ivanhedgehog]

RE: a Stronghold:

 

Screenshot or it didn't happen. Show us the bill you paid for a Stronghold.

 

If you can even show that subscription rates went up because of the new content, I'll accept that. But when you subscribe to a service, and they start giving you more services for the same price, I call that increase in services "free."

 

Here's an example: Cox Cable just this week doubled my Internet connection speeds (from 50mbps to 100mbps) with no change in the cost of the service. I call that a free upgrade. What would you call it?

 

the devs did say that if you stayed subscribed you got the hut. subscribed=payed for it..simple truth..carry on.

[ivanhedgehog]

No, my contract with them is pretty clear, it says I am paying $X and they are delivering 50mbps of service. That's all I am paying for, by mutual agreement. They never promised I'd get any more than that, ever. Cox just decided to give me more than that. For free. I wasn't entitled to it. They did not owe it to me. It's a gift. It's free.

 

they improved the service because they want to retain market shre. they dont do anything because they like you. they realize that if they do not remain competitive they will soon be out of business. That is a simple truth of business, not a slam.

[Lotharofxev]

People should read Oneiphrenia's write-up.

 

It is also the same with banking as institutions have set their savings and CD rates to non-existant level in order to push more rate/return conscious clients into investing which is infinitely more profitable than regular banking accounts.

 

Or NIRP.

 

One area you overlooked was credit sellers. Granted an army (or prison) of free labor helps, but they are a part (whether we like it or not) of the economy as well.

[AlienEyeTX]

No, my contract with them is pretty clear, it says I am paying $X and they are delivering 50mbps of service. That's all I am paying for, by mutual agreement. They never promised I'd get any more than that, ever. Cox just decided to give me more than that. For free. I wasn't entitled to it. They did not owe it to me. It's a gift. It's free.

 

No, it's a change to the service plan, not a free upgrade. If they change the parameters of the tier of service that you are paying for, you should pay the same price because you are paying by tier, not by speed. A free upgrade would be if they left the tiers the same and bumped you up a tier at no additional cost.

 

Like getting bumped up to business class from coach when you fly. If, instead, they make all the coach seats larger and don't change the price of your ticket, that is not a free upgrade. It is still a coach seat.

[Oneirophrenia]

One area you overlooked was credit sellers. Granted an army (or prison) of free labor helps, but they are a part (whether we like it or not) of the economy as well.

 

Well I glossed over that because the amount in question (50 million) is so high, it would still make more financial sense to buy CC to unlock it instead. I don't know for certain what the going rate per million is right now but buying 50 million credits from sellers is certainly going to be a lot more expensive than buying 2400 CC directly from BW (someone mentioned that figure earlier as the full unlock price).

[Tsillah]

Well I glossed over that because the amount in question (50 million) is so high, it would still make more financial sense to buy CC to unlock it instead. I don't know for certain what the going rate per million is right now but buying 50 million credits from sellers is certainly going to be a lot more expensive than buying 2400 CC directly from BW (someone mentioned that figure earlier as the full unlock price).

 

I was quoted 2500 cc per tab so 10k cc total so that's about 5-6 month's worth of sub as a comparison.

[Infernixx]

When the sky doesn't fall...again....what will the Chicken Littles do? I mean, predicting more doom in the near future...

[Tsillah]

When the sky doesn't fall...again....what will the Chicken Littles do? I mean, predicting more doom in the near future...

 

Do you ever get tired of yourself?

 

Honestly, that I-know-everything-better attitude has lost its charm since about 10000 posts ago.

[BuriDogshin]

When the sky doesn't fall...again....what will the Chicken Littles do? I mean, predicting more doom in the near future...

I think they'll just keep being jealous of those of us who keep enjoying the game. How dare we?

 

I know I will love even one tab of Legacy Storage, just from the little bit of time I played with it on the PTS.

I'll love it so much I'll pay BW some cash to expand it.

[MillionsKNives]

I think they'll just keep being jealous of those of us who keep enjoying the game. How dare we?

 

I know I will love even one tab of Legacy Storage, just from the little bit of time I played with it on the PTS.

I'll love it so much I'll pay BW some cash to expand it.

 

Yeah that's it, everyone is just jealous of you. And who wouldn't be, after all you're the one keeping the servers running.

[Oneirophrenia]

I was quoted 2500 cc per tab so 10k cc total so that's about 5-6 month's worth of sub as a comparison.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

I just did a quick Google on the cost per million but won't post it here as to not give the moderators any excuses. What I will say is that the cost of buying enough credits to unlock a tab is still several times higher than purchasing 2500 CC from BW.

[Tsillah]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

I just did a quick Google on the cost per million but won't post it here as to not give the moderators any excuses. What I will say is that the cost of buying enough credits to unlock a tab is still several times higher than purchasing 2500 CC from BW.

 

Well considering that up till now nothing cost more than 5 million like a gtn in your ship for ALL your toons, I don't think it's wise to suddenly up that to tens of millions for all kinds of stuff. It's overwhelming for a lot of people and a step that many people didn't see coming.

 

An account unlock for the cargo bay is 1050 CC. Now it's not the same but where the legacy storage gives 1 tab accessible by all toons, the cargo bay gives up to 22 storage bays (1 for each toon). They each have different advantages but I certainly would've classed them somewhere in the same vicinity. 2500 cc therefore doesn't seem a fair price to me. It's the type of price I would expect from a straight f2p game like perfect world. Companies are just trying what they can to make as much money. They can try and I am sure some will accept those prices. I'm not one of them.

[Oneirophrenia]

Yeah that's it, everyone is just jealous of you. And who wouldn't be, after all you're the one keeping the servers running.

 

Despite his high "disposable" income that he keeps bragging about (as if he's somehow unique in that department), here is a classic example of a guy who will most likely run out of money in retirement. Spending hundreds of dollars in an MMO every month just because he can afford to doesn't make it a sound financial decision. In fact, it shows a complete lack of discpline and misplaced priorities. If he has a financial advisor or retirement planner and was informed of this, that person would probably slap him silly.

 

I too can spend like that without batting an eye but I have better use for the money whether it is real estate investment, expanding my side business or maximizing contribution into retirement plans. Heck, even using that money on a long vacation or dining at Michelin starred restaurants is a better option considering those experiences actually provide memories that last a life time. I have yet to play a video game where years later I would look back and fondly recall, "wow, that was a once in a life time experience". If anything, the MMO memory that I personally would recall regularly is, "wow, I can't believe I spent that much time camping rare spawns in EQ".

Edited July 29, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[Infernixx]

Do you ever get tired of yourself?

 

Honestly, that I-know-everything-better attitude has lost its charm since about 10000 posts ago.

 

I could make comments about people who pay money to not enjoy the game, but I won't.

[ikinai]

Hmm, I wonder if we'll be getting more credits per mission and per daily at level 60 than we are at level 55?

[Darth_Wicked]

Hmm, I wonder if we'll be getting more credits per mission and per daily at level 60 than we are at level 55?

 

Dailies on Makeb are not as profitable as the dailies on Ilum, as far as the actual mission reward in credits is concerned.

 

There's other stuff to consider though, such as the fact that mobs on Makeb probably drop more lootz, creds and precious little shinies. Lots of shinies.

[Anaesha]

Hmm, I wonder if we'll be getting more credits per mission and per daily at level 60 than we are at level 55?

 

Probably but then again 3.0 probably won't come out until December at the earliest.

[Darth_Wicked]

Probably but then again 3.0 probably won't come out until December at the earliest.

 

You mean at the latest. They've already said recently it's supposed to be released this year still.