Guildships COST 50 MILLION CREDITS!?

[LanceCorporalDan]

I think they might lower the price after release.

[TUXs]

I think they might lower the price after release.

Since it appears to only be the normal 5-6 people defending the prices as they are, I hope you're right...but I hope they adjust it BEFORE release

[LanceCorporalDan]

Since it appears to only be the normal 5-6 people defending the prices as they are, I hope you're right...but I hope they adjust it BEFORE release

 

They may. Another poster on a thread in my server's forums mentioned how it would be easier for Bw to set a high price originally, and then lower it. As opposed to setting a low price and raising it. It made sense to me at least, and I am gambling on some kind of adjustment either before release or shortly after.

Edited July 29, 2014 by LanceCorporalDan

[Infernixx]

Satisfied people don't generally post. Complainers do.

 

Me, I do it out of boredom and everyone's flagged on the Forums.

[Nickious]

Satisfied people don't generally post. Complainers do.

 

Me, I do it out of boredom and everyone's flagged on the Forums.

 

The majority of users don't even use the forums. I think even less people would use the PTS, and even know of these prices. You can bet that alot more unsatisfied users will be here complaining when they see the price of storage.

[Khevar]

Since it appears to only be the normal 5-6 people defending the prices as they are, I hope you're right...but I hope they adjust it BEFORE release

Just so you know, some of us aren't actually defending the price. They could drop it to 25 million, 10 million, or even free, for all I care. I've got no vested interest in it being a high price.

 

I'm merely fighting against the idea that 50 million is some vast, impossible goal for a group of people.

 

Some of the complainers have contributed ZERO credits towards the purchase of a guild flagship in the EIGHTEEN WEEKS since it's official announcement. This is the worst form of complaining -- put zero effort and then claim they can't afford it.

 

Not everyone is like this, of course. But many people say things like "I've never had more than X credits across all my toons", or "my guild bank has never had more than Y credits ever", so "how are we supposed to have this kind of money?"

 

See, many of the people in my own guild are perennially broke. Like, begging for credits broke. And yet, when faced with wanting a guild flagship, have magically discovered they CAN make money. Some of them are super proud of this fact and now brag about having made credits and donated them to the guild bank.

 

How is it that some people see this barrier (50 million) and come together and figure out ways to solve it? While some others insist this is all an impossible, horrible nightmare?

[OddballEasyEight]

I'm merely fighting against the idea that 50 million is some vast, impossible goal for a group of people.

Same thing here. But every time I mention it I get bombarded with insults and hyperbole.

[Tsillah]

I'm merely fighting against the idea that 50 million is some vast, impossible goal for a group of people.

 

And why are you fighting against this?

 

And what makes you so sure except your apparent assumption that you know the minimum standard for all of mankind?

 

I've seen players struggle with things in game that I find a piece of cake. Some people just don't have the same abilities or insight. Call it what you want it but there are people out there that suck at gaming. There really is no reason for you to fight against this.

 

So, again, why are you fighting against this?

[TUXs]

Just so you know, some of us aren't actually defending the price. They could drop it to 25 million, 10 million, or even free, for all I care. I've got no vested interest in it being a high price.

 

I'm merely fighting against the idea that 50 million is some vast, impossible goal for a group of people.

I'm not at all suggesting 50 million is impossible for some - but it sure as hell is for others. SWTOR is a single player MMO - to suddenly gate new content behind a 50 million credit barrier, will most certainly prevent plenty of people from ever experiencing it. 50 million is simply outrageous.

[Darkheyr]

For some people, it effectively is impossible. Not theoretically impossible - no number of credits ever would be - but practically impossible - as in, its never going to happen.

 

I've seen calculations of people grinding X credits per day for X days, and thus thinking to prove that 50 million credits is attainable. They completely disregard the fact that for a great number of players, being online for every day of that, grinding out credits for every day of that is, in reality, neither possible nor anywhere near reasonable.

 

What is reasonable, in my eyes, is the expectation that every type of guild had the possibility to access guild ships within reasonable amounts of time and effort. If that price tag remains, this expectation falls short.

 

Asking casual gamers in small guilds to either set away a month of their play time allotment or wait a year for content is a pretty far throw away from 'reasonable'.

[Infernixx]

The majority of users don't even use the forums. I think even less people would use the PTS, and even know of these prices. You can bet that alot more unsatisfied users will be here complaining when they see the price of storage.

 

Complaining does not equate into 'not using.' People complain every day about the price of gas and then fill up the tank even as they're complaining.

 

The price of food, rent, electricity, cars, houses. People 'complain.' That's just what they do.

 

You want to know how we'll know if people aren't buying LS? If they drop the price nearly immediately after going live or before going live, and/or put the unlocks up on sale on the CM regularly. If that happens, then it's likely that they misjudged the market and overpriced.

 

On the other hand, if the price doesn't change then I'm going to guess that they're getting enough sales to leave the price where it is.

[DarthTHC]

What is reasonable, in my eyes, is the expectation that every type of guild had the possibility to access guild ships within reasonable amounts of time and effort. If that price tag remains, this expectation falls short.

 

Asking casual gamers in small guilds to either set away a month of their play time allotment or wait a year for content is a pretty far throw away from 'reasonable'.

 

This is good! What, in your mind, is:

 

1) A reasonable number of active players in a guild to pursue a flagship?

 

2) A reasonable weekly commitment, per active member, to pursue the flagship?

 

3) A reasonable duration for the active members to pursue the flagship via a reasonable weekly commitment before obtaining it?

[Khevar]

So, again, why are you fighting against this?

A valid question. It has to do with my view of the world.

 

I believe that, even in a video game, it is okay for there to be things that are difficult to achieve. That if one works together with others, that collectively you all can do far more than an individual. And that if there are things beyond your reach, it's okay not to have them.

 

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, if there are things beyond one's reach, and one WANTS them, the best reaction is to ask for help, or advice, or assistance. When HM LI was crushing souls, some people complained and asked for a nerf, but others came to the forums and asked for advice. The second option is healthier, imo.

 

I'm trying to convince people that rather than asking for a "nerf" on the price, they could instead ask for advice on how to achieve the goal.

SWTOR is a single player MMO - to suddenly gate new content behind a 50 million credit barrier, will most certainly prevent plenty of people from ever experiencing it. 50 million is simply outrageous.

You may be right. I hope you're not.

For some people, it effectively is impossible. Not theoretically impossible - no number of credits ever would be - but practically impossible - as in, its never going to happen.

For any player that finds it effectively impossible to make 50 million credits as a guild, what amount are would they think is acceptble?

 

5 million? 10 million? 25 million?

Edited July 29, 2014 by Khevar

[OddballEasyEight]

I'm not at all suggesting 50 million is impossible for some - but it sure as hell is for others. SWTOR is a single player MMO - to suddenly gate new content behind a 50 million credit barrier, will most certainly prevent plenty of people from ever experiencing it. 50 million is simply outrageous.

 

Did you just say that SW:TOR is a single player MMO to argue that a Group feature should be cheaper?

[Vandicus]

For some people, it effectively is impossible. Not theoretically impossible - no number of credits ever would be - but practically impossible - as in, its never going to happen.

 

I've seen calculations of people grinding X credits per day for X days, and thus thinking to prove that 50 million credits is attainable. They completely disregard the fact that for a great number of players, being online for every day of that, grinding out credits for every day of that is, in reality, neither possible nor anywhere near reasonable.

 

What is reasonable, in my eyes, is the expectation that every type of guild had the possibility to access guild ships within reasonable amounts of time and effort. If that price tag remains, this expectation falls short.

 

Asking casual gamers in small guilds to either set away a month of their play time allotment or wait a year for content is a pretty far throw away from 'reasonable'.

 

I'm sure you've seen it before, but what about the suggestion that people use their resource gathering crew skills while playing their normal game and selling the proceeds on the GTN?

 

Even if prices were to crash, at half of normal prices you'd see a person make about 250k/day(very conservatively speaking).

 

That's 50 million in 200 days, by one person. For four people, that's 50 million in around 2 months. Its been well over 2 months since the feature was announced, and 2 months is a mere content cycle in TOR. Some effort is required, not a massively exhausting effort.

 

Granted, price point could very hugely within a large range before I'd figure it as too expensive or too cheap. It seems that a lot of people could use serious help figuring out how to earn or save in the game(which'll help them on far more than just guild flagships) though.

[Darkheyr]

You are still asking the wrong questions, DarkTHC.

 

Credit grind is not a reasonable expectation to begin with. I'd be happy if they turned Strongholds into a more interesting progression system in the first place, and where 'guild content' doesn't have an entry price tag. Sadly, Bioware failed completely at that idea.

[Vandicus]

You are still asking the wrong questions, DarkTHC.

 

Credit grind is not a reasonable expectation to begin with. I'd be happy if they turned Strongholds into a more interesting progression system in the first place, and where 'guild content' doesn't have an entry price tag. Sadly, Bioware failed completely at that idea.

 

While PvP commendations and PvE commendations have both been suggested as valid alternatives, what else can an RP guild easily acquire(and yes, I did say easily) aside from credits?

[DarthTHC]

You are still asking the wrong questions, DarkTHC.

 

Credit grind is not a reasonable expectation to begin with. I'd be happy if they turned Strongholds into a more interesting progression system in the first place, and where 'guild content' doesn't have an entry price tag. Sadly, Bioware failed completely at that idea.

 

No, I'm not asking the wrong questions. You're just refusing to answer them because... well, I have my assumptions but I'll leave it to you to tell me why you won't answer them.

 

My questions say NOTHING about a credit grind. They simply ask about how much individual effort you think each active guild member should reasonably undertake to obtain the guild ship. The specific tasks are unspecified.

 

You do think that something as wondrous as a guild flagship should be earned, rather than simply handed out to any dork who can convince 3 people to group with him for 3 minutes, right?

Edited July 29, 2014 by DarthTHC

[TUXs]

Did you just say that SW:TOR is a single player MMO to argue that a Group feature should be cheaper?

Not exactly.

 

My point was that SWTOR caters to small groups of players, and casual players, by not requiring anything to be done by large groups. To suddenly gate content behind a credit figure that's figuratively impossible at achieve for small groups, is unwise.

[TUXs]

No, I'm not asking the wrong questions. You're just refusing to answer them because... well, I have my assumptions but I'll leave it to you to tell me why you won't answer them.

 

My questions say NOTHING about a credit grind. They simply ask about how much individual effort you think each active guild member should reasonably undertake to obtain the guild ship. The specific tasks are unspecified.

 

You do think that something as wondrous as a guild flagship should be earned, rather than simply handed out to any dork who can convince 3 people to group with him for 3 minutes, right?

Guild goals:

- run 5 Ops

- run 5 FPs

- Compete in 5 WZ's

- use GF 5 times

- Play 5 GSF matches

 

You know...like activities in game.

[AlienEyeTX]

Not exactly.

 

My point was that SWTOR caters to small groups of players, and casual players, by not requiring anything to be done by large groups. To suddenly gate content behind a credit figure that's figuratively impossible at achieve for small groups, is unwise.

 

You are correct. They're going to alienate their core customer. This will drive people away. When the pop drops, that'll make make the spenders leave, too, because they won't have anyone to torment or sell things to.

[Khevar]

Guild goals:

- run 5 Ops

- run 5 FPs

- Compete in 5 WZ's

- use GF 5 times

- Play 5 GSF matches

 

You know...like activities in game.

Not a bad idea.

 

Personally, I had hoped that acquiring a guild flashship would have been done through a lengthy series of quests not dissimilar to HK-51 questline. Every stage would have required groups of guild members (i.e. nothing solo whatsoever).

 

Unfortunately, this would likely have angered those that don't like PvE.

[DarthTHC]

Not exactly.

 

My point was that SWTOR caters to small groups of players, and casual players, by not requiring anything to be done by large groups. To suddenly gate content behind a credit figure that's figuratively impossible at achieve for small groups, is unwise.

 

8 players is the minimum for operations. Based upon my experience with ops and players and schedules and such, that's 10 to 12 active players in the guild to field an ops group once each week. Let's cal lit 11.

 

Let's say that 11 people is willing to put 2 hours of gaming time each week into earning a guild flagship. Let's say they do it the nastiest way possible - running dailies.

 

I've read a lot of threads about how much dailies can get you and 250k per 2 hours seems to stick. May be a bit more, may be a bit less, but let's assume 250k.

 

250,000 credits across a guild of 11 is 2,750,000 per week. It would take that guild of 11 about 18 weeks to obtain a guild flagship at that pace.

 

Now, interestingly enough, guild flagships were announced in mid-March of this year... 19 weeks ago.

 

Had that guild of 11 had the foresight and desire to obtain a guild ship back when they were announced as a certainty, they would now be spending their 2 hours per week on upgrades because they would have the base already covered.

[Tsillah]

It has to do with my view of the world.

 

That by itself is a dangerous premise.

 

I believe that, even in a video game, it is okay for there to be things that are difficult to achieve. That if one works together with others, that collectively you all can do far more than an individual. And that if there are things beyond your reach, it's okay not to have them.

 

Which is fair enough by me as well but it doesn't explain why you fight against people who have a different view. You can have that view and let others have theirs just the same.

 

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, if there are things beyond one's reach, and one WANTS them, the best reaction is to ask for help, or advice, or assistance. When HM LI was crushing souls, some people complained and asked for a nerf, but others game to the forums and asked for advice. The second option is healthier, imo.

 

Your opinion, but not the absolute truth. When you are confronted with a challenge there are different ways of dealing with it. The reason I am against the prices myself is not whether or not I will be able to achieve it but that the prices set (or rather what's entailed to get the credits to afford them) is out of whack with what you actually get for it. So I wanted BW to see that I do not accept them setting prices over the value of the item, even if I value the item. Sadly the imbeciles here automatically assume I want it for free which is not the case. I think 1,2, 5 and 10 million is plenty for what the legacy storage actually does.

 

I'm trying to convince people that rather than asking for a "nerf" on the price, they could instead ask for advice on how to achieve the goal.

 

I don't think you have the right to tell others how to think and live their lives. If asking advice is such an important thing for you then you should understand that advice is the worst vice there is and should only be given when asked.

 

Trying to convince others is even worse and aside from being a lost cause it's you saying that you have the better way and others should follow. That is condescending in my view. That's also exactly why religion and politics are not accepted as topics on these forums. So my suggestion to you is to stop trying to convince others of your ways, because frankly, it's insulting really. There is nothing wrong with you having an opinion on the matter, but I draw the line at people telling me what to do or think.

 

For any player that finds it effectively impossible to make 50 million credits as a guild, what amount are would they think is acceptble?

 

5 million? 10 million? 25 million?

 

That will depend entirely on the person and on WHY they think it's too much. I am sure BW will never be able to please everyone since other people would complain if it were to be free as well.

 

It's about time more people realised there is more than one reason why people disagree with the prices here.

[DarthTHC]

Guild goals:

- run 5 Ops

- run 5 FPs

- Compete in 5 WZ's

- use GF 5 times

- Play 5 GSF matches

 

You know...like activities in game.

 

That didn't answer even one of my questions.

 

Crafting and running daily missions are also activities in the game. At least I think they are. I sure as heck remember logging in before doing those things, and using the SWTOR UI to do them. Could I have imagined that?

Edited July 29, 2014 by DarthTHC